YouSaid · the spoken record

John Tye

lines on the record: 91
first: 2019-09-25
most recent: 2019-09-25
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Yeah, and you can read some of their cases, their most prominent one recently has been the situation at MIT where they got a whistleblower to work with a journalist and had quite a lot of results for that. If you like this episode, we'd really appreciate it if you shared it with a friend. And make sure to check out our other podcast, Recode Media, Pivot and Land of the Giants. Just search for them in your podcasting app of choice. Thanks also to our editor Joel Robbie. Thanks for listening to this episode of Rico Decode. I'll be back here on Friday. Tune in then.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“100% transparency declassify everything, publish everything. No, like some things, you know, there were human rights activists named in some of the manning cables who had to leave their countries and come to the United States and leave their family careers behind. Yeah, and so there are real privacy costs to mass leaks that we recognize, and that makes every case complicated and different. There can be a place for secrecy for certain types of secrets, especially protecting people's privacy, but figuring out where to draw that line, I would say, is with the whole society is struggling with that. Absolutely.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There is, you know, this gets actually back to our sort of philosophy here. I mean, unlike Wikileaks, we do agree that the government, there is a legitimate scope of secrecy for US government, at least some secrets, right? And so we're not.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Talk to the lawyer. I mean, every case is different. I can't give you advice in a lot of companies just won't hire you if you don't sign it. So, you know, but it's unclear whether it's enforceable”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, we've seen a real Renaissance of whistleblowing over the last 10 years, and it started, so people like Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden have, I would say, a contested legacy, and some people hate them and some people love them, but certainly they've brought it more into the public eye and made people realize that this is a crucial way for holding the government and these corporations accountable. So yeah, I think I would say I'm seeing certainly we're seeing an uptick in inquiries. And then the question is, can we bring these disclosures to light without letting these people get hurt?”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“More surveillance. So, no, I think this is a, it's a cat and mouse game. People are going to try to commit misconduct if they think they can get away with it and it'll help them. And then other people will try to uncover that. I mean, this is sort of a universal human theme here. Obviously, it is changing with technology, but I don't think, I mean, anyone who writes the AI systems will know the workarounds and the hacks.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the idea of AI monitoring everyone for misconduct is a little creepy to me. So, you know, I would say I'm a sort of technoskeptic on a lot of these things. We obviously use it, but I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I see. So in this modern age, when we're thinking about what a whistleblower is, you're saying there never been more important, correct? They've never been more important. Will that change? Is there any system that you can imagine where AI or technology could monitor misbehavior in a better way than having to rely on the bravery of people coming forward where their jobs are at risk? And then secondly, when you're thinking about the concept of retaliation, protecting and proving that people are being retaliating, and so I'm thinking of like right now, Google, for example, the walkout people feel like they're under a retaliation, but it's often never provable. Do you imagine technology being able to do that someday or not at all? It just relies on people.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Again, yeah, I mean, that would typically be a way that we would, an option we'd consider. But every case is different, and some clients really want to put their name on things. Others really don't. We have a State Department client who we...”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Secure the evidence, ideally either print it off or buy a new device and take photos. But again, I don't want to give blanket advice because you wouldn't do that in a skiff with classified information. No, of course not. And then use clean new devices unrelated to you, bought in cash, and use the Signal app. I mean.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So Well, I mean, yeah, technology, I mean, you have made a wonderful career out of this. There's so many different implications in every aspect of our lives, it does. Typically create a stronger chain of evidence for misconduct. So that's the first insight. And as I advise clients on how to avoid retaliation, we are obviously thinking about the technological angle and how these technologies could be creating a trail to the client that we want to avoid.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's so funny. I just had an interview with an election official. They're like, paper. Paper is the technology of the future. So not having these. So can we finish up talking sort of about the impact of tech on all of this? Because, again, as I said, in one some ways it makes your job easier, in others, it creates a situation where whistleblowers have never been more at risk.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't bring any devices with you. Take multiple forms of transportation, learn to look around without looking like you're looking around.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“From what I understand Yeah, I mean, we've met with former intelligence officers to train us on how to have meetings without being followed and all the rest of it.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, and New York, I think, is a one party, from what I understand. So that's one that's taping. The other is photographs. The other is censors, people following you around and knowing where you are. When you have your whistleblowers, that's got to be a concern.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, I don't know, although I do know that Massachusetts is a one-party state. Excuse me, I got it wrong. Massachusetts is a two-party state. Both parties have to consent to a recording, whereas DZ is a one-party jurisdiction.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, again, the only thing I can, the only piece of advice you won't regret is talking to a lawyer. If you start taking, if you walk into your work and start taking pictures of sensitive things, you could get in trouble, you could get sued, depending on what it is, you could be prosecuted.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, but you'd have to assume that this was the thing. So you've got cameras. You've got to make sure that when you're taking pictures or doing else that you're doing it legally, correct? Or not within a state or taping someone? Although sometimes it hardly matters if you can use it for leverage, obviously.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, this is the world. This is the world. And, you know, I will, let me say I'll be interested to see as the Epstein story develops what kind of”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With a cell phone. Well, again, it's very, I mean, again, talk to a lawyer before you do anything because in some states it's illegal to record someone without their knowledge and consent. So we don't want to get people in trouble here. And, you know, so that's why the advice is always talk to a lawyer first.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. I mean, it was a staunching. And then the second part is a malwatt thing is the recordings. Look at what happened to Roger Ailes. Look at what happened to How do you treat those? Because anyone with a cell phone.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. You know, I'm not especially surprised. I mean, you know, it seems pretty straightforward. They wanted Epstein's money. They didn't want to associate with him.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, people do use work devices. I was always fascinated when they would send me memos like, don't do that. Just a picture of it's fine on a device that is known by your company and possibly a camera. Just send me a camera picture at this number and stuff like that. But there's never been more information available at the same time because the government and these companies are generating enormous amounts of proof of behavior.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just a camera. I would buy a new phone Or an iPod, actually. The iPod is cheap and small, and it doesn't connect to 4G 3G, but it connects to Wi-Fi.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Or even on a secure device, it's difficult. You wouldn't do this for classified information, but you can take photos with your secure device of the screen so that there's no evidence even of printing. Things like that. So you're looking to preserve the evidence without creating a trail that leads back to you.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, so when whistleblowers come and ask me for advice, my first piece of advice is always talk to a lawyer first before you do anything else. But then the very second piece of advice is secure the evidence. And typically that's not forwarding the emails to journalists. It's printing them off because you don't want to create a record of forwarding to anyone.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, talking about that idea that here there's never been a bigger need because the information is covert and the ability to track these people has never been stronger and at the same time the ability for whistleblowers to have the people that are whistleblowing on their behavior track has also never been better. Everyone's in emails. I'm thinking of like, I was talking this morning because some of the government has investigated different governments are investing all the tech companies. And the only thing I'm thinking about is, oh, the emails. It's the Hillary Clinton joke, but boy, are there going to be a lot of good evidence that will look bad if correctly assembled?”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We are trying to fill that gap. And there would say we're only scratching the surface. You know, there are so a lot of cases that we've gotten in and that we've just had to say no on because we don't have enough people and lawyers and stuff. My point is that the demand for this is if you look nationally and globally it's basically infinite. Right, infinite. Yeah. I mean, think of all of the here's when we have the money and the staff.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So much of the threats to democracy today are hidden and covert, and it's about the control of information, the misuse of information, and that's true, obviously, in all these tech companies, all these government agencies. And so as that happens, as threats to democracy are contingent on the control of information, the value of whistleblowers is going up every single day. And the threats to whistleblowers for retaliation and for people to find out who they are. So, you know, I would say we...”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, well, so one of the sort of hypotheses when we started whistleblower aid is that sort of the way that the world is moving, the structure of government and economies is whistleblowers are becoming systematically more important every day that goes by. And the reason for that is that 50 years ago, if you think about the biggest threats to democracy and governance, it was things like segregation or, you know, like things where there's clear laws on the books and everyone knows what these laws are and we need to overthrow these laws.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“At the federal election commissions. It's kind of a perfect storm of possible corruption, alleged corruption. So what happens now with this whistleblower? What occurs? It's a standoff between essentially the White House and Congress again.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But it was never contemplated by the people who wrote the statute that something that did constitute an urgent concern would not be permitted to go to Congress. And that's where we find ourselves today.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's a confusing situation. There's basically some imperfections or ambiguities in the law here where if the IG had found it was not an urgent concern, then the whistleblower would have a clear path to go to Congress.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It can be the first step. It's not necessary that there's actually a lot of options, but it's a typical first step. That inspector general found that this met the legal standard to be a, quote, urgent concern. But nevertheless, the Director of National Intelligence refused to turn that urgent concern over to Congress.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, my colleagues at Whistleblower Aid, two of members of our legal team, are this person's lawyer. That's right. Andrew Bacai and Mark Sade. Broadly speaking, A US official. I can't really go into details. A U.S. official. Had what they considered an urgent concern, which is the legal term of art, that related to Communications with a foreign government And brought that concern to the inspector general of the intelligence commissioner.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, exactly. And so these are all different. You pointed out these are all very different. As we get back, I want to talk a little bit about where whistleblowing is going in the modern age. Obviously, you have to protect the whistleblowers, but at the same time, the massive amount of email, the massive amount of text, the massive amount of things, does create an opportunity and a problem at the same time. I'm thinking of what's happening with Ukraine this week, and I want to get into that. And then also a lot of these companies, the amount of information they have on people and who should protect this so that people do not are able to do these things in a way that's legal. We're here with John Napier Ty. He's the founder and CEO of Whistleblower Aid. We're going to take a quick break now, and we'll be right back.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, Lucky Mal Watt. This story didn't get nearly the coverage it deserved for that reason. I won't speak out of turn here, but I will say that we did a lot of advocacy for Simone. We even had a billboard, a mobile billboard out on the back of a flatback truck driving in circles around the FHFA office for like three or four weeks saying basically saying fire malwatt. Right, exactly.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And her pay, her, you know, her pay discrimination complaint was contingent on that discussion kind of thing. So, pretty egregious. The reason most people haven't heard of it is there was actually an eight-hour hearing in the House of Representatives last year. But the reason, and in most worlds, that would probably be a front-page news story. This is a Senate confirmed official saying these things on tape. Hearing was literally simultaneous with a Kavanaugh hearing happening on the other side of the Capitol building. So obviously the media covered that.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, our client, Simone Grimes, is a wonderful person. She had evidence that the former head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, a guy named Mel Watt, who had been a Democratic congressman, committed both pay discrimination and pretty egregious sexual harassment. She had him on tape saying things like, let's discuss our sexual attraction. I'm paraphrasing here, so don't quote me, but things like let's discuss our sexual attraction alone at my vacation house this weekend, that kind of thing.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, obviously, we're all concerned about stopping the nomination of William Bryan to serve in this position of trust. I would say that's the main thing because we're very close to signing a favorable settlement on the Bob's job.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Came to me maybe a year ago, just over a year ago. And we filed a couple of, you know, we filed a disclosure with the U.S. Office of Special Counsel and a reprisal complaint. So just last week, The U.S. Office of Special Counsel referred that disclosure to Secretary Perry, Secretary of Energy for further investigation, saying that they had found a significant likelihood of misconduct by Brian. So we're obviously hoping he is not confirmed and that he is forced out of government because he should be. And we are well along the way of getting a good job result for our client who's still at DOE.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, a few things. Department of Homeland Security, there's a presidential nominee in the Senate right now named William Bryan. Brian is currently acting undersecretary at DHS. He had been at Department of Energy. And while he was there, he was the point person for energy policy towards the country of Ukraine. This was back in 2013, 14, 15. One of his colleagues who became our client basically was really upset and freaked out that it seemed like he was not pursuing American interests, that he was basically cultivating relationships with oligarchs and their staff to advance his private energy consulting business. He wrote a report that validated this coal monopoly by this guy, Renat Akhmatov, in Ukraine. My client, Bob Ive”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're going to keep pushing and see what kind of result we can get from the CIA. He's gone on to an illustrious career, actually. He's now the lead lawyer for the intelligence whistleblower you've been. Reading about in the New York Times”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and it was a classic thing where they accused him of fake security violations. So because the executive branch has basically unilateral authority on security clearances and Security matters, they just say, Oh, they come up with a pretextual reason and said, oh, his clearance is suspended. We can't trust him. And then he couldn't work. So he was on leave for months, maybe a year, and then finally just quit and started his own law firm.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so our very first case was to CIA officers, Andrew Bakay and Jonathan Kaplan, whose names are public now, been reported. They had evidence that the presidential nominee in the Senate for the Inspector General of the CIA, a guy named Christopher Sharpley, had been committing investigative misconduct, lying to Congress, retaliating against people, other things. So after that came out, sharply had to resign his nomination and he had been acting, he left his acting. We just last week for Andrew won a formal ruling that the CIA had committed unlawful reprisal against him. So we're obviously very proud of that. Yes, right here. Yeah.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the New York Times MacArthur Foundation. Exactly. And the president of MIT is under a lot of pressure also because more emails have come to pass that they knew about it. Of course, they always know about it. So not always, but it's a shocking amount how much they knew about it before stuff. Talk about some other cases, some key cases that you think are really important.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like once a week. Right. So paper works, or you eat it or something like that. So there's all these, because what has happened is we've been introduced to a lot of technological wonders that let us communicate, but they track us everywhere we go. And I think people don't realize how tracked and censored and camera this whole country is. We'll get into that, not just this country. I mean, obviously China we talk about all the time, but this country is the same thing. And so each of these whistleblowers get in touch with you in these various technological ways to protect from the Internet. Talk a little bit about some of the other cases. You have the MIT case, which she was giving emails, which she had rights to, I guess, or they had led her. and then released it to a reporter, very traditional. The guy got fired.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because we do a lot in person. We have air-gapped machines and printers that we use to create documents, and then we only print them on the AirGap printer, so there's no way for that data to hit the internet and get stolen. And then we have a burn bucket and we burn up all the papers once a week. Right.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. What it is is you create different, it can be anything from going to China and buying an Android device and then never signing on to anything and then throwing it out afterwards to using WhatsApp, to using Signal to using.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But we have a good website, our core, which is you can basically send us a message, our special site called SecureDrop. Created by Freedom of the Press Foundation, which does a great job, or they manage it. And basically this is the sort of state of the art online communication security platform. It'll take you five extra minutes compared to sending an email, but it's so much more secure. So that's what we do. That's the only way to reach us. And yeah, I mean, I'm not going to go into the details, but I will say everyone who works for us has a special device with special VPNs. created an anonymous numbers and aliases. I mean, it's quite elaborate.”
2019-09-25 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Whistleblower Aid CEO John Tye · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT