YouSaid · the spoken record

Doug Jones

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2022-10-06

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2022-10-06

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1. “And I was just really taken. He was young. He and Jill had just gotten married. She came with him. And I just thought that his charisma and his politics. And the thing that I always remember was that to me, he was the kind of politician who looks in the eye and tells you what he believes and tries to engage in discussion about what you each believe. And at the end of the day, if somebody can't support him, he says, fine, vote anyway. Maybe we can do something on a different. And I was just really impressed from day one. And we just maintained contact ever since. He came out, was in 1988, which was 10 years after I first met him. I was going to be one of his co-chairs for the state of Alabama. And he came and we did a whole swing through Alabama. And it was just, it was just great before he had to drop out. Thank God he did because he had that aneurysm right after.”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

2. “An event First met Joe Biden. He was in his first term when I was in law school. He came and spoke. We had a really good speaker series at my law school in Herman. Yeah, no, he really had a good one. And he liked Cumberland. He had been there a couple of times before I got there”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

3. “All these famous people. It was just incredible the way they passed. And I asked him his advice about being a trial lawyer. And he said, watch lawyers. Watch good lawyers ply their trade and don't imitate them, but just watch them and understand. And so I did. I learned more watching that. Those three or four days of that jury. And Bill, but Bill was one of those leaders. He was one of those what I call the New South leaders at the time that I thought could bring Alabama forward. And unfortunately, he got beat in 1978 for governor by Fob James. And then he got beat again later on in 1986.”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

4. “One other Robert Champless Bill prosecuted Dynamite Bob Champlis for the murder of Denise McNair in the church bombing. And I did. I cut classes in law school because I had this interesting interaction with William O'Douglas, Justice Douglas, when I was in college. And I asked him his advice on”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

5. “That's right. He got elected his first time when I was in law school. He came to the law school was our law day speaker, traveled around with him, picked him up. And, you know, it was just me and one other buddy with the governor. And, you know, and it was that young group of New South governors and leaders that I thought were really going to lead. And Alabama had a couple of those. Bill Baxley. Who is Alabama's attorney general?”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

6. “You know, you had the Dale bumpers of the world and the Reuben Askews of the world and they were, and in the Senate you had folks like Sam Dunn and others. And it was a whole new generation of leaders in the South that were moving beyond civil rights into more equal rights as well as prosperity. And that really attracted me. And I got to know Senator Heflin, who when he was Chief Justice. By the way,”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

7. “I don't know. I think because I think instinctively for me, I could see potentials for Alabama beyond the George Wallace's world. I literally believe that I could see being held back by the George Wallace of the world and people around the country looking down on Alabama because of who was leading Alabama over and over again, by the way, got elected like four years. Times maybe five. And I could see beyond that. I could see a progression for people of all races, religions that I thought would be very good for the state of Alabama. And there was about that time in high school and college, you had this whole what they then called New South governors.”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

8. “St. Nicholas Katsenback, who was the later Attorney General down there. Yeah. And so those were my heroes. And I saw. Why?”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

9. “You know, that's hard to say. I think that in high school, I got kind of involved a little bit, was always fascinated. I mean, you know, when I'm growing up, some of my heroes were Robert Kennedy and John F. Kennedy. Well, that's really.”

   2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

10. “In defense of the institutional slavery, America's original sin. And that whole narrative has somehow, I think, contributing to what we're seeing now and this backlash about history. I think it's been there below the surface. And again, tapping into the resentment, this underlying fear that people have about others replacing them or whatever you want to say, to me, history is But we cannot just gloss over our flaws. We've got to learn from them.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

11. “It was as close to apartheid as you could get. And it resulted in the deaths of people. It resulted in people being kept at lower income levels and not given opportunities. And so I think that trying to teach that history is incredibly important. The same time that was going on, David, in the South and really across the country, there was this myth about the lost cause of the Confederacy as if that was a noble cause. Because, I mean, in fact, the Confederacy took up arms against the United States of America. We never celebrate people who took up arms against the United States of America.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

12. “It has become very politically potent, and they're putting some really weird names on it like wokeness and woke and this, that, and the other. But, you know, you're doomed to repeat those mistakes if you don't learn from them, if you don't talk about them, and you don't teach those mistakes and how you can go better. I've given talks about the civil rights era and that bombing all the time. And it's interesting where I hear all the woke comments now because for years I would tell folks that that bombing woke the conscious of America. It woke the conscious of a president and a Congress because a civil rights act was passed less than a year later. The voting rights act was passed less than two years later. So there are things that happen in our history that I think galvanize people to say we're doing this wrong. And the Jim Crow South was wrong.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

13. “Yeah, I'm really stunned the way that they think that telling that history is running down America because we have progressed so much, we have accomplished so much in this world as Americans, as the United States, but we have a lot of flaws in our history. Every human being, every individual has their own flaws in their history that they don't really like to talk about, but sometimes they do and they learn from it. And I'm stunned, even when I prosecuted the cases years later, even the African-American community didn't know all of the history and all of the struggles that folks went through.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

14. “Now, I really, I may have been at the time, but I don't have that recollection now because, David, it was Miles in a sense of distance, but it was light years in terms of my world versus their world. And so, you know, again, you're not talking about an age of instant news on your phones and televisions. We had three TV stations that we got. And so it was very limited and it was very sheltered from me. My parents were sheltering me. They didn't want me and my sister to have to deal with that. The world was changing. And so I don't have a recollection of the bombing itself. I do have some recollection.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

15. “Yes, no question about it. I think that's a very big component of this and that Democrats in the past have often not done that enough. And the state parties have been neglected by the national parties to some extent. And it's been really hard to build. And it was hard for me to go into those areas because the first thing that folks want to know is, are you a Republican or Democrat? And you immediately get defined and if they had just been able to talk and listen a little bit, you really, I think, can find that common ground.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

16. “From Democratic friends a lot around the country. You know, why do people vote against their interest in Alabama? And I have to look at them and say, well, who are you to say what's in their interest? Because their financial interest is one thing, but they may make sacrifices based on their community and their religion. That's not in their financial well-being. And we do that, quite frankly, as human beings. We do that all the time. So don't look down on them. Let's just try to talk. Let's try to go where they are, figure this out, talk to them, and explain that Democrats are not the kind of political party that is going to rip away their community. And we, in fact, want to build on that community.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

17. “Across that way, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that that really captures a lot of the problems that we have seen where people in Alabama have felt that the party was looking down on them for a while and also taking care of others. I mean, make no mistake that the Democrats have been for civil rights and equal rights. And they feel threatened by that to some extent. And Trump was able to exploit that. And I don't think Democrats have really been able to capture that message to bring those folks. All those folks used to vote Democratic because the Democrats provided them jobs. They provided them security. They provided all that they needed. Democrats built that middle class and they did in Alabama. The Democrats put electricity in homes. The Democrat put water out there, brought rural hospitals to rural Alabama. But they've lost that. And one of the things I keep hearing.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

18. “And class. It's this, yeah, all those to go together than me. They're part of the same bucket that you run all like that when you're playing to that grievance and hate and that sort of thing all has to do with class. You know, George Wallace was able to tap into so many of Alabama's insecurities, you know, always considered to be second-class citizens, always, you know, poor, always trying to do different things. The only thing we really had going for us at the time was our steel mills and our football, college football. And we've had that going on for a long time. And Wallace was able to capture those resentments and play on those resentments. And it gave people an idea that he is speaking to us. And that's exactly what Trump's done, exactly what he dumped from the moment he came down that escalator.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

19. “Oh, sure. There's no question about it. I mean, a ugly populist streak is the best way for me to describe it. It wasn't just all race. It was all grievance and, you know, vitriol coming, but mainly grievance. It is somebody. You were always, George Wallace was always running against someone, always criticizing whether it was the media, whether it was in his words, those pointy-headed liberals. You know, it was always nothing but grievance and resentment that he tapped into with a very rural Alabama still of relatively poor Alabama. And I see Trump doing that consistently. I mean, I think he rose to the presidency in large measure on resentment and grievance.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

20. “Yeah, Bull Connor was that arch, racist police commissioner in Birmingham, Alabama in the early 60s that sicked fire hoses and dogs on peaceful demonstrators trying to advance civil rights.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

21. “Yeah, tell me about that. You know, I was young, so I really didn't have a clue. I knew George Wallace and I knew how fiery he was. And it was a states' rights kind of thing as far as I could tell. You know, my parents, my grandparents never indicated, I never saw hate in my household at all. But they lived and they grew up in a segregated world. And that's what they liked. That's what they thought was appropriate. And they tended to follow that. And, you know, the thing with my granddad, he never, ever really said or did anything to me that was offensive on race issues. And I just happened to remember it's just one of those little quirks that you remember from your childhood seeing a little bobblehead. It was really, it was before bobbleheads, but it was just a little thing that was that he had in the back of the car. And I asked him one time and he said, that was just a pop.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

22. “The South was solid. That's what it was. Although when you look back, David, it's really hard to say, you know, so many were Democrats in kind of a name only because you had such a divergence. The Republican Party really didn't exist in the state at the time. Not very much. And so you had everybody who was, you know, Democrats were on the one hand promoting civil rights and standing up for civil rights and on the other hand standing in a schoolhouse door. So it was hard to say it was the kind of party that we think about in terms of political parties. It's just that what everybody grew up with from Franklin D. Roosevelt own through Truman and even Kennedy, it was during the Civil Rights era that that started to change.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

23. “And we were the first to move in there. It was just an idyllic setting. But you know where I grew up in a Jim Crow South that was very protected. I mean, we were totally protected from what was going on in most of the civil rights movement until I got to integrate school.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

24. “He was a union route for a time. And then at some point back in probably the late 60s when I was in my teens, they saw in him some electrical things that got him into some management. But, you know, it was a union town. I mean, at the time, and now it's very few people that work out at U.S. Steel there. But, you know, family was just, we lived in a little suburb, one of those kind of Aussean Harriet type suburbs. And you're old enough to know what I'm talking about. I'm not sure the others will.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

25. “Yeah, all of my family. I lived in Fairfield, which was a huge U.S. steel town, the U.S. Steel Fairfield works. Just about everybody in my family, just about all of our neighbors had some connection to U.S. steel. So it was a really pretty blue-collar town at the time, although dad moved into some management at the time, you know, my grandparents, my grandfather still worked there. My paternal grandfather was a coal miner, an organizer for the coal miners.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

26. “Well, thank you. Look, David, this is great. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. It's an extraordinary opportunity for me and also to do this podcast. So thanks very much.”

    2022-10-06 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 506 — Doug Jones · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source