YouSaid · the spoken record

Dr Anjana Khatwa

lines on the record: 27
first: 2025-11-21
most recent: 2025-11-21
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“There is because I'm sure your mum feels like this when you look at your rocks or any kind of pebble or stone that you've picked up, you will have imbued it with the memory of that moment. And I think that is an incredible thing to have in your hand, isn't it? Because I think we do see other parts of the natural world like trees or plants or birds. They can seem quite ephemeral sometimes and they can seem quite transient. But the rocks, the rocks are always there. They have a solidity to them that I don't think any other part of the natural world does. And they are simply beautiful to look at.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One that started off this whole journey I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you about rocks if it wasn't for this piece of basal I picked up in Kenya, and I think that's the power that rocks have because they are such great holders of history and deep time, whether we're talking geologically or whether we're talking personally, I think it just starts with that simple touch”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think it's quite simple, really. I think it's either reaching out and holding the rock that you picked up last summer when you went on a walk on the beach or along the river. And you thought, oh, I like that, Pebble, I'll pick that up. And I think it's time to just reach out and touch that rock that has that memory that you hold quite dear to yourself. Or it's about taking a walk in anywhere actually. It can be in the town that you live in or it can be in a really beautiful natural space, like close to me is the Jurassic coast. And I think it's about opening your heart and your mind and having a very sensual sensory experience of what that rock is giving you. And I think it just starts with a touch, actually. And obviously I have a house littered with rocks, as you can see. One of the rocks that I reach for most often is this one here. This is a piece of basalt and I picked it up when I was 13 years old.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of position to go in and tell stories however and whenever I would like to. I think positionality in terms of retelling stories from any culture is really vital. It's not something I believe that a lot of British writers do, perhaps because they don't know how or they're a bit terrified of doing that. I'm not quite sure, but for me it was vital because what it does is it sets the tone of the book in a position of equity. And the book opens with a poem from a Native American professor. And again, I wanted that to center the voices of indigenous people because I don't believe that Indigenous peoples across the world have ever been voiceless or it's just the fact that we've never stopped to listen to their stories. We've never stopped to give their story space. And that's absolutely what I wanted to do throughout the book.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Equity. And so writing that statement of positionality was vital for the reader to understand that although I am from a South Asian background and I do come from a background that has experienced the violence of colonialism, I wanted the reader to understand that, you know, actually I have that privilege of being in the West and that does not excuse my”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The statement of positionality was my choice, and that comes from a position where as a woman of color, and particularly a woman of colour living in the West and being educated in a Western kind of society, I was very aware of the privilege that I had coming into a space to retell stories from indigenous people. And as someone who is kind of an expert on inclusion and diversity, I felt it was absolutely necessary to put that privilege that I held up front and centre and not to be seen in a way that I was extracting or exploiting knowledge and histories from indigenous people and also the rocks themselves. It's funny, isn't it? Because when we talk about extraction and exploitation, this is what makes geology as a science. This is what geology is grounded in. And I wanted to especially start the book off from a point of”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Be there to be exploited, but also to be subjugated. And what I found at the end of this bit of research about that period of when he was commissioning the Victoria Memorial was that the Macrana marble actually won over the European marble. And so it was this like moment of, well, it's actually science. It's actually geology. The rock spoke for itself. And, you know, that's just one example of some of the colonial violence and those type of subjugating attitudes that I picked out in order to illustrate how rock and minerals and resources are often used to subjugate not just nature itself but also people.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“White, it's sparkling, you know, and I held a sample of it in my hand that another geologist gave to me. He was like holding a clutch of diamonds. It was so beautiful. And when I started to research into some of the uses of Macron and marble, particularly during British colonial times in India, you know, I came across this really bizarre story that, you know, Lord Curzon, who was Viceroy of India at the time, he was quite keen to build a memorial to Queen Victoria. and he wanted to use European marbles because he thought they were superior frankly to the Indian rocks. And what turned out is that he tasked the Indian geological survey to conduct tests, you know, test the Indian marble against the European marble because he believed that the European marble was superior. And I think that goes back into those very difficult colonial histories of people and landscape to”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I actually think a rather personal story to me actually when you bring that up. And I'm thinking of the Taj Mahal in India because the Taj Mahal is built from a rock called the Makrana marble, which is sourced from quarries in Rajasthan. And my heritage, although my parents are from Kenya, my ancestral heritage is from Rajasthan in India. And when I was...”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Enigmatic stories about a water spirit called Putini, whose fleeing and angry husband because he's whisked away his wife, and each time he stops, you know, the story is an oral history map of where the Maudi can actually locate the greenstones. It's utterly stunning.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of loss this immense tragedy that these ancestral lands that held so much value and sacred worship for the Lakota has been taken away from them. So some of the stories that explore are very much grounded in the fact that rocks and land are at the central core of certain belief systems. And then in other places, the rocks allow for the stories and the movement of people to be traced back several thousand years. So if we go to Autearoa in New Zealand, the presence of the sacred greenstone known as Ponamu occurs all the way along the western coast of Twiponamu, south island, and the beautiful story of how that was discovered by the Maudi is retold in one of, well, perhaps one of the most...”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To the Lakota, they saw it as the heart of everything that is. And in their language, it's Pahasapa. And it's the place where the universe, where their world was created, where humankind was born from. And when we think about that particular landscape, which is a granitic peak, it's where magma has risen up into the earth's crust. It's intruded into those upper rock layers. It's become trapped and then cooled to form these huge granite peaks. What it also brought with it was gold. And in the history of the Lakota, their lands were seized by the US federal government because of the gold. And it still exists like that today. And when we think of six grandfathers mountain in its current state, it's actually known as Mount Rushmore with the president's heads carved into the mountain. So within that story is this immense sense.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, Stonehenge is a really beautiful example because it represents that coming together of the land, the landscape that these ancient people lived in and the celestial sphere. And they wanted to mirror that connection there. And as I've kind of spoken with and consulted with indigenous people from across the world, I've been struck by how unified our feelings and our connection with landscapes and rock are. And one group in particular, the stories from the Lakota in South Dakota, in the United States, that was a really beautiful but tragic story because they were the ancestral custodians of the landscape and around the Black Hills in South Dakota. They'd lived there for thousands of years. And in fact, there is a granitic peak within the Black Hills that's known as six grandfathers mountain. That was incredibly sacred.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“and force and scope that it takes to form these ancient beings, then I think something in your heart begins to shift, you think actually yes, it has taken a very, very long time, immense time scales, immense forces, and that means that it deserves our respect, or at least I believe it deserves our respect. And I think through linking that kind of immense scale of deep time with the forces that it takes to create the rocks, I think if we can create a shift in our heart and our mind to emotionally connect with them, to understand their value, I think that's when that journey begins to start.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And this granite in particular, which is from Bodmin Moor, the magma plume that got trapped in this magma chamber, took about two to three million years to cool down. And as it cooled down, the minerals within that semi molten mass separated out and as they separated they cooled to form this beautiful crystalline structure. For us to realize that rocks like granite, it takes immense planetary forces for them to be formed, that gives us a sense of gravitas, it gives us a sense of awe and wonder that actually we as humanity we can't recreate. We can't grow these rocks, we can't manufacture them, and we can create some kind of modified version of them, but they're never like the real thing. And I think once we begin to reach out and understand the origins of these rocks and realize the immense time.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it all starts with seeking an emotion perhaps the most unifying emotion that we have on the planet with each other and that's love. And I wanted to show you this rock because I think it does start from a joy and a passion for recognizing the value that these ancient beings give us. I'm holding a piece of granite in my hand and it's probably one of the most commonly used building stones across the UK. And indeed the world actually, granite is an igneous rock. You can see it's sparkling with all sorts of different minerals. Once we realise that actually rocks are a very fineite resource, then I think we begin to look at them in a far more careful way. So this granite formed from a magma plume that intruded that rose up from the very depths of the mantle, breached the Earth's crust, and then got trapped in a magma chamber. And this all happened in Cornwall.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's very difficult to extract these minerals and the impact on the natural environment is rather significant. So where would we be if we didn't have all of those minerals? And I think what I'm asking readers to perhaps step into is a world of empathy and ethical thinking, like if we are going to dig up the ground and destroy a part of the natural world to extract that mineral, can it be done for a purpose that furthers our life in a more sustainable way?”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“of climate warming, and I think all the way through the book I try to really frame our dependency, economic dependency on rocks like coal. And I think that relationship is very, very complex because we still do need geological and mineral resources for the lives that we lead today from petroleum, so crude oil all the way through to coal and lithium. We do need those minerals and we do need those geological resources. And I think what we have to ask ourselves is how much are we willing to wound the earth in order to live in the lifestyles that we're used to? And I think it's a question that I've really struggled with, if I'm honest. You know, I'm speaking to you using a computer with all of the minerals that have been sourced, you know, from very difficult places on earth.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, in my hand I'm holding perhaps the greatest protagonist of all it's a piece of coal, and this is a piece of coal that I picked up in Shropshire at Bliss Village, which I speak about in the book from Ironbridge Gorge. And Iron Bridge Gorge was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution. And within the kind of geological and environment there, we had the Holy Trinity of Rocks. We had limestone. We had iron ore, and we had coal. And what they're all used for. So coal, as we know, is a fuel source. It was used to fuel the forges of fire that would have been used in the furnaces where iron ore was melted down. And what's interesting is that the limestone was used in order to purify the process of melting the iron ore. When we think about kind of the contemporary effects of two hundred years or so of burning coal at an industrial level, we know where that's led now. We're dealing with the impact.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“layer of meaning and understanding and grounding with who you are and where you are. And I think the minute we begin to layer these stories one upon the other, the scientific, traditional knowledge, but also your own experience, I think it brings rocks to life in a way that we've never thought of.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it's just a simple case of going out and actually beginning to open your eyes as to the rocks around you. They exist everywhere. They can be in a paving slab in your local town. Or it could be a rock up on your bookshelf that you collected on a holiday last year. And the most remarkable thing is that that's your own story. That's your experience. And for me, that is just as valid as my own experience of, for example, picking up this rock that I collected from southern Kenya when I was a teenager. And that moment when you picked up that rock and you gave it a memory and it gave you a memory, I think that's incredibly powerful. And that helps us in terms of our connection with the geological world. And then if you're so minded, you can then go away and explore the scientific origin of how it was created. Because what that then does is it adds on that additional.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's all about sensing that connection and that grounding with what the rocks of meant over time, and for some people they have looked at landscapes and rocks and viewed them as their ancestors, and particularly indigenous peoples who've lived in spaces for tens of thousands of years. They built relationships with peaks of granite or mountains or even erupting volcanoes. And what's happened over time is that they've looked at the natural landscape and they've looked at the rocks as the story keepers of their own memories and their experiences and through imbuing their physical presence of the rocks within the landscape with their stories, their emotions, their feelings of frustration or despair, or even love for each other, the rocks imbue the spirit of that meaning that they've given them. And I think in that way for all of these...”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, because when I hold a rock, I guess I'm enacting, you know, and here is a silt stone from Cornwall, Buzzcastle in Cornwall. When I'm holding a rock in my hand like this, I'm enacting an action that people have been doing for tens of thousands of years, particularly in indigenous communities. And when we look back at those cultures, as you say, you've been...”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Has this incredible chevron texture to it. When I'm holding this rock in my hand, if I told you I was holding the moment when a mountain was born, then suddenly something stirs in your heart and you want to know more about it. And I think that's what rocks mean to me on a very personal emotional level. I see them as these ancient story keepers of time. They hold our memories. They hold our experiences, but they also hold extraordinary moments of planetary change that have happened on Earth.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My hand, which is a green schist from Norway, and I think this rock has an incredible story that if we dig deeper and we explore it, it has a chance to transform the way we think about the world and where it comes from. I think when we think about the natural world, perhaps the reason why rocks aren't regarded as part of that kind of natural cyclicity of life is because they need additional knowledge and understanding to really appreciate the benefits and the value they give us, not just economically, but also spiritually as well. And I think for me, when I hold rocks like this, this in my hand, this green schist, if I was going to get very technical and scientific and tell you about the origins of this rock, I think I'd lose you immediately. But the minute I tell you that, you know, this green schist, which is green in color,”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, it's, I think rocks are seen as these kind of inaccessible parts of the natural world because they don't change at timescales that we can imagine. I mean, when you look at the season now, you're walking through the woods, it's autumn. You can sense that the trees are undergoing a change. The leaves have turned from green to orange, you know, to red. So there is a visible experience, a visceral experience of seasonality with the rest of nature. Birds migrate. you know, other animals will hibernate with rocks. They don't have that. They are always there. They seem the same. They have a constancy that seems to become rather, you know, ineffective in terms of the way we engage with them. I really see rocks as part of the natural world because their existence allows everything to be possible for life on Earth to exist. And I'm holding this rock in.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think geology has a real image problem if I'm being honest. I think people really struggle to engage with rocks are and what they mean to our lives. And I think partly that's the way we've communicated the science to people. But also rocks are almost invisible in front of our own eyes. You know, we exist in a world which wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the rocks. But they're ubiquitous and they're so inanimate to some people. They form this backdrop to our lives. And I think when I started off, you know, on this journey of centering rocks within my professional and my personal life, people were naturally confused because I think they didn't really understand what benefit it would bring to my life, what journey would I go on, what kind of job would I have? And I think the more I've kind of spent in this space professionally about 25 years, I found that actually they have affected our lives.”
2025-11-21 · Intelligence Squared · What Stories Are Written in The Rock Beneath Us? With Dr Anjana Khatwa · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT