YouSaid · the spoken record

Jennifer Garvey Berger

lines on the record: 103
first: 2018-10-16
most recent: 2018-10-16
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“That's exactly right. You can figure it out if you have the right expertise. Once you cross the midpoint into that unpredictable world, the rules of the game change and you move from being an ordered system, a system that has predictable patterns over time, to being a chaotic system or a complex system. And so Snowden calls one of those distinctions complex. And that's where there's a connection between cause and effect, but that connection is not available until afterwards. So after somebody wins the election, we can look back and say, oh, these are the reasons why that person won. But before it's anybody's bet, what's going to happen?”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So then he says, also in this predictable space, he says there are some things that were where cause and effect is still connected and it's still going to happen the same wage time, but it's tricky. Like you need some expertise to figure it out. You have to analyze exactly which kind of thing is it. And I need some kind of experience or background in this to be able to know.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The parts of organizations where you should be able to push a button and this thing will happen. I should be able to push a button and my paycheck will come out. I should be able to request something and this other thing will happen. The way the organization works is often founded on these kind of obvious or simple processes. And often what we offer to customers and organizations is also founded on this. A customer should be able to go to an ATM, put in a pin, and get money out, right? Like that's the way it's supposed to happen. If that starts to happen randomly, then you know there's something really wrong.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because it's happened once or even a dozen times. This way doesn't mean it'll happen that way the next time. And he further breaks down. Snowden further breaks down the kind of ordered part, the predictable part, into those things which he calls simple. And those things, or he calls them obvious, depending on when you read them, those things which are simple or obvious are those things where cause and effect is so tightly related that kind of everybody knows what's going to happen next, right?”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. So this framework comes from Dave Snowden, who is a thought leader in the complexity field. And Kennevan itself means sort of those things that come together to make a place a place. It's a Welsh word. It's spelled Sineophan, C-Y-N-E-F-I-N. And this Welsh word is like those forces or pieces that all come together to make a whole. And basically what this framework does is it helps us see a system, ask different questions, and it helps us take multiple perspectives. It differentiates between those things which are kind of predictable, repeatable, ordered systems. They happen the same way each time. And those things that are unpredictable, that are that just”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the phenomenon we either want to have more of if it's a great thing, like we're innovating mad, why is that? Or less of like it's a terrible thing. We're fighting with each other like mad or why is that? It gives us looking across the system gives us just much more scope for our possible action.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Dynamics of an organization create conflict between people. We tend to be looking for the root cause of something. But in complexity, there's no root cause. There's no root cause of a hurricane, right? There's no root cause of a tsunami. There's no root cause in nature. There are just many forces that interact together to get you a particular effect. Similarly, there's no root cause of trust. There's no root cause of leadership. These are all a series of things that happen together. And so being able to look across a system and trying to remember that that's the thing to do. Some people talk about a helicopter view or a balcony view or something that gives us a little bit of distance. That helps us understand how the parts interact and create the phenomenon we're looking at.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, one of the ways that humans naturally act, and this looks to be across culture, it looks to be across every distinction you could find in people, is that we categorize and segment. Like we break things down, we pull them apart, and tons and tons of our human advancement has come from our capacity to pull things apart and examine them. But actually in a complex space, That doesn't work, right? In a complex space, we have to see the way the holes create something bigger than the sum of their parts. And that sounds a little bit obvious, but actually it's really hard to do. It's really hard to figure out when you look at a trouble between two people on a team that are kind of fighting with each other. It's really hard to see how all the dynamics of that team are creating that conflict between those two people. It's hard to see how the”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In patterns of habits about how we make decisions and all of those can actually be played with. If we can see them, we can change them”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I'm just fascinated by the way people think about things, right? And I'm fascinated by the way our blindness to our own thinking creates problems for us. And so the thing that Keith Johnston and I, we wrote that book together, and the thing that we were playing with is what do we know about the patterns of development, the patterns of people who become developed and how are they different than kind of people who don't walk as fast down that path or don't walk that down that path at all, and there do seem to be some habits, just like there are some habits of people exercising their bodies or eating particular things. All those things are kind of the habits we think about. But we have habits of engaging with others. We have habits of thinking about the world.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's right. And what is, you know, I don't remember who said that the opposite of a simple truth is a simple lie, but the opposite of a profound truth is another profound truth. Like we're now in a world where we are very often having to balance profound truths against each other. And if we just think that they're simple truths and we cut off somebody else's perspective, we're missing massive parts of opportunity, of thread, of possibility in the world.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, because it's hard, right? Because it's in part because it's a developmental demand, it both creates development and requires development to take other people's perspectives, to take the perspective of someone with whom we disagree, right? It's easy for us to take the perspective of others who are like us. super easy we do it all the time but our natural kind of response to somebody who's quite different from us or somebody with whom we disagree is to just look at the ways those people are wrong To confirm our own sense of rightness. And so actually taking seriously the possibility that somebody else is right and you're wrong requires kind of a mental yoga that you have to remember to do.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Over time, as we begin to ask different questions, they push out our thinking and feeling and experiencing because so much of what we're doing is kind of the answer to a question, you know, like what you wear is the answer to what shall I wear today, right? Like, you know, our lives are living out answers to questions we don't notice that we're asking.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, they ask these big idea questions. They ask these why does it matter questions? They ask questions that we might think of as more foundational or more naive. And those are the questions, things we stopped even noticing we weren't asking they help us reas. And so different questions you can get them from anywhere. You can get them from your four year old. You can get them from your workmate. You can get them from somebody in a really different field, in a real with a really different way of looking at the world, you can get them from theories or perspectives. Like one of the different questions adult development theory lets us ask is who am I being right now? And is that the person I want to be? You bring that question into your everyday life and it moves you.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, the first thing we want to do, like with most developmental moves, the first thing we want to do is notice what are the questions I usually ask. And then we can start to set out acquiring new questions. Like, you know the experience, obviously, of being someone who asks a question that makes other people think or being on the hunt for a question that sort of shifts somebody's perspective about the world. And I don't think these are necessarily better questions because when I ask people who asks you the questions that make you think, the answer I get from almost everyone is my kids or young people.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“More developed as if we're farther down this path. And it gives us some of the goods that development brings, but in a way that can kind of speed up our journey down that path.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The longer I work with people, the more I read, the more research I do, the more I see that while we have forces in us that are helpful in complexity, we also have a whole lot of forces in us that fight directly against complexity. We've evolved in a much simpler world where we have much simpler approaches that are kind of baked into us. Our brains take up 30% of our daily energy and our system is always trying to figure out how to save calories by shortcutting. And so these habits, asking different questions, taking multiple perspectives and seeing systems are all about kind of intentionally engaging in a new way of being in the world that allows us to behave as if we're”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“On this decision or in this way or at this workplace or in this marriage in a really socialized way, how do I figure out what the voice in my head is telling me? How do I coax that self-authored voice out of me so that I can show up more in a way that I think is fit for purpose here?”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I think one of the things to do is to just watch because, as you say, we might be in a different place on one issue than another. And we can be asking ourselves, is this my biggest self that I'm bringing to this issue? You know, as I'm trying to decide which city to live in or what career to pursue, how much of the voices in my head belong to others around me? And do I like that or not? How much is about my own set of principles and values? And are they flexible and big enough for me to make this choice or not? You know, I think we can be kind of doing because we have a map, we can be checking our location and we can be thinking about, okay, so how could I be asking myself a different set of questions in order to help support me to grow to where I'd like to be next? So how can I, if I feel like I'm really active.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And it takes time. Like we're always, we have the possibility to always be growing. And that's kind of a glorious thing. And for some people, like they're into a rival.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It frustrates some people to imagine that it takes some time to get this, you know, that, like, I can't hear a lecture about adult development and then suddenly be more developed. Like there's work to be done. There's a journey to take. And so some people who hear about these ideas just want to figure out how to know about adult development enough to be developed. And knowing about development and being developed are actually different things.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Whole human beings. So whenever you take a lens, you're necessarily seeing some things and excluding the seeing of others, which is why you don't want to use just one. So that's a piece of its limitations. What do people not like about it? People don't like kind of two things and they kind of go in different directions. On the one hand, people don't like hierarchy or they don't like the idea of hierarchy, even though humans are incredibly hierarchical. We're mammals, mammals are incredibly hierarchical in status driven. Humans, we have a sense of hierarchy, but it often makes us uncomfortable, particularly when you live in kind of egalitarian societies. So that idea that some people have more of something than others can make some people uncomfortable. And it's one of the critiques of the field. The opposite idea is kind of”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, the limitations are probably endless, right? It is a single way of looking at what makes humans human. There are so many other things to look at. This is a thing that cuts across gender and class and culture, but is influenced by those things. And there are all kinds of different ways to look at what make us”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that this world of, I mean, particularly in politics, but the world of the soundbite has not been our friend, right? The soundbite that tries to put in a sentence or a phrase the complexity of an actual issue is necessarily misleading and partial. And the more addicted we get to sound bites and the more piped up we get by them, then the more simple our leadership will be as opposed to the more complex. It takes a little bit of effort and a little bit of slowing down and a little bit of breathing to get your head around a really complex situation. You can't do it instantly and you can't do it in a sound bite. And so that's why we have these like bizarre. Challenges these days about this super simplistic problem solving that in a complex world just tends to create bigger and bigger problems.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That they marched into disaster headlong, right? A curious leader listens to whispers and begins to make sense of them, not necessarily to believe them all, but to know that there's something going on to be attuned to.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think a leader needs to have a real curiosity about the world, a curiosity about other people's perspectives, a leader who feels certain cannot be learning from other people. So the more sure you are as a leader about exactly what's right and what's wrong, exactly where you're going, the less open you will be to hearing that you're wrong until it's too late. Whereas a leader with more curiosity, more openness to other people's perspective, which can be totally cultivated, right? You don't have to be born that way. You can achieve that with effort. A leader with more curiosity about those things is much more likely to be able to pick up on little signals that make a big difference before bad things happen. Like history is filled with leaders who were Told in whispers that there was disaster ahead and who were so certain about their own”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And be pretty sure that that away was good. And so we talk about leaders with these strong visions and all that kind of stuff. Right now, like who knows, right? Who knows what's going to happen next? Anybody who tells you they know what's going to happen next with the media or with professional services firms or in the tech industry or the insurance industry or whatever, like those people are delusional. We don't know what's going to happen next. The thing that we know is it's going to be different from now. And so we need a different kind of leadership to lead us into the unknown. And that sort of leadership needs to help other people be bigger because we need more collective force of leadership than any one human being can hold.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think the world is just so complex, Shane, right? It used to be that if you had a really smart charismatic leader, that person could know enough about the market. The market was going to be similar over time. That person could predict things pretty well. And that person could say, let's go that away.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We need now, the kind of leadership that the world is calling for from us now, which is not about having one person and following that one person.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, you're totally right. A charismatic leader, when he walks into the room or she walks into the room, makes you feel good about her or him, right? Like I walk into the room and I'm a charismatic leader and you think, wow, and you think about that person. A great leader, I think that great leader walks into the room and you feel bigger. Like you don't think, wow, what a great leader. You think, wow, I'm willing to say this thing. I feel more comfortable in my own skin. I'm just having ideas I haven't had before, like a great leader makes other people better. And I think that's the fundamental difference between kind of the charismatic, heroic image of leadership that has gotten, that has been a help for us and also a hindrance for us as a human race for a long time. And the kind of leadership that”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So much of leadership ability is about how other people experience themselves in your presence, right? So a great leader has a presence that makes other people bigger. I was a client who's a chief executive of a big company and I was with him a couple of weeks ago watching him as he met with people and as he had his meeting. The way he speaks to people brings out their goodness, right? You can see people actually kind of grow in his presence. They feel more comfortable to take risks. They feel more comfortable to say a thing that maybe is controversial. They have more room to play. And you can actually watch it kind of physically happen in their bodies. Stand a little straighter, they look them in the eye, they smile, they've got this kind of resonance that I think a truly stupendous leader brings into the world.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, it's, I think it's a math that helps us understand the terrain of our adult growth, but the particulars of it will be different. It helps us understand the motion of admin, but kind of how does it support you to grow might be slightly different to how to support me to grow. But we would be able to have some things in common so that while we couldn't predict with any certainty that this thing will make both of us grow, we could say this kind of thing is likely to support you and me, this kind of thing if we were to add it into organizations and into leadership development programs would be more supportive of people's growth and development than other sorts of things.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think that it is constantly changing, and I think we're also learning a lot about the way our bodies interact with these ideas, right? So a hungry body or an exhausted body or a stressed out body is not likely to be able to produce your best, most developed self. So how do we take care of that? How do we look after our own capacities as we grow them and maintain them over time? And how do we learn to recognize when we are being our biggest selves? Like, how can I see when am I showing up as kind of in the fullness of my capability? And when am I just feeling like cranky and whiny and not useful to the world? And therefore, what could I do to shift that pattern?”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That we can question them so that we can have perspective on them, and so that we can get people talk about agility a lot these days or living with ambiguity. Well, what does that mean? It actually means being able to see a world that's filled with grays and operate in that world anyway. And that's a developmental demand. It's not a skill. It's a thing we grow into.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think it's kind of the difference between developing people with kind of good intentions and hope and developing people with a real sense of what is it that's going on? Like what is it we're really after? You know for many years our healthcare, like for lots of human history, our healthcare was this way, right? Like people didn't understand anything about why people got sick or how they got better at all. And so they just kind of did random things and sometimes random things work and sometimes random things don't work. But without a kind of organizing sense of what's going on in the body, you can't really know what things going to help or not help. I think adult development offers us a much clearer set of distinctions about what are we trying to do in leadership development? How are we trying to make ourselves and our own assumptions more visible?”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I think it provides a really helpful space. I know so. Right, but we say that to adults all the time, right? I'm so annoyed with you, my 45 year old boss, because you are not as self-authored as I want you to be, without any support to help people grow into that space. So I think this offers a kind of granularity and a kind of a new sense of what is it we are exercising when we are growing and how can we exercise that.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's exactly right. Yeah. Exactly right. It's like right out of the corner of your eye. You can almost hold on to it, but not quite. And so when somebody gives you this map, you think, oh, I understand this terrain. And I think it's true that for people who like the farther along this path you walk, the more the earlier stages are kind of in you and familiar and revisitable, you know, like they arise in a different context or at a different time of day or whatever. The thing that's less common is that when you are earlier in the journey, you don't tend to have access to these later stages because you just haven't lived your way into them yet.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, to your first question Are we aware of them? Oftentimes people find hearing about this map is like naming a thing that was just on the tip of their tongue but they couldn't quite get to feel.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, exactly. And then for some people, that kind of work of polishing and perfecting that self-authored self, that self-authored system becomes like just too hard in the face of the difficulties of so many perspectives that yours will never, ever be big enough. Yours will never be full or rich enough. And so those people sort of say, oh, forget this wish to make this perspective bigger. I will just make sense. I'll begin to make sense holding both my perspective and your perspective simultaneously. And I will hold a cross perspectives so that I can not just work with what's inside me, but also work with what's outside me and hold them both. I can be the writer and the written at the same time.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A system of principles and values that I will live by and that I will polish up and try to make as good and strong as possible.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that's the socialized form of mine where you're kind of your sense of self esteem and right or wrong comes from outside you and is imported into you kind of without your say, right? And without your ability to have edit rights on those ways you are being written by the world around you. Then as you carry on, you get into this more self-authoring space. And in that self-authoring space, you have leaders who say now is the time for me to be kind of the decider about all these different voices, to really work at myself, to be incredibly self-reflective. People say, I am the instrument of my own leadership and therefore I need to be really clear about that. I need to be clear about my values and my principles and I need to really live by them, choose them well and live by them. And that kind of effort goes into creating”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And she said it's as if everybody's wearing a mirror on their chest, and I'm constantly checking myself against that mirror. And when I look over here, if the reflection I see of myself doesn't look good to me, then I have no choice but to like polish that up with that person and to try to make that person think differently about me so that I could think differently about myself. But I can't do that for everybody all at once. And it's totally overwhelming. And some days I wish I could just keep that in me and let them think about me what they think while I could keep constant a way of thinking about myself.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of those around them, but to breathe in the perspective of those around them. So I had a leader I was working with once who in this more socialized form of mind, she talked about now that she had become kind of the leader of this group of people that she had once been colleagues with, suddenly people had these much more conflicted opinions about her, right? Like as a colleague, she could be everybody's friend. But as the boss, she struggled in that regard. And she was constantly trying to figure out how can I make other people okay with me so that I can feel okay about myself.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Understandably so, right? And when he talked to me, he said, These kids are always asking for stuff, they want a car, they want new clothes, they want a nice place to live. Here I'm going to be able to do a better job at that than I've ever been able to do before. And I can't understand why they are still yammering on about this. Like, why are they whining when I'm giving them exactly what they want? And so the abstraction of like friendship and loyalty and community those sorts of things were not a live concepts for him in that moment. And he could not cross over from his perspective where he was super excited about this new opportunity. He could not cross over from his perspective into their perspective to imagine that they might have a different way of feeling about it. Now, over time, that shifts, right, as people then begin to not keep out the perspective.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. So in the self sovereign form of mine, which is early in our adult lives and most people outgrow it, not everybody, but most people, other people's perspectives are just unachievable, right? You just can't take and hold somebody else's perspective if it's different from yours. And that looks like a very black and white us against them kind of a world. And people in this space really struggle with abstractions. So I had a leader I was working with once in this place who had, he had just decided to move his family to a new place. And he had a lot of kids and several of them were in high school. And the kids who were in high school were really upset about moving around the world.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of a single system of our own. And we begin to live in a world that's much more collective, that's much more about understanding what I believe and also what you believe and understanding that together we form a bigger whole than we do by ourselves.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That conflicting stuff, we can move from this more socialized form of thinking and being into a place where we pick up the pen, we become more self-authored, we write our own story, we say, yeah, all these things that I used to breathe in, they're important and interesting, but actually I need to decide among them with some internal system of my own. And then over time, even that system, this thing we call a self-authored form of mind, even that begins to break down for some people as just the particularly leaders, by the way, as just the forces of the world and all the perspectives that we are meant to coordinate across become too much. And as they become too much, we begin to give up kind of the maintenance and protection.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, for sure. So earlier in the adult journey, most of us tend to be kind of embedded in or absorbed by the perspectives of others outside of us or the perspective of some kind of expertise outside of us. And we look outside of us in what I think of as a socialized way in order to figure out what to do, what success looks like. Am I doing a good job? Is this right or wrong? Where should I live? Like all those kinds of questions live outside of us. And we breathe them in and we take them in as our own. But as the world gets more confusing, more complex, as it's harder to figure out which of these many things we might breathe in and sort of absorb, which to do with all.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. Yeah, I love this stuff, as you could imagine. So basically, this is a set of theories coming from sort of the grandfather of it as a Harvard professor named Bill Perry who taught Harvard professor named Bob Keegan who taught me. And then there are cousin theories that come from the work of Jane Levinger and go into the lineage of Bill Torbert, Suzanne Cook Reuter, and others. And basically the idea here is that over time we develop an ever-increasing view of the world that those things that earlier in our lives we took for granted or we could not see become objects of our reflection so that we can make more choices about it. And those things that were kind of the lenses we looked through become the lenses we can choose to put on or Take off, giving us a bigger view of the world and more choices.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There is a map, an adult development map that helps us be more granular and specific about what it is we're looking at and what it is we're talking about when we talk about growing, when we talk about transforming, when we talk about wisdom. And this map directs us to say there are patterns in the way we humans grow and change over time. And those patterns, because if we understand them and because we kind of understand the rhythm of them, we can accelerate over time. And we can be much more intentional about our growing. than I think organizations almost ever are.”
2018-10-16 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #43 Jennifer Garvey Berger: The Mental Habits of Effective Leaders · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT