YouSaid · the spoken record

Gregg Lemkau

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80
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2023-12-25
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2023-12-25
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1
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  1. “Opportunity more than anything else. So I wasn't looking to leave. I truly loved what I was doing. My last role there probably was, I don't know, I keep debating what the best job at Goldman Sachs is. It's either running investment banking or running M&A. It might have been running M&A because that was super fun. It was really about being with clients more so than managing people. And I was running it with a guy named Dandez, who's still there today. And he and I had started as analysts together in 1992, had gone through these crazy paths and were running the business together. And we were really close friends. So it was fun. I wasn't looking to leave. In May of 2020, I got a call from Michael Dell. And Michael, I'd gotten to know and respect as a client. We spent a bunch of time together when he took the company private. He then did the EMC deal. You did VMware, squeezed out, went back public. We had a battle with Carl Icon. We spent lots of time together. And then I also happen to have a home near his home in Hawaii. And so we'd spend some personal time together. So I'd gotten at least no him and his family a little bit, all of which is helpful if you're thinking about aligning with an individual as opposed to a purely institutional. Anyway.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “And then teaching you how to do that because I've gone on in my career and managed people, people would much rather know where they stand, what they're good at, what they're not good at, as opposed to kind of get smoke blown at them. And so I'd say above everything, it was that ability that talk straight and give real feedback that was quite helpful.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “Blunt talk, like giving real direct feedback. It's an amazing skill and a liberating skill, and not many people do it. I think it's actually one of the biggest things holding back people from becoming effective managers. I'd say, you know, if a place like Goldman Sachs, I'd say if you asked anybody there, everyone there would tell you their top quartile, which is mathematically impossible. But it's probably because they've all been told they're top quartile. And David would not do that. David would give you direct feedback on what you did well, on what you did poorly, what you could do better. I saw him do it with me. I saw him do it with other people. It was at the first instance, it's jarring, and then it's liberating to actually hear it. And I remember the person who ended up taking the job after me, that COO job. It was sort of a rotational job. She asked me for advice. She said, well, do you think about it? I said, listen, it's an amazing experience. You're going to learn a ton if you're the kind of person who needs positive reinforcement. Hire someone to do that for you. Like when you get home from work, just hire someone at the door is going to say you did a great job today because you're probably not going to get that from David. But if you actually want to get much better at what you do, he will be incredible in terms of giving you direct.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “Multiple different places. And once you did that once or twice, then actually the world opened up because anytime there was an interesting opportunity where they thought they needed somebody to go build something, I would usually get the first call to go do that. So I think that was helpful. And then the other piece, it's you hear about the hours of investment bankers. You work a lot, but ultimately anything you're going to spend that much time doing you better like. And that's what I always tell anyone who wants to start an investment banking or think about doing it. You got to like what you do, whether you like the ultimate job or client service or giving advice or the ultimate industry. But if you don't like what you do, you can't be good at it. And just for whatever reason, I liked it. I love doing transactions. I love being trusted advisor to clients and trying to solve problems for them, whether it was two years into it or 28 years into it. It was always interesting enough and energizing to me to keep me going.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “Interesting from the perspective from the outside versus the inside, I truly think it's a special firm. I think that people are unbelievably talented, and I think the culture is special. It really is a culture of teamwork and the whole place is driven by the better we do together as a firm, the better we'll all do individually. That was an environment being an athlete my whole life. I loved competing in a teamwork-oriented environment where we had a whole bunch of people kind of all going in the same direction. People always say, gosh, how'd you get to where you got to? I don't know is half of the answer. There's a little bit of luck versus skill and almost sliding doors had I not gone to LA would have met Jane Sykes, where I've developed the same way I did had I not taken this job. And so you never quite know. And if you think about the path I took in my career and you look back, you say, man, you were really calculating. You made all these moves along the way. None of them were calculated. It was all a random walk as to how I ended up in each space. But I'd say the one lesson through all of it looking back was embracing change, was actually showing that you've got the ability to be successful and impactful.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “Long of a career that you had at Goldman. There's always what seems from the outside, either navigating politics or getting yourself in the right place. What did you learn about working with an organization like that?”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “We finally got it where we were able to land the plane and get the whole thing done. But it was impressive, like Sun Tzu style art of war, but we finally did get a deal done. At the end of the deal, I had a text from Travis and he said, hey, I'd like to meet you for a drink. You know, we'd been at war for a while. It was dicey. So part of me was thinking he was going to put a hit out on me or something. And so I ventured up and go have a drink with him. And classic Travis Fashion goes, hey, for an investment banker, you're okay. You probably even earned your fee here. That was about as high praise as you could get from anybody. And initially, it actually began a relationship where after he and I for months had been at odds have become friends and the subsequent worlds have gone on to MSD, actually become an investor behind him in his next venture because I do things that are really impressive entrepreneur. But it was an auspicious beginning to a relationship with that.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “The benchmark group and then Travis, who'd made each other a lot of money, but they were, I've never quite seen anybody at odds. And so it'd work out all the details. He'd finally get to a transaction that worked. And invariably, you'd go to one side, you'd go to benchmark and say, all right, we got a deal. And they said, as Travis agreed, I said, yeah, they're like, well, then we don't agree. Because if Travis agrees to this, there's something we're missing that's bad for us. And you kind of go back to the drawing board, you renegotiate the deal again, you'd go to Travis and say, hey, we're done. We're all signed up here. And say, well, does benchmark agree? And we're like, yeah. He's like, well, God, then it can't be a good deal for me. And like for months, that would go on it. It was borderline crazy.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “You think about all these founders, I'd say Elon is just next level genius, like sheer genius, I think generational, if not multi-generational genius. Travis, I'd say, is just the most impressive executor I'd ever seen. I mean, anyone who builds a business model at its core is taking on the taxi and limousine commissions in every single city and winning the guy's got to be able to execute and be relentless. My role was actually at that point, it was advising the board. It was when the board and Travis were having a fight and benchmark and Travis in particular having a fight. And at the same time, we were trying to take capital in from Softbank. And so it was negotiating a deal with Softbank, who in classic Softbank fashion was saying either you take all of our money or we're going to go invest it in Lyft and kill you. It wasn't like a one-friendly negotiation. So you're trying to hold all of this stuff together while effectively negotiating Travis's exit in a way that made everything work. And it was as complicated a thing, I think, as I've done, partly because he had two people who'd been so successful or the two groups.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “Challenging in some way, and you're going to have to get some of your public shareholders to roll. You may have to do deals with sovereign wealth funds, and that may mean you need to go do a deal with China or you need to go build a gigafactory in Jeddah, or you have to have private equity people on the board. But there's a bunch of other constraints you're going to have to have. And I wouldn't say we were trying to talk about it, but we were trying to let them know that maybe the short sellers aren't that bad of a thing. And we went through the long thing and he said, I kind of like it the way it is now. Let's just kill the whole thing. And so that was it. It was like a week of craziness. And then he went back to running Tesla. It was a wild time. I think he left that meeting at two in the morning and went back to the factory. And he was really redesigning the assembly line at the time. You forget Tesla's now taken off in such an incredible way, but you forget there were moments there when it was really his genius and fortitude that kept that company alive and let it go on and thrive.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “On the wall, and he said, Like, here's Mars, and here's how I'm going to colonize it. Never seen Mars before. It looked like it was Mars. It could have been Ventura County or something like that. But he had an actual plan on how to colonize Mars. And it made you think this guy thinks bigger than anybody else and he is not messing around when he puts his mind to something. He's really going to try to go do it. We then plotted for hours into the early morning how we could actually think about raising the capital to go take Tesla Private, which is a pretty hard task at the time. So we said, all right, give us a week. We're going to kind of go run around. We ran around the world. And by hook or by crook, we basically came back to Elon and said there's a path to do it. It is not easy, but there's a path. And you're going to have to do a bunch of”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “Well, do you believe that humans deserve to live continuously? And I kind of pause because it's a little bit of a pet peeve when people answer a question with a question, but I was like, okay, I'll bite. Yes, I do. And he said, well, the short sellers that are taking away all of my time and focus, I've got to try to run Tesla and I've got to try to run SpaceX. And if I look at what's going on in SpaceX, I have a whole bunch of shareholders like Fidelity and T-Row and no one really bothers me. I get to run my company privately. I'm doing great things. We're launching rockets. The government loves us. Everybody loves us. Over here, I've got shareholders like Fidelity and T-Row and others in Tesla, but I also have all these short sellers, and they're out to get me and they're posting false information. And it's a massive constraint of my time. And it's taking away from either my ability to build these cars that are going to save the world. Or if the cars can't save the world, my ability to launch these rockets to Mars, because if we're going to ruin this planet, we need to go colonize Mars. So I kind of listened, which all makes logical sense. I kind of chuckle a little bit. He says, do you not believe me? I was like, no, I fully believe. And he says, let me go show you something. We walk into the next room. He's got this massive mess.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Say one of the great benefits, especially in the last handful of years, and having spent a career of 28 years around the technology industry, has it really evolved, just had the privilege of working with Michael Dell, for example, Mark Benioff, Daniel Eck, Jack Dorsey, Elon Musk, Travis Kallenick. And so it's sort of just fascinating personalities building really world-changing companies in a lot of ways. So interestingly, Elon wasn't a close client of mine, but I got called into a situation when he was attempting to take Tesla private. This is back in 2018. And I remembered vividly because I was moving my daughter into college. She was a freshman at USC. It was freshman fall weekend. And Elon put out his infamous tweet around 420 funding secured. Then he called the bankers, which was slightly out of order. So we went up. We had a meeting in his house at 10 o'clock. A handful of us went there to go figure out what's going on. How can we help? I remember the first logical question I asked this. First of all, why do you want to go private? And Elen looks right back at me and he says,”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “I could understand it. I probably couldn't speak it that well. But the French love to speak French in meetings when they think there are people who don't understand French in the meetings. And so they would be talking openly about me, everyone in the room not thinking. And you kind of have to sit there and passively and not react, but hearing everything they're saying, which is always entertaining. And then you leave the room and you tell your colleagues what they were saying about you. And you realize they probably don't like you that much.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “A few moments I'd say every Sunday night before I'd go to bed just given the time difference, I'd call back to my friend Stephen Schurr, who was a partner and was in New York at the time and really close to the action. There's a couple Sunday nights in a row. We're like, I don't know what's going to happen when you wake up tomorrow. It was reasonably scary. There was a moment I remember sitting with my wife right around Thanksgiving at our dining room table and just kind of looking at each other. I'm like, I think Limited had gone under at the time and she's like, we could just be totally wiped out, but got four great kids and we got you and me. It's going to be okay. And you realize it is going to be okay. And then on the client side, people would joke around New York about, yeah, you go to cocktail parties and you don't tell anybody what you do anymore. You try going through border control. You go through customs and you're the investment banker with the American passport. You would get grilled. You sort of say, I'm in finance and to kind of ask and then finally get down to the fact you were a Goldman Sachs investment banker. And they basically looked at you if it wasn't you that caused the financial crisis, personally, you definitely knew the guy that did. But there was one great moment I was in France and I'd taken French all the way through high school and in college.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “Because you go out there while you're probably the pariah to society and you go and build relationships with clients who are predisposed to not want to like you and probably blame you for the world collapsing. But you keep investing and you spend time and you bring good ideas and really build close relationships. So I ended up being over in London for five years. I did three years as tech media telecom. I then did two years running global M&A. At the end of five years, it was really a moment of do you stay there forever because my kids were of the age about to go into high school and I was going to have a kid in high school for what seemed like forever as I've got four children. So we took the opportunity to come back, came back to New York, was running M&A for a couple more years, then took the role of running global investment banking. That was what I did my last handful of years before I left Goldman.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “How to be a manager. I mean, he was a really good runner of businesses, and it was a skill I didn't really have. I was so focused on my client time and I really got a great opportunity to spend time with David helping to run the division. Did that for a year. And one of the key things we were trying to implement at the time was driving the business more globally, really trying to build out our businesses. And so at the end of a year of doing that, he said, if we really want to live by this global strategy, why don't you move to London and help run our tech media telecom group out of London? So I went to London. I started commuting in maybe the beginning of 2008. I moved over there, the middle of 2008. My family moved over the fall of 2008, and then the world stopped. It was a harrowing time to be in London as an American investment banker as the financial crisis was hitting, probably even more acutely so being a Goldman Sachs investment banker. It was wild. Those early days of the financial crisis were scary, but it also ended up being incredibly character building.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “When David Solomon actually had just been named head of investment banking at Goldman came by my office and he said, hey, we don't really know each other that well. He'd been in a different part of the business. He was still relatively new to Goldman. And he said, I'd like to come talk to you. So I went to his office and he said, I've just taken over investment banking. What I really need is a COO to help me run the division. And I think you're the right guy to do it. And I looked at him and I said, that sounds horrible. And he's like, what are you talking about? This is an amazing opportunity. We'll work hand in hand. I said, All I like to do is do deals. All I want to do is be with my clients. I don't want to spend any time internally. It sounds honestly like a dreadful thing to do. He kind of looked flummoxed and said, well, I kind of need you to do it. And why don't you just work with me during the day on strategy stuff and helping to run the business? And then at night, you can do all your client stuff all you wanted on the weekends. Stupid me. I said, okay, that's fine. So I basically did two jobs for a full year. But I'd say that was another key inflection point because what David really taught.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Those and doing MA. So I'd fly out there and advise these companies on MA, and eventually it was a big enough opportunity that a few of us ended up moving out there to start up the tech M&A business. And it's fascinating. It was a guy named Mark McMorris, who went on to go work at General Atlantic for a long time. And then Robert Smith, who eventually went on to go found Vista Equity and me, the three of us went out there all the same associate class. Like three musketeers started up that business. And it was great. And it was booming for a while, late 90s, early 2000s. transactions happening left and right meeting interesting cool entrepreneurs and then that came crashing down when the tech bubble came crashing down i came back to new york and then moved from our technology business to our healthcare business and at the time i don't think i knew anything about healthcare other than i think i'd been to the hospital when i was born and maybe when my first kid was born that was about it but there was a lot more happening in healthcare than there was in tech and it was a big opportunity to kind of lead a business i did that for a number of years until gosh about 2007”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “Tech market started the pickup. We had a team out in the West Coast taking these companies public. And then you needed to figure out what do you do with the proceeds or as the stock valuations kept going up and they were doing stock for stock pulling of interest transactions. How do you think about”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “I'm thinking they're no longer asking. There was no more inflection at the end of the question. And kind of on a whim, I said, sure, it was unbelievably fortuitous because I got to know this guy, Gene Sykes, who was a partner at the firm in 1992, is still there, I think is probably the best M&A banker of multiple generations and ended up being a mentor of mine. So that was just a great opportunity to work directly with someone who became a big influence on my career. I did that for a while. I came back to New York still doing M&A deals for a number of years and started to do technology deals. And so this was before everything was set up in industry groups the way it is today, but you did one or two tech deals and all of a sudden you were a tech expert. I spent a bunch of time going out to the West Coast. This is now mid to late 90s.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “So I started as an analyst in the M&A department. There's probably 100 people doing M&A deals at Goldman in 92, started New York and was just doing deals, was doing that for, gosh, about nine months, 10 months, and someone came into my office and said, hey, saw on your resume you'd spend some time in California. Would you think about going to the LA office? And I said, thanks, but no thanks. I'm with all my friends in New York. Life's great. And then the next day, somebody came by my office and said, hey, we really need an analyst to go out to LA. What do you think about going to our LA office? And I said, God, these Goldman Sachs people don't know what they're talking about. I already said no to that guy. Thought a little strange. Remember the next day, someone said, hey, Gene Sykes, who's the partner in the LIFE is going to be in New York tomorrow and he wants to meet with you about going to the LA office. And I was like,”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “And there was paralegal three years of law school, and then 100 years to do the cool job. And I said, forget it, I'm out. A couple friends that were doing banking that seemed a little bit more interesting and randomly went all around and interviewed a bunch of places and was fortunate enough to get a job at Goldman Sachs. And so that was my circuitous path to Goldman Sachs where I started in 1992.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “And it was interesting because it exposed me to the deal world and what Joe Flom was doing at the top of Skadnarp's looked amazing. CEOs were going in and out of his office and it looked kind of fun. He at the time was probably in his 60s. He looked like he was 100 to me.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “It's now senior spring, and I did not have a job. So I decided, I think on this spot I was going to be a lawyer, but I hadn't taken the LSET. So I scrambled around and I got a job as a paralegal at ScadenARPS. Great big law firm. My plan was go there for a year, take the LSET, go to law school. And then I got inside of Skadnarps, and this is now way back in 1991. Big law firm, it became very clear that the learning curve of a paralegal flattened out quickly. I mean, this was back in the days of photocopying of redlining, not with a computer program, but actually a red marker and a ruler.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “Until about my senior spring, that was my plan. In my senior spring, I remember sitting outside my fraternity getting some sun and hanging out. And someone came out and said, your parents are on the phone. And I said, my mom or my dad. They said, no, your parents are on the payphone inside. So I walked in and both my parents were on the payphone and they very gently said, Greg, it's been great watching you play soccer your whole life. It's been really fun supporting you for four years at Dartmouth. But basically we just paid for an Ivy League education. You should probably go get a job. It was like really gentle and nice, but they were so right. It kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, okay, I should probably go get a job.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “So I started at Goldman in 1992, actually, maybe even I'll back up as to how I got there. It was not the traditional apply to the analyst program when you were a sophomore in college and then start that path, which everyone seems to be on. Went to Dartmouth College. I played soccer at Dartmouth. And up until my senior year at Dartmouth, my plan was to play professional soccer. And that would. To think I was really good at soccer. It actually was more about me wanting to defer adulthood and go mess around for a while. But I had a plan to go play pro soccer in Zimbabwe. A friend of mine a couple years. I had to be gone and done that. He'd blazed the path.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “Advantages and investment capabilities. We then turn to MSD's recently announced merger with BDT partners, including the rationale, process, and integration of the businesses. We close with a look into the future of the transformed organization. Please enjoy my conversation with Greg Lemkal. Greg, thanks for doing this”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “Guess on today's show is Greg Lemkow, the CEO of MSD Partners, the investment firm with Roots as Michael Dell's family office. MSD was formed in 1998 to manage $400 million of Michael's capital. In the ensuing 25 years, that initial $400 million has grown to north of $20 billion. Greg joined MSD two years ago after a 28-year career at Goldman Sachs, where he rose to co-head of investment banking, served on the firm's management committee, and was widely considered one of a few candidates to succeed David Solomon as Goldman's CEO. Our conversation covers Greg's career path that Goldman and lessons learned, including entertaining stories about his work with such fascinating entrepreneurs as Elon Musk and Travis Kalanik. We discuss his decision to join MSD, the firm's history, objectives, competitive advice,”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “Opinions expressed by Ted and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Capital Allocators or their firms. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Clients of capital allocators or podcast guests may maintain positions in securities discussed on this podcast.”

    2023-12-25 · Capital Allocators · 2023 Top Episode #5: Gregg Lemkau – The Evolution of MSD, EP.291 · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source