YouSaid · the spoken record

Dipayan Ghosh

lines on the record: 95
first: 2018-01-31
most recent: 2018-01-31
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“That's how I do it. See? That's how I do it. That's how I drag you into my web of interesting discussions. I always want interesting discussions, whether I agree with people or not. And that's what's most important because we've got to talk about these things because we need to solve them. We don't want our society to go down and down and down into some miasma of no privacy and we're staring at phones and we're being taken advantage of because I think what Silicon Valley is the good part of Silicon Valley is very good and the bad part is problematic in many ways. Anyway, I'm here with Dapay and Ghosh and Ben Scott was just here also. There are two fellows at the think tank New America and they've written a report that you should read. It's a really important one, a policy paper called Digital Deceit, the Technologies Behind Precision.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Great. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. I'm glad you tweeted back at me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm mostly mad at the Democrats because I saw them at all the parties. They're like, oh, the internet. And I'm like, didn't see that when you were enjoying the lovely caviar canopies.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, as we stated in the conclusion, what we would like to do is just very briefly in the conclusion we talk about a few different steps, high-level principles that can be pursued, including consumer education by industry, by public advocates and the rest. And then we talk very briefly also about steps toward a new regulatory framework for not just for the industry, but for communication overall. And amongst those potential areas of further inquiry, I think our privacy, consumer protection, and antitrust. And I think we lay out a couple of initial directions, but we're not fully knowledgeable about exactly where to go yet. And we're conducting more analysis and want to think. So just beginning.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Change our system to the European one, and I agree with President Obama when he stated that there might actually be some commercial reasons as to the particular points of advocacy from some of the vice presidents of the European Commission and EU, for example.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that that's absolutely right, and I think that's how the market is designed. And that's the underpinning of the American capitalist system. And that's okay. I don't think that we should revert or not revert.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's not the case. I agree with you. I just think they weren't paying attention. They don't think like that. I think it's hard to understand their mentality. I've talked about this before, but often I'll go in, I'll name six bad things that could happen with one other product. And they're always like, Carrie, you're so negative. You know what I mean? And they actually, I don't think they're being tricky and they're wink, wink, nudge, nudge. We know the problem. I think they never, they think about opportunity over problems.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So is this Yeah, and I thought that you were asking more about ex Facebook employees than that too. It's just no, you're absolutely right. This is a broad issue now. It's one that everybody cares about, wants to have an opinion on. And I think that's important. It just shows the importance of getting it right. I'm not with the camp that has said that, for example, Facebook as an example. Facebook”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, is this overkill? Now it's like seems they're blamed for it. I mean, I just said George Soros. I don't want to get a lecture from him about, come on, manipulator of so many things. You know what I mean? Everyone feels the ability to pile on now.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Recently, there have been a couple of notable people. I don't think Ben and I are, I know neither of us are trying to swing at the knees of the industry that has become the medium of communication today. Instead, what we want to do is develop”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Are you with the group? There's so many ex Facebook people now are like, I can't believe what we did. Do you feel that way?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To the particular problem of disinformation and privacy more broadly. And I think that we all have to be part of that. The company that I used to work for, Facebook has actually taken a lot of incredible steps to try to inform people about how it collects data and how they can make choices about how they share information with Facebook.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, you know, I think that people have the voice when they come together, they can have an incredible voice. And I'm thinking back to net neutrality, for example. John Oliver talked about net neutrality on his show in 2014, and that pushed four million people to comment to the FCC toward the goal of bringing strong net neutrality regulation forward. And, of course, we've heard a lot about bots and fake accounts commenting to the FCC now and impersonations. But I think that that is the Fundamental thing that a citizen can do comment to her government that I want you to take these actions on my behalf and my kids' behalf. And that's not just the FCC that's... That's offices too on the hill. That's the number one thing I would say.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What do people have to do? And what are you some predictions? I don't see any regulation here. I just don't see. I think they can't agree on lunch in Washington anymore. And so getting to that is the last kind of thing and creating more controversy seems, again, there has to be some sort of digital Armageddon, which even Equifax hasn't kept people's level of outrage up. And that's just plain old incompetence and greed, essentially, that everyone can react to, right? Like, wow, they really took advantage of me and people don't seem to care. So where can plain old people do about this? Like, how do you maintain level? Because I think what they're meant to do is anesthetize us into liking your apps and liking, you know, just create, having engineers figure out how to keep you more and more engaged with this and less and less enraged and more kind of, it's like Soma almost from 1984. That's how I look at it.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're not doing nothing. I was going to have you say that. They're not doing nothing. They're not going to do nothing. And not for a while, I think, for a long time. I think not for a while.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That makes you a washing in person. And that's an example where President Obama did have a strong commitment starting from his days in the Senate, tried everything he could. And people accused him of putting his finger on the button of the, you know. You know, I think that with the FCC, it's frustrating to see a lot of the things that are happening. I mean, the FCC's role is to bring regulation and enforce it on a huge industry that has a lot of power over regular people. And to rip down the regulatory framework that has overseen nothing.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No more new laws. Rip everything down. And it obviously hits hard for me. One of the issues that I worked on with many people in the Obama administration was the net neutrality. That's gone. I mean, you should confirm.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Connecticut. And getting to Leslie, and then I want to get some predictions from you, the FCC, where a lot of this FTC and the FCC, where are we with them?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I think that there are some states that have really taken on interesting and novel approaches to privacy, in particular privacy. I mean, California has had a longstanding commitment to privacy and has been thinking about, for example, broadband privacy. The think tank that Ben and I work for New America has done a significant push for broadband privacy at the national level with the FCC and in California once the FCC dropped the ball. I think California is one of those states that I'd look to. Certainly Washington, Texas, Illinois, Connecticut.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, no, it's hard because I'm thinking of the Commerce Committee. And one of the issues is that it is... They're for a long time the companies have been very close to the Commerce Committee. And it's very hard to see a way in for consumer advocates.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the Senate, I think it's hugely important and inspiring that Warner and Booker and the like are speaking out about this McCain are speaking out about this and taking this issue on. I should also mention people who have had a long-standing commitment toward consumer privacy as well. Marky and Blumenthal among them. That is important. I would love to see more people, especially in the Senate, standing up and thinking about consumer privacy. It doesn't have to be in a way that you state rhetoric that is directly in contradiction of the internet companies. I think that something like the consumer privacy Bill of Rights legislation introduces a lot of interesting ideas. That the companies could absolutely get behind if it were done in the right way. But I would love to see people like Tim Kane and...”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's the goal, I think, in a lot of ways. Even though they pulled off the councils and stuff and they tried to make stands, I think their issue is their base, their employees, which is their base, don't like the cozying up. And so they tend to want to react to that, first of all. And at the same time, I wrote a piece saying, here's where there's seven interests lie with them, including tax repatriation, especially tax repatriation. Because a lot of things, they are aligned, and it all has to do with corporate profits, essentially. And then in that story in the New York Times, which was really interesting, the Democrats are starting to, we did a Cory Booker interview a while ago where he was quite anti-Tech, I would say, he'd say thoughtfully, but it was pretty anti-tech for him a Democrat. And others are talking about Kamal Harris certainly, and when she was Attorney General of California, was very tough on privacy issues in that state, which is similar to Europe in that regard, or similar, not totally similar. But where are the people doing that?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Maybe we'll know. So it's hard to read, and it seems from everything, who knows whether or not he's re-elected, but at least for the next two or three years, it seems as though we won't have much besides deregulation of the telecommunications industry, which is already happening. I hope it can be stopped by Congress, but we'll see. But we don't really know what's happening with the core tech companies. So it remains to be seen. I think that if they start cozying up to the administration, there could be prolonged”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You stated more directly. I don't think there's anyone over there thinking. I don't think they filled those jobs or anything like that.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Privacy. So let's talk about where we're going. I think one of the things I'm not like, I mean, because here we are with this administration, which seems to not be more hostile to tech for sure, but in a really odd way, you know, Bezos Washington Post, that's really not helpful. Like, that's not really, it doesn't have any direction. It's just sort of free-ranging rage toward it. And at the same time has been helped by it, looks like it, a little bit. And so how do you imagine this?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You're busy with healthcare, you're busy with health. Of course. It wasn't necessarily the administration's top priority at the time. The president was obviously in his second term and wanted to leave a legacy and get things done that could really have momentous impact for many, many people. This, of course, can. But I don't think any of us, myself included, anticipated. All the harm that could come to the country from a lack of fundamental privacy.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because we knew that it was dead on arrival, let alone in Congress, you know, in the public discussion, we anticipated it was going to be attacked from all angles, whether we were talking about EPIC, the left-leaning privacy. Advocacy group, which I deeply respect, or industry groups. Industry groups.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Google and Facebook and other companies. Similarly, we were talking directly to the FTC. I myself would at the time have considered myself and still do a privacy engineer and advocate. So it was advised by a lot of voices. It fell flat. You know, we intentionally released it on a Friday night, I think.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They do have a lot of money, but it's because they engage people across these ideas in such an emotional way. I think that's important and that has guided a lot of the rhetoric about these companies and this industry over time. Obviously I don't speak for the administration only the president does. I can say personally that while I was there, I felt as though we were doing everything in our power to push forward. Fundamental privacy reform. We've already stated that there has been political gridlock on that issue. And obviously in a broader context, there was gridlock on every issue in 2015 when the Obama administration drew everything.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Value So, I want to talk about how to do that because the thing I do stress, and I want you to explain, and you're to blame for all the Obama administration and Clinton people. You now carry the weight of all of them on their shoulders. Why didn't they do something earlier when they had a chance? Because I think what they tended to do is there's laws in place already around all kinds of issues. And I remember saying these are real new problems. We need new laws like when we went from horses to cars. Cars are different. They're sort of the same, but they're not. They move forward, they move people forward in time or space or whatever. Why was there not, was it just the starry-eyed, isn't Elon Musk dreamy kind of thing? What was the problem from being in it?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Theirs in the companies. I think the companies are part of the answer. I think The internet has created so much in the world. And I think that as many leaders have said already, on the whole, Social media and the internet platforms have and still do create so much value for so much positive. And this is a flaw that can probably be solved if we can overcome these things like political gridlock and so on and so forth. So I do think it's achievable. But we need to think now about these things. And when we have the opportunity to push them forward again, we have to seize it.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, do you imagine these companies feel the pressure? Do you think it's genuine some of these? They're now starting Mark Ducker every five minutes, he writes a 6,000 word essay on feeling badly, or we're going to change it, or we're going to fix it. And I literally have lunches every day. And what's interesting about it is about a year or so ago, I was more attacking of them, and now they were like, stop complaining about our responsibility. And I think the phrase I try to use because they're geeks and they like it is with great power comes great responsibility, which was from the movie Spider-Man, it's actually a Voltaire quote, which is that they have to take the, they've taken the money, they've taken the power, they've taken people's, they've done lots of damage, but now they have to fix things, whereas Facebook has said, move fast and break things. I've always like you've broken enough things. Let's try to fix them. Do you imagine that they are part of this answer? Is that too, you can't let the powerful people control the outcome?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely. These two principles just don't match up. That's okay. We've always tried to figure out how we can organize markets in a way that is respectful and meaningful for individual consumers. And I think that that's exactly where we have to come back to. So, you know, I think in short, we really need to think about the regulatory regimes that apply to data privacy, as Ben mentioned earlier. consumer protection, antitrust, and a few others, we really need to go back and assess how our regulatory regime in the United States is written and applied. And think about how the Internet can be under a new set of guidance from government. Informed by the public in a way that can bring us back to those human values that we want to respect. And as consumers continue to use these engaging products”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Answer whatever question you want. I think the place where we have to all come back to is our human values. And what do we value in this country? What do we value as people? Well, for me, for one, I value the right to privacy. I value the right to agency and individual agency and autonomy. And I think that... As we discussed earlier”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We dominate. The US dominates. So talk a little bit about how if you want to change these things, you're also, and they make a very good argument, that you're hitting innovation, that China is going to just do whatever it wants. And right now, even in Silicon Valley, there's a big, there's a lot of people going, well, in China, they don't have to deal with the niceties of sexual harassment, or they don't have to deal with being diverse or the kind of things that are also being discussed in Silicon Valley. So can you talk a little bit about that?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm here with Depayant Gosh in a studio in Washington, D.C. talking about Washington, D.C. He's from the think tank New America. We just had his partner in a report that the pair did, Ben Scott. They're co-authors of a new policy paper of the town called Digital Deceit, the Technologies Behind Precision Propaganda on the Internet. That would be the talk of the town in Washington, wouldn't it? Nothing too exciting. Let's talk about the current environment, because Ben was just talking about Europe having the commitment to do this, but in a lot of ways, it's not enough. It's got to happen here in this country. One of the things I did talk to you about when I was on Twitter was the money, first of all, the money that these companies have, the influence, and not just that, but the admiration that a lot of politicians have had for innovation. This is the one industry that we win at across the globe and still continue to dominate Apple, Facebook, Google, all of them, Microsoft, Twitter, whatever you think of Twitter in their business.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Through enough. All right, Ben, you have to go, but when we get back, we're going to talk to DePayan about what are the things we have to do to make this happen and where it goes from here and whether the internet companies are finally understanding the damage that they've caused and what they need to do about it. We're here with Depayan Ghosh and Ben Scott. They're both fellows at the think tank New America. They've written a really interesting paper you should read. It really is actually readable. Digital deceit, the technologies behind the precision propaganda on the internet. And I wanted to say propaganda. It's also precision targeting precision manipulation, precision advertising, essentially, on the internet when we get back on Recode, decode.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I predict there's going to be a Pandora's box of adjudications on these questions as the Europeans test both how far the law allows them to go and where there is political will to take action. Absolutely. Is that going to be partially informed by Europeans' own economic interest to promote their own tech sector? Of course it is. Is it also informed by a principled commitment to protecting data privacy and the integrity of democracy?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“However, I do think that the intelligence and analysis that comes out of the debate over these issues in the United States is being watched carefully by Europeans. And in May, they will implement the general data protection regulation. And there are many European regulators, not just in Brussels, but at the data protection authorities all across the EU. Who believe that what we are pointing out in this paper is unlawful under the GDPR.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now everybody is jacked into the internet and they do know. And besides not just this issue, but the issue of tech addiction, of how they design these systems to keep you again in the slot machine of attention, which I think if you think of slot machines, you really do start to understand what's happening here. When you talk about this idea in this paper, what I want to do, because you've got to go, is if you could just, what do you write this paper, point out stuff that people do know that this is, who do you see as having this actually turning into real change? Because the only one I see is Marguerite Vestager in Europe. I'm just using her as an example. There's a whole bunch of commissioners there, or European regulators seem to be the only ones who are holding internet companies' feet to the fire. And I only say that because when I interviewed President Obama a couple of years ago, he was calling what they were doing in Europe protectionism, not, you know, good policy about privacy. Instead, he was saying they're trying to protect their...”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It reminds me a little bit of the, and I know Ben has to go in a minute, and then we'll finish up the last section with De Payan. But Ben, it reminds me a tiny bit of the oil industry, like how much influence they had or the stopping electric car, you know, who killed the electric car. And, you know, we all know that pollution is bad for humanity. We all know safety regulations that we didn't have in mines were bad for people, but they continued because of political influence and will.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“These two places are culturally different. And in America we have for a long time valued the strength of the market. And I do think that this is a moment, but I think it'll pass, and I think that we will be in that longstanding tranche of trying to figure out where we go on data privacy. It's frustrating. It's a long battle. There have been many people who've participated in it and Ben and I are part of that group. And I think it can happen. But you're right. There is political gridlock right now on that issue as there is. It reminds me a little bit.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Those types of signals can be used to try to draw out with, let's say, 95% confidence that, okay, this advertiser, this guy is a disinformation agent. He or she is trying to influence malevolently a voter. So I think that that's, you know, I hope that these discussions can lead us there in the next one or two years within the industry. I think in the longer term, and touching on your broader point about Democrats, Republicans coming together and thinking about Privacy, as we know, there is no baseline privacy law in the United States, like there is in Europe.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that those discussions, this current intent in Washington and interest from the public to think about think strategically and critically about the industry can lead somewhere. And I think Ben just suggested it in his last statement about using AI. I think that these discussions can really lead to industry action in the, I wouldn't say immediate, but shorter term to try to use different signals like the geography, the origin of the advertiser.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Whoever isn't is going to be quieter, like the Republicans. And when the Democrats were in power, they were very silent about these issues. I mean, now they're suddenly born again internet haters, but they were, as I said on the Twitter, they were pandering suck-ups for a long time, not you in particular, not you too, but they were. Like there's just no other way to put it. Like, they were pandering suck-ups to the tech industry.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So you're talking about regulation that doesn't seem to be coming, even though there's been a lot of hearings and everything else. Perhaps I'm cynical and old, but I feel like this has been going on since the beginning of the internet. Nobody seems to have the political will. I know this could be, you know, you're always looking for a moment that will change everything. Everyone's always talking about a privacy or data Armageddon that will finally get everyone to realize that, wait a second, this stuff has control of our lives. We don't understand. And this moment may be that. But again, it's highly politicized and people are even arguing whether it even matters. Do you feel if this is a moment and there is political will, who has it? And how can that be done in a non-political way? Because it seems as like that's the only way to do it, but whoever's being disadvantaged is going to be louder like the Democrats right now.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's just where I was going with that once you've gotten people there, then you need to think about all right, how much of this can be solved with new technology. Can you deploy an AI system to detect and remedy disinformation in the way the companies have done it with child pornography, terrorist speech, things of that nature? I think there's certainly a role for technology to play, and I would welcome all of the innovative minds focusing on that. But I think ultimately there have to be, at the very least, bright line rules about what the public needs in order to be protected from harm, in order to maximize benefit. This is the new media environment that provides information and news to our democracy. We need to protect it and make sure that it has integrity.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And as much as I might like it to be different, that is how it is. And the companies recognize that. And as long as their users aren't complaining, they don't believe they have a problem. Right, right. That's what I think is different about this moment. This moment where we are now in a political context where people are realizing, wow, something fundamental has shifted. We are divided in a way that we haven't been in generations. We just live in different media environments with different sets of facts. How did that happen? And how can we begin to undo it? And at the root of that, Is data privacy.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Can I just before you answer that second part how come they're not mad? Well, because they never are. I mean, there can be one data breach after the next and nobody seems to care.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“First thing you have to do is create political will You have to create political will by educating the public about what's at the root of this problem, which is why we're so focused on shifting the debate from Russia and national security as important as that is, to the fundamentals of the digital media marketplace that trades on data to target persuasive messaging. We need to begin to control the way that's done. Otherwise, we're going to continue to see adverse effects in the public. People need to understand that. And I think ironically, it could well be that the political will that we've never had to address commercial data privacy in this marketplace won't come from e-commerce, but from political disinformation.”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, Ven, let's talk about the technology of doing that because a lot of what Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Facebook and founder and others have talked about is you, and I just interviewed Sundar Pachai, the CEO of Google, talking about AI and how the ability to use that will give them more tools in order to do this. Is this just more, they tend to try to talk about AI and other things. I was talking focused on the future of jobs and this happy, shiny future will take care of it ways, but pretty much they're not bringing a very happy, shiny future at this point and have made enough mistakes of people being had to question their ability to handle the technology. So can you talk a little bit about how that happens if you want to create a new regulatory framework? You've got to obviously, because look at the lobbying money that Google and others are spending is enormous. I think it's one of the biggest this year. How do you then create something that actually does what you're saying?”
2018-01-31 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Dipayan Ghosh and Ben Scott, co-authors, ‘Digital Deceit’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT