YouSaid · the spoken record

Katy Hessel

lines on the record: 38
first: 2024-09-26
most recent: 2024-09-26
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“I think, I mean, the book really sort of spans globally, and we go into so many different, you know, whether it's 19th century Japan or we look at incredible African-American sculptors of America in the 19th century or quilt makers especially. I mean, I've tried to sort of make it as diverse and insectual as possible. I was very conscious about that, especially because when we think about 50 years ago with the women's liberation movement as brilliant as it was, it was the kind of, as Howardina Pindel told me, it was the white women's movement. And so I think it's very important to be conscious about having all those different perspectives.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The reactions and the artistic response to that work, people making work out of what they saw hadn't been served. So I think, did you write that there was only one woman of colour? Yeah, so then there were lots of other versions made to embrace it just, it was such a lovely kind of starting point that felt like that piece of work. I think so. And I think actually it's really, like I was saying, it's really important to question what you're looking at. And actually, if race is an issue here, then we need to address that. And also it's the fact that, like you say, it's a springboard into creating your own version of, and people have made their own version of dinner parties all around the world and continue to do so. Who do you want to go for? Oh,”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The size of this room, there's triangular construction, and it's kind of based on a minimalist like table, but it's triangular because it wants to award everyone a seat at the table without being hierarchical. And what she's done is she's given nameplaces and goblets and cutlery and ceramics to all these women from our history, whether it's Emily Dickinson or Artemis Jenski or George O'Keefe or Virginia Wolf. And I love the fact that she's kind of claiming back that those sort of medium like embroidery or ceramics that were sort of very much dismissed as being domestic and you just think it doesn't have and even if workers on a small scale that doesn't matter it can still be great and powerful. I think it's this idea that is it not what does greatness have to be and so yeah I think there are so many ways that women have kind of reclaimed that especially through textile or something as well What I loved when you wrote about that is when you also included”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Know motherhood is one of the most popular subjects in art, yet we always sort of think of it as the kind of Madonna and child, which is not necessarily by a woman artist. I think that so many women made extraordinary paintings of motherhood. I mean, I think of the feminist movement in the 1970s, a sculptor called Singa Nengudi. She'd just given birth and she created these amazing sculptures, which made out of stockings and tights. And she filled them with sand and created all these different constructions and actually worked with a performance artist to work with this sculpture. And I thought it was such a kind of incredible portrait of a woman's body that contracts and expands so many times in our lives. I thought that was very powerful. My gosh, so many. You know, I think of someone like Judy Chicago who created the dinner party in the 1970s, which is this extraordinary, it's probably about”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So please music already got a shout out. I look forward to the story of music without men. Hi, Katie Hesson. I'm asking this as a frazzled mother of three at home in a house that people gork at because a famous woman died there. So I'm just asking about a sense of place in women's art because obviously the women in the home is such a cliche but you must have seen some incredible works by women. Showed one in terms of bringing to life around the kitchen table, just wanted. Oh my gosh, I mean, there's so much in terms of”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What's exciting is there's this amazing account on Instagram called The Black History of Art made by this girl called Alayo Akenkubbe, and she was at Cambridge University and she made this account because she didn't study any black artists at Cambridge. And I think they've actually really, what, three years and three years. And so, but actually it's thanks to people like her who was 21 at the time who said actually I'm not standing for this. I want to learn about this stuff. And actually as a result, they've really taken on board what she's created. And I love the fact that it's such an interesting thing, isn't it? Like how do you actually, what is the kind of key to successful activism? And it's this idea that, okay, if you're not going to teach me, I'm going to go do it over here on my own, and then you're going to come back and you're going to realize, actually, you're just missing out on great art. That's the thing. I mean, it's just boring otherwise. What was that account called again? A black history of art. It's very good. Great, thank you. Yes?”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Let's find the And another one we've spoken about galleries, but how does the education system need to change to incorporate women artists into the canon? That's a great question. I think, you know, lots of teachers come to my talks and they all seem so, you know, they tell me how they talk.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, definitely. Oh my god. I've been one of your 10 next books. Well, yes. I mean, my next book is about actually the ancient world, sort of. And so I've been really interested in sort of going back as far as possible. How far back are you going? To the Greeks, which I've been sort of learning classics for the last year and a half. But medieval 100%, I mean, there's a fantastic artist called Hildegard of Bingen, who was a composer, a sort of everything you could think of. She was a nun, an abess, an artist, and she created the most extraordinary illuminated manuscripts. And so I would love to do that. And I think, you know, what's so exciting is the British Library are just about to open an exhibition about medieval women. And so hopefully I'm going to learn a lot there. And I definitely want to go back as far back as possible. I mean, it's just a sort of case of does this art exist? And if it does.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't think we should have that in a way. But I think also what we can do is just make sure we're really conscious about what we are promoting. You know, for the first time ever, we've had a woman director of the TATE, Maria Balshaw, and she's been there for about six years, and she's completely revolutionized it. I mean, the fact that you have someone at the top makes such a difference. You know, there's never been a female director of the RA or the National Gallery. And why we still have 1% of artists who are women? Maybe that might adhere to it. It's not to say that we should get rid of them all, but it's to say that we need to be conscious about that. Got one on the live stream, the book dates from 1500. Are you tempted to go earlier medieval?”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a really interesting question because I also don't know if I wrote the story of art without men, but it's really what I want this book to do is to make sure that maybe if a written version of this that's coming out next year, but I want sort of kids to grow up knowing that these people existed. And I don't want also this to just be their education. I think that I want them to understand that we should always look further than what we have seen. And I think, you know”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, there is, you know, I think it's a really interesting question. There are a few museums around the world who do that. The National Museum of Women and the Arts in Washington, D.C., which is a phenomenal museum. Fan Moujan in south of France, which is just opened. And then the Murray Edwards College in Cambridge, which is the women's art collection. I think that, you know, I mean, it's”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People might have heard of the Renaissance. They might have heard of Impressionism or Pop art, but they might not know what it is. And so it's saying, okay, well, let's all have a look together and then let's have a look at the women who contributed to it. So I think I would start in a different place. And, you know, I mean, if I could write this book ten times over, I would. So maybe I will.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It, which is a kind of very Western focused art history structure. I mean, I've tried to sort of disband it as much as possible. But I think what made me question it was this idea that if you start with the Renaissance, then where are you going to end up? So maybe I'd start differently and I'd start somewhere else all over the world in a different place than Europe. And I think that that's what I want to do kind of going forward is not kind of follow that structure. I do think that this book was very much written in response to Gombrich's book and in a way what I hope to do was three things with this book which is sort of break down the gender imbalance in art is to kind of eliminate these hierarchies between art forms and then thirdly write in an accessible way that I hope anyone who's not even if you've never even been in a cider museum before don't worry you can totally read this book but I guess what I wanted to do is sort of hold the hand of as many people as possible which is why I did it in this style because people might have heard of this”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I love that idea that you don't have to have these kind of showy whatever. You can make beautiful art out of something small and imperfect. And so I think it's always a kind of, I don't know, I see it as a kind of utopian thing, but it didn't last forever, but it was extraordinary while it did. set up so much of what we know of art education today We're going to go to questions in a minute, but I wanted to end by asking you in the new chapter at the end of the paperback, you talk about how if you wrote the book again you would maybe have a different structure, one that was less chronological or that followed a sort of patriarchal arts history structure, not sure how to phrase it, what would you do different if you were going to do it again? I think, you know, I wrote a new chapter for the paperback and I have taken this book around the world with me and so many questions come up about the structure in which I wrote.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sort of liberal arts colleges for experimentation and they, you know, there were no hierarchies between teachers and students, no hierarchies between race. I mean, you know, they admitted so many students at that time who couldn't get jobs or teaching jobs or were allowed to art schools. And so it was this really kind of incredible place. Einstein was on the board and Buckminster Fuller would come and teach. And that was all sort of thanks to people like Joseph and Annie Albers who were kind of saying everyone could be part of it. And they had to sort of build the school from scratch. They had to cook the meals. And in a way what it gives you is this incredible kind of life experience into the fact that there should not be all these kind of hierarchies and these establishments. Of course everyone should be welcome. And Annie Alba's always talked about this idea of learning through doing. And so if you have, you know, a sync plug and a chain, then you can make a sculpture out of it.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of those interesting schools where it was kind of utopian and it was freedom and a new world and you were making these new kind of forms and everything. But actually banished women to the weaving workshop and would have let them do architecture or anything. And so they're like, oh my God, I sort of resurfacing these ideas. But then Annie Albers, who wasn't happy that she was in the weaving workshop, actually was like, okay, if this is what I've got, then I've got to make do with it. And actually what she did was create these incredible...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Are being torn down because I think in recent years, I mean, the barbican just had an amazing show about textile art, and we see how political and groundbreaking textile art has become as well and the different ways, inventive ways that women have used it, and men as well. But it's, you know, it's a sort of medium that has a deep political subtext in the struggle of the last 500 years, essentially. And so it's much sort of more than makes the surface, I think. Well, speaking of textile, that's obviously, well, that's what I always knew Annie Albus for, but I had no idea, so I read your book that her and her husband Joseph Albus had done really wonderful things for helping more young female artists get into, well, get into the art world. How did they work to do that? Yeah, so they were this amazing German Jewish couple who were sort of very much part of the Bauhaus. And actually, the Bauhaus is one of the one”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“portraits, all these different things. And then, I mean, it's just so unfair because they obviously could have done it, but it just were actually restricted. And it was almost like they were set up to fail in a way. I mean, you think of the Royal Academy of Arts in London, which opened in 1768. You know, they actually banned embroidery and sort of craft-based mediums because they didn't sort of see it as high art. You know, it was all about painting and sculpture and had to be marble. But who can make that? Who can afford marble? Patrons weren't necessarily going to commission women to do that. This idea of like you have to understand the human anatomy, all these different things. And so I think this idea of the fact that what women can do is seen as lowly and sort of not high class or not this, I think is very unfair. And so I think what's amazing now is that hopefully those sort of hierarchies”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Write so interestingly about how women were not allowed to go into the studios where there were male models. So they never painted from life and there's that wonderful painting where you say that the man is very feminine in appearance because the artist herself had never been allowed to draw an actual man. They were only allowed to do still lives, weren't they? Yeah, little dogs. Yeah, it's interesting. So many of that. I mean, women were so hindered in what they could do, they were so restricted. But what's amazing when you sort of see them all together is what they did from that. And they said, okay, well, if you're not going to let me in the live room, which is going to enable to create these kind of grand multi-figured works, then I'm going to paint what I have around me. But if I'm going to paint a still life, I'm going to inject 12 self-portraits hidden under the goblet or something, or I'm going to change this up and actually include all these different lands.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, I think, for example, in pre-Raphaelites, there were lots of women artists, but there were also lots of women artists who were models. So when you think of Malaysophilia of sort of dying in the struggle, that's how they became artists quite a lot, isn't it? They kind of go in by being a model and then they could, they had to take those circuitous routes. Totally. And it was a way in Biep for them to get access to training and everything. But Ophelia is an extraordinary artist called Elizabeth Siddle, who was just as part of the pre-Raphlite movement. And I think when you look at that, you sort of see it in a slightly different point of view. I mean, it's a really interesting question. And I think that it's exciting to know who these people were, especially because we know so much about who the artist was. And it's incredible to see these women's stories being unearthed. Yes, because you want to have this story, because quite often you then get the insight into how women were treated at that time, you know, when you find out that that was that model then became a famous artist and they got in, because I mean, you...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With newer artists or contemporary artists, it's obviously quite easy to find out who the models are. But in paintings from 400 years ago, or 300 years ago, quite often no one would know who the model was. And there's a bit of a kind of feminist reclamation going on now, isn't there, where people are finding out who models are and sort of renaming the painting, I'm thinking of portrait of Madeline. And a lot of the time as well in the 18th century, the women would be Of very lower class and probably not paid for their time, what do you see the kind of importance in bringing an identity to some of those women? I would the most amazing work has been done on that in recent years.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think that's what Chantal kind of does now as she paints people close to her, and it's so wonderful because it's a sort of conversation. You go into her studio and you see all these different sort of faces. And it's like sort of coming home to all your friends or something. It's a kind of really a magic thing that happens when someone does something in the second of a moment, because in a way you can't overthink it as well. It's just it.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's the fact that it's not just a portrait of me, it's a portrait of how she was feeling that day. And like I said, the weather outside or something, I think we've got some more. And, you know, these are quite recent ones. And she's been painted me for five years and it's interesting to see how things change. But you never look the same. And it's about the expression. And also I just sit there kind of eating biscuits and drinking tea. How many do you have to put your arms up? Oh yeah, it was all right. I think I had a cushion actually. But we were trying to, we both love Alice Neal, who I think we've got it here, who was the greatest painter of the 20th century. She was born in 1900, died in 1984, and was painting from the 30s to the 80s and painted the people of New York City, whether it was her cleaner carmen or Andy Warhol, the artist, or all these different people that make up that sort of community.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But I think that what I love about it is that she paints sort of life as it goes by what was happening in the room that day and she paints what was going on in my life and sometimes she can see something that even I can't and sometimes you know I mean the top right one isn't sort of you know most flattering but in a way that but it's not about that it's about what was going on in my life at time and it's sort of extraordinary that someone can be so astute and like the way that she sees people she actually sees them you know and I think that that's so rare you know we so often sort of see the surface of people and they're sort of an incredible memory but also I think when you paint”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh my god, I mean, I've sat for her something like 20 times now, and I mean for same portraits or for different portraits. Wow. So I think I've only done one. I'm going to do my sister's son. And, you know, I think we've got some pictures as well. It's really sort of good fun. I mean, Chantal is one of my closest friends now. And I remember when I first went over, which I think the day before my 25th birthday, and she was an artist at Victoria Miro. So, you know, when you work at a gallery, I mean, I was always so starstruck by artists. I kind of didn't know what to say to them. The only people I kind of lose myself were people who I just completely admire like that. And she was like, do you want to come and sit for me and ask? Oh my God, it's amazing. And I think the first picture was actually not here, but my eyes are like because I'm so excited. Can you imagine? But as the years have gone on, I mellow.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Conscious about who's writing that. And obviously, if you're reading the paper, you're not going to think about that too much, but I think it's important to get different perspectives in. I also think I might have got it totally wrong. I think it might be, was it Mondrian in how that event? Oh yeah, that one. Yes, that's why that didn't make any sense. The rest still stood there. The review still stood. Yes. You have also sat to put artists in your time, which I find really interesting because I think, again, you must be seeing a completely different view of the artist. You've sat for Chantel Joff. What's it like sitting for an artist? What have you learned as a model in muse?”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But the Guggenheim put on this show, it was her first ever exhibition in America, and it broke attendance records over 600,000 people went. They had to sort of extend it 24-hour openings. And you just think, you know, people say it's an odd period. Well, why don't you just have Hilmref Clint on her own as well? It's sort of, I mean, you know, I mean, people can say what they want, but I also can probably guarantee that most critics in British newspapers are also from a particular class, demographic, race, and that's also an issue. I think, you know, this idea that who are the people who are actually feeding these articles that, you know, millions of people read every Sunday in the culture section or something. And so I think that, and I'm not saying that they're bad, they're fantastic, but what I'm saying is we need to open that up and other people need to have that platform as well. And I think it's always good to be sort of...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Works, and you see these works on the right here, and every sort of shape and strand and color had actually documented everything, everything sort of meant something. Male meant yellow, female men blue, all these different sort of symbols. And what's extraordinary is she made sort of hundreds and hundreds of these paintings during her lifetime. And then, you know, basically said in her will no one can just as you said, no one can open these for 20 years. And what was extraordinary is that in 2018, the Guggenheim put on an exhibition of her work. And in the 1930s, she had actually designed in her notebook a spiral-like temple to house her paintings.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Seeing and underappreciation for her because I mean when you see her works in that space the scale, I mean you talk about scale, the scale of her works are just sublime. Yeah, so Hilmrafklint was born in about 1862 I think and she on the left here we can see this kind of impressionistic style painting of a landscape that people thought that she made her entire life In about the 1880s she began to sort of congregate this sort of the height of the spiritualist movement in Europe where people were sort of accessing and communicating with the dead through seances and what artists started to do was actually get again that movement it was really big spiritualism There was another strange name for anyway I'll find that later but people but she basically began to sort of meet with this group of women called the five and they would create these extraordinary”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Always find so interesting, a slightly more modern example is Hilda Afkempt, who was obviously very famous in her time, and then issued that extraordinary diktat of some of her art, the art actually that a lot of people love the most now, not to be seen until a certain amount of years after her death, was it 20 years? 50 years, 20 years. Because she didn't think people could appreciate it. It was too modern. And she was actually sort of right because I think that's one of the reasons why action people are quite rude about her now and they're like, oh, millennial women love her. Yeah, I do. I love it. And she was obviously not really known. And then in the last few years, she's kind of become more known. And there was the exhibition of her work and Kadinsky's last year. And I found the reviews of that really interesting because almost everyone seemed to think that she shouldn't have been there, that it was really odd curation, that she hadn't contributed nearly as much to modernism as Kodinsky, you know, that it was like a really uncomfortable pairing. Are we still...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm going to be championing these people, but I think it's all about sort of questioning the history that we've always been told. Like I said, you know, the story of art is essentially the story of art without women, and we just think, oh, well, that's kind of it. And actually, it's totally not. Of course there were women there as well. And actually, they had to work so much harder. So I think it really depends. But I think it's important to champion people as much as you can, especially and also especially if they're alive. I mean, it might sound sort of crazy, but you know, I mean, I have an artist friend who is 74 and she had her first museum show and her first museum show and her first commercial show in New York this year. I love it when I hear stories like that. But it's so wonderful and to sort of see someone see that is the kind of greatest thing because I don't want it to happen when it's too late. And so I think it's important as well for while people are alive to champion them. One of the examples”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Show, but to make a series or a podcast, anyone around the world could listen to that. And so it's kind of about, okay, how can we sort of use that platform and put her front and center? He was kind of a footnote in it. I learned so much from that podcast. You write that there are two ways in which women are forgotten. Either they were not appreciated at the time and are only appreciated in full now, or they were very famous at the time, but then fell out a favour. Do you see... More in the former or the latter, or you can't really I think it totally depends. I think what's really interesting, so Artemucidentaleski, who I was telling you about earlier, was obviously very famous, hugely famous. I mean, to the point where, you know,”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It down. I did think they even respond to the letter. And then they offer it to the Met and the Met says yes. And so overnight, literally she created a market. She creates a market and suddenly can sell his work. Rothka, all these different artists. And that, I mean, you can't trace it completely, but that is a strand in how we've sort of come to what the American art market is built on today. And I think, you know, not only was this woman a great sort of entrepreneur, hugely intelligent, but also a great painter as well. I mean, this is her self-portrait from when she's about 21 years old. And I love it because you can see that determination in her eyes. And also when Pollock dies, Lee Krasnatchi takes over that famous barn where you see the sort of drip painting photographs. And she makes her own and suddenly it's like she's able to sort of break free and work on the scale that she's never been able to before. And it's the fact that we were so lucky to have that barbecue.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“She comes back to Paris, she sorts everything out, she organizes the funeral, and she also secures his marketing legacy. I mean, this is also another thing. You know, why do we have these stratospheric prices today for this particular time in history? Well, it's partly also due to Lee Krasna, because in 1956, the year that Pollock died, she was working with his art dealer Sidney Janice, and Mo were going to buy this work called Autumn Rhythm for nine thousand dollars, and it was the most Jackson Pollock and Lee Krasner while they were alive, they were not rich at all. We might think of these paintings to go a lot of money, but she had $200 in the bank account when she was organizing the funeral. So $9,000 was this kind of stratospheric price. And Momo were about to sign, and she says, no, I want it to be $30,000. And the art dealer just goes, what are you talking about? No one's going to pay for that. So they go back to Moma. Moma immediately...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because it's just such a brilliant story, and I think this was going to be a six part series that really focused on her and took away this idea that she exists because of Jackson Pollock, when actually she was the one who introduced him to art, introduced him to the artist, she was the one who got him the art exhibitions of Peggy Guggenheim. She was the one who moved him out to springs in Long Island when he was becoming too much of an alcoholic and he couldn't contain himself, so he needs to be somewhere else. She was the one who flew home from Paris for the first time when she was traveling there for the first time in her life, age 48, after he crashed his car with the woman he was having an affair with friend and the woman he was having an affair with. And so he...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're admitted girls for art who was at the total forefront of art in the 1930s was really sort of playing around with abstraction, was at the heart of the abstract expressionist movement in the 1940s and 50s, and also continued to be an incredible artist throughout her life and actually someone who was only recognized with major exhibitions around America in the year that she died. I mean, she finally got recognized by MoMA in 1984, but she died six months before the opening. And you just thought like this person, how did she deserve that? Yet she's constantly called. I remember, I think it was the evening standard headline was like Japs and Pollet's wife Get except Get's exhibition. And you just think this person was extraordinary. And I think that that's why I wanted to create great monarchists podcast, to be honest. And then with the Pushkin, so we did this series called Death of an Artist this year, I mean...”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ends up making a podcast out of, which is Lee Krasner, who is very often Named in context to Jackson Pollock. And there are states looked after by the same people, aren't they? So they are kept together even in death. What made you want to tell the story of Leed, sort of emancipate her? So I actually, there was a fantastic exhibition in 2019 at the Barbican in London, which was about Lee Krasner. And there's only one work of Lee Krasner's in a permanent collection in the UK. And it's not even her best example. And it was actually that exhibition that made me want to start my podcast. So Eleanor Nairn, who curated that show, was actually the first ever episode of The Great Woman Artists. Because I went to that exhibition, I just thought, how have I not heard this story of this young girl who was born in 1908, immigrant, Jewish parents, grew up in Brooklyn, did everything she could to get to Manhattan every day to go to the only high school?”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's really interesting as well who speaks. There are so many parallels, I think, with literature as well when you look at a lot of famous female and male writers who are together. I was just thinking of Ted Hughes and Silvio Platinos like that. And when you read about how tortured often the personal lives were of the women and men then go on to be very famous. But it's also so interesting. It's about how people have written about them. And I think that's why it's so important to, you know, when we're talking about histories or whatever, it's so important that people of all different kinds write them. Because if you just have that one perspective and that becomes the default perspective, and we do see them as the wife or the sort of tortured young one who did whatever. And so I think it's so, and I hope that we live in a new world now where that's changing. And so I just, you know, encourage people to write books, tell their own perspective, basically. Well, one such story.”
2024-09-26 · Intelligence Squared · Katy Hessel on The Story of Art Without Men, with Pandora Sykes, Part Two · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT