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Jamie Carragher

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2022-12-22
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2022-12-22
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  1. But no, I would say yes, but every set of supports, what they do to follow their team home and away. I think Anfield special. I don't think anyone could deny that

    2022-12-22 · The Diary of a CEO · Jamie Carragher: The Untold Story of Liverpool Legend That Pushed Himself Too Far · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  2. I wouldn't say that. And the reason I wouldn't say that is because everybody thinks they're the best fans And I think if I do say that I won't be turning on my Twitter notifications in a few days after this podcast comes out

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  3. Yeah, winning finals, the history that's gone before the Anfield crowd believe that the opposition coming to Anfield believe that something's going to happen special. This is a mythical football ground.

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  4. City, yeah, certainly in the last couple of years under Pec Mari I've always felt Chelsea have had that in the last 10 years or so, even when they weren't at the best, they'd still find a way to win. And yeah, I know our club's got that and we'll always have that. It just, you feel like something's going to happen.

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  5. I remember thinking you shouldn't do that. Yeah, but everyone's back. It's like everyone's in a zone. And you don't need to speak to other people. Sometimes there's moments in games where you just can smell it, you can feel it, something's happening.

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  6. But that's the little bit of luck you need to score so quickly right after that. That happens in some games. He did get a little bit of luck. I think the lines were actually flagged for an offside. The referee didn't see it, and they carried on playing for 30 seconds. So the linesman puts his flag down. And that's in the run-up to us getting our second goal. So we scored the second goal and then Only way I can discredit it, it's just you know when you're on a football pitch, you smell it 3 2. We knew it was, I knew it was going to be 3-3. Everybody knew it was going to be 3-3.

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  7. Not a lot. He wasn't a motivator. He was a tactician. And he made changes in this system wise, strategically to change it. But if I'm being honest, I think the changes he made was not to win the game. I think the changes he made was to stop him becoming five or six nil. We actually brought on a defensive midfield player Didier Mann. We went to Can call it three at the back, but you can be five at the back if you like rather than playing four. Don't get me wrong, the changes helped us go on and get the goals, but I think initially we need to stop what AC Milan are doing, otherwise this is going to be a massacre.

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  8. How can we stop it being 6 0? I think if you lose a game 3 0. If you lose five or six and it's remembered And that was my fear. That was fear.

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  9. They're just normal people and they've got the same sort of insecurities that you've got. But they've got something about them where they've got sort of maybe it's an opportunity that's arisen. They've grabbed it with both hands. An enthusiasm, something about them. Put them in that position, but Extraordinary people, they've got an extraordinary talent for that. You know, which finds themselves, I feel in that field. That thing where people are so impressed with someone or think they're going to give them these words that they've never heard of before. The olds that are getting now are realize that a lot of people in great positions, it's not because there's some genius. Sometimes, as I said, it's opportunity. They've seen a niche in the market, whatever it may be, they've just gone out there and grabbed it.

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  10. I think what you're saying is really good because The career that I've had has afforded me so many opportunities. I'm so fortunate that I'm speaking to you. You know, you're speaking to other people who are experts in their field. But when you speak to them, and that story about Richard Branson, it Perfect If you don't know them, and you know, say my family and friends, sometimes they're fascinated by some of the people I meet, and I said, I'm lucky to be in certain situations. And they look at these people like they're extraordinary. And when you've got a sort of relationship with someone, whether it's someone I work on TV with,

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  11. You know, start running the show or get right involved in it. So I think we all got to know where our strengths are and all got to know where we need help because we all need help.

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  12. It's like it doesn't matter. He wins, there's different ways of winning. And that's my thing on TV now. There's no right or wrong way to play football. It's being the best you can be at what you do. And if that's for Rafa Benisa, who's been on that training ground, coaching, not getting involved in stuff away from the pitch, well, that's someone else's job. No one is perfect or anything. Alex Ferguson wasn't a great coach, so he brought in great coaches. I think that's really important, not just in... Football management, I actually think in life in that for me, I'm a little bit weary of getting involved in things, but I think that's not my area of expertise. I think I'd be a little bit arrogant of myself to think I could just parachute myself in there

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  13. History is written by the winner. It doesn't matter what you do. So if Sir Alex Fakson doesn't do well. Man Un Same players be saying to you, he's never at the training We don't do tactical work, he doesn't do any coaching, it's all about winning. And to be honest, what you're saying there is interesting because one time, I remember Rafa Benita's. He knew someone at United and he said Fearson doesn't even coach because in Raffer's mind, you've got to be to be a top man, you're a coach. You know, I think when him and Maureeno came along, they were like coaches and probably couldn't get their head around a way Alex Ferguson was. And it was almost a little bit dismissive and it wasn't like I was trying to defend the Manchester United manager. It was just that training. Even Faken doesn't even do the coaching. I said, so what?

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  14. Yeah, but I don't think that stops us winning as such. Nobody is everything. Alex Ferguson is not a coach. She's probably more like a Gerard Julier type figure as coaches there. Rafa Benita's people will question his management I don't question it as such, and I don't question Gerard. Other managers, you've just got to do what's your strength, that's your strength. If Rafa Vini says his strength is not the man management, I'm putting this act on. It's all about being obsessed with football and coaching every single day. Do what you're good at.

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  15. I wouldn't say it was a downside because he had coaches around him who did the training sessions. It got to its natural end. You shouldn't forget he mean he nearly lost his life managing Liverpool. He's then making decisions. Is he in a fully football focused state of mind when he's actually recovering from almost losing his life? And we made a few signings that didn't work. And to be honest, that's always our ends for Liverpool managers when it comes to the end. And then the next manager has to come in because the energy and the excitement, not just from the squad, but also the support is just petering out.

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  16. Always got to be a sponge and taking things in and learning things. And I think when Gerard Julier came in, I was a bit par player and then became a fully fledged member of Liverpool's first 11 for the next five years. And then Rafa came in. Then again, stepped up a level to become the vice captain and one of the leaders in the team, one of the best players in the team. So I always think I got the most from these other managers coming in, you know, who certainly Jared Hooley, I don't think, would have ever heard of me. Not too much. But I think it's important when people come into your life figures of authority. You've got to basically squeeze everything out of them. Your advantage, and I think I did that with both managers

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  17. He was a lot colder than Gerard Julier. He was a lot more interested in. Kids, the wife, you know, yourself, you know, you speak, ask me about my dad or different things like that. Was Gerard, Raffa didn't want to get involved in anything like that. Film, it was just football. I mean, I think I was obsessed with football. Rafa was just like, he was probably above me. But it was different, but it doesn't. I mean, I'll be honest with you, when we describe managers. The one who came a couple after was Roy Hodgson, and it didn't go particularly well. But my point is. When a new manager comes in, I want to get whatever I can from him. So he may not work for Liverpool. I may not like ex, but I might like Y and Z.

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  18. Do we want to achieve? But the actual day-to-day stuff of coaching, I don't think it wasn't his forte. And it might sound strange. I don't think he had a huge knowledge of the game enough, but it wasn't somebody who was going to say something to you in a coaching session or a tactical point that made you think, oh, never heard that before, or that's a bit different. It wasn't like that his thing was bringing people together for a common goal and almost what I've described them to other people say Clive Woodward, the England rugby coach World Cup winning coach was probably similar in that and that he'd have other coaches but he's always coming up with ideas to create sort of a siege mentality a togetherness whereas Rafa was a coach he was on that training pitch every day

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  19. Raffle was completely different. Gerard Julier was a manager. I think Gerard Jouli was the type of guy who could He could manage an organization, didn't just have to be football. I think he could have been a bank manager, he could have Being a CEO, if you like, organize people, get everyone focused on, you know.

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  20. But I think it's when that belief goes really. But for me. Again, I think I was different to other players because I never played for the manager. I always play for the club, and again, because I always felt like I played for the club and the supporters, and I'm not saying that to Curry favour with the supporters as such, but. Manager I didn't know I'm managing anything as such. I mean, Roy Evans giving me Debut, I supp managers played me but I never Had that sort of feeling that Need to win this for the manager.

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  21. It rings a bell. I don't know the specific game if that was the right game, but I think towards the end of his time, I think the results aren't going well. And managers, no matter who they are, they will lose confidence. And Stevie at that time was obviously a megastat and you're trying to maybe keep people on side. If you're like, not that I think the players were ever offside with Gerard Julier, but that confidence and belief in the manager starts to ebb away when results don't go well. I wouldn't say Gerard Houli ever lost the dressing room in terms of how we felt about him As a man, but it was a time for it to come to an end. There's no doubt about that. And it's an interesting one that does a manager lose the dressing room. Yes he's always lost part of a dressing room because of the players who he's not picking.

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  22. Open yourself up like that. He said, be honest within the dressing room and to your manager. But you said, you know what I mean? Sometimes you've got to be clever and look after yourself a little bit and you don't need to be as honest. You think you're doing the right thing. And I think... And knew exactly where he was coming from. I think at times you need to be honest, but I think it'll probably. And again, I keep going back to my son because I'm not a coach or a manager. And people say to me, you know, could you give something back? But I want you to give it back to my son and things like that. Don't question the manager. Don't make excuses. Don't blame the manager. Or if you come in and say, oh, the coach or the trainer, well, get something out of it.

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  23. Blaming other people at different times for their own Poor games, mistakes always looking for excuses I would say Think I'm pretty honest, and I was as a player. And I always remember When I was a young lad, I had a bad game. I keep talking about my bad games, don't You remember the more, but a very famous coach was a huge inspiration to me, was Ronnie Moran. And I played a game and played poorly, and I did an interview after the game saying it was my fault, those goals were my fault. And even though this was a coach who was a real sort of man's man, a legend of Liverpool football club, he wasn't the coach then. He still used to come in and walk around the training ground. Said, don't ever do that again You don't need

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  24. Inside me, and that wasn't just when I was playing for him, that was when I was a child. I'd be thinking, why aren't England picking they haven't players? You know, almost felt like England was a team from down south or a London team That's just the feeling I had. But I think if I would have become a mainstay of the England team. Think I would have felt that. I think I would have got there. And that's my one disappointment in my football career. It's the only team in my life from when I started five years of age. I didn't dominate. I'm going to say dominate was. Be a mainstay of the team, be one of the voices of the team, be one of the leaders because I wasn't good enough. That's a simple fact.

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  25. I'm massively passionate about my own city. Maybe that comes from the way we're brought up in Liverpool, you know, the Thing of you feel as if a lot of the countries are against you, and maybe that's some of it's true. Some people outside of it people think, oh, that's a chip on your shoulder. But there is that sort of, we sort of buy into that. And that doesn't mean like I'm against England as such, but it Watching England down the World Cup would never take me to a place emotionally the way it would if I saw Liverpool playing. It just wouldn't take me there. It's not like a conscious thing of I'm not going to make, I'm not going to be happy about this.

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  26. I think that was down to the fact that I didn't carry the same responsibility because I never really played. I was like a squad player. Really, I wouldn't class myself as patriotic. At all, I don't know what the I don't know. Can you be patriotic of your own city? Is that a word, or is there something?

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  27. Not in years to come going to be, oh, I didn't quite do what I wanted because of that NEOP. Yeah, and this never happened. It's like, no, there's going to be lots of things in his career, as in my career, obstacles in the way. You've got to get over them. You've got to get them out the way. Or you've got to deal with it and then keep going nuttins. And that was always my mindset. And that's what I'm trying to print to my son. I'm pretty confident he's got that mindset of nothing stops you. Nothing gets in your way. You don't use anything as an excuse or a reason why something didn't happen, that no excuse mentality, you just keep going. Nothing gets no obstacles in the way.

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  28. System, we're doing this this afternoon and this morning, someone in for in the operation. So he's going from the operation. He's a professional footballer. Haven't been able to probably sleep about it, thinking about it, you know, just. Want to do as much as you can to help them because it's just some. Thing I keep drumming home to him and I keep saying it almost every day Not using this as an excuse. Not going This happened, is it? Okay, boom. We're going again. It's like. This, I know for a lot of people or players or young players or wherever it may be.

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  29. The other big clubs To be able to withstand pressure, criticism that comes your way. So often I saw a lot of Liverpool players who would start really well. It wouldn't make me think we've got a great player here. I'd always think. Say a couple of months down the line because I knew what was coming because every player goes through a few bad games, he gets criticism, whatever it may be. And I saw too many players never recover from that. And that tells me that for me, the top level football mentality. Do you have that personality character to get you through those tough moments and come back and fight back and not give in?

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  30. Janet Julier came, he completely went the other way and was once a big, strong, powerful players aggression. And that's why me and him are such a great relationship because I was such a competitor. Maybe didn't have the quality that some of the players had in the Roy Evans team, I feel like, and some of the football they played was outstanding. But he just wanted people who would die for that shirt.

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  31. Yeah, basically, no, you wouldn't get this club anymore, but he questioned his desire in a game. And to be fair, Paulins was probably one of the bravest footballers you'd see. But in a particular game against Manchester United, We'd lost it 2 1 and we'd lost two goals in the last minute. And I think it was a very sore defeat for everyone. So I think everyone was a little bit emotional about it. And because Intia jumped up and said something, he just went straight back and said he wasn't happy that he'd come off. He shouldn't have come off. My captain should come off on a stretcher from old Trafford. And it was interesting with Jerry Julier in that. We had him the first foreign manager. Of a sudden, people would associate him with this flair football and being maybe a bit nice, but that was what Liverpool team was

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  32. It was over. Paulin's question what we're doing in training as senior pros do at times you know we're trying to get it right why are we doing this why are we doing that and i think gerard julier saw it as his opportunity to sort of stand with authority it was almost like i would imagine he was glad Had said it, and it was Paul Lint in some ways, and I don't think the message was for Paul Lint because I think he was always going to get rid of INSI. I think the message was to the rest of us. You know, don't try and take me on.

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  33. Yeah, I mean, he put Paul in a great fella. I get on great with Paul in great player as well. Didn't have the career that Liverpool's had maybe at other clubs. And I think Gerard Curie just wanted to make a fresh start. And he wanted to, I think most of managers do it. They take on The big guy, if you like, and he was certainly that he was, I think he was maybe England's captain or vice captain at the time. But he wanted to completely revolutionise Liverpool and completely change it. And yeah, he had words with Paul Lintz. And the thing was not about him having words as such, but also the fact that he didn't sort of back down. He really held his own. He had a strong argument in the team meeting. I think, wow, we just stood up to probably one of the best midfield players of his generation.

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  34. No, I think he found it difficult to start with I think it was a big split in the camp. That the players would come before that with Roy Evans and Gerard Juliet came in, he was new to it. And yeah, I think it was tough for him in that first season.

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  35. Not enough to play Fordman. I know some people think I played for this club and it's on your CV, and it's a great achievement to get to a Liverpool United Chelsea City. Not enough to play for, and you've got to win the whole existence of those clubs is about winning. If they're not winning, there's no point. You know, so that was my drive at Liverpool was to win every single day.

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  36. Remonstrating, screaming, shouting, you know, and not in terms of someone hadn't played poorly, but might have been more in terms of organisation and someone doing the job for the team where you were, you need to be. I always felt like I was the coach of the team in some ways. And because I played at centre back and I could, you know, see the whole team in front of me. Yeah, but we would be on top of people, but I don't like that to come across in like a bullying way where we were trying to, you know, keep people down here. We loved Torres Alonso, can we love being around great players because you wanted because you wanted to win? That was all that mattered. It wasn't about securing your place or making sure I was protected in any way. It was that thing of like, it's Liverpool. The big clubs.

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  37. Yeah, I mean, I think what happens is, I think what Peter was trying to mention, which I think was a little bit unfurled the way he described it, was that when a new player came in, I think Me and Steve were fans, we ain't just players, we were fans. It was like, oh God, I hope he's good. You know, like a fan would hope this new fella's good. And when you come in after the first training session, it'd be more than a joke. Oh, God, this doesn't look good, does it? You know what I mean? That type of thing if I thought, I hope this goes well. But I was Stevie. Stevie was different to me, and I was very vocal, very emotional. Stevie's maybe body language on the pitch at times would be questioned if, you know, he wasn't happy with somebody. He might turn away. Whereas AdBee.

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  38. Just because I'd made a mistake, hadn't played particularly well. I know most players will be able to go, I've had a great season. I've only won game. We won. I found it tough.

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  39. We played the cup final scored an own goal. I didn't play well. Stevie Jarad wins as the final. And we go in the open bus tour around Liverpool. So I've had a great season, but not had a great last game. And my son's on the bus with me. And I go on the top of the bus to start with. But you're on the bus for maybe three or four hours. Within an hour I was downstairs. I just sat there thinking it didn't go well. I didn't do that. And I was thinking now when I look and I'm embarrassed. I'm like, what are you doing? It was one game. You've had an unbelievable season. The team have, we won the FA Cup. We finished the season with a trophy. I couldn't, it was almost like I was up there acting because I didn't feel like celebrating. But we won the cup.

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  40. Then it'd be right, enjoy that right. Bang, we're back on it now. It was almost like you're just on this train and nothing's getting in the way, nothing's stopping. But I can assure you, it wasn't all doom and gloom. I loved it. And so many nights and times and experiences, but I do wish I was a little bit kinder to myself on the back of a poor performance or a defeat. I mean, I keep thinking about one standing out. We won the FA Cup final in 2006. Personally, I had a great season. We kept 33 clean sheets, which was one away from a record, which was the... Which was obviously a

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  41. When you win, I can assure you I enjoy them. I know afterwards I said before that it was relief, but you had that moment of sort of joy. The reason it was difficult to enjoy and why I'm probably different to a Peter Crouch on certain players who came in as that. I think they'd come in from clubs where they played once a week and if they played well, it was like, I don't need to worry to that game. I'm going to be offered two or three days, whereas we'd have a game Tuesday Champions League or a Cup game.

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  42. We've gone to the centre of Liverpool for a meal just to make sure eating the right food. Remember just staring, just couldn't stop. I was just wasn't even eating, just staring. Next thing is a text message Stevie Garard. He's there. He's going, don't worry about it. It's gone. Finished. You forget about it. You've got to try and. But I was just like, he could just see everyone was devastated. For me, I just trying to make out that I cared more than anybody else because everyone's got their own ways of dealing with things. A huge part of my life football. It always has been, always will be. I think I'll always be affected by football results. That's when I was playing as an Everton fan, as a Liverpool fan right now football results will affect me.

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  43. is I'm talking to him. I think she'd probably say that Maybe now at different times, but I would be in a trance. I'd just be sort of daydreaming people would be speaking to me and Probably best you should leave me alone and not try and get my mind off it I couldn't, even if it did get my mind off it, I know I'd go back to it. And you're talking about going home. I always remember one time where I said I was in a trance where I was with the players. So I always remember. Playing a game against Avon, which for me is the biggest game. I had a nightmare in the game, and we were going for a meal afterwards with the team, like an official, not a sort of few drinks. It was to refuel basically. This game was an early morning kickoff. We had a Champions League game on the Tuesday night in Eindhoven. We got beat three look

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  44. To be fair, my kids were quite young when I was still playing. But there was a one game that stands out when I couldn't get out of something. I was opening a restaurant. I opened a restaurant about 10 or 15 years ago called Cathy Sports England in Liverpool And the two times we opened Those two games I didn't play well and in my head before the game I'm thinking I've got to play well in this game because people will think if I don't play well I've got my mind somewhere else and I was probably too focused on the game in some ways and then I had to go and almost open the restaurant and there was people there Remember the second one, it was like no. I went, I was there 20 minutes. I was like, I've got to go.

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  45. I couldn't have shown me face if we'd have lost and I played poorly. Not a chance. And I couldn't believe that some players. Could just carry on with the life. I'd be a bit like, oh no, no, because the feeling in your stomach is that bad. You don't even want to be there. You don't want to be whipped people. You don't want to speak. You know, that's how much it got me. And I go back to that, you know, would it have been different at another club? I wouldn't never have wanted to play for another club. But that is the one thing I do think about, would it have results and performances affected me differently?

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  46. Yeah, I think it will have done. Yeah 100 I remember something came up a year or two ago on Twitter about A group of players or a certain player, or may have been a manager, went out and had a meal or a few drinks after they'd lost. And there was this big debate on Twitter. Well, why shouldn't the, you know, some fanual fans alike, he shouldn't be like, they shouldn't go out. And there was this few big debate, and I think Gary Linnick mentioned something that I've never not changed my plans on the back of results. Okay, that sounds nice. I thought it was unbelievable. I would change plans every single week if that game didn't go well. So that's where it was affecting my home life. So, in terms of organising a night out, going for a meal with friends, wherever it may be.

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  47. It was never anxiety. I would say anger, and I want to put this right. It's like, I didn't even want to sleep. I want to get to training the next day.

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  48. That wouldn't make you who you are. I could still never shake it off. I could, I couldn't, but I almost, by speaking to him, it made me understand and accept that's what I was. So I still went through turmoil if I didn't play well, if I made a mistake. I always wonder if that was... A byproduct of being a local player, I always think, what would I have been like if I played for Aston Billard or Tottenham? I didn't know that many people, you know, it felt like you were playing for. Club of the supporters of your family and friends really

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  49. I couldn't get it off my mind. I couldn't go like two nights when I was sleeping. I mean, I want to say not sleeping. I might get a couple of hours. I'll be like constantly on my mind and wake up. It'd be the first thing I think about. And I was just like... What am I doing to myself? But how would you stop it? But the fascinating thing was. When I spoke to the sports psychologist, a guy called Bill Bezwick, and I knew him from the England squad. Speaking to and then it got to the stage where I spoke to him probably two or three times a season almost like I reflect and you know what's gone on I couldn't change. We actually got to the bottom of actually, this is what's making you who you are. This is the drive to sort of, if you did probably dismiss mistakes or are not too bothered, I'll be fine next week.

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  50. If I made a mistake, and I always remember the mistake I made, it was a way of athletic call Madrid Champions League group game, we're winning 1-0, we're under pressure constantly, and I'm playing really well. I'm in control, that was me and my element away from home in Europe for Liverpool, trying to get that clean sheet, organised and talking to everyone. And a long ball, and I just misjudged it and they scored. and in the airport on the way home, I was just like, this can't go This has got to stop, you know, that what I'm actually doing to myself, I've played great, I've made a little mistake, you know, they've capitalized on it. Can't put yourself through that

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