YouSaid · the spoken record

John Mack

lines on the record: 81
first: 2023-01-06
most recent: 2023-01-06
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Well, what we saw in Merrill Lynch, which traditionally had been a pure retail firm, because of their huge network, number one, they had better information, not only from what's going on in the retail market, but also from institutions. You know, if you were in Des Moines, Iowa and you knew the local president of the first bank of Iowa, you got better information. And if they were going to buy treasury securities or municipal, you got that order. So we saw that we were getting limited information. And then Sears, who had bought Dean Witter, I think it was Ed Brennan and Phil Purcell had been a management consultant, I think for McKenzie, but not sure of that. And he convinced Ed Brennan that, you know, if you really are going to be in retail, you have Sears stores everywhere, every city of a...”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was. I know the UK banks, Hong Kong Bank had a UK ownership, but we were the first bank. But, you know, I'm sure JP Morgan had some kind of outlet there, but more for banking and taking deposits and doing traditional banking business. But from a trading point of view, securities business, thanks to Ed Lim, who, as I said, worked at the UN, said, you know, China really needs capital markets, it needs investment banking business. And with his help, we started a small investment bank there, which continued to grow.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He said, I can't do that. I said, What do you mean you can't do that? He said, In New York, you can't smoke inside. I said to my office, you can do anything you want, light them up. And he smoked luckies. Can you imagine smoking luckies? He smoked luckies. He lit them up. We got the deal. No filter.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We're there for about an hour and a half. We're making zero progress. We're not getting anywhere. And I'd been in Europe with him and talked to him over there. We were making progress there. Now here he is in New York. And it's like a big heavy stone on him. And I look at him and I finally figure out he's a chain smoker. I said, Shishan, light em up.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it took a lot of time, but the Chinese wanted to create their own capital markets. They wanted to be independent. And they wanted the ability to go around the world and raise money, as we do in any American investment bank. And I tell you one of the things that really touched me, we're talking about China, but let's say China communists. We're talking about die-hard communists. Who was running the central bank at the time, and then he was given the responsibility by Ju Ranji to build a securities business. And I'm working with him to do this joint venture, and he flies over to New York. And we're sitting in my office on whatever floor at Morgan Stanley.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's true. I mean, number one, I love the business. I mean, to go to China and build the relationships we built in China or go to Europe, it didn't make any difference where I went. I loved the business. And, you know, China was just opening up. And one of the guys who used to be at the World Bank said, you know, John, what China really needs, I think it was Ed Lim. It needs an investment bank. So we formed a small investment bank owned mainly by the Chinese, but Morgan Stanley owned 30% of it. And we built a securities business with the Chinese in China. And Wan Shishan, who it was the vice premier, he was the gentleman I worked with.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, in some cases, we found that managers were not setting the right tone as far as being energetic and working with them. They were reluctant oftentimes to go out with salesmen and help them entertain with their clients or spend time with clients. So it really put more pressure on managers to be involved and not just sit in an office or on a training desk at the far end and just take advantage of people working hard, but they're not involved. So it got them more involved. And it also got us to eliminate some of the managers. When you saw these 360 reviews and some of the data, and then you would dive into it and find out they're right. We're not going to have people like that at this firm, so not a lot of reduction in headcounts, but a few people we asked to leave.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So he said, What you should do is set up an independent group of people, let them make a presentation to you of the talent that should be promoted. And, you know, if you have a strong objection, you can say that. But by and large, you should accept what they put in front of you. So that's exactly what they did. They took me picking who's going to be promoted. And there was a promotion committee and also a compensation committee. And then they would come to me and make recommendations. And so you didn't favor one person. You had somewhere between four and eight people on these committees. And when they brought it to me, unless I had something very specific that I'd say, well, let me tell you why I disagree. I accepted their recommendation. And that move really changed the culture of the division. And it came into, you don't have to be Max Friend or anyone else. It's about being professional, direct, and honest. And your peers would do the evaluation.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. That's right. And if they're not your friend, they don't make it. And he said, that may not be reality, but that's what they all believe.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm talking to this guy on the plane, and I said, What do you do? He said, I'm a professor at BYU, and I'm coming back to talk to AT&T and their management group about, you know, managing people and evaluations, et cetera. And I said, well, look, I'd like you to come in and see me when you have time. I'd like to talk to you. So Tom comes in, and by the way, now Tom is a professor at Harvard University. So Tom comes in and he interviews my senior group. And he comes in, he says, Well, here's what people think to get ahead at this division, they have to be your friends.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think by and large, people who come into the business are competitive. They want to achieve and they want to do well. What I was trying to do was to take all of this, I guess, courage is the wrong word, this aggressiveness, this ability to build a business. And how do you make it into a one firm versus the guys in San Francisco, they get an order, don't share it with New York. If we do it, we'll get more of a commission. So what I was trying to do when I took over the fixed income division is to create a one firm entity. I call it the one firm firm. And I brought in a guy named Tom DeLong, who I met on an airplane. So Christie and I were out in Utah. We were looking at buying a house because we started picking up skin. And by the way, I'm a terrible skier.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“had a little machine that would do interest rates for you. You'd put in a price and it would give you what the yield is. But now you go into Morgan Stanley, you go into JP Morgan or Gold makes no difference. Every desk has a box with data and information. And if you go back when I got into business in the early, early 70s, matter of fact, in the late 60s, that didn't exist. I mean, people would go out for lunch and take a couple hours. You didn't miss anything. Today, you don't leave your desk.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Allowed people to see markets. And here we are at Bloomberg. They were looking at machines. They could tell you what was going on in Hong Kong or what was going on in Europe. So the markets became 24-7. And as a result, you had to staff, in my case a fixed income division, you needed people around the world to be able to satisfy clients who are investors and at the same time satisfy clients who are raising money through Morgan Stanley. So if AT&T was doing a big bond deal, we wanted to make sure that the Japanese, the Chinese, and just go around the world, the Middle East, London, then back to New York, that all of our clients got a chance to see and talk to a salesman who had information about the transaction we were doing for AT&T. So globalization was the big change. Then add to that, and here we are at Bloomberg, technology. You know, when I got into business, there was no technology.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think the biggest change is the markets became so big and global that Wall Street had to change. So if you go back to when I started the business, basically your client base was here in the United States. But over time, as globalization took place, your clients would be all over the world. And people were more and more focused on what are the maximum returns we can make in investing. And it got to be a 24 hours a day trading, whether you're in China or Japan or Europe or US. So you had to be on your game and you also had to be available to do business at night. And our traders oftentimes would stay up all night to satisfy inquiries coming in from China or be there early in the morning for London. So globalization was the big change. And then technology added to it. Technology...”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're gone. There's no debate, no discussion. So we really focused on trying to get close to our clients, give them what they needed, introduce them to other clients that also had similar asset management responsibilities. And Morgan Stanley at the time was really growing from a pure investment bank that covered AT&T, IBM, Southern Cal, you name it they had it, the government of Japan. And we really worked at imbuing that culture of first class business and a first class way into the Morgan Stanley sales and trading business.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Wipe everything onto the floor. And thank God for Dick Fisher. I mean, he said, look, John, you got the biggest gun in the firm in that division. Your job is never use your gun. So, I learned a lot from him and I calmed things down. I wasn't as aggressive, I wasn't as pushy, but I was still demanding. And look, it's a great business with great opportunities. But you got to pay attention. You got to pay attention to the people around you, you got to pay attention to your clients. And this idea of, especially at Morgan Stanley, the surest way to be fired at Morgan Stanley is the word got back, you've got a client laid somewhere.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it was very different, and I learned very quickly, thank God, for Dick Fisher, that you have to be more balanced and not as I don't know if the word is aggressive, ruthless, uncouth, all of those words. We used to sit in clusters of four salespeople together. And we probably had five clusters. And one of my rules were that the desk can never be empty. You always need one person there If no one's there and the foe rings, no one's picking it up. Occasionally, you know, no one was there. And I'd walk in and be really pissed off about it and reach over and I would just clean the desk off.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's the environment we're in. And I'll tell you, I mean, I think business is personal. And we got to know the people at Mellon Bank, whether it was Sally Yeh's daughter who was in med school or George Policek who was going back over to Europe for a while. We really worked at getting to know people and building trust. And at the end of the day, it's all about trust and it's all about delivering what you say you're going to do. And with the help of a lot of people, that's what we did. And of course, my partner in all this was Christy Mackin. As I said earlier, my clients say, look, John, we really don't care about you. Send Christia out.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The pension funds for the state of Pennsylvania, both in teachers and the employees. And I just kept digging away, working hard at it. And over time, I became their number one dealer they dealt with. And George Policek, who came over from the Ukraine after the Russians back then, took over in World War II, was running it. He had been at Sunlife in Canada. And I got along with him well, and I did a lot of business with the Mellon Bank to the point I became their number one broker dealer. And Polichk, who loved martinis, walked on to the Solomon floor and screamed out to Kugler, how does it feel to be number two?”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A big account, it was huge, but he was tough as nails. And you learn very quickly that you better be on your toes when you dealt with Dick. And I got to know him. He was a great mentor, taught me a lot about the business. And I spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh, even to the point that my wife and I would go out. I mean, I remember going out to Pittsburgh with these huge funds. It was probably the largest accountant in the country, the Mellon Bank at the time. And a guy named Jackie Kugler at Solomon Brothers, and Solomon was the dominant player in the bond market. They were the number one broker, banker.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You got it. And there was a gentleman named Dick Vanskoy at the Mellon Bank. Who managed and advised the state employees of Pennsylvania teachers and retirement funds?”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it was. But, you know, we built it over the long period of time, and we all grew up over that period of time. And you learned that, number one, you had to be upfront. You had to focus on your clients. You couldn't get drunk at lunch, which occasionally we all got drunk at lunch and sometimes made a mistake. And you learn to focus on your client. And it became a very personal business. And you got to know who they were. You got to know their families. And I remember when I was at Smith Barney and then at FS Smithers, I was given the worst accounts because I went from trading to sales. I will dump all these accounts on John Mack.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, originally when I joined Smith Barney, I was going to go to Atlanta in the retail office and cover Florida and other southern states. And then I got to know a guy named George Wilder, who had been in the municipal bond of business, and a guy named John McDougall, who was a municipal bond trader. And they convinced me, you know, why don't you stay in New York? You're a great salesman, and you can sell and trade munis with us. And I like New York, and I like the business, and I like the investment world of large pension funds, money managers, and things like that. So we did a combination of things. We covered clients, and then we satisfied the desire of retail salesmen who wanted to buy Munis in New York State or in California or Florida. So that's how I got into the bond business.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All these different regulatory areas from around the world came up with a conclusion we need kind of an overall management system for risk and regulatory oversight. So if you took a big risk in China, Japan, or in Europe, you needed to roll that up so the U.S. regulator or the UK regulator could see what your overall risk was. I think that was a huge and very important move.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Correct Well, the markets were changing. They were global. And as they became global and you were competing around the world, it was clear that you needed to free up our securities business to be more active on a global basis. So we got rid of a lot of regulation. We got more oversight, but not regulatory control. I mean, clearly we reported to the SEC, New York Stock Exchange, et cetera. But it wasn't smothering. We were not used to it, but it was the right thing for New York Stock Exchange to do. There had to be more regulation. And, you know, as I said earlier, it's a global market, and you wanted to make sure that we represented New York Stock Exchange and really America the proper way. And it worked. And the UK was much stricter than we were. And in Germany, they were stricter than we were. And clearly the Japanese were stricter than we were. And over time,”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's correct. They closed on Wednesday to catch up on the paperwork, and all the firms, whether it was First Boston, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and Morgan Stanley at that time, didn't have a big secondary business, we had to clear up the back office. So you'd shut at noon and try to figure out, all right, these securities go to why and these securities go to Z.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All right, so I'm 21, 22 years old. I'm at Smith Barney. I'm a municipal trader. Then I go into the corporate buying a market and I hear about these crazy parties that Wall Street was throwing. And I only went to one and left. I mean, it was basically strippers and people getting drunk. And, you know, I came from a town of about 12,000 people in North Carolina, Baptist religion mainly. It was a new world for me, but it taught me a lot. You got to pay attention and you got to make sure that you don't get drunk at lunch and you got to make sure you tell the truth.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A client No one wants to drink alone. So if he's drinking or she's drinking, I'm drinking. I came back and I made a mistake. And thank God they didn't fire me. And over time, we eradicated that and fixed it. And then I learned to be very careful when you go out to lunch on Wall Street.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, not only you can, I did. We went down to Shea Yvonne. If you remember that years ago down to Wall Street, it was U.S. Trust was my client, a guy named Jimmy Dagan. And U.S. Trust was the advisor for the state employees of New York, which is a huge pension giant giant.”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And say, you know, Procter& Gamble or IBM, whoever it may be, she would say, guy, you got to talk to is John Mack. And I think I would see her in the cafeteria. And most students would ignore. I'd sit down and have a cup of coffee with her or have lunch with her. So that's how I got involved with the securities business. And then Smith Barney was in town, and they were going to open an office in Atlanta. And they ended up hiring me to go to their Atlanta office. So I come up to New York in 68, and I'm working at Smith Barney, and they decide because of the explosion of volume, the New York Stock Exchange stopped all new branches from opening. So I got a chance to go into the municipal bond department. That's what I did. I was a trader salesman, and I learned a lot about risk. And I also learned a lot about drinking at lunch”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Pretty simple. So I was on scholarship at Duke and athletic scholarship and cracked C5 in my neck. So my scholarship was only valid for four years and I needed one class to graduate. I had very little money. My father had passed away when I was in college. So I needed a job and I went down and knocked on the door at a company called First Securities of North Carolina. And a guy named Bill Bonner said, look, you know nothing about the business. I'll put you in the back office. And you can go to your one class every day ahead and they go on your lunch hour and come back and go to work. So it was me and nine women in the back office. And they had the old IBM computer punch cards. That's how long ago it was. So I got a sense and a feel for the business and I got to know a lady named Fannie Mitchell who ran job placement for Duke University. So when people would come down”
2023-01-06 · Masters in Business · John Mack on Life Lessons From Financial Crisis · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source