YouSaid · the spoken record

Hanno Sauer

lines on the record: 44
first: 2024-09-23
most recent: 2024-09-23
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Taking it seriously, but also saying, I think that may be not a good idea. That may be a good idea, but it's a bit too much, that may be a good idea, but it's not really based on proper information and so on and so on.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Very understandable that, like I said, humans are reflective creatures, they are thinking creatures in a way that animals just aren't, and we think about where do we want to go, where are we headed, what are the ideals that we want to bring our society closer to. And the work program is one attempt to do that, an attempt that is worth taking seriously, but that's at the same time flawed also because it may be in some cases may be impatient, in some cases may be excessive, in some cases maybe based on false empirical assumptions and so on and so on. And so that's what I try to do in the book as well, is to kind of like provide the fairest assessment of what's going on with that right now that I could come up with. I don't know if I succeeded, but I try to strike that balance between”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which means are they accepted by society by what part of society how quickly are they accepted by society? How purely are they accepted by society? What is the counterweight of the backlash that these ideas confront maybe regrettably, but that's a figure that you need to take into account as well in your sort of cost-benefit analysis? So I think...”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now there is this impetus to sort of a kind of moral impatience, as I say, in the book, that don't we know what a just society is supposed to look like these days, nowadays? We do know that the color of your skin and the family you were born into shouldn't matter for how your life goes, right? And I think that's a very, very good idea that almost everyone accepts and should accept. But there's still a very, very complex question when it comes to how do you move this type of society that we do in fact have right now, how do we move that closer to that ideal and get various types of suggestions and they are confronted with reality.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It seems very hard to deny to me that there are lots and lots of Unjustified advantages in society. I think it's not serious to deny that, right? So just where you are born in what country globally, right? Different problems that afflict the sexes, different problems connected to people's class background, political power, money, skin color and so on and so on, that there are these Problems and injustices in society, that seems to be To deny that doesn't seem to be very serious to me.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Development that's currently underway of dealing differently or reckoning differently with social inequality and disadvantage and racism, sexism, marginalization, and so on and so on. And I think I try to be kind of fifty one percent sympathetic to that right so I don't think I mean in a way I would like to ask you some people think this the book I wrote is kind of anti-woke and some people think it still woke and it's and that's exactly the result that I was going for so that's that's that's mission accomplished to me but I think that the woke program I take that very seriously as Another attempt, another imperfect attempt, to think about how can we move forward Getting our society closer to the ideals and principles that we articulate That specifies how we want to live together.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Across very clearly in the last chapter very evident in the book also. I think it's all messy, it's all imperfect, it's all we have to make do with the cards that we've been dealt by previous generations and so on and so on. So none of it is absolute. It's all contingent and path dependent and so on and so on and so on. I think that's just a fact. At the same time you mentioned, I like this term the woke program, right? So this is stuff that everyone's been talking about. It's probably a bias on my behalf because that's the stuff that I've been reading about. But it's very, very prominent in discourse, in political discourse, social discourse and so on.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the privacy of their home. So basically, I think when we look at the history of social change and cultural evolution and moral progress or moral change, one possible result is a pretty high degree of design skepticism when it comes to coming up with solutions or institutions for how we should live together because not very many of those solutions work and they may not work because they don't allow for the kind of scalability of society that we are seeing with all its benefits. Now we could of course try to sort of go back, right? Go back to smaller scale societies with simpler life and maybe not hunter-gatherer. societies but societies that are more in touch with nature and fellow human beings, but it's not like that wouldn't have costs that probably most people would find very, very prohibitive.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The bottleneck when it comes to implementing a functioning societies is not on the supply side, right? There are lots of ideas how to do that. It's that almost nothing works. And there are a great multitude of social arrangements and cooperative structures that do work, but it's very, very small compared to what people would come up with.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, well, that's the trick. That's what we want. That's what's so difficult. That's what's so difficult. I like this line that...”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“alienated forever in these types of societies, incurably alienated from that. The problem is that I think there are very, very good reasons for thinking that the kinds of ideas that you describe, maybe we can scale down the way we run society, make it more bottom-up, make it more democratic, perhaps.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Not at home, we don't feel at home about modern society, right? There is this yearning for a kind of life that gives us, that we recognize as of our own making. And the institutions that we live in Basically, not of our own making. I mean, we have made them, of course, they are socially constructed in a very real sense, right? They're not handed down to us by natural law, but we have made them happen in processes of social change and cultural evolution, but they feel often they don't make sense. You feel like, isn't there another way? And I think that is often an illusion. That is often a feeling that's very understandable because the psychology that we have literally inherited is not made for that kind of life. It's made for small groups. It's made for being in communities with shared values where people kind of know each other, where you can get together this cliche, like around the fire, and you say, let's do it this way. And modern society is very much not like that. And there is a real cost to that, right? The cost of feeling.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It can feel like it can appear that the people who cannot just feel alienating for yourself, but it can appear that life in general for everyone involved in these societies is alienated in some way. It doesn't feel fully human. It feels like people are removed from their abilities and from exercising control over how their life goes and from their work and from the product of their work and so on and so on and so on. And I think this is all there's a sense in which all of this is correct. Because these institutions they are so large and anonymous and often they function in such an intransparent way and in a way that doesn't immediately intuitively make sense that we are sort of”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so the very final point I'm not so sure what you mean, but I think what goes to the heart of the question is And this is a thing that comes up in the book repeatedly, is the so-called scalability of cooperation. I get that modern society, like you said, they're not just very large, but they are also organized in a specific way with centralized government and bureaucracy and administration and laws and customs and conventions. And all these institutions. And it feels Living in these societies can feel unsatisfying and alienating.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think the linear narrative is false, but I do think that Grab and Wengro, for instance, they get it totally wrong in the sense of we really do not know any way of building societies beyond a certain scope and size without having a significant forms of inequality and hierarchy with all the problems that brings. So I think there's also in these more recent attempts to do justice to indigenous communities and the human past, this overcorrection going on. And I think we may just have to live with certain types of inequality and hierarchy if we want to live in certain groups of a certain size.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What we have, right, the sisters, there's no way around it. So I think it's sort of like overcorrecting in the direction of thinking that modern societies are sort of like per se the bad ones and less developed is already a bit of a but i mean technologically less developed and economically in sanders um are therefore perfectly innocent that's also not true and it's fine to state that fact And now there's also been very recently maybe you're thinking of Grab and Wengro wrote this book, The Dole of Everything, who tried to make this point very forcefully that this whole narrative of we're moving from small-scale society that are very egalitarian towards ever larger societies and the price we pay for that is hierarchy and inequality and so on and so on, that that linear narrative is false.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because of the colonial horrors, instead sort of romanticizing other cultures. This sort of like benign racism kind of point that these sort of like seemingly bucolic and naive and simplistic cultures are totally fine in every way. And that's also not true. Human beings are human beings. In a way, everyone's normal, you know, people just like live very differently. But there is no culture that is perfectly innocent and is innocent and in harmony with nature. You always get intergroup conflict. You always get exploitation of resources. You always get the danger of social collapse. You always get oppression and hierarchy between genders or between ethnicities or whatever. So there are just different degrees of badness, I suppose.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of managing their lives under different conditions, very cold, very warm, very abundant, very scarce, and so on and so on and so on. Very large groups, very small groups, very mobile groups, very sedentary groups and so on and so on. And we do see that there's no simple story from this to that, and that's the end of it. At the same time, we have also, I think, in some degree overcorrected in the direction of, and this is frequently noted,”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Learn the hard way, mostly by the victims of that attempt, but he was also intellectually learned by the perpetrators even. So I think nothing about progress ideas or the idea that there can be moral improvement forces you to accept that conclusion or forces you to think that that's permissible and I think it isn't permissible. And that's another reason why these sorts of narratives have become unpopular because in fact during the Enlightenment they have often led people to say, oh, these are primitive peoples and these are savages and so on and so on and they are just not as developed yet, right? You're right that when you look at how people live across the globe, first of all, it's amazing how humans are able to live in such diverse or under such diverse conditions. And all human groups have some sort of way of dealing with that.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Inherent in the idea that moral improvements are possible and sometimes real that would license that type of conclusion that therefore you can go to other places and try to force people to accept a certain way of living. Also for the reason that you have alluded to which is that sometimes people just live differently. The fact that in modern economically developed industrial England or Japan or the US or Germany people live a certain way and on the basis of certain norms and values doesn't mean that it's a good idea to try to export these values to other places if need be by force. I think that was also something that was”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Very wrong it has been recognised as morally very wrong even by many contemporaries at the time. So when you think about The Conquisadoris or any kind of European explorer. Arriving at some shore, and saying, Do you want to live like we do? And they said, no, we don't. And they said, then you don't have bad news for you. That's another reason why this sort of like justified, I think, anti-colonial attitude has also led to a reluctance to think about history in terms of the raw improvements. Because when you say improvement, you say they are better than they are. And that may, I think it actually doesn't, but it was taken to license interventions ranging from missionaries to I think, but there's nothing...”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just acknowledge that. I think that's just true. In fact, I think it's another reason why the sort of progress narratives became unpopular is because when you accept the idea that there could be progress, it's not, you're not very far away from then judging human groups in terms of these are better and these are worse. And if you do that, then you are not that far away from saying, okay, these groups are worse, so we need to bring them the good news, right? And we need to tell them this is actually the right way. And if they don't conform or if they don't accept it, if they reject it for their own cultural reasons or it could be anything, then we're going to bring out the guns, right? And in many cases, this has happened. This was morally...”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If we look at the data soberly, we can see that there seem to be some mechanisms in place right now that lead to certain types of developments that we think are morally desirable. This can be day rights. It can be female emancipation. It can be the comparative reduction of global poverty and so on and so on. If you look at the data, there are many improvements which are very laudable. And that has led to a bit of a removal of that lack of credit for teleological accounts over the past. It's very recent, I guess 10 years.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Psychological and political social reasons due to the twentieth century. And it's a bit of an interesting question why at least the very modest attempts in that direction have been reanimated somewhat over the past years. So I have this whole library at home of this genre of book that says things are better than you think, right? There is Hans Rosling and Easterbrook and Stephen Pinker and so on and so on. All of these people who try to say yeah yeah I mean the point is well taken we don't think that history is not contingent we don't think history is inevitable we don't think there are these deterministic forces guiding history into some sort of moral perfection or some sort of moral endpoint of everything's kumbaya but still we can”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Been in the business of trying to tell these large scale stories about how human society develops in Jung Habermas or Nicholas Lumann or Pierre Boudieu or Anthony Giddens and so on and so on. So people from all types of traditions and with all types of intellectual inclinations still came up with these narratives. But they weren't anymore about we are moving towards a goal and the goal is sort of morally good in some way, but it became a purely descriptive thing. And the normative idea that we are headed towards moral improvement, that became discredited, I think, for very, very understandable.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Comparatively less popular in philosophy, for instance, where people used to come up with these big systems, right, these sort of like explaining the whole world kind of systems literally like in Hegel or something, it's about the whole world and the deep metaphysical structure of thinking and nature and so on in society. And that's to some extent also moved into other disciplines, right? So sociologists, for instance, they have still”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Large scale cruelty and genocide that were made possible at the same time, that's sort of the dialectic of enlightenment, made possible by modern bureaucracy and technology and rational planning. That was the thing that this sort of wicked toxic combination of rational planning in the service of Obs Cruelty, right? And that, I think, is something that shocked people a lot. And that did, I think, most of the job when it comes to discrediting the naive enlightenment view. And then you also have this effect that Grand narratives became a”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Even the most extreme forms of barbarism and moral regress. So you can have the most advanced cultural context of science and innovation and art and literature and what have you that doesn't prevent you. Definitively, at least Doesn't prevent you from descending into these types of. Catastrophes. That's a lesson, I think, that was learned in the 20th century. And much of the second half of the 20th century, I think, has been about processing that fact and trying to implement somewhat better institutional safeguards against that happening again. Against that kind of.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Be on a path towards improvement, right? That was the idea for the longest time. And I think it's understandable that when you are in that moment, you feel like, yes, if only we leave behind this heritage that has kept us down and these power structures also that have kept us down, we are headed in a good direction. And it's not a very original point. It's in fact a deeply unoriginal point, but I think it's still true that a huge shock, of course, to that narrative was the Holocaust. That has been a globally an incredibly morally intellectually politically epistemically shocking moment where people saw, and I think this is correct, that There are no definitive safeguards against”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Amelioration. And I think that was very, very understandably and I think rationally almost, that became the narrative of very broadly speaking the enlightenment because the idea that people had was that we are in this moment right now and we can sort of see that if we cast away superstition and arbitrary authority and unfounded religious ideologies that I have no basis in evidence and no basis in reality, it is purely contingent, some guy just made this up in the Middle East at some point or whatever. If we cast those away and instead we use our shared human rationality and science and experiment and mathematics and rationality and political movements We will”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the various things going on. One thing is that, again, the teleological view was not just a view that we are headed in a certain direction, but also usually that that direction would be a direction of moral improvement, would be one of morality.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Guidance when it comes to thinking about at least the near future. I mean, it's not really possible to predict the future full stop, but it's not really even possible to meaningfully specify what the future is going to be or where societies are headed 10 years from now, 2050, 100 years from now. But we can say something about these are trends that are underway. This is of the direction that is more likely than that direction and so on and so on.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't know if that's a word, but history is inevitable. But it's also path dependent, which means that any step we've made in the past may narrow down and constrain the options that are available to groups and societies and nations and humanity as a whole in the future. That's in a way bad news because it could mean that we can't reach any sort of arbitrary ideal that we may want to reach. But it also means that history, whilst being contingent and path dependent, it also has certain non-random and non-arbitrary”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that future is sort of preordained. It's set in stone, so to speak, and we are just puppets in this game, and we are we may have our individual intentions and ends, but ultimately they don't decide the show. But we are moving towards some sort of inevitable. And I think that type of teleology means it's goal directed. I think that has been fallen out of fashion, and rightly so, but there may be somewhat more moderate and naturalistically scientifically respectable versions of that kind of claim. And what you get when you think like that about the direction of history is that there is a huge element of contingency and the opposite of inevitability. There's a huge element of inevitability.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so there is this question that's been very, very popular and animated a lot of our intellectual tradition, not just in the West, either in modern societies or in ancient societies, but across the globe is the question of does history have a direction. And so the strongest answer to that is, yes, it has a direction. And there is that inevitability that there is this universal march into one future.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And grapple with them and couch them in terms that they will understand. And that's how you get also differences and new developments in the intellectual realms, so to speak.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A new kind of moral vocabulary that will facilitate the interaction between people who don't identify themselves necessarily so much as members of a nation or a tribe or whatever, or an ethnicity, but it requires a kind of vocabulary that sees people as just anyone else, right? And so whenever a change like that is happening in this case, the transition to modern institutions of science and commerce and politics and so on and so on, a moral vocabulary follows and that moral vocabulary also does its job when it comes to enabling and supporting and scaffolding that kind of development that's already underway. So it's always a feedback loop between certain types of unplanned non-deliberate super individual changes that are already going on and people trying to grasp them.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This road. And so it's not that the intellectual side is irrelevant either, but we can learn a lot from why it is that people in a certain point in time are starting to articulate moral norms in a certain way. So one example could give for that is that I think it's no accident, for instance, that people are starting to use a slightly more universalist moral vocabulary. At a certain point in time when interactions among strangers become more prominent and more relevant in society. So when you have sort of like the transition to what we now perhaps refer to as modernity or modern society, certain types of social institutions become more important. Political institutions, economic institutions, scientific institutions, and they require”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, so the way we articulate morality to ourselves, to our fellow human beings, the values that we espouse, the principles that we rely on, the demands that we see as binding, and so on and so on, the values that we cherish and embrace and that we take as guiding our lives, they are not powerless either. They may be in some sense epiphenomenal, as philosophers sometimes like to say. They may come later, so to speak. It doesn't mean that they have no role to play because we are conscious beings, we are reflective beings, we think about how we do live, how we want to live, and how we ought to live. And all of these reflections and the sort of intellectual digestion of these social changes in the structure of living that go on, they do play a role also in guiding us towards, we should pursue this line, we should go down.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And from the Codex or Hamurabi to the categorical imperative to John Rawls' theory of justice, that's sort of like the written bracket. But I think many, many, many interesting aspects of our morality have evolved before humans started to, not before humans started to think about them consciously, but before humans started to write them down and to sort of keep track of them in writing. So many of the concepts and ideas that I think are useful and that I employ to decipher this history of morality and this history of our moral infrastructure are inspired and digested from philosophical concepts and philosophical ideas and ideologies and theories and frameworks and so on and so on. But I think if you want to go back very far, you have to do without moral philosophy narrowly speaking.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the Marxist sense, but I'm quite sympathetic to that basic idea, which is Hegelian, which is Marxist, that the thinking comes sort of afterwards, and you grasp in intellectual terms what is already underway or what's already happened and social structures, I think, and the changes that these structures undergo, they tend to be, I think, primary when it comes to also explaining these philosophical developments. Now, part of the fact that I'm not in the business of writing a history of moral philosophy is that moral philosophy is sort of part of the written record. And that written record inevitably can't go back very far because in terms of all of human history, it's just a very, very recent episode that we started to write down what the rules are and how we want to live together. There's maybe a couple thousand years only.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, yeah, many, many have. There are lessons from human and Hegel and Nietzsche alongside non-philosophical contributions from Darwin and other people. People sometimes ask me this question, and I'm wondering about that myself, to what extent the story that I'm presenting is sort of like historically materialist. What that would mean is sort of who's in the lead, is it more material, economic, technological changes in the trenches on the ground and in the real world that are primary or that do most of the driving of history? Or is it more in our ideas and in our scientific developments, in our intellectual developments? I think I lean towards the sort of more material side. I wouldn't call myself a historical materialist in the...”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The vast majority of that codification is going on implicitly or unconsciously or sort of in the background of how we interact. But in principle, the account is that morality is not something that's in our heads. It's not a set of principles that we have. If anything, principles are sort of articulations of part of our normative infrastructure, as I like to call it. But I think we owe almost all of our morality to processes of change, to processes of biological evolution, cultural evolution, social change, and some minor part of it perhaps deliberate design, but in general morality, I think, is not thought up in the drawing room. In the armchair, it's something that has a History, it's something that evolves and that is part of our sort of heritage as the kind of being, the kind of animal that we are.”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, we are done We can stop right now. That was very good. Perfect. Thanks for the summary. You're right that we are, in a sense, codifying morality. I mean, codifying doesn't mean that it's explicit in any way. Much of it...”
2024-09-23 · Intelligence Squared · A History of Good and Evil, with Hanno Sauer · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT