YouSaid · the spoken record

Jack Barsky

lines on the record: 235
first: 2022-07-09
most recent: 2022-07-09
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Forward position. But anyway, so that was the hardest for me to give up. The other thing that I remember I had to do to hand in my party document to the party secretary of the university. And he made a comment, yeah, we probably won't hear much about you, but we know that you're going to do something very important. So he thought I had an inkling that I'm going to go someplace undercover or something like that. And then I packed my bags and got on a train to Berlin for another one of those secret meetings with my new handler, Nikolai. And here came another test that would have been quite easy to fail So”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Basketball, giving up basketball was huge for me. I loved playing that game. I started playing basketball when I was 18. That's a little late”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was just told you that I was being recruited by the State Department of East Germany. I was going to become a diplomat. I must have had some paper but I forgot because just by saying so that wouldn't have worked.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the ability to travel to the West, because the West was closed off to us We could go to foreign countries, but they all had to be communist countries. I wanted to see Paris because I had fallen in love with Honorie Balzac, who wrote, A phenomenal set of novels that I just ate up. And so when I eventually did go to Paris, I knew all the places already because he described them all. But anyway, so that one, it was a... It was 5149, but eventually when you do the side-by-side intellectual comparison. That doesn't work. It becomes a tie. And then you just go with your gut and say, hey, I'm in.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was a difficult decision, but fundamentally it wasn't my zeal. To help the revolution. It was what they called what Stasi was looking for, the KGB was looking for in a character that they would send over a well-controlled inclination to adventure.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So you got the career on the one hand, my basketball team, the town that I would be part of the ruling elite of. And then we had this great adventure and the ability to contribute to the victory, the worldwide victory of communism and stick it to the Nazis. And of course, the feeling that you're really special.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“By the way, my friend Guntant, the one who worked for the Stasi, was also, the Stasi tried to recruit him as an agent, but he had a love relationship at the time. And he said politely, no, I won't. I can't.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. And the one thing I didn't have, the two things I didn't have, an emotional relationship with my mother? I didn't have a steady girlfriend at the time”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, This was almost 50 50. I knew I was going to have a huge career, a good career. I was on my way because I was already employed by the university as an assistant professor.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm not really trained. You know, there's a lot of things I need to learn, and I came up with a couple of really stupid things. One not so stupid, but the other one was, I don't know why I said that. I said, for instance, I need to learn how to drive a car and to type with a typewriter. And he got really annoyed and he said, don't worry about it. We'll train you. But I got to tell you, we need people who are decisive, so you got until tomorrow noon to give Boris your decision. That made for a sleepless night.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, in East Germany, yeah, all of East Germany. An appointment to meet with him and as we walk into the room there was this huge desk and a little guy sitting behind it. Very, very just like little and not unimpressive. A lot of paraphernalia like a bust of Jazzinski on his desk and some paintings, Lenin and so forth. But when the guy opened his mouth He went like whoa. A huge psychological energy. He spoke only Russian. Now, and initially he would, you know, start to bet with five minutes' worth of propaganda, why we're doing what we're doing. I didn't need that. I understood most of it. But when I didn't understand, I asked Boris to translate. And then he sprung it on me and I was not prepared. He said, so what? Are you in or not? I must know I hadn't made up my mind. I wasn't expecting that would come. I said to him.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I had no idea that something bad would happen if I failed that test, but I didn't. I didn't fail. So, and this led then to the offer. All right. You know, Boris was happy with me and he told his boss, who was most likely the head of the KGB in East Berlin. And I had an appointment to meet.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, this guy's career was. Over he had an engineering degree. He was a pretty smart guy. He was just for the rest of his life, and he's still alive, I believe, floating around, you know. Trading in model railroads and stuff like that.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, exactly. And something very interesting happened while I was being trained in Berlin. I met a classmate of mine from high school. And he confided to me that he was recruited by the Stasi to become go as a spy to West Germany. And he also had this practice trip, and he ped in his pants. He went back and told him I can't do that.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're getting very close to the reason they actually made me do these two practice trips. When I first emerged on West Berlin Territory, I felt highly uncomfortable. It was at the enemy, right? And I saw the cops everywhere, and even though those cops had light blue uniforms, nothing. They weren't standouts. So I was wondering, you know, if they knew that I had KGB on my forehead.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, this was an East German passport. It was real. Okay, so the first trip, all they wanted me to do is just walk around, you know, smell the air, you know, have a beer or whatever and eat a sausage and then come back. The second trip I had a task, very similar to the one that I had back in Yena to ring the doorbells on place and talk to some people, and that worked very well also.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. So, anyways, he gave me some tasks and we, and he, since I had rented a room in a house, he gave me Western literature to read. And we spent time together. There was A practice run to West Germany actually there were two. And that was very important in hindsight. I figured that out. So I traveled to West Germany, no, not to West Berlin with an East German passport that was stamped that that individual was allowed to go to the West. And there was a part of the border that was only guarded by Soviet troops. And that's where they smuggled me into West Germany. I got on the subway and then appeared in West Berlin. No Americans, no Brits, no French knew that I had entered.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I tell you the code we used when I met while I was active, I would approach the other person who I thought maybe the person I want to meet. We both had something with us or on us to make us more likely to be the right person. And I would ask him the following questions. Excuse me. I'm looking for Susan Green. And he would answer yes, you must be David. Stupid. If I If I ask a stranger, they would look at me, how could I help you? So I know it's the wrong guy.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. So he finally, I guess he sent a report to headquarters in Berlin. And then he sent me on a three-week. Quote unquote practice trip to Berlin. This was the first time when I had a conspiracy where I had an address in a time and a code phrase and I met another agent. His name was Baris. These names were meaningless. They were all like cover names, right?”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, the shyness, and then I wasn't very comfortable lying. I became comfortable down the road. But I was brutally honest and never. Never hid anything of me, but you know, over time you lose that uncomfortable feeling and you rationalize that you got to do it. There's only one way, right? And you're serving a good cause.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I did well, and the other one that I didn't like, but I also did well when Herman drove me around the city and showed me a building and he said, find out what organization is in there, what they do, maybe get to know some people and I did that pretty well also. You know, you have to be inventive to come up with a cover story. And I've always been quite inventive. I'm a storyteller at heart. And I didn't know it then, but I...”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's exactly right. But anyway, I hated doing that, but I did it well. I still remember in those days I had a beard. And I rang the bell. Yeah, and I looked the part. I said I'm a sociology student, and I'm doing a survey. And I asked a whole bunch of questions. Would you like to answer the questions? No problem. And then I directed the conversation to the ladies' private life. And she actually gave me information. She volunteered information that I wanted to know.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because, you know, I always was, and I still am to some degree a bit shy. I lost a lot of the shyness after moving to the south because here in the United States because you don't have to be shy.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He would give me an address and a name of the people who lived at the address. And he told me to go there, ring the doorbell, and find out something about a relative who lived in West Germany. That is undercover exploration, right? So you go, you make up a story and somehow win the confidence of your target to tell you something that you want to know.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, but it was not very focused, not in great detail. So we talked about personal stuff and dislikes. He gave me tasks. For instance, when my friend and I hitchhiked from Easter Many all the way down to Bulgaria, he told me to write a report about it, what I saw. Fundamentally, he wanted to And how well I can report, how well I observe. He also asked me to write some profiles about fellow students. I don't believe that was for them to give him to Nastasia. It was just like, how well do I characterize people? That's important when you're talking about when I was in the US, active in the U.S., I operated as a spotter, so I did exactly that. I wrote profiles about people. He also gave me some tasks to do that were rather unpleasant.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, I remember what he told me. He says, you know, you got to understand one thing They're looking for guys too. That's all”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, yeah. Yeah, with a Russian accent. So I got in trouble one time with him when I asked him, is your real name Garman? He didn't like that”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would operate outside the law of the countries I would go to, as well as East Germany, because the magazines and eventually when I joined up, they told me I better watch Western television, which was also not explicitly prohibited, but it was... Something that could get you in trouble”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that took a while, so Herman and I had an unofficial relationship for about a year and a half. I would meet him once a week, once every two weeks, initially in his car, but then he took me to a conspirational flat. There was an apartment that was occupied by a party member, a lady, single lady. When we came in, she would leave. She left us tea and cookies and then we could freely talk. He at that time gave me some West German literature magazines to read, which was, of course, forbidden. So I'm starting to feel somewhat special. And as we were talking about what they had in mind for me in general, I knew that I was going to be even more special because I would be above the law.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They were pretty close collaborators, as I told you that they bought forged documents that the Germans made because the Germans were better at forgery. They also exchanged information, but they didn't trust each other 100%. And I tell you why I know that. So they recruited me to send me to West Germany. As I already said, East Germany had a thousand agents over there. Why would they have to want to have their own?”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Anyway, so when I get to the restaurant, I saw this fellow sitting in the back of the table and there was another person at the table. So I was a little bit hesitant because in those days, it was not unusual for perfect strangers to share a table because there weren't enough tables and chairs and so forth. So I didn't know if I could approach him, but he got up and came to me and he took me to the table and he said, I want to introduce Herman. We work with our Soviet comrades. Aha, KGB. And then he disappeared. He says, I got something else to do. I never knew his name. He just handed me over to the KGB.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, thank you for pointing that out. And then he asked his question. He says, can you imagine to one day work for the government And so I gave a pretty clever answer. I said, yes, but not as a chemist. So I answered the question that he didn't ask. I helped him out. So we made an arrangement to meet for lunch, which in Germany is the main meal. At the number one restaurant in Vienna, I still remember what I ate. Rum steak with butter on top and french fries. What was my favorite?”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, the reason I did so because I had no information to the contrary. I never knew anybody personally or even, you know. Somewhat removed, who was followed by the Stasi was put in jail. I had no clue. I had no clue that they did a lot of damage and that they were doing a lot of surveillance of the East German population the same way the KGB did for the Soviet Union. So for me to be talking to somebody from the Stasi, It raised my interest, I was curious what comes next because I sort of knew something interesting would be coming at me and I had no I had no other thoughts about that at that point. So when he was finally, when he went for the kill by reversing himself, he said, you know, I got to tell you that I really am not from Kautzai, no, I'm from the government.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, we knew that the Stasi existed We even had our James Bond. We had a series called The Invisible Visor, where a Stasi employee in East German would go into West Germany and hunt down Nazis. So yes, Dastasi was known to be there”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I knew that. At that point, I know he was Stasi, which is wrong, but it doesn't matter because he was German and I had no idea that the KGB would be involved.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And he said that he was a representative of that company. Just want to find out what my plans were after graduating from college. And at that point, I knew he wasn't from Caud Saiena, because in those days there was no recruitment when you were done. If you were in the top 10% of the graduates, you would most likely pick to stay and get a doctorate, right? And the rest of them were assigned. You know, you had no choice. So that guy was a He didn't know the basics about.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And in came a person who spoke fluent German, so that was not a KGB guy, there was a collaborator. And so he started making a bunch of small talk. He introduced himself as a representative of Karl Saiziena, which was the optics. that was made really really good optical instruments was one of the best in the world.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, absolutely right. And one day I got a knock on my door and my dorm room door was on a Saturday. And they knew that I was by myself. How did they know it? We had a, I pieced this together. We had an exchange student from the Soviet Union, and he was next door to me. And he, you know, he befriended me. So he got to know me a little bit. And the pattern was that my roommate would always go home for the weekend. And of course, they also knew which door to knock on, even though there were no nameplates, right? So somebody knocks. And I knew it was a stranger because if it had been a student, the pattern was that we would knock on the door and then go in. We wouldn't wait for somebody to let us in. So I waited for 10 seconds and he didn't come in. I knew that was a stranger. I said, come on in.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that they pretty much kept a record on everybody in the country. And so when you look through this, and this is what the KGB was looking for, they were looking for candidates, particularly for this kind of job that they had in mind for me, for candidates who were not in their mid-20s. Ah, who were not fully developed yet, but mature enough to get there and still young enough, right?”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not at all. And I give you one extreme example. It was down the road when I fathered a child out of wedlock that was in my fifth year, I believe, the Communist Party in East Germany was very moralistic. If you did that, they would have a talk with you and give you whatever, a severe reprimand. Nobody even mentioned a word about this. So, yeah, so this is how this ego gets nurtured. But anyway, getting back to how the KGB came in contact. So they most likely got knowledge of me by looking at Stasi records.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But you know, as a balance you need a mentor, somebody who puts things in perspective, and I didn't have one. My father was a non entity and nobody else, they all looked up to me. I was up and coming guy, right?”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“and the feeling of superiority You know, I was full of myself when you are the best of the best and in my third year I received a scholarship, the Karl Marx scholarship that was limited to 100 concurrent recipients in the country. So my God, I was full of myself. I believed in myself hookline and sinker and I was also I got a lot of accolades from teachers and fellow students.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely was. And the town of Yen had about 100,000 people lived there. It's a wild guess, but maybe 30 tenured professors, and they were part of the ruling elite. I was trying to do as much as I can to live a good life, right? Have access to things that are nice.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Was made. Well, it was a big surprise, and I never thought of myself as a potential agent. You know, I was going to be a tenure professor and joined the ruling elite because in Europe tenured professors are few. It's not like in the United States, you know, anybody who teaches at colleges has a title of professor.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was choked off. All right. But what I did was I wanted to go on, right? And so I threw myself into the study of chemistry. I outworked all of my fellow students in a big way. I just worked my ass off and since I was pretty smart too. I just aced practically everything. And for the first two years in college, and look, we go to college, there are all these pretty girls and there's dances and everything. We had this great student club where I didn't look at any girls. Eventually, I knew I was going to want to have female companionship, but love, uh-uh, no more that hurts. There's a song that goes, love hurts.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Let me see As a single moment, yes. So, you know, I still remember we had a mail slot in the front door And I wasn't expecting a letter any day, and there was the letter. I go upstairs into my bedroom and I open it and I read it. And just like the life went out of me”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's very well put. But at the time, it emptied me out. If I had a tendency to have suicidal thoughts, I might have killed myself.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and so we interacted with a couple of letters and then I got the goodbye letter. Oh my I can still feel it. You know”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, yeah, and she eventually told me that he was not in picture anymore. So it was back and forth, back and forth. And our senior year, we were an item, and I was just dreaming of, you know, the future. But sort of, we didn't figure out that in those days, if she went to college in Berlin and I went to college in Jena, and the distance between the two cities was too much for a weekend visit, public transportation was very slow and nobody had cars.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He was older and he was more experienced. And he was going to be a doctor. But, you know, I was there and he was not. You know, presence wins.”
2022-07-09 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #301 – Jack Barsky: KGB Spy · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source