YouSaid · the spoken record

Ed Catmull

lines on the record: 46
first: 2023-12-05
most recent: 2023-12-05
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Our CEO and chairman of the board is Jeff Berman. Masters of Scale was created by June Cohen and Darren Triff. Special thanks to Jodine Dorsay, Alfonso Bravo, Tim Cronin, Erica Flynn, Sarah Tartar, Kitty Blazing, Mariel Karecker, Janime Ezekena, Colin Howarth, Brandon Klein, Samioputa, Kelsey C ⁇ zon, Louisa Veles, Nikki Williams, and Justin Winslow. Visit masterscale.com to find the transcript for this episode and to subscribe to our email newsletter.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm Reid Hoffman. Thank you for listening. Masters of scale is a weight what original. Our executive producer is Chris MacLeod. Our producers are Chris Gautier, Adam Skeuse, Alex Morris, Tucker Logerski, and Masha Makotunina. Our editor at large is Bob Saffian. Our music director is Ryan Holliday. Original music and sound design by Eduardo Rivera. Ryan Holliday, Hayes Holiday, and Nate Kinsella. Audio editing by Keith J. Nelson, Stephen Davies, Stephen Wells, Andrew Nalt, and Liam Jenkins. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli and Brian Pugh.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Your organization scales, there's a tendency for silos to form, visions to narrow in scope, and layers of management to pile up. But that's precisely why you need to instill a willingness to constantly reassess and retool your creative process. It will help you cut through all these layers, short circuit, creative blocks, and clear bottlenecks. You'll just need to accept one thing.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The conventional move would have been to merge those different production units to save overhead. But Ed knew it was incalculable value in preserving the different creative approaches of Disney, Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm, and others, while still encouraging them to reach out to each other for help”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In 2006, Disney acquired Pixar for seven point four billion dollars and remained president of Pixar and also became president of Walt Disney Animation Studios. It was one of the many title changes across management that signaled a closer merging of Disney and Pixar, including Steve Jobs taking a place on the Disney Board of Directors. There was a clause in the deal guaranteeing that Pixar remain a separate entity. Ed believed this stipulation was vital in preserving Pixar's dynamic approach to creativity, although with some important guidelines”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This will also make for an environment in which people will proactively identify problems. Just as importantly, people won't be afraid to give input on your decisions. Of course, owning the problem is just part of the challenge. You need to be able to act quickly to solve it. Asked Ed, how to do this as an organization scales What are some of the ways that you tried to keep the organization and the leadership and the problem solving nimble to that next problem and realizing the game would be constantly changing?”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Bottlenecks can be hard to spot, especially as you scale, but it's important that you do spot them and resolve them. They're a sign that there's a deeper problem with the processes you've established in your company. Some of these will be conscious processes that you set up for a very good reason, but have now outlived their usefulness. Others will be things you do unconsciously that have become an unnoticed part of your culture. Either way, once you identify them, you need to change them. But be aware, the better you get at identifying bottlenecks, the more you'll spot something Ed knows full well.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of the things that I think is part of the amazing story about what you led at Pixar is how to systematize an environment where you have creative solution to unknown problems as you're encountering them. So Brain Trust is one of the things. What are the other things that then made that scale and repeat process with Pixar?”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Notice how at the root of all of these principles is the drive to share honest and constructive opinion while also making sure people still feel secure in their roles. This is something to keep front of mind as you iterate on your creative process. You want to encourage candid feedback in order to learn and get better, but you need to make sure that feedback is given with compassion. If your organization has a culture of aggressively shooting down imperfect ideas, then people will be less likely to give voice to their thoughts. This will have a chilling effect on your team's ability to learn. Be bold and experiment. I asked Ed to go into more detail about the challenges pixar faced when it came to scaling the creative process.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Brain trust roots lay in the original creative team behind Toy Story, and initially it was made up of those specific people. But keeping it that way would have been impractical as Pixar scaled. So instead, the Brain Trust became a method rather than a group. It became a way of sharing candid and objective criticism with directors and their teams every few months during a production. Over the years, the precise way the Brain Trust operates has changed, but some basic principles have emerged.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The creative team behind Toy Story couldn't simultaneously take the lead on Toy Story two, a bug's life and the other projects in development. So Ed developed a method for making that team's creative excellence available to the rest of the company. That's not to say production on Toy Story two went smoothly, far from it. You can learn the fascinating details from Ed's book Creativity Inc. What I want to focus on here is how Ed and his team iterated on what the Brain Trust was and how it operated as Pixar grew and faced new challenges. One example is the composition of the Brain Trust.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Toy Story was a creative triumph, and investors flocked to Pixar stock. The listing raised $140 million for Pixar and beat Netscape as the biggest IPO that year. Steve had been right about the appetite for Pixar stock after the release of Toy Story. He was also right about something else.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Steve knew that for the creative magic of Pixar to continue to work it needed to be on an equal footing with Disney, both creatively and financially.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Steve Jobs also predicted that a successful IPO would mean a change in the relationship for Pixar with Disney and its then CEO, Michael Eisner.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is one of the key advantages of being prepared to constantly revise your creative processes. Your team knows that the one reliable constant is change. This will make them more resilient and adaptive when crisis hits. Ed and his team sprinted to overhaul Toy Story.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ed declined the offer, knowing that inviting more help from Disney would dilute the dynamic, if unorthodox, creative process at Bixar Ed also knew that this crisis point could actually fuel rather than deflate his team.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And his team were determined to hew their vision. They spent over a year storyboarding the new film, but through those early drafts they also took feedback from Disney and the story and characters began to drift away from Pixar's original vision. The creative crisis came to a head when they showed the first version of the movie to Disney Executs.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Had its creative template set for the film and began developing a story. It would revolve around a toy cowboy named Woody, who becomes jealous when his owner gets a new toy named Buzz Lightyear. Disney Greenlit the concept, but Ed and his team still had to manage Disney's expectations.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Had faith that the dynamic, collaborative environment he'd built a Pixar would let them succeed, but he also realized they needed to set some constraints.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was much more writing on the film's success than Ed's ambition to make a feature film. Pixar was a loss making enterprise. Steve Jobs had kept it alive through numerous cash injections. Steve was now expressing frustration at the situation. So failing now could mean the end for Steve's support, and by extension the end of Pixar.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Notice how Ed quickly overcame his initial reluctance to take on the making of a feature film soon. It's easy to internalize arbitrary limits and restrictions that hold us back. You need to be able to quickly identify those self imposed constraints and throw them aside. So in nineteen ninety one, Pixar and Disney struck a new deal. Disney would fund three Pixar movies, which Disney would distribute and own. Now there was the simple task of making the film.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Part of Ed's long term plan was to keep making short films along with commercials to showcase the technical and creative advances that Pixar was spearheading. In nineteen eighty six, Pixar released the animated short film Luxo Jr. It featured the desk lamp that would go on to become the company's mascot. It was also the first 3D animated computer film to be nominated for an Oscar. Then nineteen eighty eight's Tin Toy won an Academy Award for Best Animated Short Film. This caught the attention of Pixar's partners at Disney.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Partnership to supply software to Disney was a creative success. However, Pixar's main focus at the time was selling hardware, namely its specialist, Pixar Imaging Computer. With an initial price tag of one hundred twenty two thousand dollars, the low volume of sales wasn't enough to keep Pixar afloat.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Roy had recently rejoined the Disney Company as vice chairman. Disney's output was creatively stagnating and its films were doing poorly. Roy was determined to inject some dynamism back into the family business.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In February 1986, Steve Jobs paid five million dollars to buy Lucasfilm's computer graphics division of forty or so staff and establish it under a new name, Pixar. It bent Ed and his team were financially secure for now. The newly established Pixar now desperately needed clients. It didn't take long for one of the biggest names in the business to come knocking.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Back with Pixar co founder, Ed Catmull, on how to keep the creativity flowing. Before the break, we heard how Ed found himself in the midst of a brutal year. Although his computer division at Lucasfilm was making huge strides in technology, it wasn't making money for its parent company. So George Lucas made the decision to spin off Ed's division. Ed was desperate to find a buyer who would realize the potential of what his team was doing and also let them preserve their dynamic creative environment.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Listeners, Bob, here, if you listen to rapid response on Masters of Scale, you may be missing half the show because every Friday we release a second rapid response exclusively in the rapid response feed. The guess and topics are just as compelling and timely from Ford CEO to NASA's administrator to the lessons from the Devilware's Prada. It takes about ten seconds to find just search rapid response wherever you listen to podcasts and hit follow to make sure you never miss an episode. I hope to see you there.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ed was desperate not only to find a buyer, but a buyer who would understand and preserve the dynamic approach to creativity that Ed had built. It turns out that just such a buyer was currently on the lookout for new opportunities, having recently parted ways with a computer company he'd founded. The company's name was Apple and that buyer was Steve Jobs. We'll hear that story and more after the break.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ed brought this collaborative approach to his work at Lucasfilm. He and his team set about applying increasingly powerful computer technology to special effects. They named it the Pixar Image Computer. However, while George shared, Ed's enthusiasm for using computers and movie making, he didn't share Ed's ambition to create a full length computer-animated movie. Meanwhile, Lucasfilm was put under financial strain by George's nineteen eighty three divorce settlement. Although Ed's computer graphics division was making huge strides in technology, it wasn't making money for its parent company. So George made the decision to spin it off.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, having read creativity, Inc., I think part of the model that I came away from that was that part of the goodness of the mindset of being half right and half wrong is it's dynamic. It's focused on learning. It's focused on iterating to the next play. I presume that's kind of what you mean here by that principle guiding you through the life about being half right and half wrong.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“George Lucas had intently followed Ed's work at New York Tech. Like Ed, George was frustrated at how slowly the film industry was adopting computer technology. So in nineteen seventy nine, George recruited Ed to establish and run Lucasfilm's computer division. It was another opportunity for Ed to build a creative, dynamic environment from the ground up. Again, he planned to build on what he had learned at graduate school and New York Tech.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of those things was catapulting the bar from movie special effects, the spectacle of lightsabers and space battles had audiences thirsting for more immersive mind blowing sequences. To realize his vision, Director George Lucas had set up his own special effects division industrial, light and magic or ILM.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Many times being open is much better than being closed because what gives you your competitive advantage is not your hidden secret thing. It's the fact that you're in motion with a great team. Creative people are attracted to places where they can innovate. Publishing their cutting-edge animation techniques send out a clear signal that Ed was building an environment that made creativity its top priority.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In nineteen seventy four, Ed earned his doctorate in computer science. Within a year he took on the role of director at the newly created computer graphics lab. This was at the New York Institute of Technology, also known as New York Tech. Ed set about building his own creative environment. He took inspiration from his free wheeling graduate school, but he also added his own elements.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ivan Sutherland understood that no matter how revolutionary your scale idea is, you need a path to get there. The answer is largely through small iterative steps. You need to build your creative environment around this process That graduate course gave Ed not just an ambition, but a guiding principle by which to achieve it.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“These are foundational works in the history of computer animation, and they only came about because Ed and Fred were prepared to throw out the existing animation software available to them and then create their own. One of the first things I look at when considering an investment is whether the founders are rejecting the status quo. I've been asked the fun projects in Ed and Fred's class, I'd have been drawn to the two students who were breaking out of the constraints of the tools available to them. Because when you see someone asking the question, why this way it signals a willingness to create your own rules. This willingness is at the core of entrepreneurial success. Graduate work brought him back to his first love animation. It inspired him to set a new goal to someday create a full length computer animated feature film.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You can see the results for yourself by searching for a computer animated hand by Ed Catmull on YouTube. The video also contains the work of a fellow grad student of Eds, Fred Park.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This environment was radically different to what you would normally expect of a graduate class. The course leaders had tossed out the very notion of a curriculum, partly because the field was so new, but also because they knew that this was the best way to stimulate the creativity of their students. It was soon helping to push the boundaries of this new technology.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“New area of computer graphics was a dynamic combination of Ed's passions, animation, science, and technology. And the way the classes were taught reflected this, with students largely left to create their own projects and curriculum.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's tempting to take a brief pause and consider an alternative universe in which I'm speaking with Ed Catmull, pioneer of AI rather than pioneer of animation. There are deep parallels between the huge advances in computing underway at this point in Ed's story and the seismic impacts of the current AI revolution. Like AI, the computational wave that Ed was immersing himself in was going to inform sweeping changes in technology, industry, and society. And like AI, it was impossible for anyone to predict what these changes would be. People were feeling their way through the possibilities and potentialities of the computer revolution. For Ed, one of these roots proved especially tantalizing. Soon another unplanned encounter changed Ed's destiny.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In 1969, Ed graduated with two degrees, one in physics, and the other in computer science. He then doubled down on computing as his path.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Throughout his childhood, Ed dove deep into both these passions, becoming a skilled artist while pursuing his scientific curiosity. While he was studying for his bachelor's in physics at the University of Utah, Ed found himself drawn to another cutting edge field.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“TV show that had Ed glued to the sitting room floor of his family home in Salt Lake City was The Wonderful World of Disney. The more I'd watch Walt reveal the tricks in the Magic Kingdom spellbook, the more enthralled he became. Walt wasn't the only great mind of the twentieth century to capture Ed's imagination.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I wanted to talk to Ed Cotmull about this because he literally wrote the book on creating a dynamic and sustainable creative culture. Creativity Inc. has become a foundational text on how to presume dynamism throughout an organization. Ed was an early pioneer of computer graphics and went on to co found celebrated animation studio Pixar, which counts Toy Story, The Incredibles, an Elemental among their many beloved hit movies. In his role as president of Walt Disney Animation Studios, his push to reinvigorate the creative process resulted in a string of successes, including frozen and zootopia.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Once you adapt to the new rules of the game and accept they'll keep on changing, you can even have fun and start getting creative. As a leader, you need to be ready to do more than adapt to new ways of playing the game. You need to embrace them and then come up with your own rules in response. Accepting that the rules you play by need to be constantly tweaked, hacked, or reinvented opens you up to new ways of doing things. Instilling this attitude throughout your organization will help you be boldly differential in your experimentation.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In short, your patience is going to be tested. But imagine you manage to push through this initial frustration. Perhaps alter your goal. Instead of teaching a kid chess, you're going to use the pieces and the board to engage with them on their terms.”
2023-12-05 · Masters of Scale · Pixar’s Ed Catmull: Throw out your rules · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT