YouSaid · the spoken record
George Freeman
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On the record 2010–2026
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“I turn to the energy company obligation, which is a specific part of the hon. Member’s Bill. ECO, as it is known, is a regulation on larger energy suppliers to deliver energy bill savings through the installation of energy efficiency measures. Since the scheme started in 2013, about 3.5 million energy efficiency measures have been installed in about 2.4 million homes across Great Britain. Therefore, just under 10% of British households have lower energy bills as a direct result of ECO. This year, the Government extended the scheme until March 2026 and increased the spending envelope from about £640 million to £1 billion a year. That is focused on low-income and vulnerable households living in the least energy-efficient homes.”
House of Commons18 November 2022Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗
“To achieve that, a new energy efficiency taskforce will be charged with accelerating the delivery of energy efficiency across the economy, and new Government funding worth £6 billion will be made available from 2025 to 2028. That is in addition to the £6.6 billion committed to over this Parliament, of which just over half has already been allocated to significantly improve the least energy-efficient homes through our social housing decarbonation fund, the home upgrade grant and the local authority delivery scheme. I hope that he can see that we are trying again to focus that money on that most vulnerable cohort whom he has spoken for. Homes receiving energy efficiency measures under those schemes will benefit from average bill savings of between £300 and £700 a year based on an average energy bill of £2,500.”
House of Commons18 November 2022Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗
“Indeed, under those industry initiatives energy suppliers have worked with charities, including Macmillan Cancer Support, to provide particular help to people diagnosed with cancer. On energy efficiency, which was the second point raised by the hon. Member for Stockton North, while the Government, Ofgem and energy suppliers offer direct help with energy bills, we know that the best long-term solution is to improve the efficiency of people’s homes. That is why yesterday the Government announced a major new commitment to drive improvements in energy efficiency to bring down bills for households, businesses and the public sector with a clear ambition to reduce the UK’s total energy consumption from buildings and industry by at least 15% by 2030 against 2021 levels.”
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“That helpline opened on 14 November and has already started processing customers. The warm home discount provides further help beyond that £150 rebate. Under the industry initiatives element of the scheme, worth more than £40 million this year, several hundred thousand households receive help such as debt write-off, energy efficiency measures, financial assistance and benefit entitlement checks. All households helped under that element of the warm home discount also receive energy saving advice. Charities and businesses offering those services can provide genuinely life-changing packages, and we encourage everyone to pursue them. Low-income and vulnerable households, including those with a terminal illness, may be able to benefit under industry initiatives even if they are not eligible for the £150 rebate.”
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“My hon. Friend makes an excellent point on behalf of the hospice sector, and Mountbatten hospice in particular. The hospice sector is key through its provision of not only care, but support to citizens at the most vulnerable time in their life. I join him in paying tribute to hospices, and I will come on to talk about some of the ways they contribute. Macmillan Cancer Care has done some interesting work on energy in particular. Customers on prepayment meters may receive a top-up voucher, and all payment types benefit as long as they have an account with a participating energy supplier. For eligible households where there is no data or we are unable to match, they receive a Government letter by mid-January, asking them to call a helpline and verify their eligibility. We are doing everything we can to try to reach out.”
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“The real challenge is to make sure that the people on the frontline who are eligible and dealing with the very hardest situation in life can get the help they need. On the employment side of the hon. Gentleman’s Bill in particular, everyone can see that there is a problem when people do not have the most enlightened employers. Asking those people to take recourse through the courts when they are in the situation they are in is hard, and we need to sit down and see whether there is something we can do to ensure that happens less and less, and that people suffering from disabilities and terminal illnesses can live and work as they want, with dignity right through to the end of their working lives. I think all of us in the House would support that.”
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“I am grateful, and in return I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising this matter. I look forward to our being able to make some progress, whether or not in the form of this Bill. I think he understands that we need to try to focus on solving the problem, and he probably does not want to wait three years to get his Bill on to the statute book—he would rather get something done more quickly. In conclusion, I will sign off where I started, and pay tribute to the work of the Marie Curie team and all the hospices that Members have mentioned around the country, which do so much for this most vulnerable group. I hope that Members across the House can hear how seriously the Government take this matter. We are putting significant funding out there.”
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“I very much welcome the debate and congratulate the hon. Lady on securing it. I just want to make it clear that there is somebody from the Government Front Bench here: I am sitting here and listening carefully to everything she says.”
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“That has reminded us of the importance of having resilient supply chains and ensuring that we are not vulnerable to hostile actors internationally, or to supply chains in which we can be held to ransom.”
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“However, low-carbon electricity now gives us around half of our total generation, we have installed 99% of our solar capacity since 2010, the onshore wind industry is already generating over 14 GW and is happily accepted around the country—onshore wind is cheap—and we have put £30 billion of domestic investment into the green industrial revolution. Those are figures that, even 15 years ago, one might have been surprised to see. This country is genuinely leading in making the big transitional investments to move to net zero. Of course, in the last 18 months, the pandemic and the appalling situation in Ukraine have triggered a cost of living crisis and, in particular, a cost of energy crisis globally.”
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“I pay tribute to the last climate change Minister in the Labour Government before 2010, who started a profound acceleration of our leadership on net zero. I am proud that the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition between 2010 and 2015, and then the Conservative Government, have taken that forward. Our leadership on net zero has come on leaps and bounds. The scale of that success bears repeating. Since 1990, we have managed to grow the economy by about 40% and the net zero sector by around 70%. We have managed to demonstrate that it is possible to have green growth. There has been extraordinary progress. I accept, as I think everyone does, that as a country we were late to this.”
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“Members have raised some important points about the role and the mechanisms of local consent in these sectors, in relation not only to gas but to all critical national infrastructure and other renewables. Let me start by setting the scene. As someone who has been in this House for 12 years and has been watching it for about 30, I think it is fair to say—I can see that colleagues around the House feel the same way—that, as a country, for decades we have rather taken energy for granted. Until about 15 years ago we presumed it was something that would always be there, very cheaply, at the flick of a switch, and we did not have to worry too much about it. That position has changed, rather belatedly but dramatically, in the last 15 years.”
House of Commons15 November 2022Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗
“For those listening, and for the 18,000 people who signed the petition, let me be very clear: the Government are not about to open up the UK fracking market. We are back to the position that we set out in 2019. I thank those who have spoken today. It is a great pleasure to see the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon); I know I am in the right room when I see him here, assiduous as ever. I also thank the hon. Members for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) and for Bristol East. I will deal with the points that have been made and with the broader context in which we need to view this issue. I will say something about the energy supply market, something about gas and something about local consent.”
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“To say that this horse has bolted is to liken Shergar to a beach pony; the issue is well and truly put to bed. I will deal with the points that hon. Members have made, but it gives me great pleasure to make it very clear that this Prime Minister, the Cabinet, the Secretary of State, and the Minister for Climate—in fact, this whole Government—have returned to our position in the 2019 manifesto, which was an effective moratorium on fracking. Furthermore—this may go some way towards answering the point made by the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy)—Ministers are taking a presumption against issuing any further hydraulic fracking consents. I accept that for a month or two, all sorts of horses were running wild around the beach, but the position is absolutely clear.”
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“It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley, in the absence of the Minister for Climate, my right hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart), who is dealing with these very issues at COP27 today. I congratulate the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Helen Morgan); she is a very exciting new Member of Parliament, and she has done well today in bringing this issue to the attention of the House. As somebody who was as concerned as everyone else here that the very short-lived Administration that took office in September flirted with the idea of lifting the 2019 Conservative moratorium on fracking, I am delighted to say that that policy has very clearly been reversed by the Prime Minister.”
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“As Minister for science, research, technology and innovation, I can say that we are investing heavily in small nuclear, in fusion, in marine and in geothermal, because we see a huge opportunity for the UK to be in the vanguard of the renewables and clean energies of tomorrow.”
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“The hon. Lady makes an excellent point. Indeed, that is why the former Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), used to refer to the southern North sea as the Saudi Arabia of wind energy. That is precisely our ambition. First, we need to ensure that we can meet our own domestic energy market needs. The hon. Member for Bath makes a crucial point for me very well, which is that we are in a global market and global energy demand over the next 20, 30 and 40 years will rise. It is not just a question of moving our existing energy demands to renewable supplies, vital though that is; it is also about developing the renewables of the future and contributing globally.”
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“But let me be clear: that cannot in any situation go against our own environmental commitments, the environmental advice we have received or, crucially, local consent. As others have said, the British Geological Survey has made it crystal clear that there is no evidence to suggest that fracking can be pursued in any way that would pass that test. Again, I am delighted to repeat how pleased I personally am that we—the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Government —have made it clear that we are back to our 2019 effective moratorium.”
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“This country has a huge opportunity as part of the science superpower mission to generate solutions that we can export around the world, and I am proud of what we are doing. Given the crisis in Ukraine and the extraordinary pressures on everybody this year when it comes to paying their energy bills, the Government made a huge commitment to cap those energy bills and provide support, but it is right that our customers—the constituents we serve, taxpayers, households and businesses—would expect any responsible Government to look at whether there are easily and quickly accessible supplies of clean gas in the UK that could be extracted in a sensible and environmentally satisfactory way. People would think it was daft and weird if we were not prepared even to look at doing so in such a context.”
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“The hon. Member has made an important point. I will not attempt to answer it because I am not the Minister for Climate, but I will flag it with him and ask that the hon. Member gets a proper answer. As well as our groundbreaking leadership in the transition of our existing energy system to net zero supply, we are investing heavily in the technologies of tomorrow to ensure that we can be a global player in the great challenges we face. Agriculture and transport are the two biggest industries after energy that generate and use the most carbon and greenhouse gases, and we are hugely advanced in research and development in those sectors. I say that as a former Minister for future transport and for agritech.”
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“There is a difficult balance to strike, but we all know good consent and good consultation when we see it. We know when a company is listening and when a community has been properly heard. I do not think that has been the case often enough and I am delighted to have the chance to put that on record.”
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“It is critical infrastructure, although if we were better connecting all the offshore wind farms, we could reduce the need for individual substations and cabling all across the Norfolk and Suffolk coast. The Minister for Climate is looking into that, because it would support the infrastructure for trading out of the southern North sea. I have seen at first hand that communities are often not properly consulted. As other hon. Members have said, without in any way opening up the risk of community benefit creating an opportunity for some sort of inappropriate payments to buy consent, I believe it is important that when a village is hosting two vast pieces of national infrastructure, it might get a park bench or some swings or something from the developer, which is making a huge amount of money.”
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“As the local constituency MP, I watched as the scheme promoter came forward with a proposal for a substation, which I naively thought 10 years ago was a thing the size of a shipping container that hums behind a yew bush, but this thing is the size of Wembley stadium and its proposed location was on top of a hill, so the whole of Norfolk could see this huge piece of industrial development. I was not against hosting the substation in Mid Norfolk, but through decent consultation with the company, we ended up siting it in low-lying ground, out of sight, with minimal light and visual impact. For our thanks, we have had another one; we now have two next to each other in Mid Norfolk.”
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“Difficult though it is to see how this would take off, we have left open the possibility that if an area—north, south, south-west, Scotland or Northern Ireland—found itself sitting on an easy and geologically stable opportunity to exploit shale gas and came to the Government with strong local consent, strong environmental data and a strong business and environmental case, the Government would consider it. That is very different from us setting an ambition and encouraging this industry around the country. My constituency is home to the first two major substations, connecting the first two offshore wind farms in the southern North sea.”
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“However, a good developer will and should always engage with the local community and listen to real concerns. I have seen consultations in my area where concerns have been expressed but have not been listened to or reflected in the proposals, and no change has been made to anything that was promoted. That often drives the view of sham consultations, in which people are not being heard. We need to be wary of assuming a one-size-fits-all approach would work for local support.”
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“Member for North Shropshire partly brought forward this debate, the licence for fracking that would potentially impact the Market Drayton and Whitchurch area is an indicative licence. No work has been done and no application for work has been received. In the light of the announcement of the return to the 2019 position, it is difficult to envisage any situation in which that licence could be of any use. I reassure her that we are not expecting any activity in that area. We all—and the Government certainly—recognise that community support is important. We generally want planning to be something that is done through and with local communities, not to them. Some sort of balance is always required. Obviously, there is a huge difference between a loft extension and the siting of a huge piece of critical national infrastructure.”
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“I hear the hon. Member; she has made her point and put it on the record. I am slightly adverse to the idea that we put into legislation every single thing that we are not going to do. We would be here an awfully long time to reassure everyone. I am not sure that that is a sustainable way for Parliament to proceed. The Prime Minister made it clear through the written ministerial statement to the House, and the sector and community generally have understood that the idea mooted in September is now dead and buried, and we will not go back there. I turn to the important point regarding local consent, which a number of colleagues have made. There is little I can say about pockets of local consent in particular areas. With regard to the situation in North Shropshire, in response to which the hon.”
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“I do not want to steal the thunder of my ministerial colleague, my right hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness, who is looking at that issue right now. The pandemic and the war in Ukraine have revealed that we are exposed on a number of our food and agricultural supply chains. We need to get the balance right between covering far too much of our agricultural land and equally making sure that where communities can carry industrial sites, we have the right incentives in place.”
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“The hon. Member makes an important point, which I personally agree with and the Government are sensitive to. Again, our constituents would think it perverse if, at the very time when our exposure to international food supply and agricultural supply chains has been exacerbated by the war in Ukraine and the pandemic, we were then to decide to take out of productive capacity huge areas of agricultural land. Agriculture is a great British industry and the agritech sector is developing net zero technologies that allow us to do clean and green agriculture. We do not want to undermine that industry.”
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“I am not sure it is a myth; it is a mixed bag. There are areas where solar has been deployed very effectively, with happy sheep grazing around it and very little reduction in the productive capacity of land. I do not want to stray beyond my brief—I am not the Minister with responsibility for energy—but equally there are in my part of the world, in the east of England, proposals for huge, industrial-scale solar on good productive farmland. In the spirit of the question from the hon. Member for Strangford, I think a lot of people are worried about those proposals.”
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“Let me close by giving all those watching this debate around the country clear reassurance that the Prime Minister, the Cabinet, the Government, the Secretary of State and the Minister for Climate have taken us back to the position set out in our 2019 manifesto, of which I was proud: an effective moratorium on fracking. We have made it clear that Ministers are not looking to open up fracking to support the crisis in our energy sector. I hope that message goes forth, loud and clear around the country, to those who were understandably worried back in September. They no longer need worry about that at least.”
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“The hon. Lady makes a very important point. In some ways, the two are linked, because there are plenty of examples of deployment of solar and wind onshore that do not undermine the productive capacity of land or the attractiveness of the area. Opinion polls show that if they are properly deployed in the right areas with the right consultation and consent, onshore measures can be popular. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Climate is considering whether there is more we can do to tackle this short-term energy crisis in a way that does not create a problem for us downstream. I should wrap up; I have strayed beyond my core brief as the Minister for science, research and innovation.”
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“This Government are absolutely committed to taking the crash of 2007-8 under the Labour Government, the difficult fiscal situation afterwards, the pandemic and the emergency in Ukraine as the wake-up call that they are to invest more in our industries of tomorrow and today, to develop our industrial resilience, to support the R&D for tomorrow’s sectors, and to support our leadership in net zero. I would like to think that the Labour party would celebrate that. The truth is that British industry is leading the way in net zero in this country, and that is something we should be proud of. I will come to the detail of that in due course.”
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“I look forward to a good debate, not least about the depression of the Opposition’s motion, which says very little about their own positive plans to develop an industrial sector for the 21st century, but simply looks to print a cheap leaflet for distribution on the doorstep. We can do better than that, and I hope that we will this afternoon. As Minister for science, research and innovation in technology, my mission is to make the strategic shift in this country’s economy. The Labour party, in its long period in office, seemed to delight in—I remember the “Deputy Prime Minister” saying he was profoundly relaxed—all the deregulation in the City, the move to a service economy and deindustrialisation.”
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“It is a great pleasure to serve in this debate and to have my first outing at the Dispatch Box as the returned Minister for science research, innovation and technology at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy—a name written proudly on the side of the building—in order to refute the litany of woe and failure that those on the Opposition Benches love to reel out, to paint a picture of a British economy that the businesses around this country would recognise and understand, and to set out in some detail the plans we have to support not only the industries of today, but the industries of tomorrow, for which this country is leading in creating the framework globally.”
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“Far from it, the former Member for Hartlepool and “Deputy Prime Minister” paid tribute to the Conservative party, to me, the then Chancellor and the then Minister, David Willets—who is now in the other place—for leading the thinking on a modern industrial strategy for a modern economy. In truth, in the last few years that work has inevitably been interrupted, first by the pandemic—I am proud that the Conservative party put in £400 billion of business support for industry—and secondly by Ukraine, which has been a wake-up call to the world about the resilience of industrial supply chains. We have worked head and shoulders in the last year to beef up those industrial supply chains to protect British industry from that vulnerability, and we continue to do so.”
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“We announced this summer that we are moving that to Nottinghamshire and creating the world’s first industrial deployment of fusion technology at commercial scale over the next 10 to 15 years. We are setting out a quantum strategy. On Friday, I was with the quantum industry, which is applauding us; we are No. 1 in Europe in the quantum industry and investment. That is a partnership between big companies—Toshiba, BT, BAE Systems and many others—and our very fertile ecosystem of small companies and universities. Similarly, I was proud, as the then Minister, to launch the UK’s first industrial strategy for agri-tech. Forgive me, then, if I do not take any lectures from the Labour party on the lack of an industrial strategy.”
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“I will make some progress in my opening remarks and then I will give way to the hon. Gentleman. In my specific role and portfolio, my job is to support the industries of tomorrow. In life sciences, I set out with the then Minister the first 10-year life science strategy in this country. We launched the genomics programme, NHS digital and accelerated access, and we laid a lot of the foundations for this country’s success in the pandemic. Last year, we launched a 10-year space strategy for commercial leadership in the space sector, and we are now in the process of implementing it. We have set out a 10-year plan for fusion, and we are investing, through the UK Atomic Energy Authority, in the ground-breaking technology at the Culham Centre for Fusion Energy.”
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“Let me finish this point. Thirdly, the tightening of the global energy markets has hit many energy-intensive industries hard. We have announced £25 billion of support for the next six months. That is far from the doom and gloom of the motion, which, for anyone who reads it, paints a picture of this Government having no strategy or policy for industry, which is complete rubbish.”
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“Under the last Labour Government, manufacturing jobs had been haemorrhaging. We stopped that in 2010 and, through major investment of the sort that I just set out, we have turned around this country’s manufacturing sector, which is now much more advanced. Again, I am surprised that Labour Members are not congratulating us on that. Manufacturing jobs were collapsing in this country, but 84% of manufacturing now takes place throughout the country, outside London, not just in the old industrial belt, but in the space economy in Cornwall and in Glasgow—I thought that Scottish National party Members would cheer that. There is the north Wales energy corridor, the south Wales compound semiconductor cluster and the Warwick robotics cluster. Our manufacturing economy is highly advanced, highly competitive and decentralised.”
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“The reason it was not on the list is that I was listing all the industries of tomorrow. I will come to the specific points he makes. The biggest customer for steel in this country is our rail sector, and we are proud that the UK rail industry, into which we are pouring an unprecedented level of investment, is a major user of British steel. I will come to the steel industry in a moment. The motion paints a picture of doom and gloom and the collapse of manufacturing. It is time to put that stale old Labour trope to bed. The UK is still the ninth biggest manufacturing country in the world. Manufacturing this year contributed £205 billion in gross value added to the UK economy. We are the fourth largest manufacturing economy in Europe, supporting almost 2.5 million jobs.”
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“I will come to steel, shipbuilding and automotive shortly. I had not mentioned the hon. Gentleman’s rail point because I was highlighting the industries of tomorrow.”
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“I do not have that figure at my fingertips, but I have a funny feeling that the hon. Gentleman does. The Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) will respond on that later.”
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“Indeed, fantastic things are happening at NETPark. One would think that the Labour party, which dominated County Durham politics for decades and seemed to indulge in the poverty up there, would celebrate the phenomenal turnaround in the north-east. It is one of our leading manufacturing regions. NETPark is home to Kromek and Newcastle is home to QuantuMDX. That is a great story of British manufacturing driving an advanced economy in the areas that were blighted by painful deindustrialisation. I am proud that the Conservative party is in the vanguard of that.”
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“That brings me to steel, and the hon. Gentleman makes an important point. There has been real pressure on the steel industry in the past 15 to 20 years. Global economic conditions are hugely challenging for all domestic steel sectors. There has been massive overcapacity, unfair overseas subsidies and steel dumping. The real issue is that global steel production has more than doubled since 1995 and China is by far the biggest contributor to that growth. In 1995, China accounted for 13% of the world’s steel production. By 2019, that had risen to 53%. There has been a phenomenal change in the global steel market.”
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“I will deal with the specific point. Our ongoing support for the steel industry this year includes more than £800 million in relief for electricity costs, in addition to the energy bills relief scheme. The sector can apply for help with all sorts of energy efficiency, with decarbonisation and low-carbon infrastructure. More than £1 billion is available in competitive funding for the industry in that sector alone.”
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“In March this year, we successfully secured an expansive removal of US section 232 tariffs on UK steel and aluminium products, which means that UK steel and aluminium exports to the US can return to levels not seen since before 2018. We have also extended our steel safeguard measures for a further two years. I simply do not accept, and I do not think anyone listening to the debate would say, that the Government have done nothing and are doing nothing on procurement. It is simply not true.”
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“The steel procurement taskforce, which we set up as a joint working group between Government and the steel industry, published seven recommendations in February this year, and those are being implemented through updating the Cabinet Office procurement policy note. As the hon. Member will see—he asked a good question—we are taking serious steps on procurement. In 2021, the Secretary of State for Defence acquired specialist steel producer Sheffield Forgemasters, with £400 million of investment over the next 10 years, and Sheffield Forgemasters is working with other companies, including Rolls-Royce and the Canadian company General Fusion, on the development of nuclear power generation.”
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“Let me just deal with this point. We are investing more than £600 billion to transform our country’s infrastructure—roads, rail, broadband and more—and we plan to procure 8.5 million tonnes of steel as part of that over the next decade; the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) touched on procurement. We published an updated steel pipeline in June 2020, to help the industry plan ahead. The value of UK steel procured by the Government for major public projects in 2021, which I checked before coming to the debate, was £268 million—an increase of £160 million from the previous year.”
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“I would point out that last week, Green Lithium announced the UK’s first large-scale merchant lithium refinery and the first such refinery in Europe, to be built in Teesport, supported by the automotive transformation fund.”
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