YouSaid · the spoken record

John Khoury

lines on the record: 75
first: 2025-12-01
most recent: 2025-12-01
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“I grew up in Fredericton, Canada. I now live in New York City. That wasn't on the bingo card. I thought I was going to do real estate private equity. I apparently run a hedge fund in an ETF now. The only thing that's gone, as I expected, is I married a Canadian, but I met her in New York and married her in New York. Very little, I would say, went the way I expected when I was growing up.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So my brothers had paperwork. We all worked when we were very young. That was just something that happened in my family. And my older brothers had paper roots. And I was young and I wanted to be a part of it. My first job was delivering papers on their roots for them. What I learned from it was the power of operating leverage. When I went to get my own paper route, I realized that for every dollar I was making, my brothers were keeping a dollar, which I respected. I didn't resent, but it taught me the benefits of operating leverage”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With three young kids and a hedge fund to run, free time is fairly limited. We play basketball as a firm every Wednesday morning at 7 a.m. We've been doing that for the last decade, absent a short period in COVID. Outside of my family, it's the most fun I have every week. It's a great team building exercise. I grew up playing basketball. I love basketball. Your phone is put down for a period of time”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“are shifting for our business to be swimming against a current to with a current. The stocks are cheap, the credit markets are friendly to real estate. That 90% of the capital that exists thinks real estate in the public market is cheap. The output of that is in the last short period of time, we've seen six public processes for sales of real estate companies to the private market, all of which seem to be happening at large premiums. If we're right, earnings are about to inflect. That's generally a pretty good cocktail. I'm excited to stop talking about it and watching it happen.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Talking to somebody who's investing in the only GIC sector in the SP that's still materially down since 22, the GIC and REITs is down almost 20%, while the S&P is up 40%. We've now, since the beginning of 22, underperformed the S&P by 60%. I believe there's no other GIC that's even negative anymore. What do I look forward to in the next two years? Not swimming against a current. We've done well. We've generated more alpha in the last three years than we have in the history of the fund. So we're proud of what we've done in this difficult environment. Real estate is cheap and it's great risk, but it's not loved. We're not as popular as we once were. Coming through this, looking into the next couple of years, I'm excited about fundamentals inflecting for some health departments. Fundamentals inflecting for industrial, the characteristics that exist right now in publicly traded real estate in real time.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Much easier than I thought it would be. Anthony Famigati, our CFO, took the lead on that, and there's some great advisors out there who can help you walk through it, making sure that the process for each product is set out in stone prior to trades being made, outsourcing a lot of that. So the trades on the ETF don't even happen on our desk. So there's a lot of things that we needed to put in place to make sure that it was run correctly”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Long real estate exposure, it has all of the characteristics that I think the investment community will like. We are one of the first hedge funds to launch an actively managed ETF. It'll take some time. Those characteristics speak really well for themselves. And over time, I'm optimistic with what this can do.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We have an amazing team. We have a great process. We have our asymmetry ranker already. We cut out the illiquid stuff or the stuff that needs hedges that exists in the hedge fund. And we keep it only to the high quality companies. We think there's a huge space in the market for this. It's a product that is for now without competition. You can go buy the VNQ, which is the passive index. They've got only 30% of the companies in the VNQ that we deem to be high quality companies. There's another half of the companies in our ETF, Investable Universe, that aren't even in the VN built-in, for example, isn't in the VNQ. But you can get Park. It's not going to grow earnings, but we'll take the one that's compounding 15% a year on ours. It's a really interesting product. We're really excited about it. The return on invested time for the firm makes a lot of sense for those who want.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We did was we said, Look, we're going to create a product before seeing if it's a good business. I want to create what I would deem to be the most shareholder friendly or investor friendly way to gain access to long exposure. Let's do that and then let's figure out if there's a business. Then we said, we think there's an interesting business here. What we've done is we've taken the data that we have over the last 15 years of analyzing these companies. And we've said there are 80 high quality real estate companies. These are secular winners, compounders like Hilton. That will be the investable universe for the ETF. From an active perspective, we are going to own the 20 to 25 cheapest of those companies at any given point in time. The beauty of this for the firm, we do all of this all day, every day anyway, unlike launching a private business.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Real estate the power to compound that way is incredibly powerful. As a firm who has a 15-year track record of generating alpha in the space, we should do that on the long side just as well as we've done it on the long short side. And these companies are generally under to unleavered companies. So the risk associated with them overholding.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I sit across from you and I say I have a product, and this product can do the following things. It can give you daily liquidity at net asset value, not at a premium, not at a discount, and not liquidity only when you don't want it. If the public markets are open, you can come in and out at net asset value. Transparency. Every single dollar that you're invested in this actively managed long-pond ETF, you can see where that dollar is. If we make a trade on a Monday, you see where that money went on a Monday. We're not marking that book. Bloomberg is marking that book, which is something that's valued amongst real estate private equity investors. The fees are very fair. It's a 1% flat fee. There's an incredible benefit from a tax perspective if run properly, the underlying investor is not taxed until they sell the ETF for those who want long-term exposure to.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Actively managed ETF. This is a space that is incredibly interesting. These structures incredibly interesting. Our view is that institutional investors will adopt actively managed ETFs. We backed up a little while ago and we said half of every potential investor meeting I've had in the last 15 years ends with, will you do a long-only fund? And for all the reasons I stated, I didn't want to put a lot of my own money into it because I like what the hedge fund does for a living, we generally said no. Publicly traded high quality real estate is so cheap today that calculus has started to change. And the understanding of the benefits of the ETF structure put us in a position to have a great product for those who want to belong real estate. If you've chosen that you want exposure to real estate and you've got a pie of capital,”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A much different skill set than it looks like from the outside, you say, well, if you can buy an apartment reit, you should be able to buy an apartment asset and generate a great IRR. I don't think I can look investors in the eye and say because we've run a hedge fund focused on real estate securities for 15 years and I worked at DLJ for one year, that I'm going to go make great returns for you. There are talented people who do that. It's a different skill set. The opportunity cost is high. The return on invested time is low. I have a couple of things that are important to me in running this business, which is why we've never launched another product until recently is if I'm not going to be the largest or amongst the largest investors in a product that we're doing, I don't want to do it for the opportunity set I see in the public markets today, I don't want to put my money in the private market because I think the public's so much cheaper, so I'm not going to ask other people to do that. But we are doing something new, which we're really excited about. And we've launched an”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Long time you've run just a hedge fund, 10% of the assets are in the public markets, 90% in the private markets. Have you thought about whether to participate in where you originally thought you were going to take your career into the private real estate area?”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“we use it in the table stakes form. There's a lot of information that we can slice and dice in a way that we were not doing two years ago. It can get to a lot of the data that you're referencing, what that data means in a lot of ways that we hadn't looked at it before it's necessary to remain competitive.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Order, Mrs. Guide Downs. Today the company trades at, we believe around 12 times free cash flow. Its competitor Americold, we believe trades a couple turns lower than that. We think good longer-term businesses that are probably trading at 50 cents in the dollar to replacement costs today. That's one where we believe with duration, you're going to be paid to take some risk that is an interesting place for those with duration.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That came public a little over a year ago at high 70s a share, quickly went to close to $90 a share. Today it's at $35 a share. These are just numbers. It's nothing to do with valuation. There's a handful of things that have happened in that space. Like other real estate spaces that have great fundamentals, they got a lot of supply. They've been digesting that. There are customers who are the distributors of food throughout the country got a lot better at running their businesses through COVID. So occupancy tick down a little bit. Sadly, people are realizing there's more economic sensitivity to food consumption than the general investment community appreciated. That trifecta has led to the reason why this company has gone from 90 to 35 is quarter after quarter.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Manufactured housing, Sam Zeller created a manufactured housing company called Equity Lifestyles. This is a phenomenal business. This is a business that's grown earnings in 99, 2000, 2001, 2007, 2008. You name the year its grown earnings. And their business is simple, but incredibly safe. They own the land underneath manufactured homes. They don't actually own the homes. It's an incredibly stable stream of cash flow. It's a cashflow that can grow. They have high quality, many times age-restricted communities where you're able to push those rents because they are such an affordable alternative. Those kinds of high quality companies have gotten interesting in the public markets. We're spending a lot of time on the cold storage space, which has been a really interesting space. There's a public company now called Lineage, which was a private DART.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's creating opportunities in stocks. There's a real discrepancy right now in how hotels are performing based upon what chain scale or rev par level they're at.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Real estate and generated 30% of their income from management and franchise. Today it's 80% management franchise and 20% owned and leased. That evolution oftentimes leads to interesting opportunities to buy something that looks like an asset-laden business when you're looking out two to three years and seeing that 70 go to 80 go to 90 in M&F in the compound earnings in conjunction with the warranted multiple expansion that we think will come. We think it's a really interesting space. As a specialist, it's one of the spaces that we like participating in. Like everything else, the underlying fundamentals in the hotel business today are noteworthy. The super high end, there's ostensibly no price that is too high of a price. In the low end, we're seeing negative revar that you typically don't see outside of real recession.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“to happen is not going away. It's a separation of cash flows and a development of an amazing business by taking the assets out of an asset intensive business. One of the things that we frequently do is buying the companies that are in the process of going from asset heavy to asset light hype when they came public.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We like hotels. What we really like about hotels is we feel the opportunity created in many of these management and franchise companies. If you look at the difference between expressing a view on hotels between a management and franchise business and a REIT, Blackstone orchestrated the separation of Hilton and Park hotels. Park hotels became the RET. They owned all the real estate. Hilton became a fully managed franchise business in 2017. Interestingly, both of those companies did $2.19 in free cash flow in 2017. This year, Hilton is going to do over $9 in free cash flow. Park hotels is going to do less than the $219 they did in 2017. Over that time period, Hilton has been a four bagger. Park is down 30%. Okay, go back in time and buy Hilton, but there's a lot of there because what happened for that...”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That trade is over. There was a period of time pre-COVID where there was a belief that the physical retail experience was unnecessary. I'm exaggerating a little bit, but multiples compressed massively from all companies. Today, Simon Property Group is one of the better performing REACHs this year. They've called their portfolio. Retailers have figured out that they can't do everything online. They need an omnichannel experience. Well, we don't have a lot of exposure in retail today simply because we think there are better alternatives elsewhere. The idea that we don't need physical retail in America or that multiples for these assets need to compress meaningfully. A lot of closed. Nothing was developed. The combination of those two has led to a normalization that it's a much healthier market.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Quietly, which is a really important metric that people don't talk a whole lot about, rent to income in the Sunbelt has been going lower and lower and lower every year. So once you get back to equilibrium, we're of the view that it's not going to be, oh, we're back at equilibrium, we're going to grow a little bit. Your back at equilibrium in the case of many of these markets, a healthy rent-to-income is about 22%. In these publics, you're down to about 19%. Not only are you going to get the normal growth, but you're going to get this 19 to 22 catch-up. You're going to put operating financial leverage on top of that. We think the dynamics of both what's happening in the oversupply of multi and the expensive nature of single family is going to potentially lead to some significant rental increases once supply and demand normalizes for apartments.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Machine, I'm still paid to run my machine, generate cash flow, shrink my float, and maybe I generate less cash flow, but cash flow is better than none. We'll see how long they can do that as rates have come down recently. There's been very little elasticity of demand. The consumer is stretched. The low-end consumer, low-end homes are not in a place where they're transacting in a way where there's any element we believe of health. Certainly there's some markets, but it's difficult. I don't believe that means every home builder is uninvestable. Valuation matters, business model matters, balance sheet matters. For apartments, that problem in housing is a good thing for you. If it's really expensive to leave an apartment building, then your people are going to leave an apartment building. If there's been rent growth back to that whole supply thing, rents have been flat or down in many of these markets for these sunbelt department reits, but incomes are growing.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“As Dicey as ever, we have a housing problem that I think is leading to political clau comes that are going to lead to hopefully somebody finding a way to deal with this housing problem. But single family homes in America are too expensive for Americans. Full stop. The home builders have done better than many expected them, including us in some instances, to do in this environment because they've leaned heavily on these rate buy downs. They've gone to consumers and said, if you want to buy an existing home, which by the way, nobody wants to sell because they have 3% mortgages and the mortgage rates are at seven. So you have this frozen existing home market. But if you could find someone to sell, you've got to get a 7%, 7.5% mortgage depending on what time frame we're talking about. The home builders will say, I'll buy down your mortgage to a 5% mortgage. It might impact my margin by four or five hundred basis points if I'm an ROE.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Highly unlikely to be super good. I can understand why in some markets it's good now with AI tenants taking space, that space that AI tenants are taking will be dwarfed by the magnitude of vacancy that they create over time. We'll see. We don't really have exposure today in the long side. In terms of garden variety offices, we believe it's a dicey space.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Go. What you're seeing is the best, most profitable companies, the expense of office is de minimis and people want their employees back and they want them to have a great experience. They're willing to pay a lot of money for the best. You're seeing that play itself out. The less than the best stuff remains dicey. Depends on location, depends on market. The office business, it's never been a great business. It's a hugely capital intensive business. 25, 30% of the income from an office building is going into repairs, maintenance, capital expenditures on a recurring basis. And when you think of a self-storage facility, that number is the minimus. You have one person working there and you paint the little walls every now and then. It's not a great generator of free cash flow over cycle relative to other asset classes. That's where the state of the world is today, much better than it was. You have to really think about what the impact of AI is going to be on office.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Been a fun one to watch. Yes, in the depths of COVID, we were never going to use it. That has certainly reversed itself pretty meaningfully, not 100%, but that has led to a lot of these markets that were left for dead coming back viciously. The supply and demand for space in New York City is excellent. San Francisco is bouncing back in a way very few thought it would as recently as 12 months ago. This all offices left for dead today seems highly unlikely and the private markets and the public markets quickly got back to a point where they're willing to ascribe capital at lower cap rates than people would have expected a couple of years ago. The supply and demand for space is much better, which led to the supply and demand for capital to be much more fluid. One still has to differentiate between A and not A office buildings. The best stuff is where you're really seeing capital go and value.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We don't know if the inflection is starting next Friday or a year from now or two quarters from now, which makes it, if you're short-term focus very difficult to time that. But if you have a reasonable holding period, the IRR is available in the public market for this high quality secularly winning real estate asset classes is exceptional.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A half to seven percent implied cap rates, while the private market is close to five, five and a quarter, in 25, 30 percent discounts in that asset value, companies like this with modestly levered balance sheets, they don't trade at those levels in a sustained period outside of the GFC. This is unique pricing stuff. What's interesting to us is when you rewind 26 minus three is 23. And in 23, we stop building stuff. So the output of that is in these secularly winning real estate asset classes, some belt departments, industrial and self-storage, that supply starts or down depending on market subsector, 60, 70%. We think you're not only buying incredibly cheap securities here, or they're very cheap in the public markets, but you're at a point where the inflections on the horizon, the issue for many market participants is”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That was very logical and would have happened anyway, we now had to deal with the fact that we were getting the deliveries of all of these assets that were started in 2021 and in 22 when money was free. Real estate deliveries are never reflective of current capital markets. They're reflective of capital markets from three years ago in industrial in apartments, especially the Sunbelt and in self-storage, while you were losing multiple, you couldn't grow earnings. There was always someone putting a new one up across the street. Now you combine that with our view that the public markets has become much more short-term oriented. If every participant is looking at one quarter and this quarter is going to be bad, then it creates an interesting dynamic. And the Sunbelt Apartment REACH, which in aggregate are the largest exposure of the fund today, we're buying these companies at $600.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And 22, we know what happened. Rates went from zero to five. Multiples expanded. And it was pretty painful in real estate. If you entered a changing cap rate environment at a four cap and you went to a six cap and you had no leverage at all, your value went down by 33%. That was a multiple repricing for the industry began in 22. Now interestingly, what the best industries had was a second problem that was relatively unique to the highest quality secularly winning asset classes was they now had a supply problem that we had to digest for the next three years. We had a supply problem because everybody wants to build the best type of real estate when money's free and cap rates are going lower and incomes are always going higher. It's very easy to pencil development. The problem in overall real estate is well we had a multiple repriced”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“value available today to the highest quality secularly winning real estate subsectors. Apartments, industrial, and self-storage, they all suffer from a similar problem. It all rests in pre-22. Real estate went one way for a very long period of time coming out of the GFC. Rates went lower. Cap rates went lower with it. We came through COVID. A lot of these asset classes really overearned during that time period. Well, interest rates basically went to zero. You had this confluence of macro factors that led high quality public and private real estate to trade at cap rates that would have been real head scratchers 10 years ago. They were there for logical reasons. Money was free. They traded at spreads and they had some growth.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They're one place in real estate where the better opportunities are in the private. There are two large data center companies. Both of them have large existing footprints. The most exciting thing about data centers today is the development economics. You don't really get that as a percentage of enterprise value that you're buying very meaningfully in the public. That's something that we're doing very little of. The jury is out on what terminal value of these assets will be. I understand why there's a lot of capital going to them. And the math is very powerful. There will be a lot of these built. There will be people who want to sell them. What cap rate or what multiple a ten-year-old data center with a five-year remaining lease term will be will be an interesting outcome, not something we think a lot about because we don't have a lot of that exposure. In the public, the most interesting thing is the...”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It used to be that one analyst or two analysts could cover Reits, the four major food groups covered two-thirds of the space, and they were correlated and there was no secular. Today, that's not the case. Whatever you know about office is completely irrelevant when it comes to what's happening in the industrial space or the retail space. We have a coverage model. Each analyst is responsible for 40 to 50 securities. Those all flow up to that asymmetry rancor. The ability to cover more than that amount of stocks is a thing of the past.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Dissimilar, the volatility is both ways. The volatility is to the end to the down. That can create opportunities for us on both sides of the book, broadly for both sides of the book, reads disconnect from intrinsic value in a wider way than they used to. If a read traded 125% of NAV, that was Wall Street Journal News. Today it's the norm. While value matters to us, we need to be respectful of the disconnects that can exist longer or wider than they have historically.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Much smaller. We all know that when a short goes against you, it gets bigger, not smaller in today's world. We're learning shorts can do things from a volatility perspective that was less common or completely uncommon pre GameStop. We have the benefit of dealing in REITs. We're not dealing with companies that are generally doing those kinds of things. For us, a short being a 3% position is a big position for us.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Really love something and we think it's incredibly downside protected in the passage of time works in our favor and we're comfortable in the case of an apartment read that there isn't this secular boogeyman living around the corner. We still have the belief that buying a lot of something you love is a good way to allocate capital.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I like to run concentrated. One of the nice things about real estate is you can oftentimes know very well the risk you're taking. If you're looking at an apartment reit and you can see every single asset they own, you can see every single secured and unsecured obligation that they have, you can see the incentives of the management team. You can understand the private market value. You might lose money in that stock, but you can quantify the risk. You can really understand through hard work and disclosure the risk that you're taking. There are times when high quality real estate with solid balance sheets and great management teams for short-term reasons get absolutely dislocated. And my view is that's not supposed to be a 5% position. We run with 12% positions. We don't do it all the time. It's reserved for special situations.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Bought a lot of Hyatt. Hyatt's an amazing company. It's a company I know very well that got massively repriced to a level that we felt even if we went through a recession you were going to make a lot of money. We didn't know for sure you weren't going to go through a recession. There's a lot of unknowns happening around Liberation Day. It's not uncommon for us to say, okay, what are the lowest quality hotel REITs that are not going to grow the same way Hyatt is going to grow where the delta in performance between those two companies will be large enough to warrant the gross exposure, but where the risk can be mitigated by having this low basis underperforming short on the other side of something we love?”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Funny, people often say it's hard to short reads because they pay dividends. If you go back to who the market participants are today, if you've got a significant amount of passive capital, which the market now does, and a passive capital doesn't really care about anything, oftentimes securities can trade at levels that are higher than they otherwise would be because they're paying dividends that they can't afford or have low integrity or have risk of being cut. The short book breaks into two categories. There are the alpha-driven shorts. These are shorts that on their own were expecting to make a lot of money when the world sees what we see over some reasonable period of time. We're much more catalysted on the short side than we are necessarily on the long side. Another portion of the short book are the means to be longer something on the longbook in the depths of liberation day.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Momentum, value are really the two big ones real estate oftentimes being more value than momentum, which is not always a great thing in today's world. Those are the two that present themselves the most. Defensive certainly.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Very high on the defensive factor. And when you're long a lot of cyclical and short a lot of defensive in 4Q18 happens, you learn you have to respect factors. And the asymmetry ranker doesn't think about those kinds of things.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's meaningfully different, and it can be different for a whole host of reasons. One is portfolio construction and risk management. I've had the indignity of having had this and experiences what you get when you don't get what you want. In 15 years of running a hedge fund, every year does not go exactly as you want it. Very few do. One of the big things that differentiates between with the asymmetry ranker spits out and what the portfolio looks at is the asymmetry ranker doesn't care about factors. It doesn't care about correlations. It doesn't care about any of that stuff. We're not a factor neutral fund, but we respect factors. We have lived in environments where we owned too much of a cyclical factor. All individual securities that turned out to be asymmetric, that generated their IRR over a reasonable period of time, but were very similar from a factor perspective. And on the short side, short, many securities that were challenged had credit issues, had problems, but were all”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you get it as just a quantitative exercise and take your asymmetric ranking and said, hey, that's a portfolio we could buy quantitatively, how different is what you end up putting in your portfolio from just what the numbers would tell you?”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's episodic in Liberation Day. We're moving a lot of capital really quickly. Cyclical security's got hammered across the board. Good and bad ones. Our experience is often, they all go down at a similar level in those periods of time. So you get a chance to buy the really good ones at great prices. In the case of Liberation Day, a lot of what we did was sell stocks that were down a little to buy stocks that were down a lot. That had these compounding characteristics like Hyatt. Other times when the world's a lot less volatile, the turnover can be de minimis. We can go weeks without doing much. It tends to be fairly episodic where we may do very little or we may be very patient oftentimes when one opportunity presents itself, it's in an environment where many present themselves.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exchange, and it's less good than we thought doesn't mean we're going to own it for two years, but the willingness to own it for two years is really what differentiates how we're allocating capital in those volatile periods of time.”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With a desire to allocate with duration. We're doing three management meetings a day on average in our process. The models are being run, whether we own a company or not. That's all being done so that we're ready to allocate when an opportunity presents itself. Internally, we often say we want to be allocating capital while the next guy is sharpening his pencil. But we're not allocating it because we think it's going to go up tomorrow. We're taking advantage of the ability to allocate quickly in periods of volatility, but for duration. We want to take advantage of short-term market reactions in order to allocate capital to two-year IRR investments that are asymmetric. It doesn't always lead to a two-year hold period. It's a paradigm of how we allocate. If we allocate to something and that stock goes up or we get it wrong and the fact”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It did a change in his security in the public markets to the change in that price or a disconnect to intrinsic value? Was it of a magnitude enough that there is something within the portfolio that no longer meets that same risk return or asymmetry? A lot of times that can happen pretty quickly. We think of our process as”
2025-12-01 · Capital Allocators · John Khoury – Asymmetry and Opportunity in Public Real Estate at Long Pond (EP.474) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source