YouSaid · the spoken record

Esther Perel

lines on the record: 106
first: 2024-07-17
most recent: 2024-07-17
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I would say my fan page on Facebook probably, but I am on Twitter and I'm on Instagram and I'm on YouTube. I'm doing this whole beautiful series actually of videos that I'm putting up on YouTube on relational intelligence that I think kind of as snapshots of what I say in short what I often say in long I'll tell you what I want is we have often these days tried to simplify things and I think what I try to do is create a conversation on relationships and love and all of that at work as well as at home both levels of relationships in business in companies etc that embraces complexity that's multicultural and that's inclusive and I think that the more people join this the more you will help me do my piece of social change”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“On the other end, they see fixing Do something, you know, or I came to drop off. So I'm all the time thinking, you know, and what are you doing? Take responsibility. You know, it's freedom responsibility. And for the rest, it's like, if any of you are inspired by what I say, join me on all the platforms where you can find me so easily and there's nothing I think I value more than to be in conversation. Like I've so enjoyed our conversation, you and I. to talk about these things. It's part of everybody's life all the time, love, sex, trust, loyalty, commitment, what else is there, you know?”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, the reason I say do you part is because so much of the culture we live in is about doing things for ourselves, enhancing ourselves, pushing ourselves, being more successful, being more health. And it is the most powerful antidepressant. I know that you do something on the depression front as well. And I think that the curse of today isolation. There's a lot of other things we have gained, but we have lost something. And isolation and disconnection. It's a curse of modern life. And I think that there is no more powerful antidepressant, nothing that will give us more meaning in life than to know that we matter for others. And that means to do for others, which is a little bit what couples therapy is about. Most of the time people come to couple therapy, they don't come in order to say, I came to check myself out. They've usually come to be an expert.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's always more you can do. Just don't have your day without having done something for someone that you don't know for that matter. Not just for the ones that are in your little circle. I don't know. In a billboard, it would say do your part”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I recently reread the art of loving by Eric From. I reread the erotic mind by Jack Morin. I reread for this book, I reread Madame Beauvari, which was very disappointing, how, I'll tell you what I reread that I love because one of my kids was reading it in school, crime and punishment. You can reread the Russians. That will just, I don't, they are timeless.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The podcast comes out May 18, and at first it will be on Audible and on Amazon Prime. And then the book comes out in September, will be in stores October 10, and then the podcast will also be released on iTunes. And so it will be re-released at the same time as the book comes out.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Covering a range of subjects where you think you are actually entering into the intimacy of these other relationships and you very quickly realize that you're actually looking inside your own mirror and you're looking at yourselves and you start to talk with the persons, the people of your life, your partners or others about where you are in relation to these questions. And there are stories of infidelity and stories of sexuality and stories of raising children and stories of infertility and stories of unemployment. And it's a very, very poignant experience because it's intimate in your ear. You don't see them, but you hear them. Ten couples who have volunteered to come and have a session with me like I do generally in my office. It's exactly what I would normally do, but this time record it and told so as stories to share.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I understand it Yes, I'm very excited about it. I mean, it's really different ways of exploring, you know, the book, The State of Affairs, is not really a book about infidelity. It's really a book about what do we learn from infidelity about the human heart and the human condition. So I use that lens to enter and to excavate many, many subjects. And I wanted to also have the opportunity of letting people come into my office and actually be in those conversations that I have with couples because most of the time we have no idea what happens in a couple. You know, couples are isolated islands. Sometimes the women may talk to somebody and the man talk to very few. And so we have no idea what's in the antechamber of the couple. And I did a series with Audible and we're going to do a second one already that of 10 couples therapy sessions.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Would say this. I would say why do people cheat? Why do happy people cheat? Is infidelity always a deal breaker? Why do we think that men need variety and are bored, whereas we think that women are hungry for intimacy and lonely? Why do we have such complete different ideas about why men and women cheat? Do we do with jealousy? Can love ever be plural, is possessiveness and arcane vestige of patriarchy, or is it intrinsic to love? All these questions that I'm taking on.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And maybe if there was more of a fear that of losing it because your friends won't take it. Certainly your boss won't take it, your colleagues won't take it. You behave that way at work. You're out. But at home, you think you can do these things. You can treat people really poorly. You can put them down. You can disqualify them. You cannot listen to them. You can shout. You can kick. You can neglect them. You can be indifferent. I mean, my God, there is so many ways to not behave well at home and then call them, you know. It's like, to me, this is where I make people accountable. It's like, excuse me, you can't trap another person. This is like, you know, marital sadism.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What kind of BS is this? I mean, no, no, that's not how you know. Would you say this to somebody else? Could you imagine being that critical with your friends? What is the idea? And this is where marriage comes in. It's because you really think that because you married the other person is just going to be there and take it vice versa. This is in both directions, right? It's like there is something about the seal underneath that has locked this that allows people to then behave subpar.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, it's like when people say, My partner is my best friend, and sometimes, especially in my office, I have to say, do you treat your best friend like this?”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Change context and they suddenly are filled with imagination and attention and focus and generosity and kindness and desires like it's not marriage per se as coupled them and for some reasons the expectations of coupled them have never been higher but what people invest in it hasn't really measured up to bring the best of themselves not to their partner. They bring the best of themselves at work to their friends to their colleagues to their hobbies to their children for that matter much more not to their partner and that is a much more interesting thing to me than marriage per se. It's like I don't ask so much why do people marry? I ask more why do people So often bring the leftovers to their partner while at the same time wanting their relationships to be so glorious. Something doesn't click.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To me, I am really fascinated by how creative, having just written a book about infidelity, I can tell you if people took 1% of the creativity that they put in their affairs and brought it to their marriages or to their relief.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because it touches on something else that I think is much more interesting, suddenly as a couple therapist, is that, okay, let's assume the second time it's easier you've done it the first time, you may not have the young children, et cetera, et cetera. But to me, the more interesting thing is that the first time you still actually adhere to the model. You know, I think that often the divorces are the true idealists. They believe in the model. They just chose the wrong person and they'll do better next time. The second time they begin to think that maybe it's not all about the other person and that maybe it's time to take some responsibility for themselves. Everybody at some point has some relationship things to work out. And the only question is with whom. Are you going to do it with?”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Structures, pillars, architecture, everything else is fluid, fluid, fluid, you know, but we all need solid as well as we need fluid and marriage has remained one of the last solid constructs, even though it fractures way too fast and way too often. Can you do it without marriage completely, you know, but for some reason people feel that commitment without the structure isn't buttressed in the same way The marriage is the buttress. It's the fulcrum. And I don't know if relationships actually that would be an interesting thing to look at numbers do relationships that are not held together by the contract of marriage, do they dissolve anymore in Europe than they do here? I'm not sure. You know, it's 52% or 48 at this point, maybe it's gone down a bit on first marriage, but the fascinating data is not first marriage. It's 65% divorce rate on second marriages.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Marriage has become that institution that still tells you how to go about doing these things in life. To me, the very interesting thing when you ask about why marry, I think about the gay marriage. Gay marriage really was one of the ways to try to understand what does it mean to legalize, to give rights to queer families, to allow people to adhere to a norm when they are so few norms at this moment. Everything has been re-evaluated and redefined. And I think people are sometimes very desperate for norms.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, that's what happens to marriage If you think that that's a guarantee, think again because at this point it is really not doing that well in terms of guaranteeing you things. But I think there are very few rituals at this moment, you know, with the loss of traditional religion, there are very few rituals. There are very few structures, very few institutions to which we can adhere. And I can see that in that sense, the importance of marriage as a ritual that is rooted in a tradition and that comes with a code of conduct and with an official norm to it. And so that's where I place marriage. I don't think of it in legal terms at all. I think of it very much in terms of its cultural meaning. You know, it's like a spine. There are very few things people can hang themselves on these days. Everything is about the self. And the burns of the self are very heavy at this moment.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, in Europe, we marry much less, but we have families and we try to create families with what modernity has given us, which is a rather nuclear model of family, which is a very difficult model for family and a terrible model for couples. We were not meant to be two adults with two or three or four children all alone in cities. I mean, none of it is the way we were meant to do it. And so it's extremely taxing on the couple. And at the same time, the only reason families today survive is if the couple is doing relatively well. That's the only thing keeping families together. So we're facing a very interesting thing. At the same time, if Apple sold you a product that fills 50% of the time, would you buy it?”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Enough. You know, no matter how much sex becomes open, they remain intransigent about the subject of infidelity. And the rest of the world, by the way, that is more family oriented has always opted the other way around. You protect the family, you know, and you don't divorce. So why Americans love to marry? I have never fully Understood, I mean, I have my thoughts, but it's not like I have a definitive answer to that. There are two questions. Why is a deep, meaningful connection with another human being with whom you weave a story along the stages of life? That is one thing. Does it need to take place within the construct of marriage is a very different thing.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, but Americans love to marry. Once, twice, three times. You know, part of the way that I began the project of writing about infidelity came out of the Lewinsky Clinton scandal because I was very intrigued. Why was this country so tolerant about multiple divorces and so intransigent about the slightest transgression?”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely. The definition is elastic. It's unbelievable what people today, how many more ways that we define something as being outside of the boundaries. And we consider them infidelities. And it is one of the experiences that encompasses the entire human drama, everything, jealousy, hurt, betrayal, pain, lust, love, passion, all of it.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sea couples two, three hours at a time, and I delve into the labyrinth of passion, all of it, you know, from all sides. And then I collected all the data, I wrote, I transcribed hundreds of hours of sessions. I transcribed all the letters and I began to gather and then decide what are the main assumptions at this point about this subject. How does our culture think about this? Because no matter And by the way, infidelity happens in polyamorous couples too, you know, the fact that you get an open license doesn't prevent people from climbing the fence. Something about transgression is deeply human.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Got 1500 letters. I thought, my God, I'm walking confessional. The world is pouring their secrets onto me on this subject anyway. And let me try to think it through. Let me really delve into this and look at it from a systemic point of view, meaning if I ask an audience, have you had any experience with affairs or infidelity, you know, nobody's going to lift their hand. Nobody's going to say I cheated or I've been cheated on so easily. But if I ask the same audience, have you been affected by infidelity in your life? I probably get 90% of the fingers up. It's an amazing thing as the child of, as the friend of, as the boss of, as the lover, as the other woman, as the partner, as the person who went out, you name it. And now it becomes really a collective experience. So I wanted to look at it from all angles.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a real mental torture Know it's not just that you're denying, it's that you're also saying what's wrong with me that I'm thinking this. And then you basically make me doubt myself. And you make me doubt that when I think the tea is hot, it's actually hot. You know, I no longer know to trust the world that I live in, my perceptions, my thoughts, my feelings. And that becomes an internal breakdown. It drives people crazy. It's really cruel, actually. It's a very common, but it's a cruel thing to do. I saw, you know, I'm 34 years a couple therapists. I have a fascination for couples. I work in seven languages. I can take them from all over the world. And I began to only see couples who have been affected by infidelity in one variation or another. I also did a TED talk, which has seven and a half million people in a year or two. And I thought, okay,”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When I say I know you are seeing somebody else, I know, I know it, I feel it, or I've even, and you say, no, no, you're crazy. This is because of what your father did to you. You're just paranoid.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It took me a while. This is 10 years since I wrote the meeting in captivity. I take a long time to think, and I only write if I feel I have something to say and something to say means that I want to change the conversation on the subject. I don't want to just add one or two thoughts. I want to really frame the conversation. I want to take something and make a cultural shift around it. So for the past six years, about I began to travel the globe and have conversations about the subject of infidelity, transgression, thrifts, love affairs, fag bodies, betrayal, trauma, lying, deception, cheating, gaslighting from both sides.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you know, mating in captivity looked at the dilemmas of desire inside relationships and the state of affairs, which is my new book, looks at what happens when desire goes looking elsewhere. And I had gone to 20 countries on booktour formating and in many places the only chapter people wanted to talk about was the shadow of the third, the chapter on monogamy, which was only one chapter in that whole book. And I thought there's no way that I can do a thorough study of desire without looking at desire that goes wandering. You know, what does roaming desire like? What is the power of transgression? Why is the forbidden so erotic? What is this thing called adultery, which has been historically condemned and universally practiced? Seriously. It's like, and”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There is a beautiful proliferation of non monogamy thinking that is taking place, and they're very different from the free love pioneers of the 60s and the 70s. But of course, many of those people are the children of the divorced and the disillusioned. And they're not rebelling against commitment per se, but they're looking for more realistic ways to make their vows last. And they've concluded that that Includes other lovers. And I think that the form can vary enormously. You can have occasional hall passes. You can have swingers who play with others. You can have established threesomes, foursoms, complex polyamorous networks. All of these things have one purpose, to reconfigure love and family life, which we have done from time immemorial”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That you describe. What's beautiful is you feel like, you know, whatever he does, she gets to evaluate him. And so the evaluation is power. It's authority. Know in a good sense of the word, I use the word power. And so they are calibrating power. You get to do things, but I don't want to have to suffer because of it. I want to know that I still get the primary goods. I want to know that I come first. And so you want to go play. With just sex alone. You know, these things take place in all every relationship is a power dynamic. I think that that has to be laid out first inside of that we can come up with so many different arrangements that people will live for a while and then switch. I wanted to say that I would say that to the polyamory people as well. I mean it's like”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Needs etc, etc. And there is a segmentation that is accepted. We share these kind of things. We share other things with other people. And to me, it's really a matter of does it fit this particular couple? Does it work for them? Or is there one person who is quietly hurting over a long time and kind of giving in, but there's a power dynamic because the word we haven't used is that in all these negotiations there is an element of power. You know, there is power when you bring in other people, there is power when you feel that the other person can leave you. There is power when you have faced with the hurt of a person who is constraining you. There is a dynamic of power in all of these issues. And the question is, is there an equity in the decision making? Do both people feel that they have equal power in their ability to say what works for them? In this sense,”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Know they don't lend themselves to being adaptive and fluid to what's in front of you. It becomes a matter of principle rather than a matter of what makes sense. I still, I may be a little bit, you know, of the school still where does it make sense? Does it work? I don't care if it's true or if it's right. Does it work? Is it decent? Is it caring? Is it warm? Has it been adapted? Does it fit both people? Those are the criteria. You go back and forth, like kaleidoscopic, not just like two ideas, you know. For many people, the notion of radical honesty, transparency, true telling, authenticity, those have become the values of the economy of today, and so is it in the economy of the home. We want experience, you know, we want purposeful, transformative experiences. We want them at home. We want them at work everywhere. For other people, home is a different thing. And home is meant to satisfy others.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“First thing, I think for some people, don't ask, don't tell, works extremely well. It gives them enough privacy, it makes them both know that there is still a primary loyalty and commitment. There is an implicit sense of knowing where one can go, how far one can go, etc., etc. And there needs to be ample, continuous investment and reassurance and building into the relationship itself. The point is not that you should have the leftovers at home and everything else that is meaningful and exciting and interesting and engaging elsewhere. By definition, you still want to be able to put some logs in your own fire. For other people, transparency and radical honesty has become an ideology. The problem is ideologies generally are rigid.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That ability to review the relational arrangements and to negotiate it and then to try something and then to see if it works and to change. I mean, I can't enough emphasize my desire for flexibility to become part also of couple them so that it doesn't just be, it enters a groove, it goes until it can't, and then it just kind of ends there. It needs to be something a little bit more enriching there.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So anything where I see couples coming up with their own imaginative solutions to various situations and then be flexible about it and review it and change it to me is great. That's it. I think that unfortunately coupledom does not benefit from the same innovative spirit that every other company and entrepreneurial space these days gets to benefit. There isn't one model fits all. And a certain couple may have lived for a while in a monogamous arrangement, an exclusive arrangement, but then decided at some point because of all kinds of issues having to do with age, with illness, with success, with, you name it, with children leaving, with a new awakening, with loss of weight, you name it, you name it. There's lots of triggers that make suddenly people want to change their relational arrangement. And I think that if people are going to stay together a long time, they need...”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I think that I would start and I would say that trust, loyalty, and attachment come in many forms. And when you describe this example and you like it because of its measurements, I would say I like it because of its creativity. Because there's thoughtfulness, because there's a shared complicity, because it seems to have worked, because there's imaginativeness and resourcefulness in it, and because I think that couples often lack a lot of that. Every other system gets innovators and gets new ideas and put into it all the time. And it is an extraordinary how much relationships enter into a certain mode and then stay in it for decades.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Both people have that same curiosity when both people experience the fluidity as something that is additive and not something that's an axiolytic, then it becomes an enhancing experience rather than a dreadful experience each time. It's very complicated when one person says to the other, I really want this. And the other one says, this is hell for me. I can't live with this. And there's very little flexibility sometimes in that system because both people feel it very intensely and more than one relationship has had to end on that basis.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Both of us do in the name of our relationship. I've seen it go both ways. I've seen people for whom it really became a way to live that they never know existed. And I've seen people for whom this is just not the way they want to live. They don't want that fear. They don't want to remember every time their parents went out that they didn't know if they were coming back. They don't want that notion of what if you will fall in love somewhere else, which of course in and of itself would happen no matter what. That threat is always there, that reality is part of any couple. But somehow I don't want to have to know it with such vividness or because I feel that there is something lacking in me or I feel my own insecurities and therefore every time you go, my insecurities get awakened. It's a complex system. I would just say that it generally works better when both people are from the same tribe.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That said, I think it really depends. I would not have it set answer for this. There are plenty of people who at first felt very scared and then have learned to trust differently and have learned to understand that their partner really comes back to them. And in fact, the more they feel free, the more they want to come back to them. And they really have learned to trust that. And then there are others for whom it's excruciating. It just feels either a replay from childhood, either a sense that they're not enough because they have really this notion that you would need more than me and that I can't fill all your needs. It's very, very painful to them. And they bought into that idea very powerfully. Sometimes there is a sense that, you know, you allow yourself something that I don't. Why can't you stop yourself? There are other things that I don't get and I don't go and get them elsewhere. Compromise should be a part of what.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You understand the person who gets to voice it is actually sometimes only voicing a fear that the other one doesn't even voice.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Understand, couples have complementary systems. So I don't at face value would believe that the one who says I'm afraid to lose you is the only one with that fear. I believe we all have it, but I believe that the one who expresses it in the couple isn't always the one for whom it is actually the most intense.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But that doesn't mean that their strategy isn't in fact one that is meant to address an even bigger fear of abandonment than the other. It's just that in this relationship, the other one is the one who gets to feel the quota”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes. Couples have a setup. In a setup, every couple has a setup. It's an organization, right? In every couple, you will often find one person who is more in touch with the fear of losing the other and one person who is more in touch with the fear of losing themselves. One person more in touch with the fear of abandonment and one person more in touch with the fear of suffocation. And that tells you which is the one that is more interested sometimes in experiencing open boundaries and non-monogamy or non-exclusiveness anyway. But the person who wants the open relationship presents as the one who doesn't have the fear of abandonment.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But what if I told you that a person who experiences that fear more openly and is able to say for me this triggers the fear of losing you altogether? Is actually experiencing a lesser fear than the one who is wanting to have other partners.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you know, sit with that. And I will sit with you for whatever time it takes till we figure this out. And then maybe we'll write a letter. You're not just going to go there and sit. I will write a letter and you're first going to hand write that letter and you're going to get your first version out, which you probably won't send, in which you just cleanse your soul. You do your own conscience cleaning. And the next letter will be the one in which you're less thinking about you and more thinking about your partner and your relationship. That's the steps.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sit with this, ponder it, figure out what this was about for you. If it really meant nothing, what does that mean when you say it meant nothing? You mean to say it does not suppose to threaten the future of your relationship, this is not a person with whom you want to live, but even something that is meant to mean nothing has psychological valence. There's a lot of effort goes into making something not mean anything, paradoxically.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And sometimes you lie in order to protect your partner. And then there is the ironic role reversal in which sometimes you realize that you've been lying to yourself and it was you that you were deceiving. And it's all of that that you want to unpack, all those twists and tangles of lines before you send people out because you can never take anything back You know, and the next thing that's going to happen, you're going to say, I slept with someone, and then they want to know how it was. And then they want to know, did you fall in love with that person? And then they want to know maybe they don't want to know. So slow down.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Than to tell the way that your friend did is also one of the many options. It's not the only one, but it is definitely in the repertoire. That sometimes you tell for your own conscience and then the other person can churn the whole night. So there is the positives, the liabilities and the positives of telling. And then there is the liabilities and the positive of not telling. What do you think your partner would want to know? That's the other thing. And when you want to tell, do you ask yourself, do you think your partner would want to know? Are you speaking because of your thoughts about the other person or are you thinking of speaking because of how you feel about yourself? You know, there's a full spectrum of dishonesty, right? There's simple omissions, there's partial truths, there's white lies, there's blatant obfuscations, and there's mental hijacking. I mean, secrecy can be cruel and secrecy can be benevolent, you know, and sometimes you lie to protect yourself.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of the transgression. So that's the first thing I ask what is the meanings and the motives? Why did you do this? How did this happen to you? Were you looking for it? Did you choose it? Did you just stumble into it? Did you resist it? Did you not resist it? Did you hope it would not, you know, are you living with conflict? What is the guilt that you're feeling? What is the guilt? Is the guilt that you've realized that you don't have desire for your partner? It's the guilt that you realize that your partner must have been really terribly frustrated because you've been a terrible lover to your partner. What is it? And so before I ever would, I don't have to tell people do or don't tell or don't tell. I help people figure out what it is that they would tell, why would they want to tell it, and what do they think will happen to the other person when they tell it to them? I think the notion that sometimes not to tell is kinder.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What is it that you want to tell your partner? What is it that you want to tell? You want to tell that you fell in love with someone else? You want to tell that you realized having a fling with someone else how much you loved her or him? You realized that you have been lying to yourself all these years, you realize that it's time to get back into gear because you've become lazy and complacent. You realize that you have been keeping all kinds of sexual secrets that have nothing to do with non-monogamy, but more with your history. What is it you want to tell you, partner? You know, that's the first thing. And do you want to tell something about what happened to you in the meeting with the other person? Do you want to tell what that meeting with the other person made you think about your life? You know, we're not just talking about a series of facts. We're talking about the meaning and the mode.”
2024-07-17 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT