YouSaid · the spoken record

Kate Raworth

lines on the record: 57
first: 2023-06-12
most recent: 2023-06-12
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I'm just going to be listening out to Alistair, too. The next time you start talking about thriving economy. Oh, I'm very pleased to hear you say”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's for me a huge amount of energy from it because these are people who actually see possibility and they don't just, you know, is what I always say, don't be an optimist if it makes you relax and say, oh, we're going to do it because people are ingenious and there's technology because that ain't going to happen. But don't be a pessimist if that makes you sit back and say it's too hard, we're too late, we are too many, it's too difficult, we're too stuck because if you sit back, well, it's going to be true. So be in action. Get into action in whatever you're doing. I'm working with the people who are in action. And yes, I have huge doubts about whether we can do it or not, but this is the best thing that I can see that can happen and it's energizing working with people who actually putting new ideas into practice.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Energy building around this. And so I'm just going to keep on working with that energy and see where it emerges. And we just follow it. I never knock on a shut door, so I'm not interested in lobbying politicians or anybody who doesn't want to hear it. I'm not trying to convince anybody because there are so many people for whom this makes sense. So we're bringing that ground swell together to show the seeds of a possible future, to show what it looks like in community and in a company. And you may not heard the company, but you know what you hadn't heard of Apple. You haven't heard of Apple decades ago and up it arises. You hadn't heard of Amazon until it. So we've heard some of them. Let them make them come through.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Current political narrative because there's no room for it. Who already want to put this into practice? So I'm working with them and it's an incredible distributed community of people popping up. I've never once tried to persuade or lobby or convince anybody to use these ideas. And what's energizing about it is the people are coming and say, we want to use these ideas. They express what we already want to make happen. So I find it highly energizing. Are there moments of doubt? Of course there's moments of doubt. Will the world transform in time? Well, it doesn't look like it, but if I wake up every morning think, okay, then what should I do? I cannot see for myself, I cannot see a better thing to do than to keep working with the people who are already starting to make this happen. Because change always seems impossible until it's done. And we know that there are tipping points. We know there are tipping points in the other system. There are also social tipping points.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I hope it's a still respectable thing to do. How does it work psychologically? I left my job at Oxfam to write a book about the new economic mindset that I think the world's needs, because going back to your earlier question, it's absolutely built on a huge inheritance and the work of decades, indeed centuries of economic thinkers whose work contributes to these ideas from Herman Daly's to Donella Meadows, from Amartya Sen. And I wanted to bring their ideas together and make them dance on the same page. And when my book came out in 2017, I was just amazed by the number of people, politicians and business leaders and community activists and teachers who showed up and said yes, we've been waiting to do this. And this gives a language and a visual to what I already want to do. So for me, psychologically, it's really energizing because what I'm discovering is there are so many people whose view isn't represented in the”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, by modelling it, by demonstrating it, by speaking this language, by showing that there are mares and companies and cities around the world that saying we're getting behind this. For me, the approach is to start building critical mass And is questioning the growth dependency of Europe. I think one of the reasons why is because they're seeing that some of Europe's leading cities, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Brussels, these cities are saying, yeah, we're engaging with donor economics because we want to focus on a vision of thriving. That's why I am going with what's coming up slowly from below. It starts to build a critical mass. I don't believe we're going to suddenly get top-down change and politicians are going to switch their narrative.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure, and partly, this is why I say this because I'm not a politician, and therefore I'm not constrained by that fearsome question that I will be politically hit sideways. I feel actually those of us who aren't politicians have all the moral obligation to speak to this alternative economics that makes actually should be the economics that's being taught. And students are flocking in universities wanting to learn this because they know it equips them for the future that's coming. But the idea that what I say should immediately be repeatable and defensible by one of today's politicians who are trapped in”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, that's not what I want. I want to thrive. I'm not interested in our position in the G7. And I want all G7 nations to come back with implant your boundaries.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We don't have to say we want to be the slowest growing economy in the G7. You say we want to thrive. We want, you know, you can mobilize and excite people by saying we want to bring back UK nature. We're going to rewild.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's why I wrote a book 21st century economic mindset because I cannot bear to know that students are going to university today and still being taught a deep presumption that high-income countries will obviously grow and that's obviously the goal and that the death of the living world”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Very real these days with Russia, Ukraine, China, the geopolitics of having a place at the table creates a collective action problem that every nation is continuing to pursue growth in order to keep up with its rivals or allies. To me, that's not an economic problem. That is a geopolitical problem. That's an international relations. I would love to see schools of government taking on. How are we going to get over that collective action problem? But to come back to the welfare state and to you were talking about taxation. I mean, in a country like the UK with a sovereign currency, the government spends money into existence. It doesn't raise money from taxes and say, oh, how much did we get this year? What can we do with it? The UK government spends money into existence, spends money into healthcare. So we can choose to spend money on whatever we value. So long as we don't overshoot the capacity of the economy to produce and therefore generate inflation. So to me this comes back.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because we have companies that are owned by shareholders who want to see an increasing dividend every quarter. So that forces companies to focus on growing rather than becoming. I talked to corporate finance law officers who say we want to become regenerative, sustainable. We want to pay decent wages through our supply chains. But we have to show every quarter that we're growing because we chased labor productivity. So as you're saying, if you have a non-growing economy in a structure where companies are trying to be more and more productive, you'll create unemployment and you'll get the unemployment line, which is huge political red flag and devastating people's lives. We're politically addicted, and I think the really big one actually politically is the due politics of it, right? No leader wants to lose their place in the G20 family photo. But if your nation stops growing while the rest keep going, you may be booted out by the next emerging powerhouse. So the geopolitics and its”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because we have created money, the current system of money we have, and let's talk about the UK particularly, is that commercial banks create money as debt-bearing interest, right? So it has to be repaid with more. So that's embedded in the way that we create money.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Definitely left wing and more socially-minded and green-minded, let me put in those very simple terms, politicians come to it and say, this resonates. And so the major principles are being regenerative of the living world. Actually, I think that appeals across the spectrum and being distributive by design.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm giving you the whole space. I know you are, but surely. I mean, which surely all politics should be about meeting people to human rights living within the means of this only known living planet in the universe? So I'm delighted that, say, in the Netherlands, it has had appeal across the political spectrum from the party for the animals to the Christian Democrats. And in fact, in the UK, I've been contacted by members from the Conservative Party, Liberal Democrats, Labour Party, Green Party.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And we dominate over nature. And it tells us implicitly that growth is the goal. So I was really frustrated by the economics I was taught. That's why I didn't stay on and I didn't want to be a PhD economist. I didn't feel pride in that name. I worked at the UN on the Human Development Report, which reframed economics in the work of Amartya Sen from putting the economy at the center of our vision to human well-being at the center of our vision. I worked for Oxfam for a decade. And then I had kids and became a mother. And then there was a financial crisis and the economists started saying, oh, we need to rewrite economics to reflect financial realities. And I thought, I'll be damned if we're only going to do it for that”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was almost unquestioningly about growth. We never there was never a moment where we ever said what is the goal, it's growth. Is that the right goal? What happens if it's not desirable, not feasible, not possible? We never question that. And now decades later, I speak to students in universities. It's the same. They are not being invited. I mean, let me say, there are a few exceptions. But the mainstream syllabus does not invite them. It starts with the market of supply and demand, which puts price at the center of our vision and then means we're talking about everything in monetary terms. That's a very political move. Why are we jumping to the market immediately? It tells us that humanity is rationally economic man. We're competitive. We're self-interested”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when I went to university and studied study economics, I was really frustrated by the syllabus because these issues were peripheral. You couldn't even study environmental economics. inequalities and the living planet I felt were at the edges of the system.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Partly because after the limits to growth came out and people were alarmed by it, a whole counter movement mobilized to discredit it, rubbish it, say it didn't make sense. It wasn't true. They got it all wrong. Actually, the latest plots show that we are on track for what they call business as usual. But let me come back to your earlier question. I mean, I studied economics at university because I wanted to learn the mother tongue of public policy. I was a teenager of the 1980s, so grew up seeing the famine in Ethiopia, a hole emerging in the ozone layer. I remember Frank Boff on nationwide saying there's something called the greenhouse effect, right? So I wanted to be part of tackling these things. And I thought if I learn economics, I'll have that mother tongue of public policy. I can help in that very earnest teenage way that's invaluable.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“or admired, and if he was still alive, I'd say well, Edward, well done. You know it worked. Now, please join the other team. Could you please help us unravel a hundred years of this propaganda so that people actually feel that they belong through community? Let's rebuild the commons. Let's rebuild the places we live and actually find value connection where it's real, which is in being needed and seen and belonging and respected as part of the community we're part of, of the work we do, and reducing this extraordinary consumer spent that we've grown up with.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, because he figured out, I think he took his uncle's psychotherapy and realized that our deepest desires are to be belonging, to be respected, to be admired, and he connected that to the latest phone, that jacket, this car. So we'll marketed these products as if this will make us feel...”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I do. And so I would say actually consumerism is one of the ways in which we're addicted to growth. It's one of the social lock-ins to endless growth because generations have believed that to do well means that we'll get a bigger house, that my kids could live in a bigger house, that they could fly further for a better holiday, that they could have more cars, right? So this consumption and the acquisition has been a very 20th century symbol of doing well. And I think Brennan's, Edward Brenays, played a huge role in that. He created a hundred years of propaganda, as he called it himself, to convince us that we transform ourselves by buying something more.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Slogan that doesn't work anymore. And citizens' assemblies are like the seeds of future politics. I know you're being playful and you're pushing back, but I wouldn't dismiss them. Political space is deeply democratic spaces where people are actually choosing to take a longer view and calling for radical politics.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the most catastrophic consequences on individual lives sincerely will come from the breakdown of the living world, whether it's the direct impacts of climate change or whether it's the indirect huge disruption to humanity when whole continents are on the move because where they have been born has become an uninhabitable or indeed the breakdown of trade when harvests fail around the world. So that is the real disruption that I believe we need to avoid because by that point it is out of human hands and we are responding to the breakdown of the planet. I completely agree with you though Rory that the scale of what's required is massive and it goes beyond and I don't I'm going to push back on you I'm not just offering a mere nice slogan I think how we frame economics really matters and I think growth is a really nice little”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Stop trying to minimize labor and max out on energy, minimize energy and material use and bring in more people. So there's a very labor-intensive, circular creative economy that can be created.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think that's true, and I think in the Netherlands actually they've realized their use of nitrogen. They're calling it nitrogen sealing. They're far too nitrogen intensive in their agriculture and they've literally got to reduce their national nitrogen use. And this then creates, it can create a very polarized national politics about between agriculture and between the urban areas. I think that's just the beginnings of a future. This is all to come. We are going to face huge pressures on resource use, on if we want to decarbonize and switch to batteries, the cobalt, the lithium. The prices of these materials is definitely going to rise and it's going to become very real. So I'm talking about let's prepare for that now. Let's take away the growth dependency. Let's create a circular economy that brings jobs back into the UK because you”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's happening. So, what's interesting to me is it's not happening at the national level. I'm not surprised, it's not happening at the national level. It's happening locally.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When the book came out, I was just immediately approached by counsellors, by mayors, by MPs actually, who said, well, how could we put this into practice? I want to do this. What would it mean to do this in my town, in my city, in my district? By teachers saying, this isn't on the syllabus, but how this is what the students should be learning. I'm going to teach it anyway. By companies saying we want to put this in practice in our company. So we set up an organization for people who already wanted to start doing it. The city of Amsterdam adopted it at the heart of their policy to become a circlist city in the height of COVID in 2020. Six weeks later, the city of Copenhagen voted to say actually we're going to explore what it would mean for our city to become. These are democracies. Brussels capital region, the sector of state for ecological transition. She said, I'm going to put this at the heart of our strategy. I want all of our civil servants to be learning this. It's happening at Glasgow. It's currently doing things for the question. It does sound”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I am because climate change is just one of what we can call nine planetary boundaries, one of the life supporting systems of our planet. And if we just go climate, climate net zero, we're being reductionist all over again. Let me put this back. So we set up donut economics action lab after my book, Don't Economics came out because...”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Indeed, there's companies coming to us at Donut Economics Action Lab saying this could be our logo. This is what we're for. We're not in business to max out profits. We're in business to sequester carbon.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Actually, putting the scale of planetary challenge, being open about it and making it central to our politics and talking far more openly about how deeply we need to transform our economies and all high-income economies need to transform together. So moving towards, for example, far more democratic ownership of enterprise, by which I mean rather than companies that are owned by shareholders that hold them to account every quarter to show that they've got growing profits, growing margins, growing market share, which drives growth in that business, what if we move towards companies that are owned by their employees, by the community, with nature on the board, and these kinds of companies are emerging, whether it's Patagonia, whether it's faith in nature. This is a different kind of enterprise that's possible to evolve, that can put not profit primacy, but its mission primacy.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think we could have a well, first of all, citizens' assemblies, I believe, are starting to actually advocate the kinds of policies that are required. I really want to flip it around to both of you, though, because I haven't heard you disagree with me. And if you agree with me, then the question is, how do we transform the political dialogue, the reality, the facing up to the scale that's required? And instead of carrying on with the narrative that is putting growth first and then promising that we can tuck some green inside it.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Move the growth dependency from our economies rather than hope and promise that it's going to be possible to carry on with GDP growth. So yes, in my agnosticism, I lean very much towards this this ain't going to deliver. We've got some decoupling and we need all the decoupling we can get, but we are not moving anything fast enough at the speed and scale required.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I don't think it's compatible with GDP growth, but you know what the future is unseen, and there are many different ways we can organize our economy. So I'm not going to definitively say it is not possible because all we have, all the empirical evidence comes obviously from the past. But the evidence that I see makes me deeply skeptical of that possibility. Whereas what I find in politics and in economics and economic advice to politics, it leans the other way. It leans in the direction of hope. It's too early to give up the possibility of decoupling. Now, when we lean into the hope and the possibility and the optimism and the kind of technological optimism, I find that ethically really problematic because if that optimism turns out to be false, when push comes to shove between green and growth, you can bet you know what's going to get the shove. It's going to be the green because we're structurally dependent on growth. And so I think it's actually an ethical obligation to remove.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not that it doesn't matter. Let's start by recognising that we are currently, we have economies in high-income countries, particularly let's focus, that are structurally dependent on endless growth. And if growth isn't going to be possible because we, as Rory's saying, we need to massively reduce our energy and material use. And that may not be compatible with growth. And if that's not possible, we need urgently smart policies and politics that starts to remove the structural dependency on endless growth.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“separate ourselves from that dependency, we need to take the growth dependency out of our economies. This is what I wish was being taught in every macroeconomics course in every university.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It would absolutely matter to go into what's technically defined as recession because, and let me come to the point of what I actually deeply mean about being agnostic about growth, it would mean an economy that can thrive without being utterly dependent upon endless growth. So I put it this way. We have an economy that needs to grow, whether or not that makes us thrive. And what we need is an economy that makes us thrive, whether or not it grows. And so actually it's quite radical to be agnostic about growth in a high-income country because it means we need to create our economy so it's no longer dependent on endless growth. As you just said, Alistair, it currently is dependent on endless growth. And if it doesn't grow, it goes into recession. And it's tragic, it's massive implications. People lose their jobs. We lose the funding, there's immediate knock-on effects. That's because our economies are structurally, financially, politically and socially dependent on endless growth. In order to separate...”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ah, okay, no, that's not that. Thanks for bringing that up. That's not why. When I wrote Donald Economics and I was arguing, let's move away from being addicted to growth to becoming agnostic about growth. One of the reasons was because I was thinking about countries around the world. I was trying to write principles that could be applied in many places. whether it's in the UK or in Turkey or Malawi. And I think we need to move away from thinking growth is the trajectory that matters to actually what matters is the dynamics of being regenerative, working with and within the cycles of the living world and being distributive so that value that's created in the economy is shared far more equitably with everyone who co-creates it. So to me, the fundamental dynamics become regenerative design and distributive design. And what happens to GDP is more like a consequence of pursuing those.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think then it comes down to how do you structure citizens' assemblies. Do you say how the Citizens Assembly, it'll be nice to hear your recommendations, or does a politician, government say, let's hold a citizens' assembly and let's actually commit to taking account of what the people of this nation are saying they want to happen. And let's put it into practice.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Totally agree. Many politicians would say I know what I need to do. I just don't know how to get re-elected when I've done it. And that's why I think you're seeing some of the most progressive places say let's hold a citizens' assembly. Let's use sortition. Let's bring together a randomly selected group around 100 citizens residents of our place. Let's introduce them to experts who can introduce them to the scale of this topic and see what they come up with. And time and again, what's coming out of these citizens' assemblies is that people who are not trying to get re-elected because they are citizens thinking of the long view, they come up with far more long-termist, progressive, and ambitious policies than, as you say, politicians feel they're able to.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You how the heck are you not going to go to the wall? Because we're going to the wall. And I want to flip that onus. The onus, I think, is on those who call for growth to explain how on earth this makes sense on this deeply destabilized planet”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Century brought because that was deeply dependent on fossil fuel energy and those days have gone. And I would love to know from your perspective how this comes into politics or unless do you disagree with what I'm saying that we need to massively reduce our energy use and our material footprint in this nation, in all high-income nations, to respect the rights of people worldwide. If you don't disagree with me, I'd love you to join me in thinking, how do you bring this into politics? You're both immersed in the world of politics. How can this become part of the political conversation? I've only ever heard two MPs, Caroline Lucas and more recently Clive Lewis, ever speak to challenging the growth mantre in politics and all other MPs are caught in it because it's so dominant that to dare to speak against it, the onus is on you as it is on me right now. You're asking me, Rory, to prove how we can utterly transform the world. Whereas if you stick with it, nobody asks you.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So again, I would put it in GDP terms because I think it gets too reductionist too quickly that we're going to move money like that. We need to in the UK live within our share of Earth's resources, which means we massively need to decarbonize our economy. But actually also we need to reduce our material footprint. How we do that in terms of its relation to economic activity is a separate transformation, is a separate innovation that we need to make. It's not about taking literally just taking GDP money from one pocket and putting it to other. What ultimately matters is energy and materials. Money is merely a means to having command over that. So we need to decarbonize and create a circular cyclical economy with massively reduced energy demand and can have very good quality lives within that. But I'm with you in terms of, it certainly doesn't, I don't believe we can continue to have the growth that the 20.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I want to speak first in the metrics of the earth, so we need to massively reduce our global carbon use, for sure, our global material footprint, and our excessive use of fertilizers, right? Let's start with the real metrics. GDP, money is an invented human measure, so I wouldn't want to speak of it in fundamental terms. We've got to come back within our pressure on the planet. Massive reduce of resource use. What does that mean for GDP? Globally, I don't anticipate that that means globally we can keep on growing, but it's the high-income countries where it's clearest that they need to move fastest. And that's why we come into this challenge of can we have green growth? I can't see, I'm really happy to talk more on that, but I can't see the feasibility of having the GDP that we've always wanted 2.5% a year, please, coupled with the unprecedented reduction at speed and scale in energy and material use that's required in high-income countries.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We're way over the carrying. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but we are so massively over the carrying capacity of the planet. Earth system scientists are just telling us again and again we are about to hit tipping points from which there's no return. So we're way over the carrying capacity of the planet. In terms of our ecological impact.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And we are massively overshooting our pressure on the planet and excessively using resources and energy. So we just face a completely different trajectory if we want to thrive and it's about reducing our overshoot of energy and resource use.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I would start by saying in those countries, whether it's Tanzania or Malawi or indeed Bangladesh or India, people who cannot meet their most basic needs. That is where you want to see the growth of their incomes and the growth of public services that serve them, right? So we absolutely want to see them rise so that they have the health and education and transport and decent housing to meet their fundamental human rights. So to me, that's where if anywhere in the world we want to see economic growth, that's where it's going to happen and it's got to be distributive so it's actually shared and it's got to be regenerative so it doesn't destroy the planet as it happens. That's a completely different situation from say the UK or any European or high-income nation. As we know, we are living in the richest countries ever in the history of humanity. These nations are richer than nations have ever been before.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yet, after university, I was what's called no DI fellow, so I worked in the Ministry of Trade and Industries of Zanzibar for three years. So I was going around working with Barefoot communities in the villages trying to see how I could support them in improving their livelihoods on which they were utterly dependent for their very most basic needs, yes.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I have, I'm hearing towns and cities and regions around the world they're starting to talk about thriving economy, living well within the means of the planet. This is to me the 21st century politics we need.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We call it cancer, and we move in as fast as we can to end it. We deeply understand that health lies in balance. If we can take what we deeply understand in the human body to the planetary body, and then move our political language, and it's an appealing political language, you can talk about thriving, right? It makes so much more sense in our lives.”
2023-06-12 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 22: Kate Raworth: Doughnut economics and thriving in balance · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source