YouSaid · the spoken record

John Patrick Mullen

lines on the record: 42
first: 2025-03-28
most recent: 2025-03-28
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Yeah, I mean, I agree it's starting. Institutions are just like any self-motivated capitalist actor in that they just want more money. And so, you know, the reality is that everyone's interested in crypto because there's the opportunity in some corner of it, in some way to make more money.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I said it's a multi cycle thing, so actually the next proper bears win a lot of the real foundation elements of secondary market liquidity is going to start getting built up. So I think maybe five years, five years. I think the inflection point is starting.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With less basis risk in that you don't need to play the lead lag relationship of Bitcoin versus Solana and play that game. You can literally just buy a long data out of the money call leap that has 10 Delta and actually play that. And so I”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My view, and this is my personal view, this is not Bitwise's view, institutions for now really are focused on Bitcoin. They're focused on Bitcoin for all the reasons that we understand what it represents. It has a singular narrative as a store of value that's not very difficult to understand. Once you leave Bitcoin, the story on technology, the utility is kind of befuddled various motivations that make the conversation challenging. The thing that I feel, again, going back to the evolution of Bitcoin's financialization is that historically people really liked trading these altcoins like Ripple or Solana or Doge or whatever else because they gave you some levered beta exposure to Bitcoin and people thought it's a levered way to play the crypto price game. The reality is I actually think most institutions now will realize the power of Bitcoin options and get the same kind of thrill.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“More directly and natively, it's fine, but in the meantime, happy to have that association just by having good quality product on chain. That's really important because tokenization for the sake of tokenization, if you have a shitty asset, it's still a shitty asset. Yeah, we like to say the same thing for investment strategies just because you're putting the, if the dog doesn't like the food just because you're putting in a gold-plated bowl doesn't mean it's going to be good food. We only have two minutes left, so I'll keep these quick. Basically, all of you are building, right? You're all building in the space. And the question is, like, will the institutions come? That's kind of been answered for the Bitcoin ETFs, maybe even a little bit for the Ethereum ETFs tokenization. We're seeing it's a start, but I'm just curious, one, it's mostly institutions kind of dipping their toes in the water at this point. When do you think, well, one, are they going to fully jump in? And two, when do you think it's going to happen? I'm curious, like, Jeff, more for your point of view, like, these other altcoin ETFs and stuff, do you think there's going to be interest? And then from the rest, more so.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, exactly. It's an important thing, right? So for sure, we would want to work with these type of people. And obviously, when you're talking about a lot of these products coming on chain, you need to have something that is easily understood by people. And those big brands are easy to explain. And when we're talking and distributing some of these products to investors, they already are buying this stuff in the real world. They're already buying it from their private bank, particularly in the UE. They're already getting exposure to some of these products. But actually what tokenization offers is a little bit of a smorgas border or a buffet where now it's not just the private bank offering, but it's actually this private bank offering, this private bank offering, this private bank offering, and this private bank offering. So you can get everything under the sun, which is something that we've seen people are quite attracted to. So we've done a number of different tokenization products in private credit and money market funds that bring those big brand names to the table. And it's something that, again, down the line, if they want to do it.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You were very vigorously waiting to say something, JP. So go ahead. I think any RWA-focused project, particularly if you have a coin, would love to have a BlackRock or a KKR or Apollo as a partner. And we've seen that. There's companies that try to associate with those big players.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, there's going to be early movers to adopt a new technology, right, from asset managers, from banks, whatever. And then there's going to be late movers, which will be probably like four-fifths of the industry. I think it's great that there's asset managers who are excited about doing things on chain. I think it's great that there's banks that are excited about doing stuff on chain. It's still the reality at like 98% of those industries is not interested in doing stuff on chain yet. And so I think it's a great sign. I think we're at like the starting line or like chapter one and a half of what this looks like and what comes on chain and what are the products and who are the major players. All of this will evolve, but I don't think anything is competitive. I think it's shared signs of enjoyment and optimism.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So Jeff kind of mentioned the private credit stuff. I mean, KKR, Hamilton Lane, Apollo, all of these people are talking about doing tokenization things. I'm curious mainly from Robert JP to talk about, are you worried that they're going to come in and take out you guys as kind of incumbents in the space? Are you looking to partner with them? How do you view these behemoths from the TradFi world, including BlackRock, like coming over into the space and competing? So I mean specifically for you, like that deal you were talking about. I know the Biddle fund from BlackRock got some of that money as well. I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Robert.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, so in Europe we've had ETPs since, I think, 2013. First ETP listed in Stockholm, on the Nasdaq Stockholm exchange. So we've been like we tend to do in Europe sometimes. We are good at the early innovation and then we struggle to get AUM and scale and then the US comes in and does it 10 times better. So the European ETP market is much more kind of fragmented. There's a lot of smaller ETPs, including some interesting things. I mean, we launched something called the Bold Index, which is a Vol Control Bitcoin Gold Rebalanced Index that is a European ETP a few years ago. And so I would say that we've been early on in creating all those ways to invest in an ETF ETP-like product to get exposure to crypto. And then, yeah, it's been a year now that the US ETFs over a year.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh boy, I would love it. I mean, this is my dream of to organization in the future, folks like securitize are working towards the idea is that these private funds actually don't need to have a lack of secondary liquidity, right? Going back to the point, like these private credit hedge fund vehicles, these 3C7, 506B type funds, they're basically just investment structures. And it's to maybe accommodate the liquidity of the underlying assets, but it's most often to accommodate the business. And so if you can actually provide a world in which there's secondary market liquidity to these types of private funds, I think it's a game changer. The idea that you can invest in private equity funds, but you don't actually have to wait for 10 years because you know there are buyers who can look through the asset and pay for it and create some transparent secondary market is a liquidity transformation of an existing assets class that's never had it. And I think that is kind of the tokenization story that really does.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And actually, kind of take it to the next level. Like, what's more interesting than just a Bitcoin spot ETF? So one of the products we launched last week is actually the first of its kind. It's called the Bitcoin Corporation Standard ETF. And what it does, it does rule-based methodology where we go out and buy public equities that own 1,000 Bitcoin or more on their balance sheet. So this is a way to get exposure to, of course, crypto companies, but also companies like Block or Tesla or some global companies like MetaPlanet or a medical device company called Semler, and you actually can build a diversified basket of crypto adjacent companies with Bitcoin beta. Plus. So I think these are the kinds of things that institutions have some interest to explore that doesn't look like...”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Everyone knows instinctively, besides price, which we love, we want Bitcoin to go up. The other thing that people recognize is that volatility is extremely, extremely worthwhile, and that if you monetize the volatility, there's a premium there. And so the advent of Bitcoin ETF options last December was huge because this is really the moment now where we're going to see like structured products. And I do think institutions are interested in the idea of like, yes, I want Bitcoin exposure, but maybe I want to cut my tail to a loss, max loss of 20% by having a put. And also at the same time financing that by selling a call that's like 160% or something where they're like, I don't need to make more than 60% a year. Like it's possible institutions have these kinds of preferences. And so the things that we're focused on a bit wise is to think about imagining these structured product categories where we harness volatility and diversity in the wrapper we know, which is ETFs.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is a particular version of that, right? When he's coming to the market with a variety of instruments in the capital structure from convertibles to preferred equity that has a conversion right or preferred equity that actually has a perpetual cash dividend, like these are all a buffet of options for investors to be like, what kind of flavor of Bitcoin do you want today? Like here's four choices. And so in my opinion.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To put it really simply, as I've been able to engage with institutional investors, there's basically two things that they really care about in the context of crypto and what crypto and Bitcoin in particular represent. One is, is there a risk managed way to access it? And the second is, is there a more diversified way to access it that might also include some risk mitigation strategies? And so on the first point, it is true that institutions have different degrees of risk preference, right? Every financial institution has varying comfort level, and that's why we have things like securitization technology, tranching technology, and all of these things to create derivatives and overlays and ways people manage their programs. And so to me, it isn't surprising that someone might say, we like Bitcoin, but we actually need to access it in XYZ kind of way with these kinds of risk parameterization. And Michael Sailors micro strategy”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, legislative interpretation, I mean, with like 98% certainty that this actually goes through and passes about how all of this stuff should work. And actually the role of regulation decreases when we have modernized legislation. There's less to interpret. There's less to suppose. And so the environment is incredibly optimistic. I think, you know, Hopefully, we don't bounce back and forth between two different guardrails of hostility to crypto and extreme support of it over the next couple cycles, and we reach an equilibrium where there's very clear rules and everyone knows how they work, and everyone's happy with it. But we're definitely headed in a great direction right now where it seems like anything is possible. He is like one of the best”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“At a really high level, regulation is a layer on top of legislation. And I think in the US, we're seeing two things that have changed very quickly. One is the regulatory interpretation of what should happen given the legislation at hand has shifted radically as the Gensler SEC has become the Uyeda slash Atkins SEC and all the other regulatory bodies as well have shifted dramatically But that's a layer on top of legislation. I think what's really exciting is this year we're going to see stablecoin legislation. We're going to see market structure legislation we're going to see an actual codification of the rules in the US around crypto and the way it's supposed to be operating in a way that we haven't had ever. And regulation has existed to interpret a lack of rules basically going back to the 1930s and how that might apply to crypto. But we're about to have for the first time”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The underlying asset, right? So this is really exciting stuff that we're working on the UAE. I think it's probably the only major market that we're seeing this happen in. And obviously when you have one voice system, it helps that you can have a central government or sovereign nation that says, hey, this is the right way to do it. And things move a lot quicker in environments like that.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Little alpha. But anyway, what this actually unlocks is a number of interesting things, right? So when you have a wrapper, effectively you're actually just creating another layer of obfuscation between the on-chain asset and the real world asset. But when you're directly tokenizing title like we're doing, what it means is that if there's some sort of issue with that asset, whether it's in a DeFi primitive, a lending protocol or something like that, there's an actual enforcement capability in the real world, right? It's actually recognized by the government in the tokenized form. That's one of the biggest issues that we're seeing is like in order to have this two tracks going into one, you need to have the real world recognition of the token being the real world asset, right? And until you have intermediaries like a government agency or a regulator that says, hey, this is the real thing, that becomes a problem. So when you took a nice something, hold it in an SPV or a wrapper, you're not actually owning the real thing. The SPV owns the...”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Transaction that we're doing with them Of just actually tokenizing SPV A real estate asset. With them to tokenize the underlying title natively. Actually, to By land department, which is effectively the Dubai Land Registrar, the Dubai government. Came out and said that they're actually working to tokenize titles. Pretty exciting stuff They're doing it with us An announce”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“do not live on chain natively. So that's also some of the things we're looking at within the tokenization angle is the whole data application layer, which involves reading from the blockchain and offboarding that data through an API to people who need to consume it. It involves the whole data workflow and the whole data capabilities and then also the ability to enable the execution of smart contracts with data that needs to be accountable and accurate. And there's no rollback.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“world and for all of the tokenized securities we've mentioned there is today no native on-chain markets where price formation happens meaning that if you want to enable financial applications using those tokenized securities on chain you actually need to get the valuation data of those assets from not the blockchain and provide it on chain to enable financial applications so that's kind of the you know the world i think we are at the beginning of an inflection point obviously the first step is tokenizing assets the immediate next steps is to say now that those assets are tokenized what can we enable and that will be data hungry in the same way that Tratify today is data hungry right it's just a different network different platform different infrastructure but still requires calculation agent nav calcs option pricing and and all these prices”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The plumbing side powering terminals such as Bloomberg indeed. And then what I think, and it takes us back to tokenization, is that if you believe in an increasingly on-chain world, especially an on-chain world that enables capital markets application, you are going to be in a world where the execution of financial contract will be much more disintermediated. That's the whole point, right? Making kind of the whole operational workflow more efficient and more disintermediated. But thereby, it means that the data that you input into the smart contract representing your financial contract is increasingly critical because there's no more failovers. You're not going to have middle office calling you and say, oh, I disagree with that margin call or that liquidation or coupon payment or whatever. It's just the whole workflow is automated within the contract and thereby data becomes even more critical in a tokenized way.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely. So for me, when it comes to crypto data, there's going to be two phases and maybe we just move back away from tokenization back into crypto. The first phase of kind of institutions looking at crypto was to say this is a new investable asset class. And so we need market data like we do for any traditional asset class. So that was the and still is kind of the main product that we offer is literally market data, APIs and plumbing to enable access to market data on crypto as an investable asset class and that is like order books and individual tick trades and everything that happens across every market including DEXs and lending and boring protocol. All the financial market information that is kind of slightly more commoditized but somebody needs to do it and somebody needs to do it well and we power about a couple hundred clients globally with those market data feeds. That's part one and we are not doing any kind of front-end stuff so we power we're on the”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I actually will because the other thing that I pay attention very closely is SuperSafe, by the way. This is full fact, I would admit it, there are things that also SuperSafe is doing where they're bringing investable opportunities on trades, right? Things that you give hedge fund managers and pay fees to do that doesn't really require that much active management that actually could be made into something more investable in a tokenized format. I actually think this is a big thesis as well.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Each of these things can be explored more thoughtfully if you thought there was liquidity at the Birth of civilization. You have assets and you want to borrow against it. And you can do that on chain with Bitcoin in ways that is called private credit because it's an asset-backed loan, but there's nothing illiquid about what that loan is worth because the underlying collateral is Bitcoin and that is extremely liquid. And so there's no reason this should be private credit, but it is. And so that as a construct in which tokenization can bring liquidity that it can deserve, I think is kind of interesting pockets of opportunities and the ones that we'd like to keep an eye on and focus and bring institutional adoption for.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, yeah, totally. And by the way, it's not to actually discount all the great work that is being on the very basic of stablecoins and T-boats. These are actually foundational things we need. So actually, I give a lot of praise for the sacrifice that is being made by the pursuance of that business because these are necessary rails we have to build. But the adoption part will come when the product is interesting, in my opinion. And the product that I think that is interesting is the kinds of alternative assets that investors want to access today, but to traditional system makes it very challenging. So private credit is a really good example. Private credit is a catch-all phrase as an asset class of something that can be private for many different reasons, right? It could be middle market lending, it could be asset-backed securities, it could be esoteric litigation financing, whatever it is, it all becomes classified as private credit. But the reality is it's not really meaningful in that definition. And so”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Lot of hedge fund managers years and years ago saying that ETS were going to blow up the traditional financial system because they're making things liquid. It's like we call it the Jurassic Park problem. You're taking dinosaurs and putting them in computers today. But I think tokenization will be the same way. I think the analogy between ETFs and tokenization makes a ton of sense to me personally. But Jeff, you said you were saying the real benefit here is going to be things that aren't working well in the Tratfi world, but what's an example of something you think makes the most sense that would be tokenized? Because you kind of hinted at it, but you never actually said anything.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Do you have any thoughts, Robert, before I chime in? Let's move to the next question and keep it cash. Okay. Okay. Well, I just want to say something real quick. I like that you called it an invention, the ETFs or technology. I've actually argued, we have sister podcasts, Robert and I, and I argued with Laura Shin about this because we call the ETF technology an invention. And a lot of people are like, how can you call it that? But it really is. And one of the main things I hear about, it reminds me of talking about ETFs from like five or seven years ago or 10 years ago even. People are talking about tokenization. Like, you can't make things liquid that aren't liquid, but actually you can. And ETFs do that all the time. It's constant. Like the S&P 500 ETF is more liquid than all of its underlying. And yes, at the end of the day, if there's something breaks, the liquidity of the ETF is going to fall to the level of the underlying assets that it holds. And I feel like that's kind of the same thing as tokenization. But at the end of the day, when things are operating smoother, you can add liquidity. And there's like this theory out there that we had a lot.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Fully agree that the big opportunity when it comes to tokenization in RWA is operational efficiencies and what you can kind of what existing problems you can solve and I don't think that the low hanging fruit is things that already work very well. It's clearly about fixing things that are not fully operational yet. And so private credit is one of them. And then the first thing is obviously bringing on operational efficiencies for things that do not have that natively in TratFi. But then the second thing is not creating a tokenized version of something just for the sake of adding a tech layer to the thing. It needs to enable some applications then on chain and whether that's using the tokenized thing as collateral to enable lending or any other traditional application that actually makes a lot of sense. And when you think about the more illiquid parts of the lending world, typically back to private”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Point when institutions are going to start coming into the way you are describing RW that we're preaching about it is it has to bring a product that is so different than what we know in Tratify. Like these money market funds are great but to be honest like all of us probably prefer to just buy our money market funds in fidelity the way we know it right the reality is crypto can do much more interesting things on the long tail of assets, the projects you're working on where there historically hasn't been a liquidity transformation in the way that I was able to describe and that's the opportunity and I think that's the product market fit that's really going to bring institutional interest very deeply”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To it. And if you ask me what is the one fundamental thing that looks really different between ETFs and the way we talk about RWAs, my personal opinion is custody. There's an element of the custody model that really changes in the ways we think about RWAs, which is so entrenched in the traditional system as we know it. As ETF players, the ways in which the custodians touch every aspect of the clearing, to the settlement, to the pricing, that core piece can change with our WAs. And I think that's actually, to your point, maybe not the sexiest thing. Custodians are meant not to be the sexiest thing, but that is kind of the greatest room for, I think, innovations and where institutional interest will take place. They're going to look at that as an opportunity. And we're starting with the low-hanging fruits of money market funds. But my personal belief is that real inflection.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I agree with this. And in many ways, ETFs also in the theme of tokenization are actually more similar than different. What I mean by this is actually ETFs represent maybe one of the more primitive versions of what tokenization as a project is, right? If you think about what ETFs do, it's essentially one of the capital markets' greatest invention in what I call liquidity transformation, both on the underlying assets that historically may not have had liquidity being brought on by the ETF then becoming a substitute for those flows. But secondarily, as collateral assets, right? These ETFs then become collateral in which margin can be provided in ways that bring additional liquidity. That's incredible. And tokenization also provides a lot of ways to imagine this on-chain with different utilities, but there's a lot of similarities here. So this is something I think about all the time. Bitwise also thinks about all the time in terms of where is the movement of tokenization and how do ETFs play a role.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Maybe just super quick. I mean, if you look at some of the bigger asset managers that have started tokenizing money market products today, I feel like it's been a little bit of almost like a pay-to-play model where chains and protocols will be like, okay, we're going to buy a few bucks of your money market product to put it on our chain so we get a nice marketing spin and nice announcement. But if there's actually nothing happening with it, like kind of what's the point? It just sits there in a tokenized form as maybe a treasury diversification tool, fine. But when you actually start having these things become composable and more functional within DeFi, you're using them as collateral, using them in other different types of DeFi primitives, that's when it starts becoming quite interesting, but it's not there yet, right? That's a future promise. And I think the on-chain user experience improving, the ability to have regulated secondary market venues and secondary, or even just regulated applications in general was going to start unlocking these different use cases. But again, bit by bit. And I feel like our...”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Incentivize them to come on chain for the first time so you figure out what those incentive structures are. But you're literally have to go and teach them how to set up a wallet, how to manage keys, and all these different things. So experience improves, I think we're going to see this start coming and snowballing, which will be great. But it really is like a kind of a rigorous distribution model that is not all that sexy and attractive, but it's the way that it's going to start moving the needle.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“By managing subsidies and managing kind of economic incentives, you can actually reduce the costs of issuers to come on chain. So that's one thing. And at the same time, subsidized yield as well. So maybe just give a little bit of additional basis points just to make sure that people want to actually come on chain. With the understanding that eventually that will wean off and eventually the on-chain version of these type of assets will just be more programmable, more usable, more functional. But that's not really the case right now. Again, where we've seen some success is literally going almost like person by person through our network and actually teaching them how to come on-chain for the first time. So it's actually not really going after the existing on-chain capital, but actually this net new capital coming in, which I think is going to be a big benefit to the space because oftentimes the people that we're interacting with buying a tokenized money market product or tokenized private credit fund, they're already buying this stuff in the real world and you have to...”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. So we kind of see it in like this spectrum of permissionless versus permissioned, and that's why we've created a blockchain that has a permissionless layer, but effectively has this area where you can actually issue permissioned assets to onboarded KYC to accredited investors, who are actually the people who want to buy these type of products. If you look at the permissionless side of things, I think mainly of on-chain DeFi users, they don't necessarily want to do a rigorous onboarding experience multiple times to interact with products, and many times they're not actually that actively looking for a treasury product. Maybe they want a meme coin today, which is fine. But the institutional guys do want these yield-bearing products. That being said, the on-chain user experience today is still very clunky, and in many instances, like the economics actually aren't that attractive as well, because it's almost like this fees on fees model, right? So one of the ways that we've seen some success is effective.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Protocols and DAOs and foundations and hedge funds that are doing DeFi things and the most on-chain investors possible. And so yesterday it was announced that MakerDAO slash Sky in their Breed brand, one of the original DeFi protocols that creates a stablecoin is going to be using SuperState alongside BlackRock and Centrifuge to manage the assets underlying their stablecoin. So their stablecoin is backed by other stable coins like USDC. It's also backed by crypto native collateral. And this is an example of one of the largest assets in crypto moving its operations into RWAs, moving the backend of their stablecoin into a tokenized. Bill. And so they're allocating a billion dollars. It's pretty exciting. And over the next couple months and years, you know, it's possible that there are 5, 10 billion dollar investor in RWA”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, absolutely. So the first major real world asset that got popular in blockchains were stablecoins. People said, oh, let's take a dollar from offchain and put it on chain in the form of a token. Super popular. There's like $200 billion of stablecoins. Everybody loves them. The second successful direction of RWAs is definitely tokenized treasuries. After stablecoins, it's like, well, if you're going to take a dollar and put it on chain, what about taking a super safe short-term interest rate producing asset and put it on chain? And so tokenized T-bills or money market funds are really the next category that's beginning to grow. And the growth is pretty much in line with the velocity at stablecoins grew. And I think in a couple years, you know, the market will be the size of stablecoins potentially. But super states first major project is a tokenized T-bill fund, and it's designed for crypto native customers being...”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Amazing. Hi, everybody. I'm Jeff Park. I'm the head of Alpha Strategies at Bitwise Asset Management. Most of you guys will know us for having had the Bitcoin spot ETF, but we're also famous for having the world's largest crypto index fund, which has been around now for a long time. We were seven years old. We have about 100 people. We manage over $10 billion in assets today, which is a remarkable thing as a crypto company here in the United States.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm John Patrick Mullen or JP, CEO and co-founder of Mantra. We're a purpose-built real-world asset-focused layer one blockchain. Recently received unique licensing from Vara, which is the Dubai Virtual Asset Regulator for brokerage exchange and asset management, all natively on-chain DeFi specific. And we're one of the largest real-world asset tokens by market cap.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I'm Robert Leschner. I'm the CEO of SuperState. We're an asset management firm that's tokenizing the products we create. I'm more well known as the host of the chopping block podcast. If anyone in crypto listens to that, and I formerly founded Compound.”
2025-03-28 · Forward Guidance · Why Institutions Are Betting On Tokenization | LIVE Panel From DAS · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT