YouSaid · the spoken record

Kathleen Sebelius

lines on the record

93

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2017-11-22

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2017-11-22

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1

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1. “They're not charity cases, but for me it was also a risk taking. Association that I felt I could argue on a lot of time for the good guys. And it also taught me a lot about the legislative process. And I knew I liked it and I knew I could do it. But I was working 60 hours a week and traveling all over the country. My kids were little and my husband wasn't. The wheels were coming off the wagon and running for the legislature in a seat that was ten minutes from the Capitol was really a great part-time job.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

2. “I did Actually, I learned a lot. I ran the trial lawyers association in that capacity testified in the legislature and organized their legislative activity. But I also, you know, there's a lot of similarities between trial lawyers and politicians, I think, where you make the best case you can, you put your evidence forward, you win or lose, and you move on. There's a certainty to the argument. There's a social justice mission. The trial lawyers that I knew were representing people who were suing big corporations and banks, often consumers who had been harmed, and they were bringing a case where if they lost, they didn't get paid. If they won, they took a portion of the settlement. But this is a group of lawyers who say, you know, we're in this with you because”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

3. “And that was the life Gary had, which was very different than what I had done. Because my dad didn't, I mean, he was only in Congress, as you say briefly, but also I was in college. And so were my brothers by the time he went to college. So it wasn't like we had an absent dad.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

4. “It was very tough. So we had very different approaches, and Gary was really not very enthusiastic when I finally said maybe I should run for a state legislative seat. He was terrified that I would leave and I would be gone. And we really had to walk through that I was not. His father, I was more my father. I was really not doing this to leave the family. It was to really become connected. And in Kansas, the legislature was a part-time job. And I could actually be home. My kids were two and five. I lived in the capital city. It was actually a much more family-friendly job than what I had been doing. So I kind of ran for the legislature to stay home.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

5. “No, Gary's dad, so Gary grew up in the very northwest corner of the state. His dad was in the state Senate for twelve years, which meant he left on a Sunday night, and he would come back on a Friday night and then go to townhome meeting. So he was gone during the week. When Gary was in grade school and high school, and then he went to Washington, and they moved to Washington, but his mom basically kept a home front in Kansas.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

6. “Yeah. And it was very tangible. I mean, I knew exactly what he did. We were taught about it in school. We could follow it in the newspapers.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

7. “Most of my friends had no idea what their fathers were doing. They walk out the door, disappear, we'd do class trips to city council. People could watch my dad. Now they would say to me all the time, my father would never vote for your father.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

8. “Jack Illigan from Ohio. Yes. So Gary thought initially that I was just making these very strange comments and why would I talk about his father being in Congress? Because he had no idea we had that in common. What we later learned, which became very important to both of us, was that the family approach to politics was wildly different. partially through the mothers. Gary's mother hated politics and she talked about Keith being gone and leaving and being absent. And that became a very difficult part of her life. My mother was the ultimate cheerleader and supporter. How important the work he's doing, how we can get involved. My dad wanted us all to know what he was doing. And, you know, politics is really tangible as a kid. I kind of knew where he went to work. I could watch it in the newspaper. I could figure out what he was doing.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

9. “Actually, we had some very funny early conversations because I knew his father was in Congress. He had no idea who my father was. And so I tried to commiserate with him, only to find out later.”

   2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

10. “He is, he is his father was in the state senate and then in Congress. In Kansas. In Kansas as a Republican. So we have a mixed marriage, but Gary was always far more liberal than his dad.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

11. “But I really didn't ever think I'd be the candidate. I just thought I would be involved in politics. When I married my husband, who I met him, I went to college in Washington.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

12. “I never really saw myself as a candidate, but I knew politics was something that I loved. I actually got to be the girl in the room. So I Adored my dad, and I would sit in on meetings and I would hang out at these gatherings, which mostly were men. I learned a lot, I heard a lot, I saw a lot of activity along the way. And at some point along the way, I did actually figure out that my mother, who was amazing, wonderful, strong, tenacious, supportive, she really had the lousy side of the bargain. I mean, she had four kids in this household and this often absent husband. And he got to stand up in front of big crowds and they would clap their hands and write checks and he got to go to dinners and I thought, okay, if I have to be one of them, I want to be him. You know, that looks pretty fun.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

13. “Lost by a tenth of a percentage point. They didn't call the election for three days. And in fact, at midnight on election night, the former governor, Jim Rhodes, who ran against him, came back for a second two year two term stint. Jim Rhodes conceded at midnight. And at that point, we knew because we were looking at the numbers coming in that he had the percentage he needed out of Northeastern Ohio, which was the Democratic stronghold, but he didn't have the turnout. So that while he was getting 65% of the vote, the vote numbers were down enough that it was going to be very close.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

14. “He never lost sight, though, of social justice issues and racial equality and income inequality. He felt that being in government was a great way to try and balance the economy. And he took some very unpopular positions, but then felt as his educator background taught him to do that you went out and educated people about why you were doing what you were doing. And if you explained it well enough, if people understood why we needed a tax, what a difference it would make in their lives, then they would respond.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

15. “Well, he was a man who was, I think, driven by all the right reasons. He wanted to get things done. He was very impatient, clearly running all these races. It wasn't to be in office. It was to do.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

16. “Elon Mark Shields was his campaign manager That was when Mark was doing. And that's how Peter and Mark met. They met in'68 when Bobby Kennedy was killed. They both showed up in Ohio about a week apart when my dad was running for the Senate and said we both need a candidate and it's you. And they worked on that campaign together and then Mark came back to run the gubernatorial campaign.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

17. “Declared a fire hazard. I mean, that was really so much oil and gas on the top of it. You could not, it was against the law to light a cigarette anywhere near the banks of the Cuyahoga because it would burn. And he just felt that an income tax was a missing piece of the Ohio economy. And not only did they pass it in the legislature, he first of all campaigned on it. I mean, imagine in this day and age someone campaigning for office saying, I'm going to install an income tax. He had it pass through the legislature, which was a battle, but they did it. But then the legislature, in their infinite courage, decided they would give themselves an out and put it on the ballot. So he had to run another statewide campaign a year after he'd been elected governor. And Ohioans voted 60, 40 for an income tax.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

18. “He did, which again made him wildly popular, but Ohio was one of the richest states in the country. And about 47th to 50th in every service. Schools were crumbling. They had no mental health services at all. They had no environmental protection. In fact, the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland famously caught on fire a couple of times and was declared.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

19. “Ran for governor and as my brother famously said, which was the quote in the Cincinnati Enquire when somebody said to John, why is your dad running for governor? He said, because he's run for everything else. And he needs an office. But he was successful.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

20. “Oh no, God, no. I think it was just an election where, I mean, it was a narrow loss. Ohio still wasn't quite there. There were people who were angry at him for taking out Lausie. It was a tumultuous time. And I mean, it wasn't a landslide of any kind. And Humphrey was losing. So when you have the presidential ticket going down, it's very hard if you're running as a Democrat in Ohio to pull it out. Humphrey was mad at him also the whole time. He didn't have a lot of national support and the national ticket was going to lose to Nixon.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

21. “It is, and he had a great Irish wit, and he couldn't quite filter what he said on a regular basis. It was good lessons for me. I learned some things about winning and losing. And I decided I never wanted to lose. It's painful”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

22. “So, my dad reminded him that in 1948, Hubert Humphrey as the mayor of Minneapolis had led the delegation to go visit Harry Truman and say, you need a civil rights plank. Truman said it's a bad idea, we will lose the Southern Democrats, and Humphrey said you don't have to do anything. The votes are here to do it. You get out of the way, but you need to distinguish yourself from Dewey, and the Democrats have to stand for civil rights. And my father reminded him of that conversation 20 years later and said, this was you. You know what this looks like. We have the votes on the floor of the House. We have the votes to put the Peace Planck in.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

23. “Here in Chicago, we got into Chicago and it was clear that there was going to be real trouble. And my dad called my brothers who were coming to join us and said, you may not come to Chicago. You have to stay out of this city. But the peace fight was underway and a number of them, including my father, had drafted the peace plank to try and put in the Democratic platform and went to see Hubert Humphrey and had a conversation with Hubert Humphrey about the need to have a distinction between the Democrats and the Republicans, and the distinction should be that the Democrats needed to stand up against the war in Vietnam. And Humphrey said, I don't think this is a good idea. And Lyndon Johnson, the ghost of Lyndon Johnson, was hovering, and he, I think, was afraid.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

24. “You talk about 48. One of the things I remember going to the convention of 68 with my father, who was at that point the...”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

25. “He narrowly lost, and this was a very bizarre race. I mean, it's a thousand years ago, but a guy named Bill Saxby, who actually wanted to be governor. Was the sacrificial lamb in the race because nobody was going to beat Frank Lausie. So they teed up a guy and basically said, if you run and the Republicans had said to him, if you run in this race, then we will all support you in the governor's race down the road two years later. But we need somebody to run against Laoshi, and it's you. My dad, who actually wanted to be governor, ended up to the surprise of everyone winning the Senate race.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

26. “Was a significant war opponent from that moment on. And part of it was inspired by his two sons, who he just felt would be cannon fodder and it would be a terrible mistake.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

27. “Became the initial signers of the bombing halt in Vietnam. So it had a negative effect. It wasn't one President Johnson intended, but my father very much.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

28. “I did. Were you campaign very well? And he very much was involved with the anti war group. When he had been in Congress in 64 It was in 1965 when Lyndon Johnson decided that one of the ways to gather support for the war effort was to ask all the Democrats who had won who were veterans to go to Vietnam. And there was a large contingent of people, including my dad, who spent 10 days in Vietnam. And I remember that trip very well, and I remember him coming back. My brother is 15 months older than I am, and I have a brother 360 days younger than me. They both were, one was a senior in high school and one was a sophomore in high school. I was a junior, and he came home and said, you absolutely cannot go to Vietnam. I will do anything I can to make sure that this never happens. There is something very wrong here. We're being lied to, this war is wrong, and he, about half of the contingent who went to...”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

29. “And he had served twice as governor, two terms as governor, and I think he was in his second or third term in the United States Senate. He was anti-union. He basically was the polar opposite of my father in terms of beliefs on social issues. And that's why he was very, very popular as a Democrat. He held a seat. And my father felt very strongly that he should be challenged in a primary. Everybody thought he was totally crazy, but people had told him that for years and years and years. And as he said, I think they did an early poll and the polling showed that he had 8% of the vote and Laosi had 92%. He said, we're in. You know, it's a go. That's all I need to see. That's absolutely true.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

30. “The race against that was the race against Taft Bob Taft had a seat that was an at large seat. My father had the seat in Cincinnati that hadn't been Democratic since I think the Civil War. And in the Johnson landslide, he won, and Bob Taft won, and then Ohio in the redistricting lost the at-large seat. So they both ended up in the same congressional district in 1966.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

31. “And it just made her mad. I mean, she just said, These people are wrong, you know, and but it was kind of shocking to them that it was that deep and that personal. But he believed very much in social justice. He was an early anti-war believer. He got elected to serve several terms on city council and got elected to Congress in 1964.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

32. “He was involved with a lot of ministers and a lot of people in the community around breaking apart the racial barriers in Cincinnati, which made him pretty much of an outsider in the town where he had grown up. I remember my mother talking about attending a wedding at one point. At this point, he'd probably been on city council for a couple of years. And she talked about going to this wedding with people they had all grown up with at the Hyde Park Country Club, which my grandfather had helped to found. And people were so angry at my father that no one would sit with her at the table. My dad had gone to the bar with some friends and came back to find her all by herself.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

33. “Well, I remember I'm not sure I remember the first city council campaign. I remember shortly after that he was very involved in trying to put together a Democratic Party so there were people who would come to the House and talk about party building, which was kind of laughable because there wasn't a party at all. He had been inspired by Adelaide Stevenson. He'd heard Adlai Stevenson speak and said I'm a Democrat, I want to go volunteer for the Democratic Party only to find out that there was a Democratic Party. So he put together a Democratic Party, first in Cincinnati and then began to grow the party, always involved in social justice issues. He'd been educated by Jesuits. He felt very strongly that Cincinnati was still tied to much to the slavery days of the South.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

34. “There were he ran for city council when I was five, and at that point that there wasn't even a Democratic party in the city of Cincinnati, so he had to run as what was called the charter right, which was sort of the breakaway from the, there were the Republicans and everybody else. And he ended up much to everyone's surprise, including his, being successful. The only newcomer elected. And I think that began his career as an outsider and a rebel.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

35. “Well they went to the same school they kind of knew the families of each other. They didn't really date though as kids and somewhere in the college years they got to know each other again and ended up married to one another. Rest”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

36. “Now he was on the deck of a destroyer about six weeks later, and I said to him later, why did you choose the Navy? He said, well, we had a sailboat in Michigan. And I thought I'd be on the water.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

37. “He did, he, as he used to say he went from his nice perch in the University of Notre Dame, when the campus recruiters came across campuses in those days and said to the senior class if you agree to go to officers training school, you can accelerate your graduation to January rather than May, which he did. Did you end up...”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

38. “That's right. That's right. But my dad was the son of a successful businessman, my grandfather and his father before him ran Catholic funeral homes. They were doing very well. My grandfather was on the board of Procter& Gamble. He was on the board of Kroger's, which is a Cincinnati company. His oldest son, he hoped would follow in his footsteps as a businessman and a city leader and my dad surprised his father by saying first he didn't want to be in business at all. He wanted to be a teacher. And secondly, he thought he would run for elected office, much to the shock of my grandfather.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

39. “My mom's father was just a very popular politician, looked out for folks, but my grandmother hated politics. So he stayed as a judge and beloved judge and lawyer. My father...”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

40. “and lost, but it was kind of a great tale of America that the grandson of the maid and the grandson of the president were actually contesting each other in a race for the United States Congress. And they both were incumbent congressmen at the time.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

41. “Well, not quite sure, but the census in those days recorded the family members who lived in the house, and then they recorded the servants who also lived in the house. And there were my grandmother and her sister in the home of William Hartaff before he became president, and a hundred years later my father ran against the grandson of the president. Right.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

42. “She did. She and her sister, Bridget and Mary Hannigan, came from Ireland, were put on a boat at fifteen and seventeen by their parents and ended up in Cincinnati, we're not quite sure about that. Yeah, that happened.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

43. “Well, it actually starts with my grandfather, who would have been probably the most successful politician in the family, not my father's father, but my mother's father, who was beloved and was an elected judge. In Cincinnati, from Cincinnati, Ohio. Cincinnati, Ohio, both my parents born in Cincinnati. Three of my grandparents were born in Cincinnati.”

    2017-11-22 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 193 - Kathleen Sebelius · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source