YouSaid · the spoken record

Helaine Olen

lines on the record: 91
first: 2016-03-24
most recent: 2016-03-24
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Right. And I was like, what if it doesn't go up like that? And one of the issues that it's actually crept in is one of the reasons the number is going down now, is because dividends have been cut in more than cut in half since the early 1980s.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That realization. This was a gradual realization over a number of years. I don't think I had a moment where I woke up and said, oh my God, this is awful. But what I do remember is even when I was doing money makeover, I remember the thought would creep into my head, like the stock market. This is really for rich people. It wasn't just that like $10,000 really can't turn into a million dollars. It was more this idea that I understood instinctively that this was going to be careening all over the place. Know this idea that, well, what if it doesn't go up at the time they were claiming 10% average annual return, as you might remember? With dividends.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, just how in the pocket of the financial services sector so much of it is it didn't even occur to me when I first got into it at all”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Unless you have an independent source of income. If you have an independent source of income, my advice is it's a great job. I love it. Do it.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, they're dealing with the fact that the print is still bringing in most of the profits, but in fact the move is towards digital and nobody seems to know how to deal with this. There is no one has come up with an answer to this yet.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now owned by Bezos is, you know, selling some service with it Like Bloomberg, or third, I'm sorry, there's one other, and that is venture money, like BuzzFeed or Vox. And we really have no idea what's going on at those places right now. Arthur will be making money, but we don't know.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But they got sold. Yeah. Well, my point, right? As far as I can tell, the main model that's going on here is one of two things is what I call either rich guy with hobby. And that means somebody who wants to support journalism for whatever reason. The guardian has a you.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The amount of jobs in journalism has fallen by a huge percentage since I got into it in the late 80s, early 1990s. Nobody has worked out a sustainable model that I am aware of except online.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's us right. I mean, and to me, I would take what he's saying a lot more seriously if he would start pounding on those topics. All right.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. We're talking about healthcare in college, right? And what I would say is I think Mr. Muddy Mustache makes a very valuable argument about how you could be tied to jobs that you hate and that you need to think about this because I think that is a huge problem in our society, right? That people really feel trapped. But I think his answer at just simply blaming the consumerism is completely and utterly wrong. What you really need to say is why don't we have single payer health care? Why don't we help people have some sort of base income if that's what you believe in? Why don't we support people having children? Why do we only revere children as long as they're in the womb? And then the day they come out, nope, there's no support whatsoever for families.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is very thoughtful. Right. But again, that's not most people's problem. Most people's problem is they can't keep up in this society because their incomes are stagnating while costs are going up. What I would say is...”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, and still get advertising dollars, but they didn't realize because they just thought they were still thinking car dealerships and department stores, what they didn't realize was how big the financial services sector would become in advertising and what a conflict of interest that would ultimately cause.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There, as to the latte. And it's just totally neglected. And I guess the last thing I'll say is this is in keeping with the history of personal finance reporting. If you study this and I want to credit Trudy Lieberman at CJR, who's really written about this extensively, personal finance writing became very big in the 60s and 70s as an offshoot of the consumer movement. And it was initially seen by newspapers as a way around some of the problems of the consumer movement had given them advertising objections to cars in particular. Car dealers were very angry. So they thought, oh, well, write about this personal finance stuff. And it'll be a way of giving people some hard-hitting consumer coverage and their money. And you're still getting advertising.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Instinct now to just throw everything up there. So these scolding things get put up constantly. Americans aren't saving enough for retirement. Americans, you need to save more money, not this thoughtful, well, why aren't people saving more money for retirement?”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think much has changed. I think there's some great, great stuff that's done at the LA Times, at the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal. But I think most of it has remained not particularly very good. I think there's a lot of judgment. There's a lot of scolding. If anything, the internet has made that worse because there's just this reflexive.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wouldn't say biography. What I would say, one of the great historical works of all time is John De Moses' The Unredeemed Captive about a girl who was kidnapped by the Indians in the early 1700s in New England and refuses to come home.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“New York Let the Great World Spin, which is about the Trade Center being built in the 70s. Claire Massouds, did I pronounce her name right? The Emperor's Children, which is about New York also on the verge of... Of the trait of what happened at 9 11, but is really about how the money class took over from the literary class in New York. It's a really brilliant book about that. That's interesting. People don't realize that about how”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which is about money. I think everybody should read it. One of the many things, I at least reference it at least once a year in a column. It's a poor girl growing up in Williamsburg and it basically shows how, this isn't why I love it, mind you, I love it for lots of reasons, but basically shows a lot of the lie of personal finance in it. Because one of the things that's going on in the book is the fact that the mom is trying to save money to buy land and they have a little bank because of course in those days poor people didn't have bank accounts they have a can in the closet that they put money in. And they're always having to raid it. I mean, it's just ridiculous. And they finally end it when they're dead broke after the father dies and they have to pay to have him buried. And the mother looks at them ironically and says, well, we have our bit of land now.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh god, I was just thinking about this the other night because I was like, he's going to ask me about books and money, right? Doesn't have to”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“His work is fantastic. They're both fantastic. Lazarus, by the way, I just have to say this, wrote the great, great piece on Trump University in 2007. Really?”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Spill their guts. So he was a huge mentor to me. And then I, in personal finance, I mean, I was at the LA Times, which, you know, really had Kathy Christoph, who took over Sylvia Porter's column when she died. I had Liz Weston, who now writes for NerdWallet. I had amazing people to this day, the LA Times has amazing people. My Lazarus is there and Mike Hiltzig.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And one of the things he taught me, of course, was the idea of don't be afraid of silence, right? When you're interviewing someone, just let them talk. Like if they pause”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was a research assistant for Walt Bagdanich, who's now at the New York Times, and I is either on his third or fourth Pulitzer. I'm forgetting which he has so many Pulitzer.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I would have to double check that actually. And yeah, so this is what's going on now. And there's movements in the Wyoming case, is it the learning addicts? People have sued to get the case opened up, basically. Learning addicts once the case opened up to the public so that they can see what on earth is going on here. If indeed that is what's going on, nobody really knows what”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And anyway, so the next thing is that Kiyosaki's business outfit that was negotiating with the learning addicts declares bankruptcy. So there's now a whole thing in Wyoming where there seems to be a case that is closed. Well, there is a case that is closed to the public that seems to be about where Kiyosaki's money is. We don't really know for sure that that's what it's about.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And not surprisingly, the learning addicts got a little annoyed because they felt they had brought the idea out to Heb and they sued him. And the courts eventually, after several years, ruled in the learning addicts' failure. It was a contract.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, there's been a massive falling out between him and the learning annex. You guys remember the learning anarchy. It was this big thing in, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Continuing Ed for adults. Right. And they would bring people in and they'd do lectures and whatnot. So Kiyosaki, actually, they helped Kiyosaki get his start as a big-time guru. And then they were talking about doing these wealth seminars with him, a la Trump University now, right? Where you bring people in and you say, you know, hey, spend $1,000 this weekend and Kiyosaki will tell you the secrets, right? And they have these self-appointed teachers. Well, Kiyosaki decided this was such a great idea. He ultimately found another partner to do it with.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I have a standing offer in my slate column. If anybody does this and is successful, they should write me immediately and I will write a column about them. At the same time, I will also write a column if you seriously call up your brokerage and just ask and if you can tell me what the brokerage says to you, I'd like to put that in the column too.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was in the. I don't think he ever wrote a book named that. It was in, I'll come back to it in a minute. So anyway, but they're telling you to sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice. And, you know, if you save your $5 a day, you'll retire with millions of dollars. Kiyosaki is coming at it from the opposite perspective. He's basically saying, do what I'm telling you. You know, buy multiple properties or investments with borrowed money, and you can buy the ground underneath the coffee shop and have as many lattes as you desire, which in and of itself is not unreasonable, like in terms of, well, yeah, people deserve their latte, right? But at the same time, of course, this is wildly irresponsible. I mean, my favorite kiosaki of all time was, and Chuck Jaffe caught this out. Market watch by Market Watch. I love his work, so I have to give credit for this. He caught him out once telling people they could trade on margin.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, well, he came up with this idea, this book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad, where he claimed he was mentored by a rich dad who, by the way, nobody's been able to prove existed. You know, and Rich Dad told him he should take leveraged money. So it's the opposite of Dave Ramsey, right? And, you know, and buy multiple homes and multiple investments and, you know, be really wealthy. This is a sort of wealth guru thing. It's kind of the opposite. People like Dave Ramsey and David Bach came up with the latte factor are telling you to sell. The latte factor. Was that a?”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I would say there's another thing going on too, and I would agree with you, but there's another thing going on too, right? Which is again, a lot of personal finance is kind of very subtly political. And it's political because it accepts the system as it is. It doesn't say a la, the early 1970s, we really need to do a cost of living adjustment for Social Security. It puts the blame on the individual. Now, in many cases, this is like bailing out the Titanic with a bucket. I mean, it's not going to work, but it accepts the world as it is and it then blames you, the individual who might be suffering from unemployment, who might be suffering from ill health, who might be forced to retire early and be suffering from age discrimination and not be able to get a job, who might be living in an area where housing still has not recovered in 2016. It says the fault is yours, that you made the mistake and that there's nothing government can do. There is nothing to be done and you're at fault and you should say.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, more than global. This is real political stuff. He gets on the air five days a week, 500 plus stations, I believe, 550 right now. He says Social Security is a debacle. He cannot stand the affordable care act. He bashes Obama. I mean, I can go on about this. This is a lot of political.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He only does term insurance. He has some good things. I mean, I don't want to say he's totally awful. But more to the point, and I think the thing that concerns me the most is people think of him as a simple personal finance guru. He's not. This is very political stuff.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, it's called leveraged money. It's a really great thing, and I would urge anybody who can come up with a 20% down payment to do it, right? So as long as they think they're going to stay put. But that's a digression, right? So anyway, though, he gets on the air and he starts with a radio show as well, with the story, right? You know, I'm a former bankrupt. I've been saved. Well, my other things is he says nobody should be declaring bankruptcy or almost no one should be declaring bankruptcy. But he declared bankruptcy. Right. I mean, which is just utterly absurd.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, Dave is a guy. He's another one. He's got the story, right? You know, Dave Ramsey's story is that he was a real estate wheeler and dealer in his early 20s. He gets in over his head and he has to declare bankruptcy. And then he decides to reinvent his personal financial life and he never takes credit again, which is apparently quite true.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, she well, she you know, did a number of books, she, I mean, to her credit, she hustled like crazy. I mean, it's not like she was, you know, found overnight. And she became a big star in part because women really liked this sort of, you know, more emotional approach, less about, you know, here's the five stocks you need, right? It was more about how you feel about your money, which was perfect in the 1990s.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think she ever did Est, but somebody would have to ask her that. She follows, I'm not sure what the correct answer to this is now, a big yoga guru out there. And there's a lot of this sort of emotional money stuff, right? She sort of combines the personal finance of Sylvia Porter with the self-actualization of the 1960s and 1970s, which is why she's Susie Ormond and everybody else isn't. Nobody else ever thought to do this. And so it becomes this emotional money sort of how do you feel about it combined with tough love? And as you can imagine, since that doesn't sound very sexy. Yeah, it becomes very inconsistent over time, basically. But it reinvented personal finance for the 1990s. She started.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Go into that Well, Susie Orbed is all over the place. She is given rampantly inconsistent advice. She can be very judgmental, which is not how she started, by the way. Susie Orban comes out of the 1970s and 1980s Bay Area self-actualization seed. You know,”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, how to win friends and influence people. Sure. But the thing is with all of this stuff is you need the story, right? And the story is the story. And you have to somehow, for the people who become the big financial gurus, they have the story of how they were lost and they were found. It's like St. Augustine, except for personal finance. So like Susie Orman, for instance. So wait, before you...”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Personal finance originates in the self-health industry, right? People don't really understand this. They always think it's some form of business writing, and it kind of is, right? But it's really an offshoot of the self-help industry. And the self-help industry dates to the 1930s when with Sylvia Porter, people were looking for answers. And at the same time, it kind of met mass culture. You know, during the 1930s, you have a lot of stuff going on. I mean, you have communism, you have fascism. People are looking for answers. The self-help industry is one of the isms of the 1930s. So you began to see things like Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich. Oh, sure. Is that when that came out? Yeah. People are living in Hooverville's, and this book is a bestseller, right? When did the...”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I write for slate several times a week. I have the column the bills. I contribute to money box. You could also buy pound foolish or the index card. They're on all sorts of sites including Amazon and Powell's independent bookstore and the strand. I love the strand. I have to get that in. And all over the place. Oh, and also I write a column every couple of months for Inc.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I don't know what to say to that except for the fact that obviously if one wants to have children, they should be able to have children and figure it out as they go along. But the fact is, is we live in a society with no supports whatsoever.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The argument is that people shouldn't be complaining because, hey, compared to poor people 100 years ago or 200 years ago, we've got air conditioning. We have refrigerators and so on and so forth. This is ridiculous. We live in the here and now, right? And people are, you know. They really are strapped. We live in a society where if one thing goes wrong for you, you can end up in bankruptcy court. Medical insurance is not very good still for a lot of people. The deductibles are absurd. A lot of stuff is not covered. You know, people can't afford childcare. I do an advice column over at Slate called Ask the Bills every two weeks. And the last one I did is somebody wrote in and just started laying out their situation and said, I don't think I can afford to have children. What do I do?”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So you tended to meet people, Bora. And now it's a little not so much like that. And what happens is you just interact with people like yourself over and over and over again. And so you kind of lose perspective. I mean, this is a very common problem for people. And so, and it's why, by the way, you see people ranting on TVs about poor people and smartphones too. They think that's really the problem. Because, hey, probably for their kids, it might be, right?”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's more than the cult of celebrity. What it ills, they get very serious for a moment. It's really about the 1% society. Because one of the many things that our society has done is as we have become more economically stratified, we tend to only interact with people who are like us. The society you and I grew up in was more ethnically segregated, but it was more economically open, right? All the Jews lived in the same neighborhood, kind of”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, exactly. So it's a great, great business to get into. And hey, you probably are helping some wealthy people who need some hand holding. But my favorite was one of the Judge sisters, and I'm forgetting which one it's in pound foolish did wealth therapy. And she becomes like the poster girl for it. And she gives us interview at The New York Times in 2008, the fall of 2008, mind you. Good time. And she says, you know, yes, I went down from five cars to one car. And if I can do it, anyone can.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, they are reimbursed, but like, for instance, it's much harder to get inpatient therapy now than it used to be, right? Remember back in the 1990s, anybody could get inpatient therapy. Now, of course, the insurance companies put you through gazillions of hoops. So you set up instead an on-site facility for money disorders. And people are just paying out. It's like going to a doctor who hasn't take insurance. I was going to say.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And a lot of them would tell me that they had done time in food disorders and they would make the link, right? And they would say, well, you know, people binge eat when they're unhappy and they spend money when they're unhappy, right? And it actually is an interesting link because actually a lot of people have wage issues, not just because of because they binge eat, right? Because the food supply has changed. And, you know, they have put cord oil in everything, which puts more weight on. High fructose corn syrup. High fructose corn syrup, right? Thank you. You know, people who have less money can't buy fresh food because they're afraid it will go bad. Or it's not even offered in their neighborhood. So they have to buy packaged processed food, which puts weight on as well. And you can go on, right? So there actually is a link, but that's not the link they see. The link that's really going on here, of course, is AD.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when I looked at financial therapy, what I found was a lot of the financial therapists, and I don't say all of them, by the way, a lot of them were former eating specialists. And there's a couple of reasons. Wait a second. Wait.”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Diagnostic manual for medical reimbursements, right? So weirdly enough, financial therapy just sort of presumes that like, you know, wealthy people need help. And it's like stuff like affluenza. And like, do you feel bad about having to pay your housekeeper? And what do you do if your friends are really jealous of the money you have? I mean, this is absolute BS, right? I mean, I'm sure people have issues if they have a lot of money. Don't get me wrong. have met people over the years they do but this is not they do not have money problems the way somebody who can't get by on their paycheck has money problems”
2016-03-24 · Masters in Business · Barry Ritholtz’s Masters in Business: Helaine Olen Interview · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source