YouSaid · the spoken record

Evgenia Kara-Murza

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2024-06-20

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2024-06-20

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1. “A country that respects the rights of its own citizens and lives in peace with its neighbors. And that is the only thing we want.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

2. “You very much, David. I'm often asked where I take my strength from. And of course I take it from the kids, from Vladimir, but also from all of those people I have the honor of working with. And of course, I take my inspiration from hundreds and hundreds, 737 according to very conservative estimates by Memorial. 737 political prisoners in Russia. all these people who found the courage and the integrity to say no to the regime against all odds. I believe that the potential for a different Russia is there. And I believe that if the world shows support and solidarity with that part of Russian civil society, with those Russians, I believe that we'll be able to turn things around and we'll be able to make sure that Russia one day becomes”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

3. “We need to stand with those who fight for democracies in those countries where people's rights are being oppressed. If we want this world to become a safer place, what is happening in Russia? Matters and what is happening on that continent matters because it's not just the war between Russia and Ukraine. This is war between a totalitarian state between dictatorships and democracies. If Putin is victorious, it will mean that dictatorships win over democracies. And then the evil will spread even further. And then at some point we will wake up and see this evil, those dictators, those regimes, whoever those terrorist organizations knocking on our door. And I think that it is quite clear.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

4. “Because tyranny thrives in darkness and because evil tends to spread. And we saw that with the Putin regime, it started with repressions against the Russian population. And then it spread beyond the Russian borders. And the regime began attacking Georgia, Ukraine, being involved in the atrocities in the war crimes committed in Syria. And we see how dictators of the world are coming together. They're obviously joining forces. We see that happening. Hamas is being welcomed in Moscow. And then Hamas attacks Israel. All these things are interconnected. Evil tends to spread. So human rights violations that are happening anywhere in the world should not be seen as an internal matter of any state. And I believe that this is what we need to remember, that this is not new. If we want democracy to survive,”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

5. “With Vladimir's imprisonment, and I believe that the best way I could help him is by making sure that this work continued. And I now have the honor of working with an amazing group of people, the Free Russia Foundation. It's a civil society organization that brings together a big number of pro-democracy and anti-war initiatives working both inside and outside of the country. The Free Russia Foundation is this huge platform that encourages and supports all these initiatives. And they work to support political prisoners is a big part of my work nowadays.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

6. “And the fact that there is no rule of law and no justice system in Russia, again, is not new. Sergei Magnitsky was assassinated in a Moscow pre-trial detention center in 2009. And back then in 2009, it was already clear that we couldn't find justice in Russia. So the work of speaking out against human rights violators against the danger this regime poses to the entire world could not stop.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

7. “Life does that to us. People do amazing things out of love. And I believe this is about love every single time. This is about love. It is true that I do not enjoy the public part of this job, but I understand the importance of this job that I'm doing nowadays. It is unthinkable for me. And I didn't really even take a moment to decide whether I would speak out or not. The day the moment I got news about Vladimir's detention, I knew what I needed to do because I strongly believe that the best way I can help Vladimir now is by continuing his work. And Vladimir has been speaking out on behalf of political prisoners in Russian for many years. Listen, even before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, there were over 300 political prisoners in Russia. So this is not something new.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

8. “Well, thank you very much for sharing the story of your wife. I can send her my favorite quote by Eleanor Roosevelt, who's a bit of a role model of mine. She said that a woman is like a tea bag. You can't tell how strong she is until you put her in hot water.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

9. “What happened to all the Saint Avali? We still don't have any details. And I'm sure that one day we'll get those details. We'll understand what exactly happened to him. It was absolutely a murder. It was a murder, whether it was done with premeditation, with yet another poison, or because he was beaten up or something like this, or whether it happened because he had been placed in conditions incompatible with life, it's still a murder. It doesn't change the fact that it's still a murder. And I believe that the regime is using this tactic of putting people in conditions, incompatible with life, in an increasing number of cases, making sure that these people basically die on their own.”

   2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

10. “Well, it is no surprise that it got worse because since the poisonings Vladimir had been leading quite an active lifestyle. Doing exercises, and he was obviously had access to physical therapy. So he was able to keep these symptoms under control. But since the imprisonment in solitary cell, his condition and without access to proper medical care, let alone physical exercises or physical therapy. Obviously his condition is deteriorating. But what I see from cases of political prisoners, other cases of political prisoners, the regime seems to be using punishment cells as a way to make sure the state of health of people who already are suffering from some medical conditions deteriorates faster. It seems like this is a way for the Russian authorities to make sure that these people die on their own.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

11. “Where there is very little daylight because there is only one very small barred window under the ceiling, very high on the wall. He's allowed an hour and a half of reading and writing a day, so basically when pen and paper are brought to him, and he's allowed an hour and a half of walking in circles in a small courtyard, also surrounded by walls. And Vladimir has been held in such conditions for over 270 days now. And I have to point out that according to the UN Nelson Mandela rules, keeping a person in solitary confinement for over 15 days is considered torture. Vladimir has spent over 270 days in such conditions”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

12. “Vladimir wrote in an op-ed for the Washington Post that although he was very flattered by this kind of attention from the Russian authorities, no one could ever damage the image of the Russian Federation on the international stage better than Vladimir Putin So, yes. One year, exactly one year after his detention in April of 2023, he was sentenced to 25 years of strict regime. And in September 2023, he was moved to Omsk about 3,000 kilometers away from Moscow in western Siberia. And he was placed in a punishment cell in a strict regime prison colony, number six in Omsk, which is basically a prison within prison. It is a roughly six square meters, I don't know how many feet. It's a very small cramped cell, solitary cell, of course. Where the bed is attached to the wall from 5 a.m. to 9 p.m.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

13. “About the growing number of political prisoners in the Russian Federation, spoke about the need for the Russian population to have access to free and independent media. And he spoke about the illegitimate character of the 2020 referendum that basically destroyed the country's constitution and made Vladimir Putin into its ars. According to the official indictment, these three speeches threatened the national security of the Russian Federation. And I quote, I mean, this is a quote from the official indictment. And damaged the image of the Russian Federation on the international stage. Now, later...”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

14. “The first criminal case was opened against him in April of 2022 for spreading not only false information about the war in Ukraine. The second criminal case was opened during the summer months of 2022 for being affiliated with the so-called undesirable organization. He was also labeled foreign agent, basically a spy. And In the fall of 2022, around the time she was awarded the Vaclav Havel Human Rights Prize by the Council of Europe, a third criminal case was opened against him for high treason. The high treason case was based on three public speeches that he made at the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE at the Norwegian Helsinki Committee and at the US Congress, I believe. He spoke about”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

15. “Something was coming, or if it's just because we always miss each other whenever we are apart, we always miss each other. And whenever we get an opportunity to spend time together, this is always precious to us. So maybe it was just that, me wanting some precious moments with Vladimir. In the middle of that horror because... I remember when the full-scale invasion started, I spent a few weeks in sort of a, I was absolutely devastated, feeling shame and horror and rage and everything combined, you know, all those feelings. And I just wanted to hold on to someone I love and wanted a few moments of peace with him. Maybe it was just that.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

16. “So it's saying that I was more concerned about his safety with the launching of this full-scale invasion. No, I cannot say that. I've been worried about his life for many years now. But I think, I don't know, I remember that I tried to make a trip to Paris perfect. The time that we spent together, I dragged him to the Museum of Rodin. August Rodin, that French sculpture that I absolutely adore. And we went on on the Seine. We just walked around Paris holding hands. And I wanted this to be a beautiful trip. I don't know, thinking back, I don't know if I'd felt something.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

17. “But Vladimir was in Moscow when the full-scale invasion broke out. He was actually the one who woke me up by a text message in the middle of the night on the 24th of February saying just two words it started. I knew what he was talking about, obviously, so I didn't have to ask. We went to Paris because he participated in a hearing, in a PACE hearing, hearing of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe on political prisoners in Russia. That was in very early April, I think it was April 3rd, April 2nd or April 3rd. And on April 4th, he flew back to Moscow and I returned to the US to the king. I don't know if I knew. I've been sleeping with my phone since 2015 because I always am afraid that I might miss something important, that I might miss a call.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

18. “To process that in this way and come up with something like this. But it also shows how very afraid for his life she is. And she understands that he is someone. And he's doing something important. Just like I say that, I wouldn't mind to have a bit of boredom in my life. Sometimes I think the kids think they would rather their father was a librarian.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

19. “So these are two things. So we go in waves. You know, sometimes That feeling of being proud of their father outweighs the fears, the concerns. And at other times, they're just falling in pieces because they just want their daddy to be there for Thanksgiving or for the graduation or for a competition of some kind. I think our daughter, our oldest one was 11. I don't think it was after the first poisoning, but probably after the second poisoning. I remember she looked at him when he was already back home and doing much, much better than we were sort of breathing out as a family a little bit. She looked at him and she said, you know, daddy, you're going to go to Moscow anymore. You're going to become a librarian. Yeah, that was funny. And I know that Vladimir loves this story. And her humor, she was able.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

20. “The first time Vladimir was poisoned, our oldest daughter, who's now 18, was nine. And the second time he was poisoned, she was 11, and her siblings are obviously younger. What I mean to say is that our kids have been living with it. Just like the war in Ukraine that really began in 2014 with the annexation of Crimea and this personal hell has been going on for our family. We've been going through this personal hell since 2015 at least. I mean, the best way to understand how they are dealing with this and how they'll be able to process it is going to be by asking them in like 20 years. I can only see what is happening now and I see that they're very strong resilient heads and that they understand fully who their father is. But at the same time, they're kids and they're needed daddy back.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

21. “Was no question that he would go back. My only request was that he at least could stand and walk. And, you know, I know I'm married. I mean, the fact that I didn't marry politician does not mean that I didn't understand who I was marrying. He was the same guy with the same principles, with the same opinions, very strong opinion. And he is a very excruciating, you know, painfully honest person. So to him calling on Russians to continue resisting the regime from a safe distance was unacceptable. He could not not share the challenges and the risks faced by Russians back home to him this idea that this is my country. This is my country I have the right to be there and I have the right to demand a different government. I have the right to demand that human rights violators be brought to justice. Is always very strong with Vladimir.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

22. “And we had brought to the same team of medics that had treated him in 2015. And they knew what to do. They knew what they were dealing with already. So his organs collapsed in three hours. And yeah, I got on the plane right away and flew to Moscow. And again, when I arrived, he was already in a coma.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

23. “And we desperately try to find some answers as to what had really happened, what had been done to him. And the test conducted in a French laboratory showed extremely high levels of heavy metals in his blood. That was the only finding we have from that 2015 poisoning. And in 2017, when it happened again, it happened about two hours before Vladimir was supposed to leave for an airport. He was supposed to fly back to us, to the US. And I think the idea was that he would collapse during that flight. And of course, flying over the ocean, the plane would not land anywhere and he'd just die. But the symptoms started slightly earlier, two hours before he was supposed to leave for the airport.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

24. “Yet I got him back to the US in the summer of 2015. And it took him about a year to relearn how to walk and use a spoon. He had to wear this brace on his left leg because he suffered from polyneuropathy nerve damage following the poisoning. So he had no use of his left hand and left foot. And he used the cane for over a year to walk around. But he got back to normal, took his cane, and wobbled back to Moscow. And in December of 2015, he was already back in Moscow. And in 2017, another poisoning happened. But in 2017, his organs collapsed much faster. Because after the first poisoning, we tried and tried to... Have an investigation opened into this obvious assassination attack. And the Russian prosecutor's office denied our request.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

25. “Thinking back, yes, it was frightening, but in the moment, I could not afford being afraid. I had to be focused and I had to have some control over the situation, the little control I had, I wanted to maintain it.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

26. “Could not do anything. Honestly, he could not walk, he could not stand. I had to parry him around. And he was talking gibber”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

27. “Yes, but in 2015, it took his body about two days to complete the collapse. He suffered from a multi-organ failure as a result of the poisoning. So basically none of his major organs worked. His lungs, his heart, his kidneys, his stomach, everything just switched off one after another And by the time I got to Moscow, she was already in a coma, she was hooked on all these machines that worked for his major organs. And he looked like this huge. With all the tubes coming out of him, his feet were blue like your shirt. Stayed his condition was described to me as extremely unstable. Vladimir at that time in 2015 spent three weeks in the intensive care unit, most of that time in a coma. And then three more weeks in the neurology department, because when he came out of the coma, he talked gibberish and he could not stand and he could not.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

28. “Yes, absolutely. I went there right away. I just waited for our parents to get here to take care of the kids. So they jumped on the plane and flew here and in like in 48 hours after Vladimir's collapse, I was in Moscow.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

29. “Well, by that time, we knew that there were people in the Kremlin who did not like what Vladimir was doing. And it was absolutely clear because when he began working on the Magnitsky legislation, he lost his job at RTVI. The owner had changed the owner of the TV station had changed. And the only decision of that new owner was to fire Vladimir. And later, it was Boris Nemtsov actually, who somehow found out, I don't know how, but he found out that the decision had come from the Kremlin. Boris was assassinated in February 2015, and Vladimir collapsed with the first poisoning in May of 2015. Exactly three months after the Boris's assassination. So I think in my head, all of that was intertwined. I had not yet been able to process what happened to Boris and then Vladimir collapsed.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

30. “Go through it and to process it. I usually say that I believe for Vladimir making this movie was an opportunity to stay with Boris a little longer. That's how I see it.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

31. “Vladimir, as I said, I don't think he has ever been able to fully process it. After the assassination, the first thing he did was, well, he made a documentary about Boris. And in Vladimir's film, that is available on YouTube in English as well. When Vladimir does a screening for this film, he always says that this film is not about the death. There is no death. There is no murder in this film. It is a film about the life of a great statesman, of a great person of Vladimir has always admired and loved. So that was his response. Heroes do not die. And I don't think that he has been able to fully process it. And when people say that this documentary might have been a way for Vladimir to cope.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

32. “to honor Boris Nemtsov and the first renaming happened here in Washington DC in front of the Russian embassy. And there's now this plaque with the Boris Nemtsov Square. And when the renaming happened, Vladimir said that he wanted these people at the embassy to look out the windows every single day and see the name of Boris Nemtsov there. And he said that one day he's sure that they will look out of the window and be proud because people in the embassy will change and the regime. Will no longer be there.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

33. “I mean, ridiculous. But Vladimir working together with Boris's lawyer Vadim Prokharev, they approached the then president of the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSC, Margareta Sederfeld. And she wrote a very important report on the murder of Boris Nimtsov. And the conclusion of this report was that all the paths led to the Kremlin that it was the decision of the Kremlin to have him eliminated. And that was, I know that this was extremely important to Vladimir to have that put in black and white on paper. If not, inside of Russia, at least by international organizations. And I know that this is also the reason he started this campaign of renaming streets and squares around the world.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

34. “Let him was in Moscow. He spent a lot of time in Russia, not just in Moscow, but just traveling across the regions. Yes, and he was in Moscow in February of 2015. And he called me to tell me about the assassination. And I couldn't believe it. It is true that over the years, They became very close and Boris became the godfather of our second daughter. So he was not just Vladimir's colleague and mentor, but he was also someone close to a family. And I know that Vladimir was... Never able to fully come to terms with Boris's murder. This is why I think it was important to him that an investigation be carried out. And of course, in Russia, it was not conducted in a proper way. The organizers and masterminds of that assassination have not yet been found.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

35. “Needed to be safe. Latimer is known for risking his life numerous times already and for staying true to his principles throughout all these assassination attacks and persecution and now this imprisonment. But I know how much he adores his kids and to him. It has always been important that the kids were safe. So basically I mostly stayed with them here, raising the kids doing my work. And Vladimir was traveling around the world, doing his thing. And in 2010, he got involved in the campaign for the Magnitsky legislation together with Boris Nemtsov and William Browder. And since then pressure against him became truly tangible.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

36. “Because, well, Vladimir was offered a position of the Bureau chief of RTVI, a TV channel based in New York, Russian TV channel based in New York that was at that time independent. And so, as I said, it always wanted to try TV journalism and with my skills of an interpreter and translator, I thought I could do this work anywhere. So we came and we thought we'd explore this beautiful country, we'd look around. I'd never been to the US before. So we came here and very soon it became clear that Vladimir would not be able to pursue his journalistic career in Russia, his journalistic work in Russia because all these independent media were being closed down, banned, and put under extreme pressure. And so we decided, okay, we'd stay for a little bit more, a little bit more, and then the kids were born. And we realized that in order for Vladimir to be able to continue his political activities, his political involvement, the kids.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

37. “I believe that the war in Ukraine is the only way for Vladimir Putin to stay in power. This is why a victory, any kind of victory, is so important to him. Even if he gets to just keep the illegally occupied territories, he will represent it as a victory and he will remain in power. So this is why beyond the first moral reason for Ukraine's victory, I think that there is also this argument that the Kremlin has to lose this war and Ukraine has to emerge victorious in this war. That will definitely weaken the regime in the Kremlin, I believe.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

38. “And today, what we see on TV, this is absolutely atrocious. There is not one single independent TV channel, and every single channel just projects the same propaganda, the same narrative, but sort of delivered in slightly different forms, targeting slightly different audiences, but basically this same narrative of Russia being this huge great power surrounded by enemies and that everyone out there wants to see Russia on its knees. Everyone wants to see Russia's defeat. That narrative was being forced on the population for over two decades now.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

39. “And he'd always wanted to try TV journalism like his father, a very well-known, independent TV journalist in post-Soviet Russia, one of the first ones. And my father-in-law worked for the three major TV channels that were closed one after another. By 2003, they were all closed down by Vladimir Putin. Vladimir Putin knew what he was doing and propaganda is one of the main instruments of this regime. By 2003, as I said, all independent, major independent TV channels that were readily available to the majority of the Russian population that still relies on TV as the main source of information. These channels were closed down. Vladimir Putin basically created this That can fill it with propaganda and waited for it to take root.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

40. “Well, first of all, we came for, we thought, we came for a year or two. And it was, I think, the reaction to To losing the elect Because Vladimir needed something new, he needed something to, you know, something uplifting.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

41. “Yes, he was a young guy, but already very ambitious. He already knew what he wanted to do in life. And that was politics. And politics in Russia, I have to say, because people suggested he has a dual Russian British citizenship. And he could have stayed in the UK and continued and maybe he could have built a political career there. But the moment he graduated, the moment he got his bachelor degree, he packed his bags and went back to Moscow. And he said that the UK can very well do without me. It is in Russia that my knowledge might come in handy, might be useful. So yes, he always won it and he continues to want that even from behind bars. He wants to be A politician in Russia.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

42. “See these posters, could only see huge black holes. So things like that happened. So this was absolutely not fair. And YT came second, but of course knowing Vladimir, he was very disappointed and very sad.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

43. “Yes, I can explain. Indeed, he was allowed to put his candidate forward, but during the campaign, interesting things happened. For example, he would still be allowed to participate in TV debates. But when it was his turn to speak, the sound would go off. Or he was allowed to put up his posters around that district in Moscow where he was running and the election campaign is carried out through the fog month. And as you well know, in Russia, in Moscow, it gets very dark, very early in the fall months. Around 4 p.m., it's already dark. And so the lights on his big posters would go off at 4 p.m. every single day. So people who were returning from work and were supposed to”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

44. “Vladimir has always wanted to be in parliament. That is his dream forever and ever. He's not, you know, Vladimir is not a, he never wanted to be a revolutionary Never wanted to be on the barricades. That was not the idea. He wanted to be in Russian parliament. He wanted to be a member of the State Dumas to make laws that would make the life of ordinary Russians better. That was his dream. Vladimir Putin came to power in 1999 in our country and began turning the country into an authoritarian state. And so very soon it became obvious that Vladimir would not be able to get elected. In 2003, when he ran, he came second. And that was the last election that was considered free but not fair by international organizations.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

45. “I would actually like to have some. So at the time when we got together, it was not about politics. It was not about him campaigning for against Vladimir Putin and for different Russia. It just, it was a different kind of connection of two people who realized that they can spend the life together. I looked at him and I thought, yep, that is the guy I could actually live my whole life together with. I could grow old with him. I'll be happy to grow old with him. That was what it was built on.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

46. “To me, it was the same. I did not marry politician. Oh, God forbid no. Actually, that part of Vladimir has always been to me something of a, I don't know, I did not, I never had the ambition being marital politician, believe me. To me, he was a funny, extremely smart, intelligent, reliable, loyal person and he was, is and will always be someone I will never be bored with. I remember my previous relationships. I always would be bored, would get bored at some point with Vladimir never happens. And actually nowadays, I think that I would not mind a bit of boredom in my life.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

47. “No, I think for me, just like we're all kids, Vladimir, you know, take the kids. They know who the father is. They hear people talk about him. They hear people expressing their admiration and respect for his position or his views. But to our children, he's not, first of all, he's not a politician or a historian or a journalist or filmmaker or one of the many things Vladimir is for them to them, he is their body. He is someone who taught them how to ride a bike or drive a stick later. He's someone who had father daughter, father, son days with them. This is someone they could watch a movie with on the couch and just laughing.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

48. “And we saw that happening over the years. We saw that with the invasion of Georgia, with the annexation of Crimea, with war crimes committed in Chechnya and then in Syria, and with violent suppression of peaceful protests in the country and with completely with the destruction of civil society institutes in the country. So every time the response to these acts or repression and aggression was such that it made him believe that he could get away with more. And he ended up invading Ukraine just starting a full-blown war of aggression in the middle of Europe. So yes, I believe that that knowledge of history is extremely important.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

49. “And we see the proof of that in the coming to power and the strengthening of the Putin regime in Russia. Because for years, the crimes that he committed and his regime committed against the Russian population, suppressing all the freedoms, all the rights of the Russian population, and against our neighbors were pretty much ignored. concern over human rights violations that were happening in Russia did not go beyond just expressions of concern. And we know that every time an authoritarian ruler is allowed to get away with committing something like this, he gets more and more convinced that he can get away with something bigger.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

50. “He is himself a historian. I think that the knowledge of history should be a prerequirement for a politician in any country around the world. Because you see, there is this saying by Ronald Reagan that if history teaches us anything, it teaches that self-illusion in the face of unpleasant facts is a folly.”

    2024-06-20 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 584 – Evgenia Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source