YouSaid · the spoken record

Kenneth R. Rosen

lines on the record: 37
first: 2026-01-30
most recent: 2026-01-30
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Discuss militarization and security issues. Think that There is this notion that if we come together on a treaty that governs the region similar to what we have with Antarctica, we as Arctic states and near Arctic states and observer states in the Arctic Council will come together on some fundamental shared grounding. But I don't think we're there anymore. And I think that the rhetoric has been ratcheted up to such a level that the security issues with the warming planet are not only real for the Arctic 8, but also for the mid-latitude states and the rest of the world. Whether or not we can find that cooperation now with the current president and an administration that seems to fully support everything that he says and desires and wants, it's likely to deteriorate further before it gets better.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think it's a testament to how important the region has been. To know that I filed the last Pages of this book in January of 2025. So when The White House began issuing its statements about Greenland in january twenty twenty six. Everything seemed to remain true, and that this has been of concern and of real practical necessity for a decade, if not more, at least in the North American mindset. One of the things that I suggest is whether or not we should or shouldn't introduce the notion of militarizing the North or at least addressing the militarization of the North into the Arctic Council. There should be a broader Arctic military code of conduct through the Arctic aid who operate there, that if we are going to be sending armed icebreakers for fisheries patrols, maybe we do need some sort of agreement between the stakeholders in the region to discuss where historically there hasn't been a forum to discuss.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The hemispheric approach that you mentioned, which is in the latest U.S. national security. Parameters and desire that says we're just going to focus on our neck of the woods. But our neck of the woods are shared And it's not just us and the fifty first state of Canada. It's Canada, the Kingdom of Denmark, the United States, Mexico working together to benefit the region. And you can't defend it by simply purchasing everything and hoping that it works out in the end. So the hemispheric approach is something new, and it certainly diminishes the transatlantic partnership. But whether or not Greenland factors in a meaningful way beyond what we can already gain from it is Sideshow that is distracting from the more pressing needs of a unified transatlantic partnership.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What I think I'd also like people to know about the current debate in Greenland The more troubling notion, the more humanistic notion that what has happened with this sideshow is we have inadvertently set back the Inuit people of Greenland by at least a decade in their search for independence. They have sought independence from the Kingdom of Denmark for more than a decade and have made inroads into doing so. And now the focus is on whether or not the US will buy Greenland, not whether or not the Greenlandic people deserve independence. I should further add that What has escaped the mindset of the US is It has helped and bolstered the Danish defense capabilities through the sales of short range and medium range missiles and vessels in as early as December before this all kicked off. There's this disconnect with”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And in so doing, agreed that we could operate a military base there and that we could station troops there and that were we to decide we'd like to mine for minerals Drill for gas, explore for gas, we can do that. So there's been a longstanding tradition in the US government of this desire to buy, purchase other territories or sell territories, which we have. What's interesting about the current debate, and it's been brought up by the bigger traditional media outlets This idea that we possess all of our Necessary latitude in Greenland already by virtue of a very strong relationship with the Kingdom of Denmark. And whether or not that would change if we owned outright. A new nation But it's also not. Logical There's nothing more that we can get that we don't already have.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The UK was looking to offload Canada, and the US thought perhaps we should buy parts of Canada because that's a seemingly diplomatic way of going about expanding our territory and also our reach and keeps us on friendly footing with everyone. In 1916, when the U.S. sold what are now the Virgin Islands to Denmark, the Danish Virgin Islands the West Indies at the time, We acknowledged that specifically within that agreement, we acknowledged that Greenland was would fall forever in perpetuity under Danish sovereignty. Then again in nineteen fifty one post World War II. We again signed an agreement with Denmark, acknowledging the sovereignty it had the kingdom of Denmark had over Greenland.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When Abraham Lincoln's Secretary of State Seward went about buying what was Russian America today, Alaska back in the eighteen hundreds, he was nearly laughed out of Congress for it was just seen as an ice box. But after they purchased Alaska and realized that over time it would pay back dividends far greater than they realized. There was this notion among the Power brokers in Washington that perhaps we don't need to fight wars for expansion, but we could pay for expansion. The time”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What I've seen in the Arctic is that the military leads the way in facilitating growth and opportunities for industry and for commercial development in those more radical areas. So I'd caution to say that by virtue of having a military presence, it heightens security issues. But I am aware that there's a tit-for-tat sort of combustible relationship between placing military troops to do one thing and then another nation believing it for a separate purpose. We've seen this dual-use facilities issue with China the world over. Think there's a benefit to having military capability and knowledge in the North so long as it doesn't escalate into direct conflict. But how do you prevent that? Beyond my pay grade”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think in many parts of the world, and certainly throughout our shared histories, it's the military that does the legwork before society blooms, and that might be a stretch in some academic circles, but I found it to be true, certainly in Greenland, all the airports used today were built by the US military. A lot of the roads that are used today were built by the US military. The port in Nome, Alaska is being built by the US Army Corps of Engineers, not for military purposes, but because the military has the wherewithal and the ability to do so in harsh climates, but also effectively and quickly, to say nothing of a multi-trillion dollar defense budget.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a tough thing to really grasp geographically how far removed some of these nations are and some of these peoples are, but they're not wholly disconnected is what I'm saying.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Actors who are perhaps not keeping their best interest in mind, but are tepidly aware of the benefits of operating with those people who are perhaps not in their best interest. Does not Europe still buy gas from Russia? Do we still not buy, we as Americans still not buy precious minerals from China? There's a way of working in a globalized society. That is beneficial to even those who are far removed from the daily musings of the houses of power. And I think that that's really important because we've also seen that with Alaskan native tribes who are working to benefit their people in the scope of States and parts of the nation far removed from them are operating. So they want to learn how to use the language that is being used to determine their future to their best interest.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think there is this disassociation that you're describing, but I don't feel as though the disassociation breeds contempt or disillusionment insofar as those peoples who are far removed from the houses of power that ostensibly govern their sovereignty. Are unaware of the potential for incursions outside of their domain. And I think that's important to note because what we saw with Greenland and what we've seen with Greenland, even while I was reporting the book, was their awareness of the difficulties of dealing with”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is what we believe to be of benefit to the nation. They neglect the smaller Arctic region that operates and functions wholly separately from the way the other nations do. In Canada, I think that's a little different given, I think it's 80-something percent of the population lives apart from the Arctic, and then there's a small indigenous population that lives scattered across the Arctic territory. So there's a little less of a stake for the main population. But in America, I mean, Alaska is a huge state with major implications for the rest of the nation. So I think it's been naive to say that all policies should apply equally across the U.S. or across any nation, whether it be in the European Arctic or the American Arctic.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But given the geographic distance, I'm willing to bet that it's not that great. In America, I could more easily draw that comparison by saying the white this current administration, the Trump administration two point zero is going all in against renewable energy. It's shutting down wind farm projects off the coast of Massachusetts and Maine and New Hampshire. It's also pulling subsidies for solar panel farms and other renewable energy sources. But when I spoke to Trump administration officials working on Alaska, they had noted that that's not the reality there. That were you to invest in renewable energy, geothermal, solar, wind, Hydroelectric in Alaska, and this was a quote from an official I spoke to, the math pencils out that it does work in the Arctic because of the vast resources available. Yet when they put a broad stamp on”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think the two examples I can give, the short first one and then a longer second one is Oslo, the capital of Norway is some eighteen hundred miles from Svalbard, yet dictates how non militarized visa free zone should operate, yet has no true stake in being there other than a governor who reports to the ministers down in Oslo. So there's a real physical divide. And whether or not their voices, the people of Svalbard or of the Finnmark region of northern Norway are represented, I'm not so clear on.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And went dark and made pilots fly through more regular instrumentational devices. So it's a really complex warfare that doesn't rise to the occasion of bad guy here or good guy there. And we see this more and more regularly in nations like Moldova where the meddling in elections in the US, also meddling in the elections can be attributed to any number of different people or potentially other different people, but it's never very clear. And I think I've been asked a lot over the last few weeks what I think President Putin feels about the Trump White House's desire to get Greenland. And I think that this is straight out of the Soviet playbook. Let them eat each other apart and then we'll come in and reap the benefits later, right? That's a classic, classic Soviet tactic, and they had hoped.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Who cut the cable and why they cut the cable isn't exactly clear, but it is more or less apparent to those who are watching that who would benefit most from severing communications to a small archipelago in NATO territory than maybe NATO's antagonists. But you can't attribute it, so you can't full out fully call out that nation or that bad actor unless you start a conflict that they had hoped for, which is called a black flag operation wherein they goed A actor goads another actor into blaming them for something or initiating a conflict that is more plain cut and clear. So when I was traveling in the north, a lot of those issues were happening, including, you know, NATO military drills wherein GPSs were jammed, even commercial airline GPS for airlines were jammed.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Computer program that sent it across the border. It falls below the threshold of war because it's asymmetric and it's not very clearly attributable. Another example would be the submarine line that I had mentioned earlier too was it was severed in the middle of the night by what was ostensibly a fishing vessel. And that line connected the world's largest satellite relay, Ansvalbard, to mainland Norway and the rest of the world. And ostensibly, defense contractors were not allowed to use that satellite relay for anything other than scientific research for weather tracking and information sharing with NATO allies.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You were generous enough in the introduction to note that I have been a war correspondent that I was in conflicts in Syria and Iraq. And these were very plain and clear conflicts. We would go into an area. There were bad guys over there and there were the good guys over here and we would shoot at one another. Or we would bomb them and then we would wait and then we would bomb them again. But we knew where they were and we more or less were cordoned off from populations and staging areas for humanitarian aid and all these other great things. Gray zone tactics and hybrid warfare persists in daily life. So for people who are going to work or taking their kids to school and seeing a Russian drone flying overhead and wondering whether or not that is a sign of an invasion.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sabotage on the rail line that would have deposited those troops from Narwick to Finland. So that is all couched within this notion that, okay, they understood that third nations were under threat, that they were more worried about a potential incursion from Russia, and that they were spending more money on their military apparatus, despite the narratives coming out of the White House, which were saying that they simply weren't the U.S. had requested 2.5% of gross domestic product put into defense spending. And I think Sweden was closer to 5%. You know, they were doubling down and really putting an effort into securing a region that is more or less not fully inhabited, but of strategic value.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And when they did that, I remember sitting with a commander in the Swedish Armed Forces outside of Kiruna in northern Sweden. And he said, finally, we now have these two major puzzle pieces that were missing part of this broader European Arctic strategy. And previously, Arctic military plans, there's three separate plans. There's one for the Arctic, for the north of Europe. There's one for the central of Europe, and there's one for the south of Europe. But the northern plans for NATO military planners were absent of these two massive puzzle pieces, and now they were able to start beginning to plan, okay, if we get American troops landing in Narvik, then we can move them all the way to Finland in 24, 48 hours. What we saw then was”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, over those years since the invasion of Ukraine, those nations have been putting more and more money into their defense budgets. And they've been placing more and more troops in the north, in part also because the former Secretary General of NATO had more or less called the Arctic's Achilles heel, that there was this understanding that there were a lacking infrastructure and lacking planning, military planning for this region. And I can highlight that a little more by bringing us forward to 2023, 2024 when Sweden and Finland acceded to the NATO treaty.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Principle of total defense, or every citizen within the country, it is incumbent upon them to defend their homeland, that they all have a stake in the matter, and if there is an invasion or an attack, they all are called to arms. That's what they believe in. That's how they function as a military, in part through conscription, but also through mass trainings and understanding that together they form a more adversarial unit to a bigger nation.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So if we situate that question post Invasion of Crimea or annexation of Crimea and then the invasion in twenty twenty two of mainland Ukraine. We see that the European Arctic had started to invest more heavily in its infrastructure, both militarily and militarily. For its citizens in the north. And that was not a product of the first Trump administration's desire to push those NATO members for more military spending, especially when Sweden and Finland were not part of NATO at the time. But we saw them increase their defense budgets anyway. And you might be aware of this, but the Nordic nations, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark all have this authority.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In a combustible and also erratic way something. It's not clear. That's the narrative in today's media and it's certainly broached in the book of a potential opportunity. But there is no real plan in the US as far as I can tell for what we need and why we would look to Greenland for it. We certainly have partners elsewhere in the world, India for one, who can help us with some of the things that we've so-called needed for or from Greenland.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Certainly, what we've seen from the U.S. Geological Survey from decades ago is that there is a potential for these minerals to benefit our national defense and our photovalic industries and our EV industries and all these things that are nice and potentially on the horizon. But we're talking about 25, 50 years, maybe even a century out, not something that can be done overnight and certainly not within the bandwidth, current bandwidth of the US mentality, both in the executive branch and in Congress. So I think that there's this divide, again, right? We have Russian China saying, well, we're going to do commercial shipping lanes. China doesn't need any more rare earths. It has what it needs and it sells it the world over to the nations that rely on it. And then you have the US, which is sort of caustically approaching.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a complicated notion to think that the desire of the US is primarily a function of the availability of rare earth minerals and precious materials in Greenland, in part because, as you're well aware, our government revolves around a four year presidential cycle. And if there's not the support of a unified Congress to get anything done in the North, and we've seen this with the Polar Security Cutter program, which was a U.S. Coast Guard initiative to build out the ice-capable vessels that the U.S. possesses, if they can't rally around that and get that through the funding channels necessary to put those boats in the water, it's hard to believe that we need these nations or this land for mining and extractive industries.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Stake colder in the north, that it doesn't want to welcome China in too closely because it is also aware of what its initiatives have done in Africa. So while China seeks out this polar silk road, Russia is also saying, look, you know, we need the help, in part because of Western sanctions, but we also don't want to welcome a stranger or a bad actor into our backyard. So what the U.S. wants out of these past few months is not quite plain, even if it is wholly staked on we need Greenland full stop. What that means in reality, what that means when a nation can't actually operate in the high north, but once an Arctic nation is something of a longer debate and also perhaps the job of Cassandra insofar as figuring out what's happening within the ethos of the White House.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And now with the desire to really or the more rambunctious bellicose rhetoric to get Greenland coming out of the White House, it doesn't make sense and doesn't track with the realities of what China and Russia are actually A doing, B, seeking and Capable of, frankly in the North. So when it comes down to what China and Russia are doing, Russia is seeking to open up its northern sea route above its Arctic coastline for commercial vessels. China is assisting in that by building up and funding port expansions and defense structures and infrastructure that would assist in facilitating a route above the Russian coastline. But Russia is also very conscientious of the fact that it does maintain this primary function as a”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“See, that's interesting because maybe six months ago I would have said you're wrong. There are only two nations vying for more assertive power in the North, China and Russia, Russia being the primary stakeholder with 60% of its country above the Arctic Circle, most of it's underlain by permafrost. They have the largest city by population in Murmansk, 225,000 if I'm correct. They are the dominant force. Full stop. But ever since Trump reignited his rhetoric about taking Greenland, it does seem like there's a third power jockeying for space. But again, six months ago I would have said no. You know, the US is so far behind, and I highlight this in the book, is so far behind in capitalizing on its interests in the north, that it's almost a moot point to include them in the conversation outside the Arctic Circle, the Arctic Council, excuse me.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Looking at this as a potential competitive sphere, one that should be overtaken with great power competition by politics, by military strategic nuisances was shocking. And I think that was the story that I wanted to tell in the way that I told it throughout the book was, you know, whether or not you believe in climate change is one thing. That's neither here nor there. This is how other nations are responding to it. And it's not the way you think.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And what I found most interesting was that, you know, instead of rallying around this notion that our planet is sick and is being tormented by carbon pollution, instead nations were saying, oh, well, this is an opportunity for so many other things. And I was frankly stricken by the notion that we would continue to put into the public sphere these narratives of potentially extinct polar bears, about the sadness of the icebergs melting and cleaving into the oceans, about all various different climate narratives that for me, living in a mid-latitude nation or at least a mid-latitude state in America didn't really bother me. You know, it didn't really affect me. But to see that my government and the governments the world over.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A step back, we had for so long. After the Cold War looked at this region as one of Potential cooperation for understanding our planet, for conducting earth sciences and biological research. Focusing on a region that was more or less ice bound all year round. You know, Michael Gorbachev had said in his famous Murmansk speech that it was a zone of peace, that the Arctic was more or less a heat sink into which the world's climate goes. And I think that the”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so it depends on where you live, but also how you plan to operate in the Arctic. So whether you're a scientist, whether you're in the military, whether you're in Washington, D.C., whether you're a kind of close to the Arctic Circle, you know. Icelanders would balk at the notion that they weren't in the Arctic, though they certainly brush up against the Arctic circle and certainly are situated just south of the Arctic Ocean. So I made a deliberate point, a small protest, if you will, to not capitalize the word Arctic unless used in a proper noun throughout the book. To sort of demonstrate the fluidity of this region and to say that you can't really peg it as one place in the north. It's more all-encompassing than that, I think.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I think coming into the reporting and writing of the book, I was under the impression that the Arctic was Find precisely by the Arctic Circle. Everything north of that was the Arctic, anything south of that was subject to. Open discussion. I wasn't quite sure what the subarctic was, but I knew that there was an Arctic. I quickly learned that there wasn't an Arctic, that depending on who you were, where you worked, what your interests were, that's what defined The Arctic. There was a congressional scientific act in the 70s or 80s that defined the Arctic as the Aleutian Islands to include the Aleutian Islands, which are far removed from the Arctic Circle.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“More subtle news that was coming out of the region was about gray zone tactics and hybrid warfare that when read in a silo didn't seem all that big of a deal, a severed undersea cable. The protesting of Russian residents on a faraway island. And so that immediately drew me to say nothing of the potential opportunity to see beautiful vistas and icebergs and all different wildlife that I wouldn't see otherwise in my then base in Central Europe.”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Came out of a magazine assignment for which I was sent to the Norwegian archipelago of Svalbard. I was assigned to go Look around the world outside of Eastern Europe and outside of the Middle East to determine where a next potential conflict for the US could be. Of course, we've well known about sub-Saharan Africa. We know about the Middle East. We know about the potentials in the Pacific Ocean. But where were some other key hotspots in the globe post-pandemic, post-invasion of Ukraine that could flare up that weren't receiving the attention they deserved? And the Arctic seemed like a natural spot to begin asking those questions in part because of a lot of the”
2026-01-30 · Intelligence Squared · Is the Arctic the World’s Next War Zone? With Kenneth R. Rosen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT