YouSaid · the spoken record

Kenan Malik

lines on the record: 41
first: 2023-01-18
most recent: 2023-01-18
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“And part of the problem is that we've shifted from the first to the second. Or rather, we've come to see that being black or white or Muslim or European or English somehow defines one's ideals, one's values about the world. And I'm trying to separate those two things out and say what matters are the values that you hold, the ideals that you have, the kind of society you want to build, and not where you come from in terms of race, ethnicity, history, heritage, whatever. It's where you're going to that matters, not where you come from.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The way I look at it is that one can define solidarity or social affiliations in two kinds of ways. One can say that what matters are the values that people hold, they're ideal, the kinds of society they want to build. Or one can say what matters is their race, ethnicity, culture, faith and so on. And building solidarity is often there's an element of both in that. But to me, I would far rather make common cause with somebody whose views are, in fact, I would only make common cause with somebody whose views and ideals are similar to mine than somebody whose race or ethnicity or culture are similar to mine.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so I think part of the problem is that those who argue that the election of Barack Obama changed things hugely are as invested in the idea of the importance of skin colour as those who say it didn't change anything at all. And I think I suppose the thread running through our conversation has been that let's not get so obsessed with a question of race as As a category, there are other categories that are important. And the fact that you put, that you have black people in positions of power in city halls, in police forces, in the White House doesn't necessarily change things whether we're talking about race or class.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's true much of what you say, but it's possible both to say that American cited, British society are completely different now from what they were 50, 60 years ago when it comes to race, attitudes to race, the place of black people and minorities in society and so on. The election of Barack Obama was a symbolic expression of that, a symbolic expression of how much American society has changed. But also to say, actually, it hasn't created the election Barack Obama did not create a post-racial world in that sense.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Or making white people feel guilty and so on. And those are all the tropes that you're seeing contemporary anti-racism. And so I see it as the product of trying to fight racism while feeling the you can't actually overcome racism. And so you end up having both an identitarian viewpoint and a kind of performative form of anti-racism.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Represent that view of racism as permanent and there's nothing to be done about it. So when that happens, the question, if racism is permanent, if there is no way of challenging it or overcoming it, the question then is, what do you do? And at that point, any kind of anti-racist activity becomes performative. Because if you're not going to actually transform racism, what you're actually doing is saying, let's make it a little bit better. Let's find something that allows us greater recognition. There's a shift from wanting to materially change society to wanting to achieve greater recognition or greater representation. And so...”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Temporary identitarianism is that sense of social pessimism, the belief it is impossible to radically transform society. It's interesting if you go back to an issue such as critical race theory, which is a buzz issue today. And if you look at a figure like Derek Bell, who was in a sense a founder of critical race theory, his view was that racism was in eradicable, that it was permanent. It could not be changed. And you can see that kind of argument in a kind of a writer-like Tanahisi Coates, for instance, who draws from that. And so I don't think anybody went as far down that kind of pit of existential despair as Derek Beld did. I mean, Derek Bell's well worth reading, but it he...”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ukrainian refugees have today, or the campaigns against the oppression of Uyghurs in China. It's through those struggles, there are particular identities become part of a broader coalition set of interests, a more universalist way of looking at the world. But the opposite is also true, that where politics phrase, where politics becomes much more difficult to pursue, where the idea of a radical transformation of the world becomes much less plausible, then we tend to retreat away from those universalist perspectives into particularist ones. And that's really what has happened over the past half century. It's a point I was making earlier that what underlines”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To allow us to relate to other people. But politics should be a means of overcoming or going beyond the narrow sense of identity that we all possess, of linking us across those identities. But in order to do that, you need to have that broader sense of politics, a sense of engaging with the world and through engaging with the world and finding that one's narrow identities isn't a sufficient way of understanding the world. And those broader struggles, whether they're struggles of Lancashire cotton workers in the 19th century, of the Grumwick strikers and the support they had in the 1970s of the support that”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Each of us have particular identities. Each of us are black, Jewish, Muslim support Liverpool football club watch, Jean-Luc Goddard films, whatever. We all have certain things that define, we think, define who we are. We kind of have those particularities from which we emerge. But at the same time, those particularities only make sense because we live in a broader society, in a broader world where one can reach across one's narrow particularities and talk to other people and make common cause with other people. There's a distinction between identity and identity politics. We all have identities. Identities are crucial to ground this work.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think the idea that there is good identity politics and bad identity politics and you can define these things as good identity politics and these things as bad identity politics simply misunderstands the problem. I don't think it's as simple as you are posing it, that there is identity politics on this side in universalist politics on the other, and that that's always the case historically. Historically, all struggles against race, against colonialism and so on have embodied a sense of both. There's always been identitarian strains in those struggles and they've always been universalist strains in those struggles. And until recently, the universalist aspects of those struggles was the dominant one. But it's not to say there were kind of completely separate. The way I'd look at it is this, that people don't live in either the particular or the universal.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“While it is easy and has been easy to break such coalitions down, to use ideas of race and ethnicity and gender and so on, to break down those coalitions, that only shows the problems of thinking of our struggles in those terms, in identitarian terms. And it shows even more that the necessity for going beyond identitarian terms, identity and categories to create those wider coalitions and struggles.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Famous New Orleans General Strike 1892, where blacks and whites came together to take on employers. The work of what we now call civil rights unionism in the interwar years, which brought together the struggle of blacks and the struggle of workers and brought them together in a single struggle and saw them as part of the same challenge to iniquity. So all those things show, or in Britain, if you want to look in Britain, the support that Lancashire cotton workers gave to the American North during the Civil War or the Gromwick Strike, the famous Gromwick strike in the 1970s, where a group of Asian women went out on strike and were supported by thousands. Upon thousands of workers across the country. All those things show the possibilities of such coalitions, what is possible. So in a sense,”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's true that there are, it's been very easy to break cross-racial class coalitions through the use of ideas of race or ethnicity and so on. That doesn't mean that the aim is false or wrong. It just means that it is very difficult to do so or it becomes very easy to break those kinds of cross-racial class coalitions. And in fact, what that shows is the importance of creating those kinds of coalitions, the importance of arguing against and taking a stand, not just arguing against, but taking a practical stance against those kinds of divisions that are imposed upon us. And the fact that those kinds of cross-racial coalitions Exist and have existed historically.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, Marxism promotes a kind of universalism. So that's not the distinction in a sense. So what do you make of the practice?”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You find that incarceration rates are defined by income and by class, then much more than they are by race. At every income level, the incarceration rates of blacks and whites are almost the same, whereas across income levels, there are huge disparities. So yes, class is hugely important. And I think that challenging racism requires us to challenge the class disparities and the class differentials that exist in society.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, I was with in a number of far left organizations back in the 80s in my youth. Class is important and shapes the way much of the world is. If you look at everything from health disparities to disparities of income, to take an issue in America, the mass incarceration of people in America, he can explain mass incarceration in America actually far better by class than he can by race. I mean, there's a lot of discussion of mass incarceration as the new Jim Crow in America, as you know, the name of Michel Alexander's book, but it's a much older idea. But if you actually look at the figures,”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Then we can't think about colorblindness in an individualist sense, but only in a sense of a collective struggle to transform the world. And part of the problem, I think, with the colorblinder's perspective today is that it is rooted in a form of individualism that doesn't allow us to challenge and change the world.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Whereas the radical universalists in Britain at that time, where Mill defended the East India Company and the colony and the Britain colonising India, the radical universalists challenged that very idea, defended the rights of Indians to their own nation in the same way as they defend the rights of Poles or Hungarians and so on. And so, and in a sense, that comes through today as well, because one can think about colourblindness or a liberal universalist perspective from an individualist viewpoint. And one can think of it from a collective viewpoint. And if we're going to think that the relationship between race and class is important and a class plays an important part of our struggle to create a better world.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the Haitian Revolution showed the first importance and the shortcomings of Enlightenment notions of universalism. Because the French revolutionaries who had created the French Revolution on the basis of the rights of man, of universal rights, nevertheless are willing to accept slavery and colonialism. And it was only through the actions of the enslaved on Saint-Domingue that slavery was at first overthrown and that in a sense they forced French Revolutionaries to take their own ideals seriously. So we're not debating the ideals, the ideals are important. But how you challenge them and how you go about it is also important. So again, historically, if you take a figure like John Stewart Mill, kind of the great Victorian defender of liberalism, he was also a defender of colonialism.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is to me hugely important. The Haitian Revolution is the third great revolution of the 18th century. But compared to the American and French, we barely know about it. But it was a Haitian revolution where slaves on the French island of Saint-Domingue challenged first their enslavement and then created the new nation of Haiti and in the process defeated the armies of France and Britain and Spain and so on.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Colorblindness has come to be a kind of shorthand for a form of liberal universalism. And I think that's what it's come to mean for many people. At one level, it's what you want to go towards, that the idea that you have a world in which race or color doesn't matter. Part of the problem, though, I think, is that universalism itself comes in different forms. And historically, as I show in the book, there's a distinction between liberal and radical forms of universalism and liberal universalists had an attachment to universalism, but were often willing to accept accede to all forms of discriminatory practices. Whereas it was those who challenged not just racism, but the whole social structure, which gave rise to racism. The radical universalists who took the argument further. So for instance, to give a history.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of poverty and so on. It's similar in Europe too. You have similar kind of distinctions between African Caribbeans in Britain and African migrants. But because we have this notion of blackness, everything gets elided into a single category. And it's the way we look at the world and the way we categorize the world more as much as any kind of visual distinction that is important, I think.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Those categories work. For instance, many now look at Latinos in America as white and talk about multicultural whiteness, for instance. In a way, or look at Asians as surrogate whites, because what's important is not actually the physical distinction. People can tell the difference if they wish between white Americans and Asian Americans, or Latinos. What matters is the kind of story you say, you tell about different groups and the categories into which you put those groups. And yes, the difference between immigrants from Africa or for the Caribbean and African Americans can be quite large in terms of their place in society, the kinds of jobs they have, their wealth. And so on, all those kinds of degrees.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Quite often though, we impose the idea that people look dissimilar when we put people into separate categories, Jews, for instance. People are sure they can tell a Jew because they're belonging to a different category. The fact that anti-Semitism continues despite most Jews being visually not that dissimilar to the population in which they live is an aspect of the way we categorize people without necessarily there being visual markers. I mean, we impose with visual markers or racists impose visual markers on Jews, but that's not the same thing. And it's true that the kind of black, white difference has come to predominate much of our thinking. But it's interesting how”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The scramble for Africa divided up Africa among the European nations, America seized parts of the Pacific and so on. That new imperialism redrew what Du Bois calls the color line and made race much more as we see it now as an issue of skin colour, of a black and white issue that it had been previously.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The idea of going back to your argument about skin colour, it's only in the early 20th century that whiteness, as we understand it, and blackness as we understand it, became consolidated, that what you call ethnic groups, the Irish, the Slavs, and so on, became seen as whites, and that the major division was purely between black and white. And there were two reasons for that. One was the extension, expansion of democracy within Western nations so that the working class, which had largely been excluded from the democratic process, were now given the vote brought into democratic process, and it became much more difficult to talk about the working classes racially inferior when they're part of a democratic Process. And the second reason was the expansion of imperialism, the new imperialism scramble for Africa from the 1880s onwards.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And blacks, which challenged the elite, particularly in the south, in North and South Carolina, in Virginia and so on, challenged them by presenting a broader, more equal notion of what kind of society they want to live in. The challenge, particularly the Democrats, who are the elites and the pro-slavery party in the South. And in order to break up that coalition again quite deliberately, in order to break up that coalition between whites and blacks, Jim Crow was introduced in a most ferocious way to allow for certain kinds of privileges for whites and to segregate blacks. And so you can see how racism becomes a means of breaking up cross-racial coalitions, class coalitions. Against the elites.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With it, there were continual struggles against both slavery and indentured servitude, which is what poor whites faced in America in those days, that blacks and whites used to get together and challenge their enslavement or servitude. And it became easier. It was a lot easier to distinguish, essay, a runaway slave if that slave was black than if that slave was white. And so partly to break up that coalition between blacks and whites, slavery became increasingly racialized. You can see that in America at the end of the 19th century too, when you had in the post-reconstruction world, you had the fusion movements between poor whites.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There are a number of points here. The first is that if you go back to the 19th century, people saw the Irish of the working class as physically distinct. In a way, we would find it absurd today that was the case. So it's not purely the question of looking different that's at issue here. But it is true that the fact that black people are easily distinguishable from whites plays an important part in this. One of the reasons that slavery was racialized, for instance, at the end of, say, the 17th century, early 18th century.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What's important to recognise is how different century views of race were than contemporary views of race. We think of race largely in terms of skin colour or continent of origin, black, white, Asian and so on. Whereas for 19th century thinkers race was primarily a description of social inequalities. So yes, black people, Asians, Chinese, Indians and so on were seen as inferior, but so was the working class. I mean, it may be difficult to comprehend noun, but 19th century thinkers saw factory workers and farmhands as racially distinct from themselves, as many see white and black as racially distinct. Inability to be any more than factory workers or farmhands, which attributed the fact that they were racially inferior.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, the ancestors of today's African Americans weren't enslaved because they were black. But there came to be deemed as racially distinct and racially inferior as black people as a way of justifying their enslavement. So race becomes a means of explaining and justifying the continuation of inequalities in societies that had proclaimed their fidelity to equality.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Race develops in the modern world out of that contradiction as a way of almost of making sense of that contradiction. That race becomes a way of saying certain people are by nature unequal and therefore not deserving or not worthy of equality. And that became an explanation for slavery, for instance. It worked black people, the ancestors of today's African Americans weren't enslaved because they were black. Slavery has existed well before modernity. Both blacks and whites were enslaved in those days.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Broadly accept the idea of equality, of universality, the notion of racism, the notion of inequality, racial inequality becomes something very different. What you have from the late 18th century onwards are societies that are rooted in the idea that all humans are equal, all men are equal as the American Declaration of Independence broadly says, or the French Declaration of Rights of Man, which broadly says much the same. So the idea of equality becomes a defining feature of post-Enlightenment societies, Western societies. But that abstract belief in equality is set against the practice of inequality, the social practice of inequality, of enslavement, of the refusal to Grant rights to women, to minorities, to working class and so on.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Make the argument that, and lots of people have made this argument, of course, that race is a product of modernity. It's not in the pre-modern world there wasn't bigotry or there wasn't a sense, a belief that other groups may have been subhuman. There wasn't a lack of huge intolerance against other groups. Clearly there was. But what there wasn't was a sense that humans were equal and there was a single universal sense of humanity. That was what developed largely in the 18th century. We think about the Enlightenment and Enlightenment notions of equality and universalism. Against the background of societies that.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“adopt a universalist perspective to think that you can build coalitions across the fissures of race and class and ethnicity and so on to think that you can radically transform society requires a certain degree of optimism, social optimism. And much of that has ebbed over the last half century. more and more people cling on to what they have. They cling on to their particular identities, their particular the boxes into which we've been put and see the world more and more through those identities through those boxes. So I think it's important to locate where we are. It's not as if we've suddenly become all identitians. It's always been there. But the wider shifts, the wider economic, political, social shifts, and in particular the labour movement has lost influence, has lost force over the past half century, has played an important role.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Much stronger in America. And to me, to explain the shift to an identitarian turn, you have to understand two things. Firstly, that Anti racist movements, anti colonial movements have always had an identitarian aspect to them. There's always been a tension within anti-racist movements between identitarian and universalist perspectives. So, you know, you go back to the 19th century and you have the back to Africa movements in America and then you have Marcus Garvey in the early 20th century, Negritude, Pan-Africanism and so on. So those have always been that. But not till relatively recently have they become the dominant force within anti-racist discourse. And the reason they've become the dominant force is, I think, to do with the social pessimism that has developed over the last half century.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of the problems we have is that because of the economic, social, cultural heft of America, what happens in America tend to shape what happens elsewhere. So attitudes about race, arguments about race in America are simply taken on and applied to other countries where they're less applicable. One of the reasons that the book concentrates on America is precisely that, that because the arguments about race in America are so influential to the rest of the world that it's important to challenge it in its own terms, to unpick them, and therefore to show why they're not so applicable, not just in the rest of the world, but America itself. I think that the identitarian strain is probably much stronger in America than it is elsewhere. I mean, you can see it elsewhere, but it is probably...”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“was about creating coalitions and movement that went across identities and that it was only in transforming everybody's lives that one gets to transform one's own life. But within about this, we're talking about here about the early 1980s. But within about a decade, much of that had changed. The left became much more rooted in identitarian notions. The big issue for me was the Salman Rushdie campaign in 1988, 1989 where a lot of my friends who'd been on the left suddenly became opponents of Rushdie, thought Satanic versus should be censored, supported the burning of the book. And it got me to thinking about what had happened, why that was the case, why the left. Has changed so much, and it got me thinking about identitarian politics, and that's what I've been thinking about and arguing against for the best part of 30 years.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Racism drew me into politics. I got involved in a whole host of campaigns about deportations, about racist attacks, about racism in the workplace and so on. But if it was racism that drew me into politics, it was politics that made me see beyond racism, to see that there were broader issues of social justice and that thinking about social justice simply in terms of my experiences was insufficient. I came to read people like Marx and Mill, Bal Baldwin and Arent who drew me into an entirely different universe. I began to see the world in a different way. And it was at that time the left was still what one might call the universalist left. There were still universalist strands to the idea that What we're fighting for was not simply shaped by one's identity.”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's impossible for someone like me, brown person in Britain, not to be brought into the topic of race. I live the topic of race. But I came to Britain when I was about six. And the Britain I grew up in was very different from the Britain it is today. In those days, racism was vicious, visceral in a way that's barely imaginable now, race the attacks were daily. I mean, I used to be attacked frequently, daily, weekly. in his heart to think of a time I didn't come back from school having been in a fight”
2023-01-18 · Intelligence Squared · Resetting the Conversation on Race, with Coleman Hughes and Kenan Malik · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT