YouSaid · the spoken record

Joe Menn

lines on the record: 85
first: 2019-08-21
most recent: 2019-08-21
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“So they understood that technology is supposed to be a force for good and that it's not just about the tech. The tech is a means to an end. And that end includes human rights, the right to free information being one of them. And they're willing to be very creative about how to do that. And so, I mean, I would have given up on trying to get Microsoft to do the right thing on security long before they did. But they did that over years. And then they're willing to do it. They're willing to talk to people from different in different. Some of them work for the US intelligence. Some of them hated US intelligence. It was a big tent, but they had basic values and they were willing to think it through and sort of challenge each other. And it's like, well, if Congress doesn't know what to do, we'll figure out how to talk to Congress. They're willing to keep evolving into new arenas while maintaining their older values.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I was just with some people, I'm not going to say which company they're like, oh, it's just like TB ads. I'm like, you have to stop. It is not the same thing. It is amplified. It is targeted. It is weaponized. It is not the same as a TV show going across your TV. It's not the same level engagement. Anyway, it goes on and on. So I want to finish the last word for you of the one thing that this cult of the dead cow did, what do they present about computing that's good?”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They could do it themselves because once they know anything about you, I mean, this is really sinister stuff they did. They find the person that believes in the UFOs and they pedal them the most loony conspiracy theory. And if people just sort of concerned about immigration, then they show them the hyped up, fake news stories about rapists.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, 30, 60 days before an election would make sense. Maybe if the government is not going to mandate that, maybe the tech companies could.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Investigations, but you don't want the companies to be panicked because some of the, you know, some of the administration has this ill-supported idea about conservative suppression. Yeah. So you don't want them trying to make the antitrust thing go away by promoting more conservative stuff? I think transparency is really important. I also think banning micro-targeting issue ads, at least.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Social media is the hardest because of free speech, which is a good thing, and the right to satire is certainly a good thing. I'm talking about...”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They can. What should, you know, with all this talk about regulation this week around all these companies, what should government do? Let's finish up with that. What are the three things if you had to pass? The U.S.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And they can do amazing things. They are helping. They can't solve the problem. They are helping. There's sort of this conspiracy of good guys. A lot of them were influenced by this group or were in this group, but they're more coming. And they need to know that they can make a difference. And I think they can.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you know, again, one of the things that's great about this group and that we need to learn from is critical thinking. I mean, critical thinking seems to be in a state of dire emergency. We have more people than any time the last 200 years believing that the Earth is flat. We have total disregard for the truth and for science at a time when science is incredibly critical. So we need to make”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean we're What is anyone doing about it? So you have the, first of all, you have criminals trying to get into consumer stuff, you have nation states trying to attack grids and other election voting machines, everything else. And you have our own government wanting very much to have the capabilities to do this, also some of which for good reasons, but always in the end.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I am pretty worried about that. And the UK passed Snoopers Charter, which basically said the UK thinks it can tell a company to hack a customer. Australia passed something similar. These are the five eyes. These are supposed to be the bulwark. And what's crazy is that not only are secrets, but our corporate assets, intellectual property and everything else, are protected by encryption. Our bank accounts are protected by encryption. And it is... You put in a back door, it will be misused. 100%. It always happens. And when the Chinese went after Google in 2009, 2008, one of the things they went for was the Kalia, the system for tracking where they do have to help law enforcement tap a given account. They went after that probably to see which people in China is the US tapping. It's a natural intelligence target.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We don't know. So only if the company appeals and makes a big stink about it, then we've got a shot at finding out. So I wrote that the feds had gone to Facebook and said, we want to be able to tap calls over Facebook Messenger. And it wasn't technically feasible then. And so they wanted to order Facebook to come up with a change in its program so they could do this. And that's not what the law said. And Facebook wanted, but we just barely found out about that. And there still is no almost no public record of that. There's one sentence in a 50-page ruling that we found where...”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the problem is that a lot of this starts in secret courts. And we don't find out about it. So, if there is a company that has rolled over.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To allow That's right. They refuse to hack a user's phone. And the FBI carefully picked the least case to try and build case law around it. So it was an actual murderous terrorist and who's dead anyway. Why can't you hack into his phone? They were trying to use that as a precedent to do it a much more widely precedent.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It is so easy to track people. And now they're being very aggressive with the warrant. So Cell Tower dumps. If they're trying to solve a crime, give us everybody who was near this cell tower at the time of this crime. Obviously, that's going to turn over innocent people stuff. What do they do with that afterwards? There's all these sort of broad things, and they're trying to force more backdoors. And that is a disaster. And these guys at CDC were among the early people in fighting backdoors. Stamos and others have continued who were influenced by them, have continued to do that. Mudge has continued to do that.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So we didn't talk about the other stuff. I mean, the location for me, this is why it's so infuriating when people like, oh, the Attorney General of the United States devote a whole speech to this horrible going dark problem when they have so much more information about you than you or your companies. The constant pinging of your phone for location data, all these apps that you gave permissions to, you didn't go back and see what they're using it for.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Aren't It's better Long as most important strange is second most important and the real problem is reuse. Do not do that. Use a different password everywhere. And people make fun of the post-its on the computer terminal. That's actually not all that bad. I mean, you should be concerned about who has access to your house. Right.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think two factor authentication of the text if you have to because others aren't doing it all. It's like having a second lock on your door. Anyone can get into a locked door, but if you have two, they're like, oh, we're going to go to the unlocked door, which is just easier. It's better, but it's certainly hackable. Long passwords, obviously, long, strange passwords.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, you know, 2FA is a good thing, in particular a fit to fit SMS, because text messages are among the least secure things on the planet. So you need to come up with a different system for SMS, for two-factor. For example, a UB key that you can stick into a USB port and say, even if somebody steals my password, they can't use it at a computer that does not also have this particular Gizmo inserted into the USB drive. Right.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I mean, I have my own security protocols, you know, which are like, you know. My friends in security have coached me on, but it's 30 or 40 pages. It's a lot of work”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I've said that for years, but it is actually starting to happen. Some of the nastiest email compromises or whatever, is there bad guys who are looking for people about to buy a house? And they'll pretend to be your realtor and say, hey, we need you to wire the escrow money today. And so there are people that are losing houses now because of cybercrime, which did not used to happen. Now, you have to remember on the other side of the planet, Russia, Ukraine, Nigeria, whatever, there's people's jobs. They go to work in the morning, and this is what they do. They try and look for people to host.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, no, it's actually worse than it's ever been, which is really saying something. People are doing everything online and they're being promiscuous about it. I mean, my feeling is, I mean, I personally, I will use a credit card online, never a debit card, which is harder to recover from fraud. But I'll go to a few big places that I know have decent security rather than any Tom Deck or Harry with a website. So most people do not do that. They'll spread it around. And they might not check their credit card statements at all. But if they do, they might not notice things that are a little out of whack. Let's see. There's that. I mean, the good news is most consumers have protection from their banks or their credit card companies. And so there hasn't been this sort of crisis where people lose their houses.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All right, let's first start with the consumer threat, and then we'll get into grid and governmental threat. Consumers with their own information. I'm going to get to sort of what happened with Russians and Facebook and everything else. Talk a little bit about that. How vulnerable are consumers?”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, our defenses suck. We have the most to lose, and we continue to invest about 90% of our cyber monies on offense, if you include interception as a part of offense. And that's something I've written about frequently, and that's a recipe for disaster. The other big problem is escalation. If we are starting to use cyber weapons against Iranians, we don't like who do bad things or whatever, and they come back at us, and there are no clearer rules of engagement. And what our rules are are classified. So it's hard to attribute, even if you do attribute, it's hard to attack the right folks and not have any collateral civilian infrastructure damage because everybody wants to be online and then you don't know what they're going to do back to you, but it might well be worse.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just like everything else is about the tech. So it's become more of a geopolitical thing, as I had expected, and so it's a weapon, and it's being used. And the unfortunate part about that is that the United States has the most, perhaps the most to lose because we have so many assets tied up online. And we're so connected and super vulnerable. At the same time, we are super ineffective in getting decent security out around companies. I mean, one advantage to living in a dictatorship is that if the head of the country says you will, you know, patch your window systems now, it gets done. And we seem to be allergic to any kind of regulation. And so that doesn't happen. Chamber of Commerce objects even to publishing best practices for giving critical industry.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so the big picture is pretty bad, which is why I think it's important to learn from what has worked in the past. So nation states are all over this now. And when I started covering security, it was 80% of Silicon Valley story and 20% of Washington story. And now it's completely flipped. It's 80% Washington story. So that means the FBI in pursuit of international hackers and local hackers. And it means the NSA and the CIA. I mean, now their job isn't really human intelligence is still important, but it's all about hacking computers and phones and intercepting, you know, trying to break encryption and all that stuff. It's all about the tech.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Covering things that we think is important. And now the industry, security industry is all compartmentalized and specialized and kind of too clean, which is another problem. You don't have to make all these talk about that.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, so I think it is. I think it'd be sort of harder to replicate now. So one of their strengths was that their people were interested in hardware hacking and various parts of software hacking. And then sort of wound up being, how do you hack the media? How do you trick the media into...”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, so they've had to keep adapting. And, you know, one of their ways is they take retail politics and disinformation a lot more seriously. So, I mean, most of them are either out of, you know, many of them are out of security or running their own businesses in security, but some of them are working on human rights-y things.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And where does it go? Where did these? Because these groups sort of were the beginning of the internet. The beginning of Apple, they were all pirates, although they never really were pirates, but this ethos of good pirates or...”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Kevin still runs it. Kevin still runs it. I'd say two of the sort of like the cultural mainstays that go back to the early 90s and are more involved day to day. There's one whose name his hand was Omega. His real name I added in the book is Misha Quebec. He lives around here in the Bay Area. And another is Death Veggie. Luke Benfry, who's actually in London, does security work, so does Misha. So they're in security. It's funny because a lot of them are inside these companies, big or small, and nobody knows that they were part of this group. Because they were all anonymous”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Thought it should be doing. And so again, it was a different way to sort of tip the balance away from the oligopoly software giants and to the actual users commercial or individual. So they came up with all these different ways to do that. The Mudge really opened the eyes of government as to what cybersecurity claims were logical and which were farcical because they didn't know. They needed hackers to come in and help.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They are trying. So, some of them are. So at least two members of CDC held early fundraisers for Better when his running against Ted Cruz for Senate. And they're still involved. They're still helping. So among the famous names out of CDC, so Mudge, his real name is Peter Zetko, went to DARPA, ran cybersecurity grant making at DARPA, and is now head of security at Stripe. Which is an important big company these days and has lots of security issues. And then one of the guys from CDC and one of the guys from Loft together founded Vericode, which is now a billion dollar company, private company. And Vericode was super important because it allowed big software buyers to look at what the binaries in their code that they bought from the”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And so he was part of the early shaping of the guiding principles of the group, which again was like, don't do harm, have fun, you know, poke a finger in the eye of authority It was kind of like a high school underground paper in those days. Absolutely.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He was traipsing around the bulletin boards and he hit some of the bulletin boards that were run by CDC members, including Kevin's, which was Demon Roach Underground, because it had attitude and it was funny and it was also Texas. And he, almost most of them felt like misfits culturally where they were. And he felt that way in El Paso Beddo did. He didn't, you know. He didn't fit in and he was excited about technology. And so he found these guys. And he told me he wanted to be, he wasn't as smarter as cool and he wanted to be with the cool kids”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Instead of just writing some screed about how neo Nazis are bad, and a friend tape recorded the guy and let him hang himself with his own words. And, you know, to be concerned about neo-Nazis in Texas in the 1980s, he's kind of ahead of the curve.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, Better Work is in the earliest incarnation. So he was one of the first five or six members. He was in neighboring or semi-neighboring El Paso. His handle was psychedelic warlord. He was interested in music and in sort of being anti-establishment. And he's actually fairly thoughtful. He wrote one sort of like idealistic piece, again, as a 14, 15-year-old about what the world would be like without money and why it might be a good thing and how it would work. And I think the most interesting piece is that he did an interview with a neo-Nazi.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And maybe should have done earlier, but it wasn't in his remit. That wasn't what his job was supposed to be. Nobody was looking for organized propaganda.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For a good guy, right? Like, give them an opportunity to get paid for their work instead of saying criminalizing the entire class and driving them into the arms of the military or organized crime. Alex Damos also comes out at stake, Stamos famously winds up quitting Yahoo as CISO on principle or CSO actually, and then Facebook is the one that blows the whistle on Russian disinformation now at Stanford.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So in the private sector, the loft guys founded something, turned it into something called at stake, which was the security boutique, lots of ex-hackers who went inside Microsoft and big banks and other places and told them what they were doing wrong in terms of security. Hugely influential. Out of at stake comes people like Katie Masouris, sort of like the godmother of the bug bounty movement.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a bad record. So CDC does those two things, and then they invent something they call hacktivism. They coin the term hacktivism, which they define as security or hacking work in service of human rights. Other people have taken that mantle and done various things, some more defensible than others. It's an interesting, very interesting area. But that was just sort of one of their sort of areas of influence after the spotlight moved on from CDC, you know, the hacktivism thing continued with them and with others. And they had an influence on Tor, super important anonymity tool. And on the citizen lab at the University of Toronto, which tracks how governments use surveillance against tech, against their own citizens, a super important outfit. But they also did amazing things in government and in the private sector.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, and that really pissed them off. So the CDC decided to come back with a better program called BO2K, Back GorfS 2000, the following year. And this time it was open source so that anybody could modify it and get past antivirus if they wanted to. Anybody knew what they were doing. And it was much harder for Microsoft to ignore it. And so instead, Microsoft actually started getting serious about security.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's now huge. Tens of thousands of people go to Las Vegas in the middle of the summer because it's cheap. And members of the CDC had already given talks over the years and they sort of like they had served this reputation for theatrics. But they went crazy. So Kevin Wheeler, Grandmaster Rat was in a cowboy hat and rabbit fur chaps and gold jewelry and leading the crowd in this Colin response, I say dead, you say cow. Dead cow, dead, cow. And they threw out CDs with back orifice on it and basically said, go hack the heck out of everything. And that got them on TV. And once the TV people were asking Microsoft, well, what's your plan to deal with that, that really put the first serious pressure on them. So it wasn't that, you know, yes, there's going to be collateral damage. There was going to be more hacking, but Microsoft was actually going to have to address this. And so to their chagrin, Microsoft decided to address this by saying there's nothing to worry about. But if you really...”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the point was that bad guys already had these tools, and Microsoft wasn't doing anything about it. So they decided to be a media spectacle. And they went to DEF CON, which had succeeded Ho-Hokon as the place is the hack.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So basically, anybody who knew anything could take over your computer. And it was reckless. And so the call of the dead cow decided to do something about that. So one of their number, Josh Bookbinder, who used the handle sardistic, wrote a program. Yes. I wrote a program called Back Orifice, which was a play on Back Office.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But it was also like really rigorous strategic thinking, which was, I think, super impressive. So Microsoft Court certified Monopoly, you and I covered that back in the day, had thought, you know, maybe we should this internet thing is going to take off after all and we should bundle the protocol into Windows 95. So they did that, but they didn't put in any security.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a groupthink exercise, but they also support each other in different endeavors. And in the beginning, this like, hey, I want to start an underground music magazine, which one of them did, Matt Cowie, founded a magazine called Cool Beans, which took its name from one of Kevin Wheeler's favorite expressions. Others started businesses, security businesses, and they published research. But the reason that they got well known 20 years ago were the stunts they pulled to try and shame Microsoft into taking security more seriously. So many people found out about the Cult of the Dead Cow then. And that's when the performance art thing came in handy.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The right people to join. What were the There was one teen girl, Lady Carolyn, whose real name is Carrie Campbell, who was brought in by Betta O'Rourke. So, I don't know what your criteria are for a presidential candidate, but I find it interesting that he integrated the most influential group of good guy hackers in the United States.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, I know. Abandon slaughterhouses in Texas. They're keen boys. They wanted people to join, but they also wanted to be exclusive. They wanted the right people to join. What were the criteria for being tapped? And by the way, go to Teen Boys. No girls.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's not a cult. No, I know. They just wanted to sound a little sinister. It's actually named after a slaughterhouse, an abandoned slaughterhouse in Texas. You know, you couldn't, you know, they tried hard to have like a little bit of edge because they're keen boys with one exception. So yeah, they wanted to sound a little sinister or nobody would want to check them out. You know, savvy marketing, which is one of the reasons that this is going to be.”
2019-08-21 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: "Cult of the Dead Cow" author Joe Menn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT