YouSaid · the spoken record

Jennifer Scanlon

lines on the record: 71
first: 2026-04-27
most recent: 2026-04-27
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Officially being for profit and kind of unleashing that type of energy. So in 2012, we split the two. I joined in 2019 as CEO of the for-profit with the relationships back to the not-for-profit around the standards development and the research. So today they are structured as three separate entities. the standards development organization is the shareholder of UL Solutions. So when we went public in 2024, two years ago last weekend, they were, it was a secondary offering and they received the full set of proceeds to fund their endowment for their standards development and for their research institutes. So we've got a separate board of trustees, a four public board of directors, four trustees sit on our board of directors.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, we were not for profit from our founding in 1894 until 2012. And while we had, you know, as I described earlier, that we were founded to do the safety science research, the standards development, and the public advocacy, immediately following the World's Fair, companies started coming to Underwriters Laboratories asking for their products to be tested and inspected, certified. We did that as a not-for-profit, but charged for the until 2012. In 2012, our trustees, the trustees of the not-for-profits, realized that our competitors, many European who were founded with kind of similar histories as not-for-profits, had the opportunity to both do a better job funding than not-for-profit side, but also unleashing, you know, in an increasingly competitive environment really.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ask about this structure then because you are describing the inner relationship between the three parts of UL. UL has it started off as obviously one big organization. How is UL structured now? You've got the three divisions, why the change and what are the divisions here?”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We really don't do politicking. What we do is in the standards development process, it's a consensus process. So as I said, our customers frequently come to us with the need for a standard. AI data centers are a great example. You know, moving to 800 volt DC is a very significant energy need and safety challenge. So how do we start building standards around that? kick that over to UL standards and engagement who's actually the standards development organization where they convene technical panels and follow a consensus-based process. So there's some pretty rigorous approaches to that standard development and the consensus grounded in science-based. Now getting that standard adopted by governments does take, and again, our standards development organization does this, the not-for-profit.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Written, they start using that outline of investigation, as we call it, to guide their product design and innovation so that they're more confident coming back to that insurance question, you know, of if something happens.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Not always. And I'll go back to, and we're going to talk more about this AI standard UL3115. But that started with our customers coming to us. And we see this a lot. Our customers saying, hey, as a manufacturer, and I spent almost 20 years in manufacturing, if there is a standard that we should adopt and that we know our competitors will adopt that levels the playing field and creates a marketplace and creates a consistent marketplace. So frequently our customers come to us and say, we see this happening. Help us think about how this new innovation, this new technology should be considering what the safety science is. And that becomes the precursor to writing a standard. And frequently our customers don't even wait for the standard to be”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's interesting because the choke point there is retail, right? The city is not going to let you sell a bike without the certification because it's deemed the bikes without the certifications to be dangerous. Is that consistently the kind of incentive that makes people adopt the standards or the certifications that you have to stop that there's enforcement somewhere?”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So it starts to proliferate. The good news is, since those standards were adopted in New York City, deaths have dropped by 75%. So there is a real need, you know, for the safety of humanity in these standards. And then that becomes picked up by other authorities having jurisdiction. communities like those other cities I named or even like local private campuses universities have expressed interest in you know what are these standards how do we think about ensuring that a dorm doesn't catch on fire or so so that's kind of the the genuine approach the authentic approach to how this happens there has to be you know the safety science that shows what you know what the answer could be and should be and then there has to be you know a recognition that that need is real and that”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A very useful item. So, how do you balance this? We at UL Solutions heard from a number of customers, worked with our not-for-profit partner, who is our largest shareholder, UL Standards and Engagement, to write three standards around the safe charging, the use of batteries, and just the ways in which lithium-ion batteries were installed on e-bikes, three standards. We went to New York City, worked with the mayor's team there as well as the fire services team there to ensure that those standards were written into New York law. Now, once a standard is written into local legislation, what that means is if you're a bicycle manufacturer, you're not going to manufacture a different bike or a different charger to sell into New York City than you would in Chicago or Toronto or LA.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, you know, it goes like this, and I'm going to give a really great example. Let's talk about e bikes and in particular e-mobility devices, but e-bikes in New York City. You know, five years ago, let's say, you know, I believe there were a couple dozen people who were killed in New York City. And why? Overcharging of the lithium-ion batteries, lithium-ion batteries have a different chemical composition. The thermal runaway happens faster. The chemicals are more difficult to put out. And, you know, I hate to say in a typical house fire, you have a couple minutes to get out with a lithium ion battery fire, you have fewer than 30 seconds to come out alive. So you've got this problem. People are dying. You've got this problem, which is people are excited to use e-bikes. because they're an affordable mode of transportation.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So that sounds like a pretty big mix, right? You still have insurance companies saying you need UL listed devices in your house, or maybe we won't play claims, or if there's in the United States in particular, if there's litigation around the safety of the products, this certification is going to be important. You might have some governments insisting on various logos. I think we can all see the certification logos and the products we have. Is it a mix? How do you as the CEO think about, okay, these are the constituents who want this logo? I'm going to go take their needs and tell the industry, particularly the tech industry, which doesn't like to listen to anyone.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a really important question, and relevance is a really important strategic concept that we focus on a lot. You know, who does it matter to if your product has been certified to a UL standard or even another standard? We certify to over 4,000 standards, only 1,500 of those are actual UL standards. So there's others, authorities having jurisdiction and standards development organizations globally. The importance of this is that governments, certainly insurance companies, underwriters even today and in the US tort system, that becomes very important, they are looking to ensure that either what they're underwriting is safe, what various agencies of governments around the world deem safe, and how do you continue to build that trust.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. So, when you had a bunch of insurance companies saying, we won't pay your insurance claims if the thing that burned down your house wasn't UL certified, well, that provided an awful lot of incentive for people to go get that testing done to pay for it. At the time, UL was a nonprofit. A lot of that's changed since then, right? Where does the authority or the incentive to participate in the UL process come from anymore?”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, some of the most current ones AI safety and the ways in which AI is being embedded in products and the ways in which humans engage with the safety of AI and products. And so our newest, as we call it, an outline of investigation, which is a precursor to writing standards, was published in November. And it's all around the safe use of AI embedded in products.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, you know, I like to say that the basis of our company was to address the safety of the technology of the day. And at the time, 1894, World's Fair, right, you know, on the edge of University of Chicago, where both you and I have a bit of history, the underwriters electrical bureau did bring our founder to Chicago to help do some primary scientific research on the safety of electricity to write standards about how that electricity should be used, both manufactured and embedded into products and installed and safely used in buildings, and then perform public advocacy, educating people on the new technologies. So fast forward, certainly with the electrification of everything, the energy transition, AI data centers, you know, electricity and electrical safety continues to be a primary worry and a driving force, but there's lots of other new technologies.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't think the engineers I think you should ask them. I think they would let you. I got to be honest with you. I know a few engineers. I think they might be like, yeah, we'll set something up for you.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Most dangerous test, you know, I do think our hazardous location testing, which is in Northbrook every once in a while my office is kind of right above it, and you'll feel a little shake. And you really think, how bad could it be that a lumineer in a combustible dust environment sparks? Well, if you think about that, you know, you're out on an oil rig, you're out in some factory. You know, a lot of lives could be lost. And so, you know, while the test itself is well controlled, it really makes you think about, you know, the lives that are at stake of what we're doing every single day.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And kind of collapse upon themselves and they instead exploded, and it took a number of days to clean up the two million failed soda pop cans. And that's what we do. We protect our customers. They needed to know that what they thought was going to happen didn't happen.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A lighted piece of paper in the middle to see what would happen. And to this day, I don't know if we were testing the aluminum, the labels, the contents, but I do know the test failed. They were supposed to cave in.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I always like to say we break things, we blow them up, we light them on fire, and so if you were to walk into our testing facility here in Northbrook, Illinois, in Europe, in China, in India, anywhere in the world, what you'll see is, first of all, large electrical panels that are there, you know, charging discharging products, batteries, and seeing what fails, watching a lithium-ion battery the size of my thumb, you know, blow up is pretty terrifying. It's amazing how wide that blast will go. So we do a lot of inherently unsafe things to test product safety. I think my most favorite test, the team, I wasn't there, but I got to see pictures of it. We stacked two million, two million soda pop cans in our large scale fire testing warehouse and then dry.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We do have people who drop things off of cliffs and see if they explode, but really every single day we have 15,000 employees around the world working for a safer world. And they are testing, inspecting, and certifying products. And they are also creating software to help our customers manage their risk and compliance environments.”
2026-04-27 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · That UL safety logo is a lot more complicated than it looks · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT