YouSaid · the spoken record

Ellen Pao

lines on the record: 141
first: 2017-10-02
most recent: 2017-10-02
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I don't know. I think, like, you know, I'm just trying to do the right thing. I don't think people really. You are actually very thin.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's her top. Like, you know what I mean? And then you're like, they don't even understand, it doesn't even occur to them. And then you have to be mad to get their attention. And that does work when you're mad at them. And that's a tiring. It's exhausting. So last question, what is the thing you want?”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So hard to change people. Mostly it's that they, they're so not easy to pin down, I guess, because they are nice, right? So it's not like you're dealing with just flat out assholes. You're lying to you.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's so many good things about tech. There's so many awesome products, and there's so many things that can change the world. I want to make sure that people stayed in it, that they don't take a look at it, see it's pretty toxic, and maybe I should go do something else, right? We need people to come in and we need people to succeed. And I'm hoping to help them by understanding what's going on around them, by giving them some tips, and then by showing the positive side of it.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, she wrote fast. She didn't have time. But she went through. Yeah. Like what she wants through. Yeah, yeah, that's true. True. That would be Chris, too. But I think.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Kind of unsmeared version And I also wanted to make people feel positive about tech. There's so many good things about tech.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What he just felt like taking. Oh, God, no. About myself for so many pages. No, that was not the goal. I think a lot of it was there were so many people who were so supportive and then they connected with different parts of my story and I wanted to just give them the whole”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They don't have to be nice, we do like that. You know what I mean? Like, I know it sounds unfair and stuff like that. So, last question. So what is your goal with this book? Do you have a goal? I just felt like typing.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People are like, oh, My home, this is my community. That feels a little bit harder, and when the kids are, you know, some kids are probably like 14, 16 hormone college role, like to have that in your community base doesn't feel good.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, also I think a lot of times people get exhausted and are in a perpetual state of rage and it creates intolerance too. You know what I mean? Like that stuff at Berkeley. I'm like, just let the guy talk. I know he's gross, but let's just, I feel a lot.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Get out And I think it also has activated a lot of people where they feel like, oh, I just can't be quiet anymore because look what happens. Right.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it's a huge problem, and it's making people who otherwise would be quiet speak up, but in some ways it is good. Like you hear that person, you fire them, right? They're out.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But it's different. Like, you feel a lot more control to feel like you Like. Right, and do worry because of the larger culture with Trump and the White House and the stuff that spews out of his Twitter stream every moment.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's not, but it's different. Like, you feel a lot more control. Like, to feel like you have control over your story if you're going to do and say something sensitive. So I think that makes a huge difference. And I think, and I'm hopeful, but I agree with you, like there are not indications that it's changing. Like we have a ton of work to do. We have just changed the nature of people believing the problem or not.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It doesn't seem to be. I think there's still a lot of cleanup. I mean, this is, as you said, it is not. They may be the worst potentially, but it is there are many other companies that have been in this toxic culture. I think So, I think that gives me hope that people will actually make the changes.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I don't think so. I think then you saw SoFi, and then you saw all these other companies, and it's just been a kind of a Storm of when does that stop? Do you imagine that?”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, really in a lot of ways. Because I think to me Susan Fowler. Yes, Susan Fowler, of course. But I think I wrote a piece called thing, Susan Fowler. But I think it's not just that it's that people can't look away.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Have different investors, you have different founders, you'd have different people succeeding instead of only white men are getting the money, so only white men succeed, and then that just reinforces, oh, only white men should be getting money.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and you don't feel good about being in the company with a harasser or investing in the firm with a harasser. And it's embarrassing. But I think if you gave money to people and they were able to invest it in the best companies and the best entrepreneurs and the best founders without all this bias hanging over them, you'd have a different world”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But it's I mean, I would just take a ton of money. Like, I think if you could get I don't know, maybe even just like. $25 billion And give it to the smartest. People of color, women of color, women to invest. It would change the landscape. It's not going to happen. The LPs, I don't know where they are, but they've been completely silent on these issues. I've heard of one or two who have taken issue with the sexual harassment because as you say, that's a much easier.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What did it do? Nothing. Exactly. It did absolutely nothing. It's what it's another tepid diversity initiative that makes people feel good about themselves but accomplishes nothing.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're not going to say, oh, we're going to kick you out, but when they state that they want to make their teams diverse and inclusive, they are signing up to participate in a set of workshops that we have in kind of sharing information and in working with us on our different initiatives to make sure that they understand how do you write a code of conduct, how do you form your values, what would you be thinking about as you look for an investor and to have this holistic view and comprehensive view of what What inclusion means”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Decades. Decades, yeah, really, and it does seem like it's changing. Like, I get, you know, we hear from venture capital firms that are interested in adopting our founders commitment where founders commit to Making their companies diverse and inclusive Before we will actually invest in them and they commit to having impact and making sure that they're impacting.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I am Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer at the Kpor Center, which is affiliated nonprofit foundation. And then I also am a venture partner at Kpore Capital. So I work with entrepreneurs, with founders, with CEOs on making their companies diverse and inclusive. And then I also look at investments.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I think that next generation is much more aware. I'm hoping that people telling their stories makes them even more aware so that, you know, they are looking for the right companies to join. And it's these companies that are people who are interested in diversity and inclusion, who are listening and who are changing and who are not taking the old kind of admissions committee model of cultural fit. And do I want to be on a plane with you for 24 hours in a row as their guides and they're joining these other companies that are using technology to make blind admissions, who are using technology to make sure that performance reviews are fair and just adopting an experimenting to try to make things better.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think a big part of it is, I hope this next generation of workers, and I believe they are much more informed. They're much like, you know, like Tracy was. Maybe 26 or 28 when she was 26 when she created a database of a GitHub repository for where are people in terms of their engineering teams. Demographics, right? So 26, I was like, totally clueless. I had no idea what was going on. I thought everything was meritocratic and I was like working my hardest to get my way up.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't know. I think it's like, how do you pick which is a bigger problem? And then I think The discrimination also ties to people who discriminate against women are also likely to be discriminating against people based on race and age and all different types of things because they are tied to the person that looks exactly like them. So I don't know. It's all ugly.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's the thing. Right. And why don't you just control yourself? Yeah. And so, why are all these women complaining? It just means we're never going to hire women. Right.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, whatever. Which are like more around the gender discrimination kind of thing. That's the thing I worry about. The people like, oh, we're going to fix the sexual harassment issue, which I think is probably easier to fix than the other part and ignore what I think is the more problematic issue.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. So your suit with Klanor was about gender scrutiny, but sexual harassment has gotten more of the focus. And I do think sexual harassment is pervasive, but less of a problem than gender discrimination. You know what I mean? Because I think they do go hand in hand and they're part of the same toxic tree. But sexual harassment, a lot of people can go, oh, no, no, no. Like a lot of men will do not like this, do not want this to happen in their company, et cetera. And most of the really problematic people are pattern. They do it in a patterned way. Most of the more annoying sexual management of these microaggressions like smile more, you should smile more or don't you look pretty, which are like the”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I actually don't believe there's a problem. It's partly, I don't know how to fix a problem, so I want to pretend I'd rather talk about something else that's more exciting than something that's going to bring me down. Right.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Under siege, and then they don't know what to do. Like they want to solve the problem, but they actually don't want to do the work, so they just want it to go away. And why do you keep bringing it up? Hey, we fired the sky already. Why aren't you happy with that? Because you replaced him with somebody who looks just like him, right? That's why, because you are setting yourself up for that same problem. Why don't you just fix it? So I think it's like partly.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, really? Yeah. I'm not friends with those people. Yeah. Yeah, but they do. I believe you. I think part of it is, I think you could see it in their eyes too. Yeah, they feel a little bit like”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then we do a lot of evangelism, advocacy, but the core things are working with the CEOs. And then we found great CEOs who are interested and excited and that we think are leaders in tech. So, you know, Dustin Moscovici, Jack Conti, people who we think are doing great things and also that other people will follow. Right. So when they're successful, we can be advocates for diversity and inclusion and then get that kind of tech flywheel going.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If he doesn't have one, then somebody Could happen right, right? Because something someone has to give away something essentially. So, what else do you do at project include? Those are the kind of things you're trying to do. Those are the kind of things.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like, if he's not happy that it's all white men on the board, then he needs to get off. He needs to step off and bring somebody. Hell's on his team, or somebody, you know, if he doesn't have one, then somebody else. Like, you know, they want it all the ways and they're not willing to actually do the hard work to make it happen. Right, right.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, it was interesting. I was talking to somebody whose board members were like, oh, you know, we need to bring more diversity to the board and who's kind of talking to me about it. And I'm like, then you need to tell him that he needs to get off the board.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's definitely a pipeline issue, but I think more people would come into it if there was a better place to go, there were more role models. You could see a path in these companies, but also there is a better pipeline than actually gets hired. You're not looking hard enough and you're not actually sure.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. And in most cases, you're like raising the bar to prevent that person from coming on board. And it's, and I think it's toxic. And then I think the second thing is I do think people really want to believe that tech is a meritocracy and they are meritocratic. And then when you call out like, well, why do you have no women in your venture capital firm, they become very defensive? And then they come up with all these reasons. Can't find them”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I know, exactly. But what's interesting is the word standards never comes up except when it has to do with putting a woman on a board or whatever. And I'm like, I don't think you have standards for the group you got there now.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and you have to lower the bar to bring them in. Like people use kind of this weird language to explain it because they don't actually want to say, I think women are not as good as men or I think black people are not as good as white men.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think there are two things going on. One, I think there is a set of people that we were talking about earlier, this group of people who actually think that women and maybe black people and maybe Latinx people and maybe, you know, other groups of people are actually not equal. And then they pull and they cherry pick signs.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, right. Because of lots of reasons. And also, there's this idea of fit. What's really hard about this all, I think, if I really have to think about it, is that especially in tech, they think so well of themselves and they're actually nicer people. It's not like a Wall Street person with a stripper. Like, that's easy. Like, okay, I get you pretty quickly or whatever, any of those industries that are well known for more sort of dude behavior, bad dude behavior, not dude behavior. But it's, you know, and they use the term tech bro, which is probably slightly unfair to use, but it does seem to fit a lot of people, but that it's they don't feel that it's them. Like it's not, they're like nice people, and yet the same results happen, right? And then they don't want to face the fact that maybe they're not, like, they don't ever want to admit that perhaps they still have the same problem, which is a hard problem to deal with. Like in gender, I don't think they purposely don't want great tech skills.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of the women on project includes Laura Gomez has a product where it helps with hiring using data and analytics and she was telling the story about this woman who was dinged in an interview process. But then when she went through a kind of blind hiring process, she had the best technical score out of anybody And they ended up hiring her one of Atypica's clients. And it was the bias that prevented her from being hired because they assumed she wasn't good technically.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Concepts because you just see study after study, people are really biased and they just can't get out of it. They can't do it.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What you're doing. So we're coming up with recommendations around helping CEOs come up with inclusive plans and then comprehensive plans and then also measuring them. So we have two programs. One is called Startup Include. One is called VC Include. And Startup Include works with startups. And mostly with the CEOs. And we work with them to use surveys to figure out what the demographics and sentiment are of all of their employees and then we group them by different underrepresented groups and then see oh you have one group that is unhappy about compensation. Let's think of some ways to try to either educate them about what you're doing that's fair or make your process more fair or figure out where you are and just give very specific recommendations on how to be inclusive and how to in a lot of it turns around hiring like how to bring people in to make your teams diverse.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny because I remember when Donald Trump said the remark about cozy grabbing, and they're like, well, I have a daughter. I'm like, yeah, but you have a son. What about this? Having a daughter is not the reason you should do it. It's the one right thing to do too. You got a guy you don't want a kid. Whoever child you have, it has to be thinking of it. So what's the point of it right now? What are you doing? And I do want to talk about caport capital too, what you're doing.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then I'm just ignoring all the other people. And a lot of them have much worse problems. Like I've treated much more poorly, but I feel like I'm taking care of my daughter because I have a daughter and I'm going to make sure the world is good for her when she becomes older. Sure. Like that is the reason I hear most often from some of these old line Male executives. No, I get.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't blame you. Yeah, I don't know that people can change, but I think the people who are in charge can change. And I hope that happens. It was in the end of 2015. I started meeting with some people and I ended up meeting with a few folks including like Erica, Joy Baker and Tracy Chow and we ended up talking about like, okay, everybody now is talking about the problem. How do we actually fix it? We're seeing all these unconscious bias training or I'm going to go recruit at this conference for women and then I'm going to talk about it in the press and then I'm done. And we're just like, this is all so terrible and it's just really embarrassing. How can we help and give people what they need to actually change? The eight of us got together and we spent several months putting together 87 recommendations, grouping them into different categories and our core values were very consistent, very easy to come up with. And I think they still hold true today, two years later.”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Female or non binary or underrepresented person of color. And I know this is where I have to go and I'm excited about it because when I go to work and I see people working together and they seem happy and they feel included and they feel like they belong, it makes my day. And so these are the people I think who are going to take tech into the right direction. I don't, you know, I think this desire to be the next more Zuckerberg, this desire to have the next Facebook is incredibly”
2017-10-02 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Ellen Pao, author, “Reset” · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT