YouSaid · the spoken record

Jocko Willink

lines on the record: 94
first: 2021-07-05
most recent: 2021-07-05
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“We were to assume that what you're saying is accurate, then my advice would be hey, listen, you need to start putting a little bit more time and effort into training up some subordinate leadership that has the trust, knowledge, and expertise that you will be able to turn over some of these details to. For two reasons. Number one, so you can let your brain, you can survive a little longer, as he put it, but also All the time that you spend as a leader looking down and into your organization is time that you're not looking up and out. So when you're not looking up and out, you're not seeing what the competitors doing. You're not seeing where the market's going. There's problems that can come from that. So if right now he's spending too much time looking down and in and you mentioned, you know, you said, I don't know if I want to do a startup. When you do a startup, you're going to be looking down and in for a while. It's going to take a while. You're going to have to do all this work yourself. You're not going to have the finances to put people manpower behind these things.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So hopefully in the near future he will start to form more decentralized command where he has some subordinate leadership that he fully trusts and most important that he is properly trained so that they can handle these day-to-day fires at least 80% of them so only 20% of the time does he actually need to go in and solve a problem. If he's not doing that right now then that's going to end up being a problem. Anytime so I work with companies all the time and that's what's interesting about this is I go and work with a CEO or with a C-suite of a company. It takes a little while to figure out what's going on. I'm kind of going off of the things that you're telling me almost anecdotally, right? Yes. But let's say that, and also, I don't know how familiar you actually are with the inner worksings of his companies, but”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because if he felt the need to micromanage each and every part on a Tesla Wouldn't be very unlikely that he would have the capacity to do all that. Now, he can hand over some broad chip design and say, hey, this is what the function needs to be. And he gives it to Lex and Lex goes there with your team and you figured it out and you make it happen. If he had to actually do that all himself, most likely not possible. So that's what leaders should be doing. They should go elevate and then get down in the weeds when they have to and then go back up”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So that's good for me to be able to come in from a higher perspective and have a look at it. But also, there's times where I need to get down there and actually look. You know, if you're looking at a problem and you say, look, I can't figure out, boss, I can't figure out how to get to this target. And I'm looking at it from a distance and I don't see. I might need to start digging in and looking and saying, oh, here's a route that we can take that actually makes sense. Let's try that. So I think it's a good example of someone going up and down in altitude to look at problems understanding what's happening with the frontline troops and at the same time being able to go back to the strategic level. And I can, it's probably this way. The reason that he's successful is because he doesn't get stuck down there.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When there's a problem, that's when he might have to get down there and dig into some details so that he fully understands it. So that he, when he digs down into details, and this is important. He's coming from an altitude where he has a bigger perspective, not necessarily better, but a bigger perspective. So if you sit there and work on a problem, whatever for eight hours and you're staring at, you know, if you were planning a mission and you were planning it for eight hours, you were staring at the maps and the charts and you're figuring out where all the troops are going to be located. And I come in after eight hours and I look at your plan from a distant perspective. There's a good chance I'll be able to see holes in your plan that you couldn't see because your perspective was too close.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and that's a common trait that good leaders have. And maybe he doesn't necessarily know how to do everything, a good leader, but they go down there and talk to the frontline troops and say, hey, what is the issue that you're dealing with? How can I support you? How can I give you help? And one key point that you said is he said when there's a problem, he gets in there. So there's things happening at his companies that they're working. And so he doesn't have to die. I'm not saying he never does, but he doesn't have to spend as much time working on or looking at some subsystem that's functioning well. He's got a good leader in there that's handling it and he checks in with that leader. And the leader says, yeah, it's working perfectly. He says, great.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, if that's where Elon comes from, hey, listen, we got to make this happen. This is for the good of the world to do this. And people know that, then it works.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But it's interesting because I always talk about building relationships and making sure you're not offending someone. So, how do these things match up? Well, I can tell you how they match up. When I was being harsh, the guys that I was being harsh with knew without one shred of doubt that I cared about them more than anything else and that the reason I was giving them this feedback is because I wanted them to be able to lead their troops. I wanted to be able to go accomplish their mission and I wanted them to be able to bring their guys home from war. I wasn't being harsh because it elevated my ego. I wasn't being harsh because I wanted to denigrate them. I was being actually being harsh because I wanted them to accomplish the mission.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So let's I don't want to hear his whole character. I'll go one section at a time. So we got a guy that's harsh. And asking the really hard questions, how can that be good or why is that good? Well, first of all, it can be horrible. And there's leaders out there that are harsh and they're hated, and no one likes them, and no one wants to work for them, and they never do anything. So, what is it that Elon Musk does that gives him the ability to be harsh? So I was, Hearing a description of me. When I would give feedback to young seals That had made mistakes during training operations. And the description was that I, same thing, like this harsh, blunt force trauma and just totally direct. Sledgehammer of Truth that I would hit guys with.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, depending on the human being that we're talking about, and you just mentioned earlier that human beings are more complex than anything and do a better job at just about everything than a robot. So that's the same thing with leadership. You've got all these different characteristics and you match them or mix them together. And depending on where the ratings come out, depending on how that thing... In the”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Depending on how all those characteristics match up, you can have somebody that is very introverted, but they're still a very good leader because when they do communicate, they do it in a clear, simple manner that everyone understands. So even though they're a little bit introverted, people still respect them and listen to them because they communicate in a clear way. You could have somebody that's extremely charismatic, extremely charismatic. And everyone looks to them, but they're slow in making decisions. And so now we've got someone that can't really make decisions when decisions need to get made. So even though they're charismatic, they're still not a good leader.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, so now that question is a little bit different now. So now it's getting into a more specific question, but at the same time, a more broad question of what elements does it take to make a good leader So you're right that different people have different personalities, different tendencies, different levels of ego. And the That I try and explain this Like a video game, and I'm not even a video game player, but I've seen this before where video game characters have various skills, various strengths and weaknesses. So maybe they're strong, but they're dumb, or maybe they're strong and smart, but they're slow. Just give them these ratings. And so that's what human beings are. And that's the way leaders are. And you can have different leaders with different characteristics.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm sorry to disappoint you again with my lack of worry for all these problems, but I don't worry too much about it. You know what? We've made it through a bunch of wickets so far as a species and we'll make it through some more or we won't. And if we don't make it through some of these wickets and someone decides that what they're going to do over the weekend is create some crazy virus that spreads and kills everybody.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and that's why, like I said, and like you just said, you have protocols in place that are a kill switch. And if you think about the amount of nuclear weapons that we've had on planet Earth for the past however many years. And there's been, you know, no rogue element that said, you know what, I'm going to shoot this thing. There's been no protocol that took place where all of a sudden we said. Oh no. I mean, there's been escalations, but the protocols worked, have worked so far. That's a scary thing to think about that we rely on these protocols to stop some rogue element out there from launching a missile that could kill millions of people and trigger a global war. So, yeah, the protocol should be strict.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that's because you have a vision into the shortfalls of AI, and I don't. I don't have a vision of the shortfalls of AI. I don't know enough about it. As far as I'm concerned, you put a on-off switch somewhere, you put a kill switch on a system, and if it starts going awry, you hit the kill switch, and that's it. So if, you know, when you look at me and say, well, there's no possible way to put a kill switch, that would be 100% effective. And here's you draw those concerns to me and we could talk through it and say, okay, well, here's where we should draw the line.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't really worry about it. But as you design something, like I said, you put protocols in place. And from what I am hearing you say or trying to hear you say, there's be a point where our protocols wouldn't be. Wouldn't be sufficient to stop the machine from doing something that was unethical.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, do we not put protocols in place to prevent something from going too far outside the boundaries of what we wanted to execute?”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I guess what you're asking me is if they could make a machine that could do more surgical attacks on enemy individuals Before it? Yes, I would be for it”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think like anything else, if it's balanced correctly, it's great, and if it goes to some extreme level, then it becomes a negative, and I think it's probably sourced in some sort of Animalistic tribalism that we all have to be part of a tribe. And this is a real big tribe that you get to be a part of. And all you have to do is kind of show up. And so when someone says, hey, we're going to play hockey against the Russians. Well, we're going to cheer for the American boys.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think you get to a point where you accept the fact that you can die. Like I said, you can do everything right. You roll out the gate, you hit an IED triple stack subsurface IED, and you're done. You're done. And there's nothing that's going to stop that. It's going to happen. And I think if you're scared of that or you're thinking about that, it's going to inhibit your ability to do your job properly. And I think it's also going to drive you crazy. The thing that I thought about more was that happening to my guys. And that's the gut-wrenching terror that you feel when. When operations happen”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think about, I know that I'm lucky to be here. I know that many people sacrificed to give me this opportunity to be here. I don't dwell on it”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, yeah, if there's mistakes made, then you're going to sit there and beat yourself up eternally for mistakes that were made”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There's a million different ways to get killed in the war, and you can go out on an operation and you can do everything wrong and you can survive. You can go out in an operation and do everything perfect, and you can get killed.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so, even though I wouldn't want any of my children to suffer through the worst of times, At the same time, the bud is I would want them to have the opportunity to feel that bond that you're referring to earlier and to see human beings that are willing to sacrifice their lives for their friends.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you and I have been talking about the fact that struggle brings people together and brings out the best and the worst. It brings out the worst in people. War brings out the worst in people. It also brings out the best in people. Would you want your kid to go and enter in a wrestling tournament where You paid all the other kids off and your kid won. Or you enter them in a jiu-jitsu tournament where their purple belt and you know that everyone that they're going to fight against is a white belt. And so they get the big W. They get the win They don't really get tested and they don't really struggle. And if you don't struggle, you don't grow. So that's the butt, right? The absolute best times of my life. Were in combat And the worst times of my life were in combat.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think using the term brothers in arms means the people that are on my side, right? So it doesn't make sense to. Start wars with people that are on your side. So that might just be the way the lyrics are written so that it fit the song or whatever. I think broadly what you're asking me is, is war foolish? And I would say the answer is yes. And if you can avoid it, you absolutely should. But if there is a Bear or a wolf that is trying to get into your house. Is it foolish to shoot that bear or shoot that wolf? I think the answer is pretty obvious. So when you're threatened or your family are threatened or your way of life is threatened, then you have to do something to try and defend your family, your way of life. It should be the last resort. Should be the last resort”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And you've got to remember, I mean, we're seeing these Iraqi kids that are living under this sadistic Sadistic terror. Iraqi women that are being raped and abused by these insurgents And so on the one side, we become the Iraqi populace is very humanized to us because we're talking to them, we've got interpreters, we understand, we're seeing them day after day, the same individuals. And so we form a bond with the local populace. And yet we see what the insurgents are doing. And so it's, again, not difficult to dehumanize people that behave in that manner.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They've been dehumanized. And so as far as looking at them and thinking, oh, this is a human, another human that's on the level of my uncle or my brother. I didn't think of them out that way. I thought of them as As murdering, raping, evil. Subhumans.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it depends a lot on the scenario. I know that when I was in Iraq fighting, we talk a lot about the dehumanization of the enemy, and it's something that the governments will do. I mean, governments will do that to each other. I mean, the Japanese dehumanized the Americans and the Americans dehumanized the Japanese and the Americans dehumanized the Nazis and the Nazis dehumanized the Americans so that to remove as much of that human unhuman killing. Aspect that you're talking about. What I've said is that when we were in Iraq, We didn't have to dehumanize the enemy because the enemy dehumanized themselves through their actions, through their behaviors, when we know that they are torturing and raping and murdering the local populace.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I mean, I guess you'd have to look at what circumstances a person's in when this is taking place. If you've got someone that's in a... A fit of rage that goes and kills somebody. They're going to come out of it and think, wow, I just really messed up if you've got someone that is a Sociopath, right? They're not going to feel anything and that person deserved to die and that's why they died. If you've got a soldier who feels like they're trying to protect their friends. They'll move through that. If you've got a soldier that's doing it because they want some kind of personal glory, they'll probably. Feel good about it later. So I think it depends on the situation. I think it depends on the psychology of the individual that's going through it.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Leaders are going to make mistakes, it's impossible to know what's going to happen in war just like it's impossible to know what's going to happen in life at the time And you will make mistakes. And if you fail to admit that you made a mistake, that's where I have a more significant problem than someone that makes a mistake and says, hey, this is the mistake that I made. This is the intelligence that I thought we were utilizing. And it actually is not what I thought it was going to be. And here's the new direction that we're going in. Don't have enough of that. Type of ownership in leadership globally.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Maybe we think well not that many civilians and maybe not that many of our personnel are going to die. And that's where you get into sticky situations. And another thing when you were talking about The Soviet Union versus the Nazis, that's total war. That's what that is. And we don't engage in that very often. It's total war. And America doesn't fight like that very often. In fact, the last time we fought like that was World War II. It was total war. We will do whatever it takes up to and including the atomic bomb to destroy the enemy. So, those are the kind of things you need to think about before you go to war. And I don't think we think about that very often.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Have to look at the situation that you're going into, and you have to make sure that you have. The will to go to war, and the will to go to war means that you are willing to kill people? And when I say people, I don't just mean enemy because in war civilians are going to die, women and children are going to die. A lot of people are going to die. And so you are going to kill them. Doesn't matter what kind of smart munitions you have. It doesn't matter how disciplined your soldiers are. When you go into a war, civilians are going to die and you have to understand that. And the other thing that you have to understand is that Your troops are also going to die. And it seems like sometimes we're a little bit naive about the calculation of what that's going to look like.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think you have the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese trying to impose their will on other nations and other peoples, and when that happens, I think on a grand scale, people look at that. And It's just to step in and do something about it.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think one of the things with Hitler was in the beginning of the war, he listened to his advisors, he listened to his generals and Therefore, they did pretty well with that. I think as the war went on, he believed that he was smarter than he was and made decisions that were bad that Cost him dearly. I mean, case in point, as everyone knows, going and attacking the Soviet Union while you're still fighting a war on the other front is not a good move. There's an example of, yeah, bad leadership, letting your ego get in the way, believing that you can do things that are beyond your capabilities. But, you know, as you mentioned in the beginning with Blitzkra We're really dynamic and bold moves, and they worked. And that, what does that do? That fuels your ego and makes you think that. Can win”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The choice was die now, trying, or die later on your knees. And I think the choice was pretty clear as far as the tactics go. I mean, there is this is attrition warfare. That's what that is. We are going to keep, you said throwing bodies at the problem. That's attrition warfare. And the Soviet Union had a lot of bodies more than the Germans. And when you fight with attrition warfare, whoever has more men and material will eventually win. It's an awful way. But that's what the strategy was.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's awful It's awful when a soldier dies. It's awful when a civilian dies. It's awful when ten civilians or ten soldiers, and it's even more awful when millions and millions of soldiers and civilians die. Think it's safe to say that the Soviet Union was facing an existential threat to their existence against the Nazis. So to not fight would be to die as well, maybe die a death a few years later, maybe die a different way, but”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Survive. And so the entire nation has that common thread. And that's probably the thing that you sense or feel when you refer back to the bond that resonates all the way back to World War II.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Comes next is special forces training or ranger training, and what they do is they put you in these situations where you're going to suffer together and you're going to build these bonds because, as I said earlier, you have to rely on each other to survive. By the way, not everyone does. Not everyone makes it through this training. So you sort of have these memories of people that didn't make it. You share that connection as well. And you can keep going down this road until you go into combat with a military unit. And military units that go through combat have an even tighter bond. And the harder the combat that they go through, the tighter the bond is going to be. So I think when you talk about what the Soviet Union went through in World War II, there was a shared suffering.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, to make that bond a little bit stronger after you get done with boot camp, they send you to advanced infantry school and you suffer some more together. And when you suffer more together, now you're in a smaller group too, because now it's infantry, it's not supplied people anymore or logisticians, it's strictly People that are going to fight their infantrymen. So they go through a school together, and now they get a little bit tighter. get done with that Maybe you go to an airborne division. So you go to airborne school, and now you all overcome this fear of jumping out of an airplane together and you celebrate surviving that. Maybe you get done with that. Now you get at an airborne division. Now you're an even tighter group because you've suffered together.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, if you look at Military training. What they do is they take people in the military. From the civilian world, they bring them into the military and they put them through boot camp. Which is the stereotypical thing that you see on TV? You're going to get yelled at, you're going to get screamed at, you're going to get put in the mud, and you're going to be made to do hard things together. And... Does that do with those civilians? Well, it gives them a common background. It gives them a common suffering that they've been through together. They Some sort of connection, some sort of bond.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't know because there's a lot of things that I haven't experienced in my life, but I think the pressure and the consequences of war Could be similar situations in survival scenarios in various atrocities where people need to work together in order to survive. And I think you could probably get something that was. Similar”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because what you realize when you're in a war. Is that the people that are next to you? You rely on them, and they're relying on you to survive. And without them you will not survive. When you realize that you need to work together as a team to That forms a very strong bond.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's tragic because a lot of people die And it's beautiful because you form bonds with people that. Very difficult to break once you've been through them.”
2021-07-05 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #197 – Jocko Willink: War, Leadership, and Discipline · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source