YouSaid · the spoken record

Jean-Luc Diard

lines on the record: 53
first: 2026-02-02
most recent: 2026-02-02
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Sam Paulson, Alex Chung, Carrie Thompson, Catherine Cypher, Norgill, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Ross, and you've been listening to how I built this.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“As Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolai Mermou, co-founders of Hoka, both of them, by the way, have stayed involved with the brand. And as athletes, neither of them shows signs of slowing down. Jean Luc's Instagram shows him running up and down trails all over the world, and Nico has recently competed in ultra marathons in France, Switzerland, and Thailand. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. And if you're interested in insights, ideas, and lessons from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs, please sign up for my newsletter at guyroz.com or on substack. This episode was produced and researched by Ramel Wood with music composed by Rumtin Era Bluey. It was edited by Neva Grant, our engineers were Patrick Murray and Quasy Lee. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Christmas Eeny, John Isabella,”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When you think about the journey you took and where you ended up, I mean, it could have died. How much of where you got to with this do you attribute to the work you put in, the hard work, the grind, and how much do you think had to do with luck and timing and just the opportunities that were out there in the world?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, it's also interesting that a shoe that probably initially was dismissed as a trend. Oh, this is a trend, this ultra cushioning. I remember hearing that this rocker system has proven resilient. That is not a trend.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You've gone, I mean, think about it in 2012 3 million in sales to over 2 billion in sales. It's pretty amazing. I know you thought of this as a brand that would appeal beyond just runners and specialists that would be a mass consumer brand. Was this, I mean, could you have imagined that?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What's interesting is the first time I can remember really being conscious of hokas, I saw them on my mom. Like I saw them because they were so comfortable and you saw them on people who were a little older. Was that something you noticed also in the US?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was it step by step? You know, investments over time. But the idea was if this all worked out, eventually this will be a portfolio.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so it was clear to you that Deckers should be your partner, but now how is it going to work? I mean, it was an acquisition, but no.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, to fight the lawsuit. And meanwhile, there's another really important factor you have to consider, right? Because in order to build a successful running shoe brand, you have to be in the US because this is where the money is and where the customers are, right? And I mean, at this point, this is like 2012, I think only a few specialty running stores are selling your shoes in the U.S. And so I guess this is when you start looking for partners, strategic partners, like somebody who could really help you grow in the US. And I read that somehow you got put in touch with the team at Deckers, the company that owned Still owned Tevas and Ugs, right?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Your competitors were buying your shoes. Yes, yes. So you started to get Intel that you're the big players were taking your shoes to take them apart, basically. Can you patent? I mean, you can patent the design. We didn't.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So just to clarify the challenges, the supply chain challenge is that to get on these production lines was very hard because they're already making shoes for other companies, right? And so to get in there with your tiny little brand, that's a challenge. To finance it as a challenge, but then to get people to be aware of it is another challenge because you're a company of five, seven people.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“How were you dealing with the cash situation? You have to pay for these orders. Now you're talking about hundreds, thousands of shoes. How are you going to pay for that? This is what kills a lot of businesses. When you're growing too fast, you can't keep up and you've got to basically can't finance it and it collapses. Was there any possibility that you could have raised money? Was there culture? Was there a culture of being able to raise money from venture or investors in France at the time?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so 2010, I mean, you're getting all of these runners using the shoes. You're getting all this validation from the runners, from this community, sounds from the outside, like things are going great. What are the challenges you're facing?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, before you released the shoes for commercial purposes, I read that lots of people were saying to you, this is just not going to work. But you were hearing this repeatedly again and again from a lot of people, which sounds like it could be validation that your idea was not working.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We come back in just a moment, the founders start facing new problems supply chain, competition, cash flow, and they realize that outside investment won't really help them. They actually need something bigger. Stay with us. I'm Guy Ross, and you're listening to how I built this. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This I'm Guy Raz. So it's around 2009, 2010, and Nico and Jean-Luc are starting to take hokos to trade shows where they're doing everything they can to get runners to try them.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, how did you mean this, this could have just been a novelty kind of thing? How did you convince the first retailer to take a chance on these shoes?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now let's just talk about this for a moment. At this point, are you thinking this is really going to be a brand, a product for a small segment of people, or were you thinking big? Like this can be, no, you were already thinking big?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so you have something, I mean, at this point, I'm assuming you're starting to put in orders for your first shoe, but before we get there, no, we don't.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you ended the race number four Yeah, I mean, what about your body, your joints, your knees, your quads? Was there a marked difference in how you felt”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay. So when you ran these races, I mean, we talked about the race that Jean-Luc saw you in in 2007 and your legs collapsed.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, so yeah, just on this point, you are this is 2009, you are in shoes that are completely different. Nobody would be running a race in a shoe with a giant sole that's shaped like a rocker.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so let's just talk about this. So now Karzai is going to use your own shoes for marathons And both of these were they road marathons or were they trail marathons? No”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“May of that year, you once again run the Mount Blanc race. This is, I think, the second, third time you're going to run the race.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you're working with, so there are factories in China that are making this, and you have to convince them, was it, I mean, Why was it hard”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I want to clarify this point because, of course, this is an audio program mainly. When normal shoes that you run in, your foot is on top of the cushioning. This was different because the cushioning actually surrounded your foot. You were actually inside. And I could cushion”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So it was a stiffer foam. Nobody was making softer. But the technology was, I mean, it was possible to make it. Trevor Burrus, J”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So you knew that it had to be a rocker. Okay. So now, but the challenge was in order to do that, you needed a lot more foam. And that was going to add more weight. How much of a challenge was it to develop this technology”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Essentially, just these were really innovative shoes because they were like boats. They were like, it was like two little boats on your feet. Exactly.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That when you would land on your heel and it would just propel you up like a rocking chair. So was there anything out there?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so you guys start to have this conversation. And what, I mean, what do you remember? You said to Jean-Luc, or you said to Nico, said, well, why don't we develop, why don't we try to build a shoe that solves this problem? Do you remember how you came to this?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And I think one of the things you began to sort of document is that a runner's performance changes depending on the surface that they're running on during a race. Not all trails feel the same under your feet, right?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Your knees right when you're going down. Back. Yeah. I can picture it so many times because as a kid, you love running down grass hills or even when I hike now, I'm always very careful when I'm going downhill because I don't want to fall. I don't want to slip. And so really the conclusion you come to is that the downhill side, this is a technology problem. This can actually be solved.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because when you're going downhill, you're using more of your braking. Right. And so you're putting more strain on your quads, I think, than when you're going up, up is more calves. I guess it depends on how you run. Yeah, your quads, your knees”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And how did you, I mean, this is 101 miles, you're pounding, you're constantly pounding your joints, your body. I mean, you must have been just spent, wiped.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You do this insane ultramarathon, which I guess today 6,000 people start. You're going to run around Mount Blanc. And Jean-Luc, you're going to be part of his crew.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Interest Look at those big tires. Look at those fat skis. Look at those big golf clubs. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, I want to turn to you now, Nico, because I think you're going to run this ultra marathon, this ultra trail du Mont Blanc. Okay, so you do this. This is 2007. That's 101 miles around Mont Blanc. First of all, we've only talked about skiing and winter sports. I'm assuming you got into running at some point in your life.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All of these things are kind of swirling around. If I'm looking at the movie about your life, you're walking down the street and all these bubbles are just like the larger size. Yeah, go ahead.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay. Already at that point there were trends happening in all across sports, I guess just kind of oversized larger things, right?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, just an explosion in growth. All right. I want to jump to 2007 because this was going to be your last year at Salomon. From what I understand, you go to in 2007, you were at the outdoor retailer trade show. This is in Europe or in the US.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sean Luke, you would spend 27 years. At Salomon ultimately, and you became the CEO in 1998, when you became CEO of this group, because you saw Salomon go from a binding company to a bindings and boots company to a binding boots and ski company, then eventually a summer winter sports company, running shoes and apparel Arcturix apparel and even cycling and all these things, can you give me a sense of from the time you joined Salomon in 1980, 81 to the time you left, which we'll get to, what was the revenue from the beginning and then what was it at the end?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And finally, Nico, you graduate and you join Salomon. Tell me about, so you contact Jean-Luc and you say, okay, I'm done, I'm ready”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Got it. Okay, I want to turn to you now, Nico, because I think you were 20 years old when you first met Jean-Luc. You were still at university. And I guess you were at a ski race, you were racing. And from what I understand, you met Jean-Luc because he was there recruiting people to work on this new ski that Salomon was developing. Is that right?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's hard to imagine that it was not that long ago. We're talking about 30, 40 years ago, that you would still buy them separately, these components. And Salomon... Was a bindings brand And then they were sort of, they weren't sure if they should get into skis. But it just seems like an obvious today, in hindsight, seems totally obvious.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So this would begin a long career at Salomon. 1980 as an intern. You would eventually, we're going to get to it. You'd eventually become the CEO, present CEO. And I think in 1986 you are Put in charge of product for this new product, which is going to be skis. Which is going to really blow the whole, I mean, transform this brand. It's going to make it into a brand that is like Burton. I mean, it was going to become a huge brand.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He was just 23 years old. Jean-Luc joined a legendary French company called Salomon back when it was known primarily for ski bindings. And there, early in his career, he encountered someone who would shape the way he thought about building things and leading people. And that person was the namesake of the company. George Salomon.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Were unusually thick, the sole curved like the bottom of a rocking chair, and at first glance they kind of resembled clown shoes. In fact, that's what some professional runners called them in the beginning. But that look wasn't an accident. The founders didn't think of a running shoe as a piece of apparel. They thought of it like a machine, every single part doing a specific job, and every detail meticulously engineered. And it took time for people to get it, but once they did, the brand exploded. In 2012, Hoco was doing less than three million dollars in sales a year. Today, it generates more than two billion dollars. At the center of the story are two men who grew up not too far from each other in the French Alps, Jean-Luc Diard and Nicola Mermou. In nineteen eighty”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sometime around the 2010s, sneakers started to change. They got bigger, and they started to look almost like inflatable rafts with these thick, pillowy soles. Now, this was not intended to be about fashion, although thick-soled sneakers did become a fashion accessory. But originally, it was all about comfort and performance, and that change was ignited by two companies, both founded in Europe about a year apart. Both brands were started by elite runners, and both of them believed that more protection, more cushioning could actually improve your running. One of those brands was on, it's a story we told on the show back in twenty twenty four, and the other brand was Hoka, the subject of today's episode. When Hoka's shoes first appeared in late two thousand nine, they looked, well, just weird.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Welcome to How I Built This is a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. I'm Guy Ross, and on the show today have a crushing end to a race in the French Alps led to the launch of Hoka, a pillowy sneaker that now does over $2 billion in sales each year.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So give us a call or send us a voice memo to hibt at ID.wondere dot com and tell us how we can help you. Was there any possibility that you could have raised money? Was there culture? Was there a culture of being able to raise money from venture or investors in France at the time?”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Hey, just a quick message if you're building a business right now, imagine getting advice from the founder of Tart Cosmetics, or Airbnb, or even Sir Richard Branson or Mark Cuban. Well, you can get that advice. Every Thursday we drop an episode of the How I Built This Advice Line. It's where I bring back a previous founder we featured on a past episode. And together, we help real entrepreneurs, people selling skincare, dog toys, pottery, food, whatever. We help them work through the challenges they're facing right now. And the best part, this kind of advice world class battle tested is completely free. All you have to do is call one eight hundred four three one two nine eight, tell us what you're building in under a minute, and you might be the next guest on the advice.”
2026-02-02 · How I Built This with Guy Raz · HOKA: Jean-Luc Diard and Nicolas Mermoud. The “Clown Shoe” That Became a $2B Bonanza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT