YouSaid · the spoken record

Kashmir Hill

lines on the record: 86
first: 2023-10-17
most recent: 2023-10-17
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“They can buy it anywhere, you know, Amazon, if you're into the tech giants, you can get it at Barnes Noble. I just like making.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“See this in a lot of arenas now, the kind of like go through the concession line faster, just pay with your face for your coke. And that's part of the normalization of the technology. I think that's fine. You know, if you're comfortable with that and it makes your life easier, that's great. But I think we should have limits on it so that they can't just start building some crazy face database and using it for something else. I really think we need to put limits on a technology to protect us.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so Madison Square Garden installed facial recognition, as many shops now have done, like grocery stores use this to keep out shoplifters. And Madison Square Garden was saying, you know, we want to keep out stalkers during concerts. We want to keep out people who've been violent in the stadium before. And then in the last year, they started using it to ban lawyers who worked at firms that had sued Madison Square Garden because the owner, James Dolan, didn't like them and how much money they cost him. But Madison Square Garden has done this for all their properties in New York, you know, Beacon Theater, Radio City Music Hall, but they have a theater in Chicago. And they can't do that there because Illinois has this law. You can't use lawyers' face prints without their permission. So again, laws work. We could pass more of them if we want to. But yeah, I mean, companies are definitely rolling out facial recognition technology on us to kind of deter crime and then as a service. And I do.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Already seeing a bunch of private uses of this, maybe not the Panopticon version, but the hey, the sports stadium has facial recognition technology to track the person on their way out the door. Madison Square Garden famously is tracking lawyers from law firms that are suing the Dolan family. That's happening. Is that going to keep happening? Do some of these laws affect that too? Are we going to have little zones of privacy and little zones of not privacy? Yeah.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, we know of a handful of wrongful arrests where people have been arrested, put in jail for the crime of looking like someone else. And in every case, it's involved a person who is black. So already we're seeing when it goes wrong, it's going wrong for people who are black. Facial recognition technology is being used more on them. We need to make some decisions right now what we want the world to look like and whether we want our faces tracked all the time. I hope the answer is no. I hope that doesn't happen because I do think we need zones of privacy. And I don't want to live in a panopticon.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Or do we set more rules where we control whether we're in these databases? We control when this is used for our benefit versus on us. And there's so many questions there because if we do kind of roll it out more widely, it's just going to be used against some people more than others. And I mean, we're already seeing it in the police use.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I think Clairev wants to keep selling this to law enforcement, and they are. I mean, I think that the questions we need to ask ourselves right now are how widely deployed do we want this to be? And it's a question at the government level, do we want police only using this to solve crimes that have already happened? Or do we want to roll out facial recognition technology on cameras around the country so that you can get real-time alerts when there is a fugitive on the loose? You know, I was thinking about this when that guy escaped in Pennsylvania, and it just felt like we were looking for him for forever. And I can imagine a case like that being, they say, well, you know, if we just put facial recognition on the cameras, then we could find them in an instant. So yeah, that question of do we deploy it more widely? Do we all have an app like this on our phone”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I'm not certain about that. Even the executives from the tech companies. So let's talk about where this goes, right? We've sort of established that Clearview is a pretty singular company, right? They've built a technology that other people could have built, but for various reasons, most notably the governments of Europe and Illinois, two governments that you often think of together. Other people aren't in this market. But the cops really like this technology. Dad's looking at their daughters on dates and restaurants appear to really like this technology. There's a market for it. There's a demand for it. The harms are pretty hard to explain to people. Is this going to keep happening? Are there going to be more state level laws or European Union laws? Is everyone just waiting to see what happens with Clearview? What does Clearview think is going to happen?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. Or you set your face to public because you're like, this is great for advertising my business. But then you're out at a bar with your side piece and you forget that your face is public. And now you are in trouble. Yeah, it's just hard to anticipate the harms. Sometimes the benefits are more obvious, and sometimes the harms are more obvious. And maybe a facial recognition technology, these companies haven't released it because they do see the harms more clearly than the benefits.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I want to be Feels like eating too much sugar or something, right? Like there's something happening here where, of course, I won't ever enter the party to know who I am and what my interests are. So they can come talk to me. But 10 years down the line, I'm sitting in a jail for a week waiting for my lawyer to tell the cops that wasn't me. Those are so disconnected in time and harm that I'm just not sure how to communicate that to people. Right.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The technology is offered by a company that knows our social graph. I just wonder if that happens. How many people opt into that? And then do you get completely stigmatized if you're a person who says, I want to be private all the time?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So the version of this that I imagine could be possible would be like in the way that we set the privacy of our Facebook profiles or our Instagram pages, we say this is public or this is visible only to friends or friends of friends can see the content. I could imagine a version of meta's augmented reality glasses where you could set the privacy of your face and say, okay, I'm willing to opt into facial recognition technology and I want my face to be public. I want anybody who's wearing these glasses to know who I am or you know my social graph. I want to be recognizable by people I'm connected to on Facebook or Instagram or threads or I want to be recognizable to friends of friends. Like I could imagine that world in which we, yeah, we have the ability to say how recognizable we want our friends to be because”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think this is the killer app for these glass. Like, I would wear the headset all day. You could put me in one of their silly VR headsets all day long if I could do faces and names. Like I'm horrible at faces and names, I would probably be history's greatest politician if I could just remember people's names, right? I believe this about myself because it's how I excuse the fact that I am really bad at faces and names. That's the killer app, right? You wear the glasses are expensive, whatever, but it can just tell you who other people are. I know that people would buy that product without a second's hesitation. The societal cost of that product seems like it's too high, right? I don't know how to build that product in a privacy sensitive way, and no one I've ever interviewed on this show has ever offered me a solution. But the market wants that product, right?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I remember a few years ago when Google had that art selfie app, do you remember that? You could take a photo and it would tell you what masterpiece you look like. And it didn't work in Illinois and it didn't work in Texas. They kind of geofenced them off because they're, I mean, it is a really expensive law to break. So I think that's part of it. And, you know, they have introduced this technology in ways. Like when I go on my iPhone, I can search all my photos by face and see them all. And that's a convenient tool. And I think their users like it. Maybe it's just we as a society aren't asking for the ability to just recognize everybody at Cocktail Party. I mean, Meta, Andrew Bosworth at Meta has talked a few years ago about how he would love to give us facial recognition capabilities in glasses. And it would be great at a cocktail party to put a name to a face or blind users or face blind people could use it, but that he's worried maybe society doesn't want this. Maybe it's.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think facial recognition technology is more controversial. There's just something that is specifically toxic about it. I do think there is worry. I think there's worry about legality. Illinois has this law around use of face prints.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's the flip side of this, and it's kind of where we started. The big companies have had the opportunity to do it for a long time. This is a very processor-intensive task. They're running these high-end machine learning algorithms. You need all this stuff. Amazon could do it, Google can do it, Facebook can do it, Apple could do it if they wanted to. But they don't. They have stopped themselves, and they haven't even stopped themselves in the way they usually stop themselves. Like, they're not saying, hey, you should pass a law. We're definitely going to do this, which is what they're effectively doing with AI right now. They're just not doing it. I can't recall another time when all of those companies have just sort of not done something and they have allowed one startup to go take all the heat. Is there a reason for that? Is there just like an ineffable morality inside of all these companies that's keeping them from doing it? Or is there a reason?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I just think people don't anticipate the harms. I mean, I think that's what's so hard about privacy is that you don't realize what is going to hurt you, what information is out there is going to harm you until it happens, until you do get wrongfully arrested for a crime because a police officer made a mistake and identified you with Clearview. It's just, it's hard to see it coming. You don't realize until after it's happened.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Legislative aids making sure the law is in compliance. Yeah. Is that just people don't know and there needs to be a bunch of education? Is that eventually people realize like this is happening? And I should go and proactively try to stop it. What keeps people from wanting to protect their privacy?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Mostly it's probably tech reporters and privacy academics. And yeah, students who are doing it as their homework for some class.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, California actually is part of its law, has this requirement that a company has to disclose like how many times people use this right against them? And so I was looking at Clearview's privacy page to find out, you know, California has millions and millions and millions of people. And Clearview last year, I think, got something like 451 requests for deletion there. Which seems quite tiny. I would think it would be higher than that.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think enough people know that they can do that if I lived in one of those states, I would be doing that like every week and just being like, who knows about me, delete it. There should be a secondary economy of companies just offering that service to people, right? Well, there already are in some cases. There is delete me that just sort of like deletes you from various things. Is that the solution here that there's just a market for privacy and you can be on one side of it or the other?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The right to access information that a company holds on you and delete it. So if you live in California or Connecticut or Virginia or Colorado, you can go to Clearview and say, hey, I want to see my results. And if you don't like being in their database, you can say delete me from your database.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and they don't do anything. I kind of chart it in the book, but strange political bed fellows coming together again and again to talk about facial recognition technology and its harms as civil liberties, most recently a hearing led by John Lewis, who has since passed, but civil rights leader, he was leading the impeachment investigation into Trump. And he partnered with Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows, huge Trump supporters in Congress. And they had this hearing about facial recognition technology. And they said it. They said there's not much we agree on here, but this is a topic that unites us. We all believe we need to protect citizens from invasions of their privacy. And then nothing happens. It's just so gridlocked at the national level that I don't have a lot of hope for something coming from there. But we have seen a lot of activity on this at the local level and at the state level, from BIPA and maybe other states would pass something like that to just state privacy laws. They give you.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's strange to me because I hear so often from lawmakers that privacy is a bipartisan issue, that everyone's on board, you know, that no one likes the idea of a”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Kind of incredible if the Department of Homeland Security is funding a bunch of fines to the Illinois government to keep this company afloat. But that's kind of the cycle we're in, right? The revenue is going to come from law enforcement agencies to pay fines to a state government instead of there being any sort of federal law or cohesive regulatory system. Is any change there on the horizon that there might be a federal facial recognition law or more states might look at, quite frankly, the revenue that Illinois is going to gain from this and pass their own laws, or is it still kind of status quo?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And there's this Illinois law is very expensive to break. It's five thousand dollars per person whose face print you use. It costs Facebook $650 million to settle a lawsuit over BIPA for automatically recognizing faces to tag friends and photos. And so, I mean, it could break the company. Clearview's only raised something like $30 million. So yeah, I keep waiting to see what's going to happen financially for them.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, there are copycats. There's this public face search engine that anyone can use called PIMES. It doesn't have as large a database. It doesn't have as many photos come up, but it is out there. Yeah, I haven't heard about anyone else doing exactly what Clearview is doing and selling it to police. Most other companies just sell a facial recognition algorithm. And the customer has to supply the database of faces. So that does set Clearview apart. And yeah, I just wonder how it's going to affect other businesses, just the reaction to Clearview. It has been such a controversial company. It has run into so many headwinds and it's unclear at this point.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, that's the part that I'm really curious about. Is there competition here? Is Raytheon trying to build a system like this? If you see a market, right, and particularly a lucrative government contracting market, it seems like the big company should be racing in to build competitive products or more expensive products or better products. Is that happening or are they in a market of one?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, either they have a lot of users, their DHS is like, we're going to pay you a lot because we want to make sure that you stay in business.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, yeah, he's not happy about it. And Clearview sell their technology for very cheap compared to other government contractors. Yeah. I mean, when I first started looking into them and I'm getting these government contracts showing up in public records requests, in some cases they were charging police like $2,000 a year for access to the tool, like one subscription for $2,000. Now their most recent one, they signed with the Department of Homeland Security is close to $800,000 for the year. So either they've got a lot of users, it still seems cheap, right? But either they have a lot of users”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So one of the investors I've talked to a few times is David Scalzo. He was a venture capitalist out here on the East Coast. And he was so excited about investing in Clearview AI because he told me they weren't just going to sell this to police. They were going to sell this to companies. They were going to sell this to individuals. He said everyone in America is going to have the Clearview AI app on their phone. The moms of America are going to use this to protect their children. And he thought he was going to make a ton of money off of Clearview AI. He said it's going to be, you know, the new Google, the way you talk about Googling someone, you're going to talk about Clearviewing their faces. And so he has been frustrated by the company kind of agreeing to tie its hands, just selling it to police. Because he says, I didn't want to invest in a government contractor. And yeah, there is a question about the future of Clearview.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Police departments they have a contract with the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI kind of widely used by the government, but it was important in that, yeah, it means they can't sell it to private companies. So that cuts off one line of business for them.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was funny because both sides presented the settlement as a win. The ACLU said, we filed the suit because we wanted to prove that this Illinois law BIPA works. And Cleaview AI did try to say that it's unconstitutional, that it was a violation of their First Amendment right to kind of search the internet and access public information. That didn't work. They had to settle. So ACLU said, hey, we proved that BIPPA works. Other states need BIPA. We need BIPA at the federal level. Meanwhile, Clearview agreed in the settlement to restrict the sale of their database only to the government and law enforcement. And so ACLU said, hey, we won because now this huge database of billions of faces won't be sold to companies, won't be sold to individuals. McClearview said, hey, this is a win for us. We're going to continue doing what we're doing, selling our tool to the police. And they do still have lots of contracts.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Put our faces online next to our names, to the actual technologies and algorithms that engineers at universities and at these companies developed and then made available to them. So yeah, they're building on what came before. I don't think that necessarily means that we do have to keep letting them do what they're doing. But so far we have in the US, in much of the US.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, Clearview AI is in so many ways building on the technology that came before it from, yeah, they ended up hiring Floyd Abrams as their lawyer, preeminent First Amendment lawyer, you know, worked for the New York Times to defend the right of the newspaper to publish the Pentagon papers. And he was specifically talking about precedent from Google Cases that supported what Clearview AI was doing, that they're a search engine. And instead of searching for names, they're searching for faces that hasn't been completely successful for them in the courts. Judges have said, okay, fine, you have the right to search images and look at what's out on the internet, but you don't have the right to create this biometric identifier for people that that is an extra step too far. But yeah, I mean, in so many ways, they're building on what came before from all these technology companies encouraging us to put our photos online.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, it's interesting. Someone did once upon a time make that argument against Google, right? And there is that case, we're already in the Bayberts end, so I will say it was perfect 10 versus Google, perfect 10 was a softcore porn magazine, I think. And Google was doing Google Images and they were taking the thumbnails. A lot of the law of the internet is like this. Google images, right? There is reverse image search on Google. Do you see a difference in those two things? I'm confident that I could put my face into Google Image Reverse Search and it would spit out some answers that look like me or Army. Is there a meaningful difference here?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I'm not a lawyer. I just played one when I was a baby blogger above the law. But what Clearview often argues is that they are very comparable to Google. And they say, these are not our images. We're not like claiming ownership over these images. We're just making it searchable in the same way that Google makes things searchable. And when you do a search in Clearview AL, all it shows you is kind of the little face. And you have to click a link to see where the full images on the internet and where it came from. I have talked to officers who have found deleted photos with Clearview AI. So it makes me think that they are in fact storing the images. But yeah, I just, I haven't seen somebody make that argument against them yet.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, we have a joke on the Virge staff that the only functional regulation on the internet is copyright law. Like, if you want something to come down off the internet, your fastest way to doing it is to file a DMCA request. I'm shocked that a bunch of Flickr users haven't done this with Clearview. I'm shocked that someone else has not realized, okay, this company boosted my photos. Getty images. We just had the CEO on Decoder. I'm shocked that they haven't done this. Is it just the company still in the shadows, or have they actually developed a defense? It just seems at this point, given the nature of copyright lawsuits on the internet, like it's out of the norm that there isn't one.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Employer sites, they seem to be pretty good at targeting places that are likely to have faces. And one of my last meetings with Wonton Tat before I was done with the book, they had just crawled Flickr. And he himself was finding all these photos of himself when he was a kid, like a baby coder in Australia. He said, it's a time machine. We invented it. And he did a search on me and it showed photos I didn't know were on Flickr that one of my sister's friends took it was me at a point in my life when I was depressed. I was heavier. I weighed more. I like don't put. Photos from that time on the internet, but there they were. Clearview had them.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Know unfortunately they're not a government actor, they're a private company, so I can't send them a public records request and find out what all their sources are. So I mostly see it through when I see an example of a search, whether they run it on me or I see it show up in a police investigation. But yeah, I mean, it seems like pretty wide out there. I mean, news sites.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So when I first wrote about them in january twenty twenty they had three billion faces and today, well, they probably have more, but last I heard they had 30 billion faces. So they are continuing to grow their database.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, you think you're like in a crowd and you're anonymous and like you don't realize they have these night fishing cameras at the show staring down at you, capturing everything that's happening. I think if we have more moments like that that affect lawmakers where, yeah, they thought they were in this private space and think that it was being taped, that it would be tied back to them. I just think all of us, even if you think, oh, I'm fine, like I'd be fine with people knowing who I am. There's moments in your day where you're doing things that you just wouldn't want easily known by strangers around you or, you know, a company or government. I just think that that is true. And we have seen this get restricted other places like Europe investigated, all the privacy regulators in Europe, in Canada, Australia. They looked at what Clearview did and they said, this breaks our privacy laws. You're not allowed to collect people's sensitive, you know, information, biometric faceprint this way.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I feel like we're at the tipping point right now of deciding, you know, are we going to continue having anonymity in our everyday life, in our public spaces or not, I hope we go the way of yes and I feel like lawmakers oftentimes it is very private for them. And how does this get used against them? And I think about that crazy recording from the Beetlejuice show. And you're fondling your boyfriend and getting fondled. And you kind of think you're a null. I wasn't sure.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. You know, you ask somebody if they would put a camera in the bathroom, and they're like, no. And you're like, well, you carry seven of them in there all the time. But of course you have to have your phone in your bathroom. Do you see that changing at the policy level? Okay. Now here's a set of technologies that is even more invasive or can do this tracking that we don't think we should do or could get a politician into trouble like it did with Nixon or X, Y, and Z, bad thing could happen. We should probably restrict it before it gets widespread. Or is the nihilism, the cultural nihilism around privacy kind of still the dominant mode?”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They were. It would be illegal. And also, like, it would be harder. It feels like it would be much harder to light up your microphone all the time and listen to you than just assemble the digital fingerprint that they've managed to assemble and show you the ads for a vacation that your friend was talking about. And, you know, you can like explain it. But then people just fall back on, well, Facebook is just listening to me on my phone. And I still have a phone and it's fine. And that's the nihilism, right? That's where the nihilism comes into play, where even when people assume that one of the most invasive things that can happen is happening, they're like, well, my phone's so useful. I definitely need to keep letting Facebook listen to me. Yeah.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, We'll put that in a practice for me. I've read a lot of your reporting. A lot of your reporting is about how the big tech companies build these ubiquitous surveillance networks, mostly to put advertising in front of us. At the end of it all, they're just trying to sell us some paper towels, right? And like faster than ever before. And there's billions of dollars in between me and the paper towels. But that's what it's for, right? It's like very targeted advertising. And there's some debate about whether it's even effective, which I think is very funny. But that's what it's largely for. And I go out, you know, I see my family. I listen to our readers and they're like, Facebook is listening to us on our iPhones. And they won't believe me that probably not, you know, that's probably not happening, that there's this other very complicated multiple billion dollar mechanism that just makes it seem like Facebook is listening. I mean”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People at the time were freaking out that they were just going to be recorded all the time, that you could no longer have a private conversation, that there were just these bugs everywhere. And we passed laws to make, you know, eavesdropping illegal to restrain the ability to record conversations. And it's the reason why all of these surveillance cameras that just kind of are everywhere in public space now are only recording our images.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I am not a privacy nihilist if I were, I probably wouldn't be on the beat because what's the point? I do think that we can change course. And I do think that we can restrain technologies through norms and through policies and regulations and laws. We could live in a world where there were speed cameras on every road and jaywalking cameras everywhere. And if you sped or if you jaywalked, you would immediately get a ticket. But I don't think any of us want to live in that world. And so even though that's possible, it doesn't exist. Jay Stanley at the ACLU gave me this great example of a time that we've restricted technology. And that's last century when there were all these like tiny bugs and recording devices that were starting to get manufactured. If you've heard the Nixon White House tapes, then you've benefited from that technology.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I can already hear the responses from some of our listeners who think you can't put the genie back in a bottle ever and your privacy is already gone just by holding a smartphone. Your privacy is already gone. And what is the difference between having your face out there versus your already gigantic digital fingerprint? Is the genie just out of the bottle? It feels like we might be in a liminal moment where there is a law in Illinois and maybe there should be a federal law or maybe we should just say stop in some way, just like scream out the windows, please stop. But there's a chance, right, that it's already over in a generation of young Americans in particular just believes that all the cameras on the internet and the cops can look at them and that's going to be that.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Be used in chilling ways against protesters or to, you know, gather damning information about a political opponent. It's such a range that I really think we need to think hard about this and not just let it kind of slip in and become ubiquitous or become normalized without setting up some guardrails.”
2023-10-17 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Clearview AI and the end of privacy, with author Kashmir Hill · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT