YouSaid · the spoken record

Diana Walsh Pasulka

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2020-12-28
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2020-12-28
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  1. “So, Maria is, she's actually in the history of our country in that she first wrote a causemography of what she said was the spinning earth. And this was in the 1600s. And that's her first book. And she wrote that. And then she said that she was transported on the wings of angels to the New World. And she said that she met a culture of people and she basically told them about the faith of Catholicism. And then what happened was that the people that, and she described the fauna, she described the people and everything like that. And so there were actually missionaries there. And when they went to try to convert some of the people who already lived there, apparently they already knew a bunch of stuff.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “He was awesome. Yeah. So we got to stay there. They have a scholars' quarters. And so they had two. And so Tyler stayed in one, and I stayed in the other. And Brother Guy probably shouldn't have been so nice to me and given me the keys because when I got home, we were there for two weeks. When I got home, I got this frantic phone call from him and he basically said, Diana, he goes, do you remember where you put the original Kepler? And so I had this Kepler, right? And so I misplaced it. Luckily, I remembered where it went. I was like, oh gosh, thank goodness I found it. But he'll probably change the rules of the Vatican Observatory after my visit.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “People get levitated out of their beds and things like that. So we were sent there by a billionaire who was interested in levitation and by location. And since I could get in to the Vatican and I knew the director of the Vatican Observatory, both Tyler and I were able to go to the secret archives and look at the canonization records and then go to Castle Gandolfo, which is about an hour from the Vatican where the first observatory, the Space Observatory of the Vatican is. The second one is in Arizona and has a much larger telescope. So we went and we and Brother Guy gave me the keys to the archive. I said, look at anything you want. I got to see a lot of stuff by Carl Sagan, by the way. I know you talked about, yeah, it was awesome. See, they have a whole section on extraterrestrial, the search for extraterrestrial life. And they don't, by the way.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “Right. I agree with you. This is the field of religious studies. And again, I don't say it's true in my book. I just say it's a very strange coincidence that I'm at the Vatican Observatory. In fact, I'd finished my book, but while I was at the Vatican Observatory, I was there with Tyler and we were looking at the records. They're called the trial records, but the canonization records of these two saints, each was said to have done amazing things. One was Joseph of Cupertino who levitated, okay? is said to have levitated. The other was Maria of Agrida from Spain. They're contemporaries in the 1600s, who was said to have been able to buy locate, which is to be in two places at once. So this is a belief in Catholicism that certain very holy people can do these kinds of things, like levitate, which, by the way, is also associated with UFO.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “But in the imaginations of Americans, Roswell is that place. But I went to a different place. And apparently there are several places in New Mexico. Now, strangely enough, I travel back to New Mexico at the very end chapter of my book, but I don't go there physically. I go there through the story of a Catholic nun who actually believes that she bilocated to New Mexico in the gosh in the 1600s. So yeah, it was very strange. And I was at the Vatican at the Space Observatory when I made that connection that she probably went to the very, well, she believed she went to this very place that I had gone.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “Folded into the mythology of this new religion is what I call a new type of religion of the UFO. And it becomes ground zero for this new mythology. Just like Mecca is the place where Muslims go. They have to go, right, at least once in their lives. It's a pilgrimage place now. So in my book, that's how I tell it. Now, what about Roswell in the public imagination? Obviously, according to Annie Jacobson, who's good, you know, she's a great author, investigative journalist. She's written about Roswell too. I don't agree with all of what she comes up with, but part of it is that there's a lot of military stuff going on there that is classified. And there's a reason why you can't get in. And nor would you want to, right? So there's a lot of experimentation going on there. I don't believe that it has to do with ET's friend.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “Right. Yeah. So it's weird. Okay. So there's this, okay. So in religious studies, like I said, we call it a hierophany, which is the meeting of a non-human intelligent thing, whatever it is, an angel, a god, whatever a goddess with or an alien, with humans. And that's the place. Okay. So the place is New Mexico. So New Mexico”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “We went to one of them according to Tyler. At the time, I was completely an atheist with regard to anything that had to do with UFOs. So we were out there. We had specially configured metal detectors for these metals. And we did find these, okay? And they've since been studied by various scientists, material scientists, so forth. And I believe Jacques talked about not those particular ones, but others on the Joe Rogan show. They're anomalies. So scientists don't, I'm not a scientist. So I can't weigh in on whether I just, I just believe the people, these people I believe because they're well-known scientists.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “You have to go alone. He goes, it's a place that is on government owned property and it's a no-fly zone. And when you go, you'll be blindfolded. And I said, I definitely need to bring a friend. So he said, well, who do you want to bring? I just had met this university scientist who's very well known and I call him James in my book. And I asked a feeling James would definitely want to do this. And I asked James and he said, I'll go tomorrow, okay? So I suggested this to Tyler and Tyler say, absolutely not, you know. And I thought, I know he's going to look up James and he's going to say yes. Because if anybody can figure out what this material is that you're going to go look for, it's going to be James. He has the instruments. And so Tyler did, in fact, look him up and finally said, okay, I got you can go. So we both had.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “And they go to there's a festival there as well, like a religious festival. You could get little kitschy stuff like you can get at a religious festival there. So it's very much like a place of pilgrimage where a hierophany occurred and a hierophany is basically contact with non-human intelligence. So non-human intelligence is thought to have contacted humans or crashed at this place in Roswell, New Mexico. Now what's fascinating is that I begin my book by going out to a crash site in New Mexico. I have to get blindfolded with my, well, to tell you the truth, the story is that I'm with Tyler, who's an invisible, and he wants to show me a place in New Mexico where a crash happened. And he says that he thinks that I need to see physical evidence because I don't believe. And so I said, I'll go, but I'm going to bring a friend of mine.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “That's with us today. All right. So, where do I get started? Well, I mean, it is a mythology here, right? The mythology of Roswell, it's very religious like in the sense that there's a pilgrimage to Roswell people make.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “And you know, probably good financial. I mean, they may have good reasons for this too. Like, okay, let's take the study of UFOs. Okay. Maybe many people in government that decide who dole out the money, let's put it that way, they think UFOs aren't real. So they're not going to give these programs money. So how do these programs make money? They're going to have to find a way to do it. So maybe that's how they do it. Okay.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Now, I agree with you. I'm upset about money too. I think there should be universal healthcare, a universal income. You know, I don't think people should be in poverty, especially because we are so wealthy as a species, frankly. Okay, that said, think about this. If you don't have money, you can't have a life of the mind either, right?”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “Lex, I can agree with you on that, but can I push back on two things? Okay. Let's do it. All right. The first one is that I was happy to receive money from the book because of the New York Times article. That's absolutely false. So I published my book with Oxford, which is an academic press. And you don't get paid with an academic press. Okay. So money was not it for me. What it was was recognition that my research Was being validated. So, you know, because then people called me and said, whoa, maybe it's more than interesting. Okay. And they did. Okay. The other thing about money is just as you say that.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “You're reading it. So we've got better footage than this, and this is not good footage at all. Therefore, they believe that it was authentic footage that had been doctored up. Now, why? I don't know why. So I honestly don't know if it's accurate or not. I mean, I believe the people, absolutely, but was this something out there to fool these people? Perhaps I don't know. Is it spun? The people who I know who are part of the UFO Fight Club believed it was real. Okay, and said, this is badly done, but real.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “Those videos have been out for a while actually much, I think, in the mid 2000s. They were out. But what you have is you have kind of like this corroboration from a group and also the New York Times involvement in 2017. My opinion about the tic-tacs is that first, I believe the people who have had the experiences, I know some of them, like, you know, some of the radar people and things like that, they saw them and they're not, I don't believe they're making it up. Okay, I do think that this is being used as a spin, okay? And I'm just going to say that. And the reason I think that is this, is because at the time it was released, I was still in touch with many people who were among the UFO Fight Club. And so they had intimate knowledge of these things. And the first thing they said was, we have satellites that can read the news on your phone.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “Yeah, okay, so that happened around the 1950s after quote unquote the 1940s where we have 47 and we have this Roswell type stuff going on okay like crash sites and things like that So I think that I think there might be a correlation there. I don't know what it is. Okay. But I do think”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “Yeah, I think so. Absolutely. However, I think we have to be really careful about those because young people or people in general, I should say absolutely can get hurt by them. I mean, but we get hurt by alcohol. You know, we drive our cars and we get kill each other. But psychedelics are really interesting because I know that within the history of... Of our country, we have used psychedelics in various capacities for our military in order to try to stimulate ideas and access places and information that can't be accessed normally. This is all fact.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Different things, but they all saw some kind of thing. Okay, so they saw different things, but it was. Something happened, okay? So I guess the question is, what are these places where we access non what I'd call like non-physical realities? Where we actually do get information. We get like, who could say that Jack Parsons didn't get information from doing these rituals? Accessing these, we have to say that he actually did because we see the results of physical results. The same thing with Tyler, and that's why I put Tyler in this camp with this tradition with Jack Parsons. I say that Tyler is getting these, what he calls downloads. And you can see the results of them physically. He sells them on the NASDAQ. He makes millions of dollars from them. They help people. I've seen people who they've helped. Okay, so”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “I could be wrong, but this is what I think Jacques's getting at. There were other ways to access places in reality other than what we consider to be physical. There's consciousness, okay? So, like I said, so religious studies is among other things. It's looking at visionary experiences, all right? So people do have visionary experiences. They did without drugs, you know, they did with drugs. They do with drugs. They do many have them without drugs today. And oftentimes those visionary experiences correspond to each other. Now, how do we make sense of that? So, you know, do these places actually exist? In a sense, I think they do. And so I think that, you know, let's take that very famous case of a Virgin Mary apparition in Fatima, where I think there was like a lot of people, thousands and thousands, if not like I think 50,000 or something like that, a lot of people gathered to see what's now called the miracle of Fatima, which was the spinning of the sun. Well, a lot of people saw.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “Don't think they're the same, no belief is powerful, okay? New age communities, you know, people think thoughts are things. Okay, that's been said. Thoughts are things. You can make them happen kind of thing, believe in them enough. It is true that if I believe I can run a 540 mile, I'll do it. And I probably will do it. And I've done it before, actually, much younger, but I did it. But my coach is the one that instilled that belief in me, right? And so, but can I run like one minute mile? No. Okay. So I guess, does that answer your question? Like there's only so far belief goes in generating reality.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “Believed in these things and believed that they were downloading this information, whether or not they were, I don't. I mean, they definitely created the rocket technologies. That's true. How they did and whether their process was exactly what they said it was, I don't know. So this is the same thing today. So we've got some powerful technologies going on here. And, you know, of course, we have a military and we have a military for a reason. Almost every government who needs a military has one. And so they're going to keep the way they should be kept in my interpretation. I mean, think about it. Everybody accepts the fact that we have a military, almost everybody does. Why are they so upset then that the military keeps secrets?”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “So I wouldn't cut you don't have to call it alien technology, you can call it ideas about alien technology because I don't know if it's actual alien technology or not. I honestly don't know, but I do know for a fact because it's a historical fact that Jack Parsons and Konstantin Chaikovsky, who's Russian,”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “About this topic, okay. And so I called them the invisibles because I was surprised to find them. And I thought, well, this is no longer And he's incredible. He does incredible things. He's like a person who should not exist, right? Because he does so many things that are amazing. And so I found a person like that. And I call, and he's a real person. He's partially on the internet, but nothing that he does around that topic of UFOs is on the internet. So I decided to call him Tyler D after Tyler Durden. And so these people I've turned the UFO fight club because they work together, but they don't know. In fact, his boss doesn't know what he does. They don't talk to each other because, you know, the first rule of fight club.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Invisible college. So Heineck took that term and reused it, or what do you call it, repurposed it. So he repurposed it. They were still talking to each other, though. So what I found to be the case was that there was a group of people who were scientists but were not on the internet. You know, to people today and students of mine in particular and my own kids actually, they think that you only exist if you're on the internet or something only exists if it's on the internet. And that's, of course, untrue. And so what I found was that there are most people who are the most powerful people of our society and are doing things are not on the internet. You're not going to find any trace of them. So a lot of these people are what I call invisibles, people who are studying, at least their work is invisible. You might find them on the internet, but you're going to find that they're part of the bowling league or something like that, right? You will not find that they are actually engaged in research.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “So, this would be like what to the Stars Academy is trying to decipher, like how, you know, how do they do it? You know, maybe we could use that technology, the propulsion and things like that. They look at the rocket technology. Okay, so there are those. And then there are people who believe that it's more consciousness-based. Okay. So these are your two types of ufologists who are known. And these are people who we know about. Then I found that there are people who are quote unquote, I call them the invisibles because Jacques Vallet in the 70s, he and I think actually Alan Heineck, his colleague quoted, this is a Francis Bacon. By the way, it goes back to the early modern time period when scientists could be killed for basically trying to go outside the church or the government institution determined was dogma. And so they had to be really careful. So he called it.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Sure, generally, what I found is that they are, okay, so people who are interested in UFOs from like being a kid, you know, and seeing some cool movie like Star Wars or something. And then they become interested and then they study it as best they can, UFOs or UAPs. They're generally an honest group of people who are using their tools. They're generally two types of them. There are those who believe in the nuts and bolts like the physical craft and they believe in that these are things from other planets. Okay, so that's like the ETH hypothesis. I'm sorry, ET hypothesis. ETH is what we call it. Yeah, sorry about that”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “They're replicating themselves through us. Okay. I see that also, and I don't think that's terribly bad. Maybe it's just the way that we are evolving. It doesn't mean that we're evolving all the time. Like we're taller than we used to be. You know, we have different skills. And, you know, so I don't see that as a bad thing. I think a lot of people see it as if we're not how we are now, it's a tragedy, but it's not a tragedy. How we are now is actually a tragedy for most people alive.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “Perhaps we can develop our bodies such that we can survive the radiation in space. So there's this idea of these meta-humans. Now, there's also this idea that technology is just another form of humans. We've created it, right? And so maybe it is bent on surviving, thereby using us, you know, as a meme or a team. Some people are calling them teams now, these self-generating.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “Becoming two different species, okay? And one of them is created, they're called metahumans, and they start biohacking themselves with tech. Okay, sound familiar. So they do this and they become meta-humans and another species, right? And, you know, just kind of another fork. Such that humans can barely understand them because they're so far removed. So in a sense, are they gods, right? No, they're metahumans. They're superhumans. They're enhanced humans. Okay. I see that hopefully on the horizon, frankly. I hope so. Not that we have two species, but that we can use our technology or we can become so integrated with our technology that we can survive. Okay, we can survive the radiation in space. We can't go places now because of the radiation in space.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “Exactly. The author Ted Chang, I recommend his writings, his short stories. One is very short, and it appeared as about 20 years ago. And it is called, I think it's called eating the crumbs from the table or something like that. And it's basically this short essay, and I hate to do, you know, to do a spoiler here, but if you don't want to know what it's about, don't listen right now. Yeah, spoil alert. Yeah. Okay. So this is what it's about. So basically it's about human beings.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “First of all, I think she's correct, okay? But also an awesome quote. I'd also like to bring up this writer of fiction, actually, Ted Chang. And one of his essays, he writes short essays. One of them was the basis for the movie Arrival, which if you haven't seen it, it's a really great movie about UFOs.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “Yeah, there's a lot there. So I'm going to start by addressing this idea of artificial intelligence being separate from human beings. I don't think that's actually, that might happen. It's already happened, but let's put it this way. Like you're talking about super artificial intelligence, like autonomous conscious artificial intelligence. Okay, yeah.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “Come to this idea that we're in this space, we're in now a new space of religion, of religiosity. So what happens is then, and it's like a biosphere, and I'll talk about that in a minute. So Jacques takes us back. We get to San Francisco, and my brother, who is your straight-lace person, you know, army guy and everything like that. Am I getting to his car? And the first thing he tells me is I took ayahuasca. And I was like, what?”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “There and them talking about their experiences in these realms of which religious studies people are quite familiar by the way because visionary experiences are what we study. So all of this seems super familiar to me and I recognize that immediately That it hit me like, you know, very obvious that UFOs and these experiences and technology all seemed, they were all meshed together. And I knew that I had to take them. I knew I had to read everything Jacques ever wrote. And the best stuff he's written by the way is his little essays that he wrote in the 1970s. And there were peer-reviewed essays about the beginning of the internet and how a lot of it was based on Basically neural connection with the internet, like somehow psychic connection through the internet with others and things like that.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “Was like, okay, I definitely will read that first. Okay, so this is how the ayahuasca figures in. I didn't take it, nor have I taken it. Okay, so we were at this place in California. And Alex Gray and his wife were there and they were talking about their experiences with psychedelics. You know, he's an amazing visionary artist. Okay. So he believes that there's this place that you can enter and he and his wife would enter this space with either ayahuasca or LSD or something like that. And they would not talk to each other, but they would be having the same exact experience. So it was almost like having the same dream, right? Okay. So somehow that whole event with Jacques.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “Okay, so I was at a conference, and it was a small conference of very interesting people in California on the Pacific Ocean. And Jacques was there. And this is actually opens my book. This is the I go, I preface to my book. I go on this ride. He takes me through Silicon Valley. I've lived there. My grandparents grew up in the same place that he raised his children in Belmont. And so, but we were there with Robbie Graham, who's a great ufologist in his own right and film theorist. I highly recommend his work. So we were together and he was taking us to San Francisco where I was going to meet my brother who was going to take me home. And so he took us on this long journey and he talked to us. And as we got out of the car, he gave me several of his books. And one in particular, he gave me. Said, read this first.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “Thanks for asking that again because nobody asks me that question and It's central to my project. So Jacques was a huge influence, is a huge influence on me. He taught me a lot. He gave me access to some of his information that he keeps. But a lot of his information is actually there out there for everyone to read. He has an academia.edu page and he just so he didn't have this unfortunately when i was doing my research in 2012 and 2013 so i had to go back and do microfiche type stuff you know what i did was i began to read everything that he wrote and he actually gave me a lot of his books too and he told me i remember um he dropped me off from this is actually quite interesting if you'll allow me to tell you a little story Okay, and it also includes ayahuasca.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “Our lives better, and we progress as a species because of them. Now, that has nothing to do with the scientific method. As much as I know, as much as anybody's going to get angry at me for saying that, but you know, sorry, those were strange encounters that created our ability to go into space. I don't know if they're real or not, but these people believe they were real.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “And they were really doing that, okay? So then you go to the Russian side and they had a very specific Non dogmatic according to Catholics or Orthodox Christianity, idea of what Christianity was. And they believed that they were interacting with angels, okay? Non-human intelligences. So if you look back and you see muses, you know, you can contextualize them within this tradition. And so when I started to talk to people who were actually in the space program and who were in these programs that now the government has said, oh yeah, we do have those programs. And they have the same belief structures. They believe that they were also in contact with these non-human intelligences and they were getting what they call downloads of information and creating sometimes with Tyler D in my book creating technologies that were real and they were selling them on NASDAQ for a lot of money, like say $100 million or something like that undisclosed amounts, but a lot. And these things are viable technologies that we use now and they may.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “History of our space programs, the viable space programs are both Russian and American, and each has an amazingly strange history because the founders of the calculations that got us up into space, the rocket scientists basically, were doing some pretty weird rituals and doing religious things, right? They weren't necessarily like Jack Parsons on our side was out in the desert with people like L. Ron Hubbard and doing”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “Super amazing capacities like poetic, creative, you know, intelligent, mathematical, whatever, you know, because they tend to do this symbolically. They tend to communicate with us in symbols, form. And so music, you know, symbols, we've got math that are, you know, it's a symbolic language. And so, okay, so muses are probably a good idea for me of what this would be. Now, would muses have spaceships, you know, or those things that we call physical counterparts to what they are? That's another question altogether. But if, you know, I now, why would I think this? Because if you look at the history of our space programs, both Russian and American, you're going to find some pretty weird stuff, pretty weird history there, Lex. So you want to get an idea, go back to Jakalski and read a little bit about what he has to say. If you look back at the...”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “This extraterrestrial or not extraterrestrial, let me put it another way non human intelligence that's communicating with us. I'm going to tell you how I think they communicate with us. And I go back to the Greeks again, okay?”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “Yeah, it wasn't a degree. He has a PhD in it. And he's French. He's from France, but he lives in Silicon Valley. And he worked on ARPANET, which is the proto internet. He mapped Mars. He's also an astronomer. I mean, he's just this all-around, brilliant guy, right? And he's also interested in UFOs. And most people take those two interests of his as separate interests. And I remember being at a very small conference and listening to him, of being in off, of course, because he's an awe-inspiring person. And then thinking, wait a minute, why do people compartmentalize those two things about him? They're one and the same. Okay. So when we talk about UFOs and UAPs and stuff, we have to talk about digital technology and things like that. Now, if we are going back to what I, so if I were to say, if I were to believe in, and I, like I said earlier, I was agnostic, bordering on belief, most likely a believer in these.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “Yeah, of course. So the quote by David Bowie, and that's what I'm going to concentrate on in response to what you just said, which I think is absolutely correct. David Bowie said the internet is an alien life form. Okay. And if you've not seen David Bowie's interview where he says that, I highly recommend it. He's so brilliant. Okay, so David Bowie is actually quite brilliant about the idea of UFOs. He's also brilliant about the idea of technology. And most people wouldn't think that. But I mean, he's pretty darn smart. Okay. So, all right. So I started to think about it. And I also early on in my research met Jacques Vallet. Okay. So he's a technologist. He has a PhD in information technology from a computer science, basically, from Northwestern. And he got that back in the day. You know, when I say back in the day, I'm not talking a thousand years ago. I'm talking like in the 60s, okay. So he's back.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “Oh, absolutely. It accords exactly with how I think, actually. So I'll explain. I liked in American Cosmic. I attained the status of full professor. So I was like, okay, I can pretty much write this book like I want to do it. And I did. So I used a lot of quotes from cool artists like David Bowie. Okay. So David Bowie opens the book, okay? And he basically says, and so does Nietzsche, by the way. David Bowie and Nietzsche, boom, two awesome quotes right together. That's how I open my book.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  47. “The situation that is correct. That's what I like to tell people. I've like, no, it's probably a lot weirder than you think.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  48. “They look like strange spinning things, right? With like, you know, eyes and things like that. They communicate telepathically with us. Okay, so what does that mean for the idea of extraterrestrials or what we consider to be aliens? Do you think that First, if we are, if listen, I'm not the first to say this. If we're in contact with non-human intelligence, we're most likely in contact with its technology. Because think about us. Do we send human beings to Mars yet? Some people say yes. But let's put that aside. So no, we don't. We use our technology. We send our rovers to Mars. Okay. Okay. So. If there's an extraterrestrial civilization, is it sending, are they coming by themselves? Are they coming to see us? Or are they sending their technology? Most likely they either are technology or they are sending their technology.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  49. “Yes, this Let's take, for instance, this idea of an angel. Okay, so we all think we know what an angel looks like. Why? Well, we've been told what an angel looks like. We see what an angel looks like throughout history. People have painted angels and they all look pretty much the same. But actually, if you go to the primary sources on either in Hebrew or in Greek or in whatever language and in Latin, and you look at experiences that people have talked about, you know, where they've written down their experiences about angels, angels don't at all look like what we think. They don't look like little cherubs with wings. They don't look like tall, strong. Anthropomorphic human looking things they don't, they look really weird. And sometimes they don't look at all humanoid.”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  50. “Yes, I think that I'd have to go off record as a professor and talk personally. As a person, I do think that Are mysteries of which we have an inkling. And if it's something as powerful as Non human intelligence, whether or not it's from another planet, extraterrestrial, or it happens to be from like another dimension or something else, I think that this is going to get the attention of institutions of power. And indeed, I think that's what has happened. And although probably People have had interactions with these things. It appears to me historically for a long time as long as humans have existed, I would imagine that indeed Is something that's quite powerful and could change the belief structures of our entire societies or civilization basically”

    2020-12-28 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #149 – Diana Walsh Pasulka: Aliens, Technology, Religion, and the Nature of Belief · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source