YouSaid · the spoken record

Katharine Birbalsingh

lines on the record: 51
first: 2021-12-17
most recent: 2021-12-17
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Absolutely, and it's a huge impact on children's social mobility because children depend on their schools. If they're from disadvantaged families, they depend on their schools to be able to give them the opportunity. And I worry that there'll be another lockdown. I worry about so many of our families who are in jobs which weren't necessarily secure and then they lost those jobs because of this pandemic. The pandemic has had a devastating effect on children of backgrounds. And I just keep hoping that we'll finally get back to normal at some point, but I don't know when that'll be.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it means that I do feel a sense of duty that I have to do something. I'm in a position where other people can't do it. So many people say to me, thank goodness you're doing something. Thank goodness you're saying something. And so, yeah, people, I mean, they didn't just, they'd only leave me alone now. They're after me still. People are still trying to destroy me. But there's a difference between right and wrong, and we've all got to fight for what's right in life. We've got to in order to live a life that's worth living, and some people do it quietly, some people do it in a more loud fashion, but you want to be able to get to your deathbed and look back and think I contributed, I made the world into a better place.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Catherine, they're not. No, but look, I used to love loving and living in London because I was anonymous. Nobody knew who I was. I don't want the limelight, but I have a duty. I have a duty because I want the world to change. And because I've been cancelled once, I can do things. I can say things. And somebody has to say something. It first means I have a duty to do that because I cannot die at whatever age and think I could have done something and not have tried.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's more that I have a duty. You keep saying that I relish this and so on. Not necessarily. You know, I'd love to just be able to go and go to the cinema loads and just have a nice life with no one knowing who I am.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“About from Churchill. Success is never final, you know, something about failure, not being fatal, and it's courage that counts.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, like I say, a third of my Twitter followers are on the left. So I don't see what you are saying. I think there are a lot of people, all those teachers who come to visit us. Most of them are on the left. And they take our ideas. I get so many letters saying, thank you so much. I get so many private DMs on Twitter from teachers saying, thank goodness you're doing what you're doing. Keep on going. But what's interesting is that they have to do it privately. So it says something about...”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think you underestimate how I don't particularly like Twitter. I'm there for exactly that reason. That's where lots of ordinary people who I would never meet because I work in the inner city in London. A lot of those people are out of London living elsewhere. They have access then to the things I say. And I think you'd be surprised the number of people who very much support what I say. I don't see what you're saying. I don't think it's the case that lots of people hate me. No, no. There's a vocal minority, but I don't think that lots of people hate me at all.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You say that I brought people with me. In fact, when I was appointed, the feedback I had from number 10 was that they were amazed, there was very little negativity. I mean, there's obviously people on the fringes, but generally speaking, we get over 600 visitors a year to Michaela. And these are mainly teachers who've come, who have been convinced by the things that they've seen.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But that is happening. I mean, the fact is, that is happening. What isn't happening are the big elephants in the room. What isn't happening as a society is us talking about how can we better enable social mobility by championing the kinds of values and culture that are more likely to help these children succeed. In fact, it's worse. We are bashing those kinds of values and saying that they're wrong. And somebody needs to say something.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I don't mean Marcus Rashford good for him. I mean, great that he's doing things. But I don't think that we'll find in five, six, ten years' time that that will have enabled social mobility for huge numbers of people. What enables social mobility for people is giving them access to be able to open all doors for them. That's what you want. So children go to school in order to fulfill their potential. And if they're in schools where there is chaos, where there isn't teaching from the front, where the teacher is able to lead the learning, where the children are able to access the order and structure that I'm saying that they can thrive in, they're not going to be able to change their lives.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You just a few months ago. Change. The point is that you're suggesting we need to pull everybody down in order to make sure that we're all down here. So we're not going to learn Shakespeare because it's hard for children in the inner city to access Shakespeare.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But the only solution is to ban really high quality stuff. So ban Shakespeare, ban Latin, ban really complicated maths, because what we're doing is we're accepting that children who come from poorer families can't access that stuff.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But the only way you can improve the conditions for everyone is if everyone buys into these ideas. It's by individual changes.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that's more about, well, for instance, they came out with a report that said in the civil service in order to get promoted, you need to speak Latin by the water cooler. And I suppose what they meant was there are certain cultural phrases and ways of being that if you don't have, you'll find it difficult to get promoted. Well, that's the case in any job. Now, we can lament that and go on about it, or we can do something about it and make sure that our schools are equipping our poorest children to be able to compete with the richer ones.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“For me, I mean, look, the reason why I'm doing it is for exactly that reason. I can make a difference to my small community at the moment in our school. I want to be able to make a difference to a larger number of children and a larger number of families. And I think that by being able to shout about this stuff as best we can, obviously through analysis and research that goes on in the background, then yeah, I hope to make a difference”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, take how we all know that we should eat four to five vegetables a day, right? Fruits and vegetables. It became a national campaign. Everybody sort of knows that now not everyone follows it, but we know it. No one talks about technology in that kind of way. And I would really like to be talking about it incessantly so we get to a point where families are far more likely to know what works and what doesn't work.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I've got some ideas. I mean, I've always been keen on education, obviously. So, how do we get schools generally to be better? That's a key point. I'm also very interested in roots into the workplace where I find it can fall down when it comes to children of lesser ability in terms of what they can do, that it's much more difficult for them finding places and where they can go. And then there's also the early years, what should families be doing with their toddlers, for instance? That's something that in the day of technology is very hard because families can make the mistake of handing their child to your old smartphone and thinking that this is a good thing. And then later at four or five years old when you're trying to get them to read, the child doesn't really like reading and they don't know why. But they've kind of fixed it that way because they gave their child a smartphone when they were two.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But all we should be doing is talking about racism. It undermines the sense of self-worth that children can have in themselves that they desperately need to be able to change their stars and make something better of themselves.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't understand what's wrong with that. Why wouldn't we want all children to work hard and be kind? Why wouldn't we want them all going to excellent schools? Why wouldn't we want them all to have families who support their education and push them forward, expecting the most out of them, holding them to account when they get things wrong, celebrating when they get things right, and then being there for them? Do you know how many children I've known in my lifetime where their families just aren't there for them? And the ones who do have families who are there for them, who are just as poor as the ones who don't, are the ones who are able to really make something of themselves. Now that doesn't mean that we say the schools don't matter. I spent my entire life fighting to make education better and to make schools better. So of course the state has a part to play, but so do families have a part to play. And for us to insist”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm not saying we shouldn't analyze the way society works. Of course, we should. However, individuals make up society, or each of those individuals needs to take on board the right set of values so that they can make something of their lives.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know what? More than her and more than most people, I have totally changed the status quo when it comes to what is typically expected of inner city children. And I've done that for over twenty years. I've dedicated my entire life to changing their lives for the better. And that's a good thing.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I'm not suggesting that we all celebrate the existence of racism. I'm saying that we have to spend time concentrating on the elephants. If we never do, and all we do is say the problem is racism, the problem is racism, which of course, as we know, it's far more complex than that, then we're not allowing people to be able to take control of their own lives. But they think you are patronizing them.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“the outside world all the time, as I always say to the children at school There may very well be racism and sexism and so on, but you've got one life and you've got to grab it by the horns and you've got to do what you can with what you've got and that doesn't mean that you're not going to be oppressed and there won't be obstacles.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, and I would say that, I mean, obviously this isn't the case for all people on the left. I'm saying that there is a view for some of them where they feel that they own black people. They feel that they own the way we think. And the idea that there should be diversity of thought amongst black people is something they don't like. They feel they've bought their vote and we owe them. So I've been accused of betraying the left over and over again because how dare I not support the leftist cause? And the thing is that my views are quite complex. I mean, some views, you might call lefty, you know. The thing is, is that small sea conservatives, because I'm not talking about big Conservatives. Like I say, some of them shouldn't carry the name, but small sea conservatism is the thing that allows for so many to make the most of their lives, to live lives that have depth, that have real meaning to them, where you're not just blaming.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You say that I don't think so all I know are schools my whole life is education. I loved working with disadvantaged children I still do. I don't know how to do anything else, so I had to get back into education somehow.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, well, I spent three years trying to set it up, and because of the detractors it took a very long time, and there was no.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, I think you're thinking into a kind of middle class way we immigrants don't have time to think that all my parents are thinking our poor little girl is in trouble. Our poor little girl is going to be eaten alive and then she's going to lose her job and then how is she going to pay her mortgage? All my parents care about is they went halfway across the world in order to give their children a better life.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was sort of coming out. I say I voted Conservative for the first time and it was this big revelation and do you know, some months later a friend of mine sat me down, and she said to me I have something to tell you, Catherine I too voted conservative, and it was this weird kind of shame that we'd carried and we wouldn't even tell each other.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Gradual. And partly was the blog. And then over years, you start writing these things. And what happened was with the blog, lefties would come on and get very angry with me and how dare you write about Johnny's money being stolen and so on. And then conservatives would come on and say, oh no, we agree with you. And I kept saying to the lefties, look, I'm like you, I'm on the good side. I'm a good person. I'm on the left. And the conservatives would say, I don't think you are on the left, actually. I think you'll find you're actually conservative. And it took me a very long time. So when in 2010 I went to the party conference,”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My teaching, in the inner city, so what happened was I went into teaching because I thought I believed all the normal things there isn't enough money, white racist teachers are preventing black boys from succeeding, all of that stuff. Anyway, I went in, and then I looked around and I just saw the evidence. I saw what was happening around me and I thought this isn't actually happening. I'm seeing some very hardworking, dedicated white teachers who are doing the best job that they can, and that, yes, of course, one can always want money, more money, but actually it's the power of bad ideas that are doing the worst damage here.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Pretty radical. Maybe, but I don't think I went along to lots of meetings. I mean, I used to read, I think it was Living Marxism rather than Marxism today, one of them. And yes, I was a lefty. There's no question.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I mean social. The things I said social conservatism, belief in traditionalism, belief in the family, belief in personal responsibility and duty towards others.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, I think they think that my small sea conservatism is quite like theirs, because it used to be the case that families who vote on the left could be small conservatives, because I often think that the Conservative Party should have the name conservative taken away from them, because they're not that conservative.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, he's very much, very much a man of the left as is my mother. I grew up in a very leftist household. My father grew up without any shoes, very poor family in Guyana, British Guyana, my mother's Jamaican, and they, like so many immigrants before them, moved halfway across the world in order to give their children a better life, and they came first to England, because that was the mother country, and then eventually they went to Canada, and that's where I spent the first fifteen years of my life. We always used to come back to England during the summers because my father was a great fan of cricket, because in those days the West Indies would bash England, and he took great delight. And we would all sit and watch how the West Indies would thrash England. And so I grew up in a Caribbean household eating jerked chicken and so on and just very much that immigrant thing.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it was, I mean, I can't really remember details, but it was very difficult for the school and very difficult for me because I had just become so toxic and it was very hard for the school as well to be able to make that work. Oh, so you sympathize with the...”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that's what's interesting. I do think it's because I'm a black woman and I stay educated and I work in state education all my life. Therefore, I'm sort of owned by the left. So they weren't as articulate as what you just said at all. They just got very upset. And I'd be saying But look, I'm working with these sorts of children that you say you want to help and I've been doing a great job all my life.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's interesting, you put it that way because I don't think anyone ever said that. I mean, at least I didn't say that to my face. What they'd say were things like we be trying to set up our school, having a parent's evening, and they would come and stand amongst the parents and start shouting at me about how I'd betrayed them. They would betray.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I knew I was being naughty, so remember, I did know I wasn't allowed to sort of say these sorts of things. They wouldn't say that.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wasn't politically aware enough to know any of that. I mean, if it had been me now, I might have had those thoughts. I just thought, oh gosh, they like what I'm saying. That's nice I suddenly started thinking Oh my goodness there's my blog and oh my goodness what is all this press remember I'm not someone I didn't know any of the press or the politicians I didn't even know that there were really political conferences I mean I was a teacher who marked my books I mean I didn't really you”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I was surprised. You'll see me sort of smiling awkwardly every time they clap because I'm taken aback and I'm thinking, oh, I don't know what to do right now. But yes, they did like it. And that was the thing. They then stood, you see, and gave me a standing ovation. And then that's when the press turned towards me. I had not expected that to happen”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Speech would change your life. I knew I was being naughty. I knew I was saying things you're not meant to say elephants. You know, I was doing that. But no, I had no idea what I was doing. I was very naive. They told me that it would go out on BBC Parliament. And I thought, well, nobody watches that. So I'll be fine. I mean, and I kind of didn't really think that once it's been recorded, it can obviously be replayed. Now, that sounds completely bonkers now, but you need to remember that in 2010, our understanding of tech and so on, blogs, it just wasn't what it is now. Everything was, we were in a different place.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. Then in those days, I'd sort of tell stories about how little Johnny came to school and had his money stolen or got beaten up and how sad that was. And you don't want to get anyone into trouble, and so you write anonymously, and at the time there were various people who were reading my blog, including Michael Gove and Boris Johnson, I didn't know that. Obviously, I was just writing. There was no Twitter, there was no Instagram. Life was very different in the early two thousands.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, there's lots of elephants in the room that we never want to talk about. We don't want to talk about the importance of culture, the importance of small Conservative values expecting children to take personal responsibility, having a sense of duty towards others, understanding the importance of family. All of these things are pushed under the carpet these days and we never talk about them. And we just talk about, well, what is the government doing? And all of those things are good. I mean, I'm not saying government shouldn't do anything. I work for the government. I've worked in state education all my life. But there is so much that values and culture, they are so important and they are massive elephants.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's a good question. Well, because, okay, so the blog was called to miss with love, like to serve with love, and everybody will know the book. And then there was the film with Sidney Poitiers. And I called myself Miss Snufflepagus. You'll remember Snuffleopagus from Sesame Street. And he was the big mammoth-type elephant who was Big Bird's friend. And no one could ever see him because he was the elephant in the room. And so I called myself Mustafaus, which over time became Miss Snuffy. And I've sort of kept that, and that's what I am on Twitter.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's exactly right. And when you were saying about me being this strict disciplinarian and I feel that there's a culture of excuses and so on, that's in our society, not just in our schools. In 2021, we as a people are letting ourselves down and letting our children down because we're not expecting enough of them.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I wish that were the case, but sadly because of the admissions and the way it works, we get lots of children who haven't chosen us and lots of families who haven't chosen us. And sadly, that means there's lots of families who are desperate to get their children in who cannot get their children in. But that's just the madness of school admissions in the country. So, no, I don't think that's the case. It's not self-selecting because it can't be. But once I tell you, all the children will say things like, I found it really hard to begin with, but then I got used to it. So that's why I say I'm not imposing anything. They themselves are self-regulating. Often, for instance, I will walk down the corridor and class will be waiting to go into the classroom, and they're standing there in silence. There's no teacher around. They're just there. They've just got used to it.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, in the moment they might push back, and then they get a detention, but all of our children would tell you that they're better off for having strict discipline.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, that's exactly right. The children, especially if you come from a chaotic background, you're desperate to be somewhere that's orderly instructed. Some of the children try and stay late deliberately because they'd rather be in that kind of environment rather than go home. And when you say imposing it, I'm not imposing anything. The children themselves love it. If you come to our school and eat lunch with the children and have a tour, they'll all tell you how they're so much safer here than they have felt elsewhere and how they really enjoy that. They like it.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, especially in the inner city, I understand that not every school needs that. But in the inner city, the alternative is children getting into fights in the corridors, screaming and shouting and running and shoving places where the shy children are terrified to walk down the corridors. Not only that, but it means you lose enormous amount of lesson time because it takes so long to get them into the lessons. And when you're trying to catch children up at eleven years old who have a reading age of a six-year-old, you need as much time in the lessons as possible. So it's about loving them, you see, and high expectations.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, all of that, really. It's a bit funny. I think people imagine that I walk up and down the corridors with whips and chains when actually I'm often in my office with meeting teachers. What does strict mean is what I'd say. It means immersing children in love and keeping your standards high with regard to your expectations, both in terms of discipline and in terms of what you can teach them. That's what strict is. And the children always prefer the strictest teachers at school. Think about who you liked at school. It was the ones that had the highest expectations of you.”
2021-12-17 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Katharine Birbalsingh One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source