YouSaid · the spoken record

David Gergen

lines on the record: 81
first: 2020-02-06
most recent: 2020-02-06
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“It is. I'm hopeful. I'm very hopeful. I'm most hopeful. You and I have something very, very much in common. We're now both working with the younger generation. Yes. And I find a lot of hope in the quality of the young people we're working around”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All these books that are coming out that make the place sound like a mafia operation inside. And I knew what that was like from the Nixon days. And it's extremely unhealthy and very unhelpful for the country. I think our democracy is under great pressure right now. Democracies around the world are under pressure. And we need to be very, very aware that unless we pull ourselves together, we could go...”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. And he's tough. Those qualities in and of themselves can be quite positive in the service of the presidency. But he has no moral core. I think it's really important that you have a moral compass in the Oval Office and in most other leadership positions because that is what gives direction and helps people to figure out what's to put a preference on right versus wrong and do the hard right versus the easy wrong. And I think a man without a compass is a man who's sort of lost in terms of what is dangerous. So you don't know where he's going to go. We don't know.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Been selling all his life, but he understands somehow he gets it, the anxieties in places like Wisconsin or Michigan and these Midwestern states. Who would have thought he would have done that So he's very strong. One of the things Democrats have to do is somebody come up with somebody as tough as he is because he'll just wipe you out. I mean, that's one of the questions that Buttij on the surface, people are going to say, you know, Trump could eat him for breakfast.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“His strength is sort of the elephant in the conversation. I think he's remarkably strong at marketing and he's much better than I would have expected at reading the national mood and understanding. As you know in journalism, one of the things you try to do is sort of figure out, okay, here's what is being said publicly. What's the real conversation? What's going on around dinner table? So what are people talking about? What are their concerns And he could pick up on that. He understood the anxiety. He's been”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A very good question. Look, I think it's really important that you have a toolbox of skills, that you're able to persuade people, that you know how to run a good team, that you've got some strategy or vision of what you're trying to go and you've got a strategy to get there. I think there's just a variety of things we look to that are sort of fairly standard in any organization. But the single most important over time is the quality and character of the leader. You set the standards, you set the tone for the organization. And if people are working for you see you cut corners and essentially line your way through it, they'll start doing the same thing. Whereas, say in the case of a Jerry Ford, we knew he was honest and people were very honest around him.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We were the operation. We were seen as part of the pragmatic, moderate wing of things. I thought the secret success of Reagan at the staff level was that he did have a chief of staff who was moderate, very pragmatic, and very hardheaded about how to get things done. But he also had people from California. He just didn't bring in his California mafia. He brought them in, but he brought in also. Baker recruited me and others who knew their way around Washington, knew how to get things done.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And He asked me to look, you had experience in the press. I want you to be able to talk to people privately. We've got our press office, but I want you to be the person, you and I work it out, and he would periodically meet with members of the press. I would periodically meet with members of the press. But there are others around who are the more conservative folks around Reagan who thought we were being disloyal. Because”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think a lot depends on what your understandings are within the organization and especially your relationship to the president and the relationship with the chief of staff. You've got to have some sort of transparency of I got the reputation for being a leaker in the Reagan years.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. So when I first got there, and people realized he was in trouble, they didn't like me being there, but they didn't say very much about it. And then gradually his self-confidence returned, and he got out of the ditch. And once he was upright and moving, then the attacks came. You know, the sharks came after me and there were news stories in the newspaper not to be trusted. You know, he's a leaker. He's this, he's that. And that is a persistent.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Over healthcare. Yes, and I was there for some of that. So the question was how to get him back on his feet. And what do you know better than I do is as an advisor, a political advisor especially, you can't change people. What you can do is maybe bring out the best of them.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, if I'd been in their shoes, I would have been angry about my coming in. And so I understood that. I thought I would get more protection, frankly, from the Oval Office than I did. When I first came in, he lost his self-confidence. He was stumbling a lot. I knew he was a much better political figure than he was.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, listen, I was actually sympathetic with people who had worked really hard in the Clinton campaign, Carvilla and Stefanopoulos and other people like that. They'd worked really, really hard and they had followings in the White House. And they'd worked hard as hell to get the Republicans out of the White House. And six months into a Clinton presidency here, the president is calling on somebody to work for those Republicans to come and help fix things. And they probably viewed you.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was long shot, and he thought Cuomo was going to be the nominee, and that Democrats would have nominated three liberals in a row, gone down three times in a row, and that would open the door to a southerner in a middle of the road or moderate kind of guy to win the presidency. And at any event, He had Crackson's character that he hadn't really resolved. I think he's in a much better place today as a human being. But at that time it was just a little bit rambunctious and he was very, very bright. It was only us that didn't quite work. You yourself probably.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and in some ways he would have been better off waiting for more years to run. But he didn't expect to be president when he ran in 92. He was a long.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, I never did. Bill Clinton, it goes back to this character question that's so central, I think, to the presidency. And David McCullough, in his biography of Truman, wrote that character is the single most important quality needed in a president. Bill Clinton was, you know, he had a marriage that hadn't settled down. He had a private life that hadn't settled down. Manifest.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He was just a very, very curious man. He was one of these people, I mean, this literally could be true. He could be engaged in two separate conferences in parallel at the same time. I was frequently in the Oval Office in a conversation with four or five people with him, very small, and we'd be talking about some issue. And he would say he'd be very engaged in a conversation. And then while we were talking, he got out of his New York Times crossword puzzle and continued to fill it in. And, you know, you get about three minutes into the conversation about some storm in Florida. And he'd say, who is that character in the second act of AIDA? At first, I was... I wasn't just surprised. I was a little insulted that I was saying something so golden that he was figuring out the crossword puzzle at the same time.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I thought Bill Clinton was the smartest guy we've had in the presidency, with the possible exception of Barack in terms of contemporary presidency. I first met him when he was reading a book on Japanese work circles and things of that sort way back in the 80s.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So they called you in. They called me smart guy. They were a little kinder than that, but that was the general. That was the essence. That was the essence. Yeah, that was the essence. And tell me about me.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First, I thought he was off to a bad start. He was floundering in his early months. It's hard to come to the White House from a background as limited from a small state with the press cord number. He fled side to the fresh.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'd gotten to know Bill Clinton because he was from the South, from Arkansas, and we went to something called a Renaissance Group early on. And he also came to our magazine periodically. So we became friends. You were critical of it.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely, Han. I think that's one of the things that the Democrats have to figure out in this campaign. Are they going to return fire for fire or are they going to try to be gentlemen as they go through the campaign and there's that old saying you can't bring a chocolate declare to a knife fight? And it's going to be a hard question for Democrats, I think, in terms of how they run this campaign. I think that's one of the attractions of Bloomberg. I think it'll be a very, very hard hitting, but it'll do it in a clever way.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's not an accident that a Ry Cohn has had as much influence on our current incumbent as he has. And I think it's been a malignant influence.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's a really good question. I think he would have used the hell out of Fox News. I mean, Roger Ailes worked for him way back when. He was one of his top people. And in that 68 campaign you were talking about, Roger Ailes was at the center of that and sort of the merchandising of Richard Nixon. So I do think he would have taken every opportunity to go around. Nixon didn't know the boundaries. I mean, he didn't obey the boundaries. Well, since he...”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In contrast to what we're doing now, here is a conservative president who believes that the press ought to be treated and respected, and we ought to respect their First Amendment rights and take a more professional attitude toward them. And I think that Reagan got better press because he was more professional and he sort of, you know, Jim Baker was our chief of staff. He met her every week with the magazines, the three news magazines. He met regularly with the New York Times. He wanted me to meet with people. We were more open.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He was the most natural performer that we've had in the White House. And at least in my experience. He was not the brightest of our presidents. He really liked things reduced to one page and that sort of thing. A huge difference between, say, a Reagan versus Obama in terms of temperament and personality and who they are. But I did think he captured Americana. He understood the Gaulle, Charles de Gaulle died in France. It was said of him, he was not great because he was in France. He was great because France was in him. And I thought that was a characterized Nixon as well. Sort of America was in him. He understood and he could speak too. I was not as conservative as he was, and we came to differences on issues like abortion, but also some other civil rights issues and things like that. I thought he was a very effective leader.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ability to continue He did. It turned out it was a gutsy call. And a few years ago, the John F. Kennedy Library gave him Jerry Ford posthumously its medal for profiling courage, for pardoning Ford. And it cost him the White House.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was the end of the long National Nightmar, as Ford said in the speech. Fortunately, one of the dishonest men I've met, and I think we were really fortunate to have him step in.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was aware we're going through a very tense time, and Woodward and I used to talk about we were really worried, David, about the pillars of the Republic crumbling. We weren't sure whether we're going to get through this and whether, you know, how much of a national security problem we had on our hands. We wanted to think the best, but there were increasing signs of the worst. We didn't know for sure until the tapes came out. At that point, you couldn't leave at that point. It was like rats leaving a sinking ship.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The president himself was erratic. I spent more time with him in those last months, and he was drinking a lot. I didn't think the country was in danger from that, but I did become aware that the Secretary of Defense went and told the military, if you get an order from the White House to fire a missile or to unload a bomb, don't do anything until you personally clear it with me We don't know what kind of orders are going to come out of the White House. Who knew? And whether the president might go a little crazy. So in that sense, it was like a tense time.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Going through the White House was like being in the Marine Corps, a lot of incoming and you formed very close relationships with people who are by your side. You didn't know quite who was honest and who wasn't. John Dean worked two doors down the hall for me and I had no idea until I read his book that it was like a muffy operation in there. So there were a lot of shocks.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“For Woodward? That's a good question. The deal was he called me because when they had a big story about to pop, they wanted to get a White House reaction. And nobody would answer the phone when they called. And he called me as a friend and said, can you help me get access? And I went to Bron Ziggler, who was press secretary, and Len Garman, who was a major advisor, and said, this is Woodward's calling me, here's what he wants, what should we do? What should I do? And they said, bring him in a back door, which I did. And that began a relationship in which the president was told Gergan is going to be lying to Woodward from time to time. Just want you to know about it. He actually signed off on it. So in that sense, I was, but I wasn't a turncoat source. I wasn't somebody trying to bring him down. I was trying to really bring perspective.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Late in the game. The cover up, which was elaborate, worked better inside the White House with the staff than it worked almost anywhere else because we came to work every day. I'd never known anybody went to jail. And I came to work every day and hauled him and Ehrlichman would be saying it's just the liberal press are trying to Krahams, Katie Graham, as they call her, trying to take us down. This is all bullshit. And I'd gone to school with Bob Woodward. We were two or three classes apart. But we had a back channel that was sort of a recognized back channel. And it turned out that Woodward was telling me the truth, and my bosses were lying. And I didn't know that until pretty late in the game.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wrote the defense groups that wrote white papers around how money had been spent at San Clemente Hanley's house for the Secret Service, but Nixon was accused of embellishing his own house. I wrote one about his taxations and so forth. So”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was supposed to be a choreographer with all the speeches and everything like that. And I'll tell you a little story about that. So I was trying to figure out everybody knew what the outcome was going to be. So it was a pretty boring story in some way. And we were looking for ways to put some pep into it and make it more interesting and more fun. So I called Bob Hope's team and said, can we hire a couple of comedy writers to come to the Republican convention, which they allowed us to do? I brought them to Miami. We put them in a hotel room watching the convention, and they had an open line to our trailer. And they would be watching, they would come up with funny lines, and they would call the trailer. And then I would go run and take these funny lines to the next speaker. They handle the material. Well, I remember the first time I ever met Ronald Reagan was he was just about to give a big speech. And I said, I said, I'm from the White House. He said, yeah, you work for Linden. White House get away from me, Don.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, by the time I became, I became head of the speech writing team after just after the election of 72 as my first election, I'd never been to a political convention before, and we were in Miami for that convention of 72, and I was asked to be in charge of the script.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So at that time, it was mostly about speech writing, and I wasn't sort of in the strategic communications planning side of it. I was just a young kid But, you know, you learned, you sort of began to understand what the Nixon message was. And then the speech writing team was sort of like an orchestra. At one point, you'd want to play some Pat Buchanan because he was so pungently conservative and combative. At other times, Bill Sapphire was sort of very sophisticated or Ray Price had a lot of grace notes. You'd know, you'd ask him, will you write this peach or write that part of it?”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There were two conditions Band had. One was that he could have an office with a couch, and the second was that during lunchtime breaks he could be essentially lying on the couch watching the soap operas. And nobody would bother him about that. I said, Ben, why the hell do you want to watch the soap operas? He said, because that's where true Americans are. And if we want to communicate with Americans, we've got to know what's on the soaps. And he eventually went out to Hollywood to represent the conservative view to...”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was hired by the chief of the speechwriters who was looking for an assistant. He had no idea how disorganized I was. But he hired me. He offered me a job. I told him I had voted for Gilbert Humphrey in 68, not for Nixon. And I wasn't at all sure that he would want to hire anybody. But he had gone to Yale and I'd gone to Yale and we struck up a relationship. And he said, why don't you come in for a year and work for Nixon? Which I did. And one year turned into three and a half years because my boss, who was head of the speech writing, sort of became an independent counselor to the president, and I moved up to run the speech writing shop. It was about 50 people actually between speechwriting.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Navigate around it under the over them however you wanted to do it. And Nixon was the one who sort of brought Wall Street. I mean, Madison Avenue about the advertising community and Madison Avenue to bear And got some pretty feisty writers like Pat Buchanan was one of the speech writers then. You were in that speech writer.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Joe McGuinness. Of Nixon's When Nixon came in, there are the early divisions between the Republican Party and the press. You could see those divisions starting with in 1964 when Goldwater was the nominee, and the delegates were shouting at the press. And 68 in Chicago with the mayors there, there was a lot of anger at the press, as you may remember. So when Nixon came in, there was a belief that control of national conversation was coming out of the networks in New York with the producers there being the gatekeepers on what was said to the American people and what was not said and people on the Republican Party thought that the whole coverage was skewed against them. And so they were trying to fight back and they wanted to invent ways to get the message out. And Nixon was one of the ones.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All guys at that point. And they were all young men who, you know, some of them had graduated from high school, a lot hadn't. But suddenly I had to deal with their issues of their drinking and the women who came through the process and whenever you had a beach whether they were paying their taxes or not, it was eye-opening experience to spend time. Being a mentor worried about being a protector, but also being a leader of these 50 guys and who really brought me back down to earth about the way the world really works. And to get beyond that elite, the elitism. So that was really, really helpful for me.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, and that's one of Yeah, I thought it was very serving in the Navy was a much more satisfying experience than I expected. And in particular, I felt like I'd gone to Eastern Elite Schools. I went to Yale as an undergraduate, and then I went on to the Harvard Law School. So you come out of sort of the Ivory Tower and you have a lot of privilege and you don't know a lot. You don't know a lot and you don't realize how much of a life of privilege you've gotten into. I didn't start with privilege, but by the time I finished law school, I was certainly privileged. And what the Navy did was they gave me responsibility for 50 enlisted guys”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I applied. I don't know about you, but I was drawn to how can I be engaged with the big issues of my generation, whatever they may be. I'd like to be part of that because that's where progress and excitement. And you can see things possibly happen. And so I applied for to get off the ship, to go to Vietnam, right for the stars and stripes, building on journalistic background. So my captain vetoed it. Wouldn't let me off the ship But eventually I came back to serve a year in uniform to reform the draft. Another long story. But the draft at that point was a hugely controversial about whether it was being conducted fairly.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Law degree. I did. Well, the war was on. The Vietnam War was on. And I'm from the South. And there's a long tradition in the south that if there's a war, you go. And so I face the draft was coming. I knew the draft wasn't likely to be there. And I didn't want to go and be in the upriver jungles of Vietnam and just be sort of cannon fodder in effect. So I applied for the Navy and got into the Navy and went to Officer Kennedy School. And I wound up, I asked for service. In Asia and said one thing I didn't want to do was be an engineer. And of course they gave me an engineering billet in Asia. So I was on a ship homeported in Japan but we went to other places including Vietnam.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it was one of those days when you stood up, but you stood up or you didn't You know, you had to know which side of the line you were on. And one of my greatest disappointments is I thought by the time we left this Good Earth we would have solved this racial problem and we haven't. We haven't really.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so tensions were high. And Terry Sanford was very worried about violence breaking out in North Carolina. And he formed something called the North Carolina Good Neighbor Councils. And they were biracial councils in each city of leading African Americans and leading whites to try to work on education and jobs, but also keep peace in their communities. And I worked, I had three summers working on that for a man named David Coulcher. And I have to tell you, David, I had many fine experiences on the national scene in the White House, but the days working for Terry Sanford in North Carolina were the most satisfying of all my public life. Well, that was such a vibe.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, in the summers, it was a Democrat. He was RJ Kennedy. He was the individual who was a major force in persuading a lot of us who grew up in North Carolina to get into public life. He had a terrific following. And he was friend through life. But in any event, I went to work for him and as an intern, and at that time, this 1963, as you remember, the civil rights movement was full bloom, but we also had the murders with those three kids in Mississippi.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That was a competition. The private school boys versus the public high school guys. I was the candidate for the public high school guys, and we lost the guys who came from prep schools, they knew how to win the system in those days.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The Darrow Morning Herald and the Durham Sun. And I eventually turned to hard news. I did obituaries for a while. But, you know, you had your journalistic. I am, yeah, background. And mine was, I had sort of a full-time job working for local newspapers when I was around 15.”
2020-02-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 366 — David Gergen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source