YouSaid · the spoken record

Georgiana Laudi

lines on the record: 71
first: 2022-09-29
most recent: 2022-09-29
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“You for asking. Twitter is probably the best way my Twitter handle is atrocious gga.me on Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn every once in a while. Obviously, my email address is gia at forget the funnel.com. So if anybody has any questions, whatever, feel free to email me if you want any templates or whatever that don't get included in the show notes. Just ping me. I have no problem with that. And then forgetth the funnel.com. We've got a book page where there is a waitlist for the what we're going to do. pre-sale and then the published book like the public physical published physical book will be early in 2023 but we are going to do pre-sale because get it in those hands why not”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We actually just use no rush or EOD like for end of day or timely. We do have like the alarm emoji is the like now it's going to be dealt with”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Devilie carving up time like time blocking. I do a lot of time blocking like R in advance with like a little brain emoji, like safeguarding my time. Something else that we also do, because we're a small team and we use Slack, obviously. Something else that we do to protect each other's time is we like time, not timestamp, but we put like a little code in all of our messages that's like either like you don't have to listen to this before the end of day or it's timely or it's no rush so that we know when we need to mentally process messages in slack so we can only we can drop in there just periodically and the only other thing that I would say that I do maybe once a month or once a quarter is we do time we're pretty buttoned up about our time tracking and so we go back and it sort of keeps us honest about how our time is actually spent um and then we can sort of like adjust and time block accordingly to sort of make up for like the shortcomings of our previous”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Network of women that I have been very lucky, we're part of a group that we call Shine Crew. I think I'm supposed to like copyright or something to somebody because I think the term shine theory is what it's based on basically. But I'm very, very lucky to be like heavily influenced by April Dunford, Tara Robertson, Joanna Web, Talia Wolf, and then obviously my business partner Claire, you know, obviously changed everything for me to having that like partnership in business, I don't think I would have, I definitely, I don't think I would have understood this long. So yeah, definitely huge influence for sure.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is the worst question. I hate saying this, but it's probably my dad. I have to say my dad because he's like an entrepreneur through and through. And I remember very vividly, I worked for him for, I think, eight years early in my career. And one of the things that he always sort of said was like, it was the joy of the business. Like he didn't care what. It's like, it doesn't matter what you're selling. Like he could be selling anything, but it was the joy of entrepreneurship. And that released that with me. And so even when I was in-house, I always knew that I needed to do, you know, something on my own and be sort of in charge of that journey. And I, and his joy in it has impacted me a lot. And he was the reason why I knew I was always going to do this. Other than that, I would say I have an incredible.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I have young kids. I just bought a second property. We're like renovating like three houses right now. I do not watch movies almost ever. The only thing that I'm currently binging is YouTubers that do like DIY interior design and like Renault reason being my partner and I bought a property with four very, very old cottages like Lakefront tiny little like almost like tiny houses like little cottages. And we are like slowly renovating each of them. So my sort of fill is learning about interior design and like DIY home renovas. That's yeah.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, yeah, I enjoyed it. It was a nice sort of coming back to base a bit. I don't know if when I read it was just like, I just finished it a couple of weeks ago. It was just the timing was perfect. I feel like what's going on in the world right now and how everybody's probably feeling right now, it's a good, solid read for now.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Step by step how to do this thing. So as much as like we love going through this process with companies, I sort of took a page from April here too and that like telling the process and having people be able to rule this out and do this internally themselves has been like wildly gratifying. We do it with a training program. And this is our next sort of step in that and like, you know, getting out into the world even more. So you absolutely can do this stuff yourself. And so that process is laid on that book. And then another book that I read recently, which has nothing to do with marketing at all, but was like really nice, was 4,000 weeks.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I very, very, very rarely read marketing books. But there's two that I think are pretty foundational in the recent. So obviously awesome by April Dunford. I'm sure you've heard that one a ton. It's kind of like required reading, I would say, especially for founders. I told Abram when she first wrote, I'm like, I'm going to require every single founder I work to read her book before we work with them because it's like foundational. You have to know that. And then the other one that I really enjoyed flip side was hooked by NirAL. So that one.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Other objection we get a lot from founders in particular is because they build products to solve a problem that they had, which is cool. And it definitely makes you one of the most knowledgeable people about your solution, but products change, markets change, customers change, teams change in a ball. Not everything can live inside of your head. And there's a ton of value in getting, learning, and getting inside the heads of your best customers that like you may have been really close to the inception of the product, but if any span of time has changed, you'll always learn something new. I've never been in a scenario like this where a founder has not learned something new from their research and been able to leverage it in a way that makes their product experience better.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, one of the sort of objections that we often get to this type of work is that research takes a long time and that research can often lead to more questions and can like slow everything down. You can end up in sort of like analysis paralysis. But it doesn't have to be that way. It can be very straightforward. Honestly, in a survey scenario with Sparktoro, in just that scenario, I have lots of examples of companies where we ran surveys. It can be a couple of weeks, like two or three weeks, you can actually come out with something solid to move forward with and you don't get stuck in this like the bickering or the sort of, you know, the all those stakeholders, the too many cooks in the kitchen, like you can come to something decisive. You can get value out of that. The other thing too.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The booksh one is the, it's not even the analogy. I think that was like the original one of the original job stories that is the milkshake one.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Lives, what motivates them is very different. And so, like, that is where typically personas sort of fall down. And so would jobs be done does is help you figure out like what is that, you know, desired outcome, what is that better life that customers are seeking out? You were just the vehicle to get them there. And so that's all it is. It's like, I mean, there's so many tired analogies that I don't want to use them”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah I mean, I have influence for us definitely as Bob Mester, who's one of the original architects of Jobs Be Done. There are. Of materials online for jobs. I am not the foremost authority in jobs at all. I think it's GTBD.info is a good website. There's a bunch. Also, Bob Mesta wrote a book called Demand Side Sales that goes into it. There's also a lot the books written about jobs we've done. When Coffee McKale is one that a lot of people love, I digress. Point being that what matters is identifying what it is that customers are trying to accomplish. So demographic data doesn't matter. The classic example is like, if you look at, oh, King Charles, now the example has changed. You look at Ozzy Osborne and it was Prince Charles, the original, but now it's King Charles. If you look at those two men, they're the exact same age and live in the same area. They both have a dog. They both love cars. They both, you know, from a demographic standpoint, they are identical. But they obviously leap very different.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Those motivations, so I can, which is the desired outcome. They help me was about, I believe it was like in a way that is organized and that is shareable and like usable over time that I can like build on and really, you know, rely on over time and the desired outcome was about, I mean, this isn't going to be surprising, but like it was about getting stakeholder back in and getting people on board with and sharing and looking good, looking like a pro, right? and doing their job more effectively and driving better results for either their their own team or for their clients.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He was when you're struggling, when they're struggling to identify opportunities that aren't as obvious. So generally, when you're doing marketing research, you'll end up finding the same things over and over again. And if you are a service provider or if you're in-house for that matter and you're like tasked with always coming up with like novel and new and more and more more, you tap that pretty quickly. And so what customers were coming to them for was like, give me more. I need to impress here. Like I need more to work with. I need to identify opportunities that I wouldn't otherwise be aware of. Actually, that was exactly what it was. I helped me identify opportunity as I wouldn't otherwise be aware of. And so that, so that the customer job statement is when I am in a certain situation, help me, which is filled in by what the things that they're looking for.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A lot going on, and things are changing, and the product is evolving, and there's a lot of teams, and people are coming and going. It's easy to lose sight of that, especially when you're just trying to, you know, get shit out the door. So that messaging guide is mentally like, okay, here we are. Like this is where I'm, this is my baseline. These are my guardrails for everything that we produce. It's also really handy to hand off to copywriters, right? When you bring in, I mean, not just copywriters, lots of people that particularly when you're producing copy, providing that messaging guide is like solar platter for them.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's really helpful to get out and be like, okay, how do customers see us? And generally, you can identify the hierarchy of what is important to them, right? What is the thing that they say is most valuable about their product? What was that, you know, a how moment or what was that first value moment or what is the thing that makes you stand out over everybody else? And like it can literally be a numbers game if you take, you know, a hundred or so survey responses, you can break that down. Like here's the thing they send they cared about most. Here's the thing they said they cared about second most and third most, like not to be so paint by numbers about it, but and there's you know there's art in the science but in general you want to reflect back what they said they care about not what you”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh boy. I mean, that research and the voice of customer, I mean, I'm always going to go back to that. You can guess and you can do, you know, use your best judgment and you can use internal sort of stakeholders and the internal team knowledge. And I'm not saying that that is not valuable and that you shouldn't use that at all. You can, but it should never come before learning from and listening to your best ideal customers and using the language that they use. You want to reflect them back to them, right? That is what is going to show them that you understand the problem that they have and that your product has exactly what it is that they need. And the hierarchy of messaging is really important as well, right? So I mean, there's the classic like sometimes it's hard to see, you know, the label from inside the jar.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Here. And that message and guide rolls up to the job to be done. So it's like the job to be done is sort of like the top line. And then we've got that messaging that serves that job to be done. And then we've got the sort of operationalized customer experience with those milestones and KDIs. And then you sort of zoom in on like, where is the experience most broken right now? We already knew that for Spark Tour. We knew that we wanted to influence that first early product experience. So that's where we zoomed in. and decided on what programs they should roll out. And email onboarding was a natural, as was the checklist.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it's like here's the bones of this, right? So got a messaging and positioning guide for you. Generally, I mean, when we do them, they're like five to seven pages long. They hit on the value prop. They hit on the, you know, major competitive advantages. They hit on the major value themes that you want to focus on. Those value themes can be broken down by the emotional benefits and the functional benefits tied to the product attributes that derive that value. And so that document, and there's more that goes into it, but that messaging guide basically can be used as the baseline for all kinds of marketing, collateral, and material, but also email onboarding, right? So when they're writing their email sequences for whatever it is they're trying to solve for throughout that customer, whatever milestone they're solving for, they can use that as their baseline. Like, this is what we're going for. This is the goal.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is the thing they have a team in place, right? They've got very highly skilled, not a huge team, but highly skilled, you know, a marketer there at the helm. I mean, not the least of which is Rand Fishkin. Their CEO. So basically what we did was we gave them, it's like a framework.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, so after that point, we had a rich voice of customer document that came out of that research. We had a messaging guide for them to use, not only in their marketing materials, but also through the entire product experience and also identifying the parts of the product that were so meaningful. And actually, so they were a VP of marketing, the new VP of marketing, Amanda Mintimidad, actually rolled out checklist. They built a checklist like a product onboarding checklist and also product onboarding emails. And their trial paid doubled. Like we were like, okay, cool. You know, let us not be any help or whatever. And they're like, oh, we're good. We got this and checked in two months later and their trial page had doubled.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Hopefully short because I mean, I will say that with some of the KPIs, it's very straightforward, right? New unique website visitors or the website conversion rate that is, I mean, depending on who owns the website, that's not something that should take you a year. Like you should never be focused on only your website's conversion rate for a year. Hopefully, but these other KPIs and these other milestones, I mean, I have no disillusions about like if it impacts the product, obviously there's a lot of implications there. And so, yes, generally, once you tip over into that sort of in-app and more product experience, timelines vary widely, to say the least.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Engagement and then value growth was that they do all of that on a regular enough basis so that we know they're not like a flight risk, basically, right? So that we know that they're getting continued value from the product. And if they ever fall out of that ongoing engagement sort of measure of success, then we can, you know, trigger either one-on-one outreach, an email, whatever. I mean, obviously, it can't be an app, right? Because they're not logging into the app and can't reach them, but to help them back in and to say, hey, what's up and can we help? And is there anything that we can do and basically be proactive in getting them back in? And then value growth, I believe, is, I think it was expansion or upgrade in their case. I can't remember exactly.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it's the combination of those two things that have to happen before somebody's going to really see what this thing does. It's not that they won't get value if they don't use lists, but because we know that Sarah's ideal customers really had a ton of value out of lists, people can hang out in that stage all day long if they want to. We're not going to worry about them. We're going to worry about the people that really want the actual functionality of the real full featured tool. So that was the first value. That's how we would know that they got to product activation. And then the next one, as I mentioned before, is a combination of actually three things. So it is conducting a minimum amount of searches within a span of time, creating at least a certain number of lists. I can't remember exactly what it is, and then discovering exporting at least once. And then that is they've reached a meaningful enough threshold of producting.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, so the measure for success at the that tips somebody over into evaluation is performing their first search. So when you're on their website, it's you perform a search. It's not signing up for trial or signing for free, although it does tip you into signing up for free when you perform your first search. So signing up for getting your first search and seeing your first search results is that first sort measure. And then following that, it is for first value, it is using search again. So generally, I mean, this is very product specific, like I said, but generally a first search is like a kind of an experiment where you're sort of trying the tool on for the first time. Generally search. Plus, so that first value KPI is, I think it was five plus searches plus at least one list.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The train, but just helping them nurture them back into the product didn't really discover that product if they missed it the first time around. So it's like proactive and pushing them forward, but then also catching them if they fall. And the only way to catch them if they fall is if you're measuring something meaningful along the way. So we have like a, you know, that storyboard that we were talking about. We also have a map where it's like the experience to get them to a certain, you know, value moment, but then that win back experience to get them back in should they, you know, fall out for any reason. I mean, people get hungry and get distracted and like there's a ton of reasons why, I mean, there's a lot of stats on, you know, the percentage, I think it's like 70% of people log into an app into a product once and never come back. It's wild. So the fact that so many companies don't have some sort of win back or re-engagement always kind of blows my mind.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or whatever. I mean, you have to. I mean, it always surprises me when a team is like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. We don't do that. I'm like, what? What do you mean? So at a given milestone, unless they've reached that value moment, you can't keep them on the train to something else. Like if they have an even discovered that really, you know, to them most valuable part of their product, you need to focus on getting them to that value. Otherwise, like you can't just keep firing off emails and hoping they're going to, you know, jump back into the product as if they're going to care. So a lot of what we do is actually proactive sort of customer experiences, whether or not in app or email whatever tool to help them get to that moment within the product. And if they don't get to that moment, which is measurable, again, that's why it's a KPI, right? Then we can be sort of reactive in helping them get back in. And so identifying like, okay, not that you would say this, like to fell off.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, being able to organize the data, being able to continue to build on it and make it usable over time and also share. And then there was another feature as well, which was an exporting feature. Again, it's not that it was hidden, but it wasn't front and center enough. And so we tied KPIs to them making use of those features coupled with, you know, obviously the core feature, which is searchability. It was like pairing the search functionality with the list functionality. and then pairing the search functionality with the list functionality with the export functionality. It's a bit abstract to me just like saying the words. It's easier with a visual, but the story is basically like help them use the search functionality first right after that. Make sure that they're using lists. And if they don't use lists, let's help them get back to using it so that they get to that important critical sort of value moment. And then the same applies for.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So for I'll use Fructoro as an example just because it's the one that we started with. So for Sparkuro, the customer job, I don't remember the exact customer job statement necessarily, but for them, what they said were the parts of the product that gave them a ton of value was two specific features lists. So being able to sort of organize their findings in a way that made it not only easy for them to organize within their own files, but also share because a lot of them work with clients or stakeholders that they want to be able to share with. So lists were a specific feature that honestly was not, it was in there, but they weren't front loading the product experience with that, right? So it was, I'm not going to say it was hidden, but it wasn't front and center enough. So that was one feature that we could associate with like.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Request a demo, something like that. That's generally the struggle phase is very straightforward in terms of measurement. That's like marketers, bread and butter, that's where they live and breathe all day long. Where things start to change, though, generally when we're working with companies, is helping them figure out how should they be measuring first value or product activation and how should they be measuring actual product engagement. And generally what we do there is we can associate basically what they told us brings them the most amount of value with the product attribute or parts of the product that deliver that value. And we try to tie the KPI, obviously, to some sort of product, meaningful product usage of that key part of the product or product attribute.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so that really helps sort of tie everybody together too. And a critical part of that process obviously is identifying, you know, we have to measure success along the way. There should be a KPI for each of those stages in that customer journey. And for the most part, there won't be a big surprise on the struggle side of things. People out the world experienced the problem. How are we going to know we're doing a good job reaching them? We bring in new unique website visitors, right? In general, that would be the measure of success for the problem milestone. And then next piece of the puzzle, like, okay, once they discover that we exist, even if they are visiting, you know, reading product reviews and visiting competitor sites or whatever, we'll know we've done a good job of convincing them that we can help solve their problem and deterring the people that we don't want, right? Well, no, we've done a good job when the conversion rate on our whatever our primary CTA is on our website, whether or not it's start a trial or”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First value should look like, right? Which of that first product activation experience, whatever language you like to use, what should that look like for them? What parts of the product do you need to push right up to the front of that experience so they can get to it really, really quickly after they sign up? And then value realization obviously would be close to, if not, the desired outcome, right? Of that customer job where you're solving that customer job. And then you've got all kinds of generally what happens when I'm going through this process with teams is all kinds of ideas start to come up about what more they could be doing even like post.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, again, I'm saying that as if it applies to all customers and products, and that's not actually the case. Sometimes it's more complicated than that. But in general, that is what we've found. So that's what we did for Spark Toral customers based on the research that we did. And there's the research that we do, we basically take all the responses, we identify the critical patterns, and that's how we identify the customer job. From those critical patterns, right, if we segment down just that customer job, we can look at responses and say, okay, here's what they're likely doing when they're out in the world experiencing this problem. This is how they described the pain of their current solution. And then here's what they say about how their search for a solution started. Here's, you know, what they told us about, you know, how they started to do that research or find a solution. And then there's questions that are asked in the research, like, you know, what was the moment that convinced you that our product was going to solve this problem for you? And the answers to that question are going to tell you what your”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, we often talk about it and describe it as the story of how I met and fell in love with your product, right? It's like this documentary of like being out in the world, finding it, realizing that like, hell, yeah, this might actually solve a problem for us. This might be it, right? Getting that enough value to convince them to keep going to full value realization, to continued value to value growth.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, product for that specific customer is up for debate, but there still needs to be that moment. And then there's the growth phase, which is about the sort of continued value. So getting into frequency of usage and a healthy, building that habit, getting into a cadence that makes sense, what type of feature usage and product usage should you want to see there? And then on what frequency becomes really important. And then there's another milestone generally after that where you're like, okay, cool. they're in they're pro now what else do they need what else do they need from a product and also how else can we amplify them or work with them to you know either start teaching our tool to other people i mean there's all kinds of things that can happen about growth right that's where the sort of the promise of exponential growth success sort of comes into play”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Within the evaluation phase, I say two or three because if you have a more complex product, more complex customer is the more likely scenario, there may be more leaps of faith that they have to, or more milestones, heavier lift for you to take. So we have worked with companies where the evaluation phase has been three or four milestones. I would always default to as few as possible. So if I'm cutting it down to like lowest common denominator, I would say a first value would be the first milestone within evaluation. So you want to get them to that product activation really, really quickly. And then value realization is the milestone where you're solving that customer job. So they reach a point with your product where they're like, hell yes, this is it. And for the first time, they reach this critical threshold of product engagement. Now, what that product engagement is with your unique.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it's completely depends on the product and the customer, for that matter. I shouldn't leave that part out of it. Obviously, that's important. In general, though, what we would do is we'd break it down into a struggle phase, an evaluation phase, and a program phase. Struggle phase is their experience in the problem, life sucks, they're using the old way. Something's got to happen. They've got to solve this thing. In general, the struggle phase would break down between like out in the world experiencing the problem for the first time and another stage, which generally we call, so we call that problem. And generally, there would be another one called interest, where it's like, okay, now they're starting to shop around. They're starting to, they're getting into solutions seeking mode, right? They might be on your website. They might be on your competitors' websites. They're, you know, reading product reviews, things like that. That's like interest stage. And then there's the evaluation phase, which generally breaks down. I will say two or three.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sales should all be focused on the same customer that's not revolutionary. So this is just a sort of helpful way to do that. And like product teams know and subscribe for the most part to the jobs be done theory. So marketers should follow suit and there's a lot to be gained anyway on the marketing side. So anyway, the short of it basically is that because we knew we were focused on increasing that freedom to pay conversion rate, the next step after the job is the mapping, right? So it's identifying, okay, for this ideal customer, what are those key milestones in their relationship with our product? What are those big sort of leaps of faith is how I sort of describe it. I mean, I don't need to explain the Airbnb customer journey tells that story, right? Like, where's a value moment in this relationship? Where are they reaching value?”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Zoom out for a second, figure out who it is that you even want coming through the front door. I mean, the social media platform tool that I mentioned, the trial to pay conversion rate bumped up 40% because it was a higher qualified person coming through the front door, right? And so that it matters. So if you consume out and keep in your mind's eye that ideal customer job, that thing that you're solving for, like we're not at personas, we don't care about personas at all. They're important when you start talking about like advertising and targeting and like that demographic data that you have to know, you know, when you're doing advertising and things like that, that is not what I'm describing here at all. I find that jobs to be done too helps sort of tie and bond marketing and product and customer success together a lot more, right? Because they, you know, all three of those teams are arguably four.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. We would get to that though. Like that's a really important part of the process, but it comes after figuring out who you're even solving for, right? But it's definitely important to look at those numbers. I mean, I'm not saying don't look at the data. Obviously, you have to. They wouldn't have identified a problem had they not been looking at the data. So the challenge that happens so, so often, I mean, this happens with a lot of teams, particularly marketers all sort of victim to this like tactical way of approaching things and sort of piecemealing things to like piecemealing campaigns or programs to prove that we're doing something and we're driving up numbers and they don't take big enough sort of swings. So this is like”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We were trying to help them figure out why they're free to pay conversion rate was lower than what they wanted, right? That was the challenge they came to us with. Our traffic numbers are good. Even our signups on our website are good. Like our positioning and messaging on our website is clearly doing a good job. But once people get into the product, there's not enough of them getting to value, you know, quickly enough. I mean, they still had healthy customer base, but they knew that that number could be increased. So we knew what we were solving for.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I sort of level said that, like, just because we were prioritizing one customer job in the short term doesn't mean you can't serve that other customer job down the line. A classic example of that is like products that serve both brands and like agencies, for example. So the customer job for brands will be slightly different than agencies. And if you've got an advantage with one, you would just start with one and then you would go back after it. That's a bit of a like level up the after the fact. It's not part of the core process. It's what you would do after. But it doesn't mean you can't solve for the other customer jobs. It just means put one foot in front of the other, do a really good job on one thing first, and then we'll add that on later. I don't know if that like 100% answered your question.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They're sort of one and the same. So because we learned from Sparktoro's ideal customers, we already know that they're a fit for the product. They're they're happy, happily paying prime out of their cold dead hands customers, right? They're the customers that we want more of. So we've already validated that there's a demand from that customer base. Now, what I'm describing about choosing between two different customer jobs is really just of those ideal customers, which one, which customer job do you want to lean into? It's not that you wouldn't necessarily still be able to solve for that other customer job. It's just not the one that you would lead with. And I'm always cautious around this too, because sometimes with founders, what will happen is the, there's a”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Can help them. And then there's other criteria too. So sometimes you might want to prioritize one customer job over another if those customers congregate in a way that make them really easy to market to. That's an advantage. Or another advantage, and this was the case for SparkToro, is you have an unfair advantage with this market in some way. And so there were two different sort of customer jobs that were coming out of Sparkoro. One was more focused on marketing and service providers and marketing. The other one was more focused on like data and those data purists and those that really wanted verifiable data. Well, Spark Toro has an advantage on the marketer side more so than like on the data analyst side, right? So that was another thing too. So with that, we made the call to focus on one of those customer jobs.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“High touch, then you may want to opt for the more product led approach and the reverse is also true if you've got a robust sales team, well then you might actually be better off leveraging sales more in that scenario and might want to attend towards that. But there's that criteria that you would think through. So willingness to pay, it's really obvious. Maybe the most important one is that they have an urgent problem. So the whole painkiller versus vitamin thing, you always want, you know, selling a painkiller. So who has an urgent problem that needs solving, not something that they might have a problem with six months down the line? Who has a high retention or even expansion potential is also really advantageous for very obvious reasons. So customers who would have a long-term need for this type of product and even potentially have that need expand, right? Or change over time and evolve in ways that you envision the product can.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then, of course, what is it they're able to do now that they weren't able to do before? So, that desired outcome. So, out of that, we identified a couple of different options, like a couple of different jobs, customer jobs. And we have to prioritize one, of course, because if you start, you know, right off the bat with like, okay, we're going to solve for all of these different customers jobs, then you end up not being as resident. You can't be as effective. So we focused in on one and the way that you make a decision on which one you focus on is similar to best customers, right? So high willingness to pay, right? There's no question whether or not they would pay for a product like yours. The hand holding that they would need would be minor or less so. And I say that understanding full well the difference between product led and sales land. I'm not saying that sales lend is not good, but sometimes there's a decision to be made. If you're not, if you're not set up today to support a sales letter,”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That they remember what life was like before. So generally we say that's like in the Range, right? Because if you go to somebody that's been your customer for two years, they're just going to fill answers with like what they think might have been going on in their life. But if you ask customers who remember what life is like before, you're going to get a lot more interesting responses, right? A lot more accurate sort of depiction of what was going on. And so that's what that criteria went forward, surveyed their customers, you know, we're trying to uncover from them what was going on in their life when they were seeking out a solution, right? What happened? What was that trigger moment when they did start seeking a solution? Who did they go to? What do they talk with? What were their influences, which PS, that's what Sparksborough does, helps you identify those. But also, what were they looking for in a solution, right? What were the must-haves for them versus, you know, what were some of the anxieties that they had, some deal breakers, things like that? So basically unpacking like what is it that was critical for them in their solution?”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Product, they buy the better version of themselves, yada yada. I don't need to explain any of that, but we use that to guide our research. And with Spartur, we were in a position, and the purists will hate me saying this, but we were in a position to be able to run surveys. So yes, interviews are ideal always, but we did think that we could learn a ton from surveys to then, if needed, double down with interviews. We didn't end up actually needing to run the interviews because the surveys that we ran were pretty decisive and clear in terms of what we learned. So what we did was we identified structuro's best customers. Now, what I mean by best customers is those that get a ton of value from your product as it exists today pay, obviously. They're happy. They're low maintenance. And very importantly, they signed up for your product recently enough.”
2022-09-29 · Lenny's Podcast · Customer-led growth | Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source