YouSaid · the spoken record

Dan Kang

lines on the record: 38
first: 2025-07-04
most recent: 2025-07-04
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, so I'll just start with I do believe several of these will end up going bankrupt. So I'll start with that. But I think maybe the risk of this is maybe overpriced. There's some great data. Coinbase research put out a great chart and Galaxy, a similar chart of the maturity walls, meaning what time when the debt comes due for the different buckets of these treasury companies. And most of the debt is very far out, several years out in terms of maturity that it would need to be refinanced. So I don't think you're coming to some imminent situation where you're going to have a liquidity crisis in that respect. And the other point is that most of the debt is generally covenant light, which means that for a lot of it, even if you maybe fall below in AV, for some of these, you really might not trigger an event that would force the selling. So I think that those are probably the key considerations that I think maybe should”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, fortunately, no treasury company is facing this situation right now because some may get desperate. And sell their treasury and buyback stock, but I'd probably say that is pretty negative signaling. Some might consider borrowing debt, get a credit line to buy back the stock. But as you know, that makes the company vulnerable to funds that would then try to short it to trigger. The covenants and therefore a death spiral for the stock. And I think that ultimately... It's going to be about communication because at the end of the day, As an equity holder, you're actually long a token, and the ability to acquire more tokens. So you actually have to be bullish on the token. So I think the most important thing to happen is that whatever is held in Treasury is something that actually has usefulness and can go up in value.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's interesting. In our case, we control too much of the much of the votes, and we're not worried about that. But I guess generally speaking, you know, the way I sort of think about activism, it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? That restores you back to 1x MNAV, if you will, in that, you know, the moment anyone gets wind of any sort of activism involvement and the potential for what could occur there. Usually you would expect, at least in theory, for that discount to close. And I think it kind of gets a little bit to this idea of like, well, the natural answer to protecting multiple to NAV is just sell the underlying asset and repurchase shares, right? Because it's the inverse of the accretive dilution dynamic. We think that can kind of actually lead to a death spiral. It's kind of like going backwards on a highway, so you don't want to get involved with that. Makes sense if you have extra cash on hand, but I think the best defensibility you could have in that scenario is just a really”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We just got a couple minutes left here, but I did have one more question. I think overall the concern for the leverage sustainability and interest expense is there's too much concern there. And I think there's not enough around just some of the potential game theory involved if we get to a discount to any of there's been some interesting insights already heard there. Tommy mentioned this idea of consolidation, if that could occur. But I also wonder, you know, obviously these are public companies. We can get into this situation where we see Aven funds or something come into the space where they see these companies that are trading at a discount and perhaps they'll come forth and it'd be a pretty great trade for them to unwind, sell the underlying asset and just take the spread on that effectively. So I'm just curious, one minute here just to ask all three of you quickly, how do you manage the considerations of that if it would lead to the situation where we actually see an unwind of the underlying assets that have been bought?”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Underlying, and you couldn't lever up or take that on, you know, maybe the converts are out of, if the converts are out of the money, you could buy those back and refinance them if they're callable, right? Because they would be cheaper pricing on a lower convert, less dilution. So there's different ways to increase Bitcoin per share. And I think that that's really what we're going to see as the market evolves.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then that's really your multiple, right? And if you come back to what that's going to be, it's really going to be management team dependent, execution, the ability to generate that, and unique strategies like DeFi, Dev Corep has. But what happens if the market loses faith in that? And then they do trade to your question at a discount. Well, it depends on, you know, again, back to capital structure by capital structure. If you're not levered, Sailor said this, like you could issue, you could buy back equity if you don't have too high of a leverage ratio. You could buy back equity and you could issue debt, right? And that would increase your Bitcoin per share. Or let's say the prices went down.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think one example might be helpful for thinking about the fundamental value or justification for the premium. Micro strategy at the beginning of 2024 traded at one and a half times its Bitcoin. But over that time, today, they've doubled the Bitcoin per share, per diluted share. So you actually, even though you bought it at $1.5 times, you've ended up with 30% more Bitcoin than you bought. And by the way, over that time frame, The premium now is maybe 1.9 or something so you had multiple expansion on top of that. So it's just like a company growing their earnings and then having some multiple expansion. And then so what is like the fundamental pricing that you should deserve for something like this? Well, I think it's simple. It's, you know, think about the average BTC yield you think a company can earn per year and then you think about how many years they can have durability on that BTC yield and generating it.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Intrinsic earnings. That's why most hedge funds have gotten those trades wrong. Those companies have turned shareholders into customers. So the reason when someone buys Robin Hood, they're buying VLAD and the millennial element of Robinhood. When someone's buying Palantir, they don't care that it's 200 times earnings because Palantir represents to them the best and most important way to play AI. So I think that the Treasury companies, the ones that have the highest MNAV are the ones that have turned the shareholders into customers. You know that a shareholder really starts to have belief in the team that's doing it or it's the way they communicate. So I think it's going to be Reflecting execution if some trade at a discount or premium.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When you buy bottled water, you're paying a premium for water. I mean, your MNAV on water is like infinity. And Palantir, Tesla, Robinhood Hymns, The Stocks that are really widely owned and trafficked are not trading on”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and I might just add two observations. One is just a practical observation if some of these treasuries trade at NAV or a discounted NAV The company obviously has to realize that they can't be issuing equity. But when there's enough treasury companies out there, I think that the ones that traded a discount get acquired by the ones that are trading at a premium. So I think that there is going to be a consolidation among the Bitcoin treasuries out there where micro strategy may find it cheaper just to roll up everything that's trading at MNAV. The second observation I'd make, and it just builds on what Dan was saying about multiples is keep in mind like.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think there's this view that if you go and you take on a ton of leverage, it suddenly means everyone's gonna blow off, like really bad things are gonna happen. And I think the structure of the leverage actually really matters a lot, which is to say if you go and you take on four-year, five-year debt, something that enables you to survive a market cycle, right? It's unsecured, it's not tied to your assets, you're not going to get margin called, that may actually be a better structure than going and taking short-term debt that is secured in small amounts where you could get margin called and or, you know, potentially be a forced seller of your underlying assets. So, you know, we're going to be very thoughtful at DeFi Dev Corp about our debt issuance and make sure that our debt to equity isn't going to balloon to some insane amount. But really what matters is the underlying structure to make sure that we can survive a bear market, as I like to say and paraphrase.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Treasury gets over time, the less dependent we actually are on the capital markets to keep growing our underlying sole per share. And it's effectively, you know, we've come out and said 100% incremental margin for us, you know, each additional delegation that we get to our validator. I think that's just one element to keep in mind when thinking about whether or not MNAVs can sustain. It's that over the long run, hopefully, we won't entirely be dependent on them. And then to your point on leverage, I guess the thing that I'll say really quickly is”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Free cash flow. And what does that do? That is accretive to the asset side of the balance sheet. Crypto Treasury vehicles are doing the exact same thing. It's just not earnings or free cash flow the way we would traditionally think about it, right? And this is where I think it becomes a little mind-boggling for folks who are like, okay, well, you're saying this multiple to net asset value exists because of future crypto accumulation, but you can only acquire more crypto because of your multiple to net asset value. So it's a circular reference, right? This recursivity is like really tough for people to digest. And I think that's true for Bitcoin treasure vehicles, but this is the beauty of doing this on a proof-of-stake asset like Solana, where that recursivity still exists and we're still going to balance trying to capture the spread the way a lot of these Bitcoin treasure vehicles have. But it is not our sole avenue for continuing to acquire the underlying asset by virtue of the fact that we operate our own validators at DeFi DevCorp. So the larger”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So exactly. So, the way I've been peeling this back, I mean, 185 billion of assets minus liabilities. That's not a fair comparison to what token vehicles are doing. So if you just isolated the net cash, you call it $52 billion of net cash at Meta, 32X the equivalent net asset value. But nobody sits there and looks at Meta and says, you know what, this thing's a Ponzi. We've got to go and short this thing until it gets down to its net asset value. And I mention this dynamic because one of the things that became really apparent to me in balancing this juggling act that you're talking about is that the multiple to net asset value is the way we're thinking about these things today, but hopefully in the future is not the way we're thinking about how these vehicles should be valued. I was listening to a podcast very early on when I was getting up to speed on crypto treasury vehicles, and Richard Byworth phrased this very well. When you buy meta, you're buying future earnings accumulation or future.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. So for starters, something I've actually been really fascinated by, if you had to guess where meta is trading today on net asset value, what would you guess? Put a number”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Out where the capital going into them is still fixed. If that spreads out, what are some of the risks there? Obviously, if you just have one of these companies, it's all well and good. And we've seen that for multiple years now, that's been fine and sustainable. But what happens when you have a bunch of them? And then the third vector I see is when you get into the debt market side of things and issuance there. Things are all rosy when you can issue converts at 0%. But some of these companies, depending on how they can cover those interest expenses, if we get above those 0%, originally Michael Saylor, when he was issuing debt, it was not at 0%. He's managed to get to a point now, but a lot of that is covered by the existing company revenues and cash flows that were underlying that. When you put those three vectors together, I'm curious how all three of you manage that risk associated with it and what are some of the key considerations.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I want to dig into the sustainability of this dynamic and just quantify and discuss some of the risk vectors of the sustainability. And the way I unpack it is through three vectors associated with it. There's the first one, which is obviously the multiple to NAV, which allows them to issue common equity in a cretive way for shareholders. But obviously there's the risk of what would happen if that went to a discount to NAV and how would the fiduciary obligations associated with that come forth. That's the first vector. The second vector is obviously there is a limited, there's a finite amount of capital to chase these deals. Maybe you can make the argument that it's nearly unlimited. But overall, there's X amount of capital to go into these. And it feels like there's almost a limited opportunity for a proliferation of these companies to come forth. And so if you have this widening...”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think it's just you have to really evaluate just like any underwriting process of the company itself, the management team, the business, the operations, the ability to generate that yield, what the capital structure does look like, what the individual risk profiles, and especially the pricing, right? Because it's not about buying good investments. It's about buying investments at a good price. So that's how Marks saying. And I think that that's really the key for thinking about looking at the capital structures of these different businesses.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so where do I think there's opportunities in the capital structure? And I think it's really, it's going to be very dependent on company by company and then instrument by instrument. And maybe just to start with how the capital structures, I've seen them evolve. Typically you fund them with equity first because you need this equity cushion after you have enough equity cushion, which most of them are really kind of don't have debt, many of them. But the ones that do, you know, maybe you have a 20% debt structure in it. And you can lever up as you have more equity cushion. And different instruments with obviously different risk profiles are going to be interesting to own at different times in the market. So, you know, it could be more interesting to own the equity of something that's cheaper, but maybe it's the market's underappreciating how fast they can grow the yield and the diluted share. Or maybe it's better to go higher in the capital structure, or maybe just something very senior if we're in a very tough market and there's a big drawdown, some of the stuff could be impaired, trade at below prices.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of the convert world and the debt world, and that does mean that there's room for more than one issuer. So hopefully like DeFi Dev Court becomes a big player in that market. I do think it's allowing some innovation, like MetaPlanet also kind of changed the rules because they are issuing Moving strike warrants. So now they're actually raising money in an accretive basis because they can only sort of issue these are actually these can be struck only if the stock price is rising. I mean that's unheard of because it's almost like it's transferring the benefit of the volatility to the issuer. Not to the buyer of the actual underlying instrument. And again, this is the reason I think Wall Street is now really keen on producing more of these treasury assets because the buy side actually wants to be trafficking these instruments.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and maybe what I would add is micro strategy, I think for this audience to appreciate has really transformed the convertible market and the fixed income market because micro strategy is not an investment-grade issuer. In fact, I think that there are They may be below junk rated, but their bonds and convertibles were the best performing and most liquid convertibles and dead instruments last year. So that means for a fixed income fund. Desperate for performance when there's almost no opportunity to generate alpha, the ones that were long micro strategy were actually the star performers. So he has now unlocked a market and really is now like the premier”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Proposition will increase over time across that capital structure, being able to dial up and down flavors of volatility because Bitcoin is in secular volatility decline. In 2024, Bitcoin was actually less volatile than half of the MAG-7 stocks. And if you look at this cycle, I think Bitcoin has made all-time highs essentially on record low levels of volatility. You'd expect that to play out as Bitcoin adoption increases and the asset class matures, but it means all those people who wanted to monetize volatility are going to need somewhere to go in the coming years. And our hope at DeFi Death Corp is that we can plug that demand.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I can kick off. So obviously micro strategy provided a pretty good playbook for a lot of others to follow, but they say don't have to go Fix what's not broken, right? But to some extent, with everyone going and competing for the same capital, I do think folks are going to have to come up with some more innovative ways to accumulate the underlying asset. So taking a step back, one of the things that made the micro strategy playbook really interesting for us is really our high volatility and our high trading volume. So Solana is anywhere from call it 50 to 100% more volatile than Bitcoin and if you look at the underlying 30-day realized volatility of DFDV, our stock and annualize it where north of 300% just by virtue of putting all of our treasury into Solana. So what does that do? All of the people who were attracted to micro strategy for monetizing volatility, the convertible ARB guys, the options traders, we feel we can essentially plug that same demand. And I would actually even posit that our value”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, absolutely. So, okay, let's get granular here. I would love to just use this opportunity to explore the mechanics and the different vehicles associated with the capital structure that can be leveraged, because that's what is truly fascinating here, where obviously this all began with just outright equity issuance, assuming that you're trading at a premium to nav. But we've now seen a proliferation, especially into the fixed income world, which has provided a lot of interesting unlocks. We've seen convertible debt issuances, and now we see a lot of other potential form factors as well, which has been interesting. So I would love to just open this up and get a bit more free-flowing here and just understanding and unpacking what are the right consideration key risks associated with these different parts of the capital structure, where do you see unique appetite for something like unlocking the debt markets, for example, the convertible? That's a whole different buyer class than somebody who's buying the common equity. So we'd just love to hear what's the right way.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So you have depositors on lower risk and you lend out longer risk and you collect a spread and you have a net interest margin. In some ways it's kind of similar to micro strategy, right? They have people who are higher in the cap stack who want less BTC volatility. They'll give up some dilution for that. BTC yield, and then they'll capture that spread in the longer duration asset. And just like maybe JP Morgan trades a two times book value with an 11% net interest margin or whatever it may be micro strategy can trade it too with a 75% net interest margin. And I think when the market kind of realized that there's some durability to this and how much durability for each project is going to depend, I think that that's what sparked the meta in Bitcoin. And then obviously the regulatory environment changing was really the key for the broadening of this that we've seen. But I believe that that's really been key.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I would agree with everything that Dan and Tom have said, and just to echo on a couple points that I heard. You know, I think what really made the meta kick off is because micro strategy actually started it, but it was really not that widely adopted until he really proved the strategy. People thought after the ETFs that the premium would collapse, there's a lot of people that were short to trade. The market has finally figured out and come to embrace is just that the ability to grow per share diluted share of your native asset Bitcoin or Solana in a sustainable way, and that's created the reason for people that want to copy this. And I'm going to maybe talk, Tom had a great analogy on oil. I'm going to maybe provide another analogy that I think is maybe similar to I view these as shadow banks, you know, crypto shadow banks in a way, because I believe what does a bank, like JP Morgan, do? They take risk and they transfer risk and they capture a spread on that.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just keep in mind $141 trillion could have a huge appetite for equitized tokens. And I think investors like to have beta, you know, they by nature Like zero dated options. I think treasury vehicles are viewed as really a beta option on inequity, especially if they're starting to have options. And maybe the best example is even places like Korea, where you can't really buy a crypto ETF, but biopharma is now the first Bitcoin ETF in that country. And I think it'll be just like MetaPlanet, have enormous speculative interest.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and again, I just want to add to the comments because I think all the points are really good points. I do think it's a bit of an experimentation. And it's just my opinion, but I do think that treasury vehicles are probably more attractive over time than ETFs for what Ray just pointed out. But the reason I think there's an experimentation is that we know that the crypto world, which is let's say it's a $3 trillion asset class, is tokenizing equities. So they're trying to turn NVIDIA into a token wrapped in something. And I think the traditional financial world with their trading desks and of course, you know, 141 trillion of US dollar holdings just in America want to tokenize, sorry, want to equitize crypto. So I think that you have kind of a cross-polinization.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And probably at a faster pace than they could on their own. So if you're a retail user and you go and you buy, let's say, on Coinbase, you're obviously paying a fee, you don't necessarily have access to enhanced exposure unless you were to go and take out an insane amount of leverage, which comes with its own risks. Then, of course, there's, in our case, the staking component that gets thrown on top of it. So there are multiple ways that I think these vehicles can help their shareholders accumulate more of the underlying asset on a per share basis over time. And as we've stated, our goal is to grow sole per share to infinity. Or is I like to say just as much as the market will allow us.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I would say, look, regulatory is certainly catalyzed all of this, but I think a lot of what you're seeing really is a structural response, not so much to access, but really to speed of accumulation. So there's certainly a batch of institutions, for example, in our case who are looking for a way to get Solana exposure and DeFi Dev Corp represents a very familiar way that they can get that exposure. But obviously with the advent of ETFs and everything, exposure isn't the only answer for why these vehicles are taking off. So going back to speed of accumulation, one of the things that I think that Tom just alluded to is this idea that if you peel back all the different layers of the multiple to net asset value, this premium that exists really has to do with people speculating on a company acquiring more of the underlying crypto assets.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To closer to maybe the bottom, but we didn't want to necessarily take on the full volatility. So ability to go to a different instrument like in the senior converts that were maybe in the money and they give us different risk and reward profiles where you can get credit-like downside, but Bitcoin like upside. And that traded well. And then we had the ability to go out into the equity of micro strategy. And then this just exists across these cap stacks of these companies to get different liquid investment opportunities across different currency and we talk about Solana, Ethereum, others. And then obviously we think it's interesting opportunities in the primary market. I was previously head of research at Grayscale and there's a lot of similarities and differences to some of the prior trades that have run in the past with some of those products. And we can talk about a lot of that, I'm sure, on this panel.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I'm David Greiter. I'm a partner at Finality Capital, and Finality has a venture fund, and then I run our hedge fund. And as an active fund manager in the liquid space, you know, what's interesting to me about the treasury acquisition vehicle meta is that it gives me a lot of new toolkits, a lot of new tools in my toolkit that I can use to invest. And to give you some examples of that, we've owned different things across the cap stack of several of these companies. For example, in January, we wanted to take off a lot of risk. We took about 75% cash because we thought the market was rough. But we didn't want to sit in that risk. So in February, we went out and we bought some of the micro strategy stark preferred. And those were paying us 9%. And then we thought, you know, rates could do well. So we got paid to own it, traded up on us because the people were pricing more cuts. Then we had the ability to then go manage risk differently when we got to April and go down.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Reserves because investors expect them to accumulate additional reserves. ExxonMobil was the largest stock in the S&P 500 for 25 years from 1990 to 2015, top five never drop below top five. It was never valued on earnings. It was always a price premium to its proven reserves. Micro strategy probably will become the biggest stock in the US as a listed company and it doesn't make earnings. It's valued purely on its price to Bitcoin reserve.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Our UAE want to get a million Bitcoin, they're not going to go in the open market. They're going to end up buying treasury holders like MicroStrategy and it's easier for them to pay a two times premium for that rather than run Bitcoin up to a million dollars. And then I just realized that Treasury strategies are really important to crypto for a lot of reasons. One is that in a staking world like Ethereum crypto treasuries are actually probably a precursor to what J.P. Morgan and the Goldmans will do because eventually they're going to own crypto on their balance sheet. And as they issue stablecoins, they're going to actually want to stake Ethereum and Solana. And it's creating an asset class. I think it's not too dissimilar to how oil companies historically trade on a premium to their proven.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm just going to make comments to add with Dan said because, of course, I agree with all the general ideas. I really started to look closely at crypto treasury because of micro strategy and Michael Saylor. And for us at FundStrat, we've been advocates of Bitcoin for over eight years now. But when microstrategy announced its Treasury strategy, it was really eye-opening to see it traded a premium to their Bitcoin holdings. And that was like something that was very hard for our clients to reconcile. We ended up, of course, being pretty bullish on it. And it is part of our granny shots ETF. But it told me two things. One, now that micro strategy has 600,000 Bitcoin, it is so big that I think it has a sovereign put. It is if the United States or Qatar or”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm reminded that I think everyone says crypto is a way to upgrade the financial system and I would take a more radical view which is to say that I think crypto is here to overhaul the financial system. So when I think about the idea of a crypto treasury vehicle and what it represents, which is the ability to accumulate crypto even faster than you could on your own and escape the confines of a broken system, that's why I joined Joseph and Parker at DeFi Dev Corp.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Would say my interest in crypto treasury vehicles more broadly probably started taking a step back. I was a math major, so I got very into crypto back in the day because it was the call it fusion between academic and professional interests. But during my time at Kraken, I would say become became much more ideologically aligned with what crypto represents. So taking a step back, I used to give the strategy onboarding talk to a bunch of Krakenites in their first week. And one of the graphs I would show is the top 10 global central banks balance sheets from 2006 to 2024. And if you looked at that graph, the total assets on those balance sheets went from, call it $6 trillion to $30 trillion today, and only 15% of that was in response to the great financial crisis. So that means 85% of that has happened, call it over the last 15-some odd years. And every time I looked at that,”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, thanks for having us. So I'm Dan Kang, DK. I lead investor relations for DeFi DevCorp. We were the very first US listed company to announce a Solana treasury strategy. Today we are the largest Solana treasury vehicle by ordinary and fully diluted market cap. group of all former Kraken directors and executives as well. So I'd like to say we're very deeply crypto native. It's not our first rodeo in crypto.”
2025-07-04 · Forward Guidance · Unpacking The Crypto Treasury Meta · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT