YouSaid · the spoken record

Kristen Berman

lines on the record: 68
first: 2022-10-02
most recent: 2022-10-02
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“So I don't know if people will know him, but Chritz York. So he is a behavioral scientist, designer, just really, just know I would go to Chris and ask him a question. He has done a full research, accidentally, in the last year and done full research on the question and has a very thoughtful answer. And yeah, Chris Jork wins for me.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We as skilled assessments and trial is ways to predict job performance, but interviews are good at predicting affinity and culture fit. And so if you want to ask a question about that, one of my favorite questions is just, what is a personality trait that defines you? So really one that you feel the strength, but that also can be seen as something you're working to improve. So for me, I may be confident, but that may mean that I'm not listening. And so we have really strong personality. People are really quick at answering this question. They really know the thing that they do good, but also can hurt them. And I find that it helps understand a person's a little bit easier and faster.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So interview is four. I'll take this as interviews for people when we're hiring. I would caveat to say, so interviews actually we know don't predict job performance. So very little to no evidence and say interviews will predict how I perform on this. Job, and so yeah”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I have, yeah, the rehearsal was just so compelling, and I'm not usually somebody watches media, so this was like mind-blowing. I loved it”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I love the rehearsal. This is yeah, so it's basically where you feel there's rehearsing life. And I think, you know, sports is so obvious you want to practice. I just started ping pong lessons, actually. And like I'm doing the same stroke for an hour, but like in life, we don't rehearse as much. Like, you know, I don't write an email a hundred times and then practice sending it. And so I think there's probably an opportunity for us all to learn some lessons from that.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Signs have changed in my action podcast. So a little self promotion. We interview product leads and talk about what they've done in their product. And then the other one is no stupid question. So this is by the freakonomics Stephen Dubner and Angela Duckworth come together and just answer questions about behavior change.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would be remiss not to say particularly irrational. I think this is a great starter book for people getting interested in the field. Influence is also a great starter book for people getting interested in the field many times you read influence and you change your career. It's a really powerful book. And then an undertalked about one is I love the author Robert Frank, who wrote Darwin Economy. And he talks more about kind of status and social norms and how this drives a lot of our behavior. So I would recommend Robert Frank as an author in Darwin Economy.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, thanks again for this. Yeah, RiseLive.com is the spot. And if you probably signing up for a newsletter is also a movie. We publish all of our research there and other kind of fun behavioral insights.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so once a year we'll do a cohort course that's a little bit more in depth, but the best way is this kind of self-faced course. It's a eight-week course and we give you a month extra to go through it. There's 16 modules and there's homework throughout it that you can post in Slack and get feedback from behavioral scientists. So a pretty kind of interactive course, but you can go through it on your own and even share with your team. We do group things. So we'll do like a team of 10 and then we can give you a private office hour where we just riff with you on your product challenges.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, that's perfect. Yeah, so we have a, thanks for the tea up, Blenny. Appreciate it. We have a boot camp course, which basically is a self-paced online course that you can go in and understand. That's all a lot of our case studies, many of that I didn't talk about here, and we walk you through the process, right? And you'll have NHR call with us, there's a Slack group, there's office hours, really trying to help people go through the process of behavioral design yourself and it really brings these concepts to life and helps you apply them to your product. So I think starting with that bootcamp is a great place for designers, product managers, marketers, researchers to start. We also, we can, I can send you this. We have a sweet 16, like some of the 16 biases that we, you know, that we refer to most. The three B's is an easy way to evaluate a product.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. Yeah. So maybe in a health app, it's information aversion. They don't actually want to see their test result. That's a step. And then we attach that psychology to that step. And now we can have a brainstorm about, well, what would help decrease information aversion to get them over the next hum.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There's kind of two steps. One, you can outline the full kind of high level flow where you're saying, you know, maybe there's 50 steps in getting to the behavior. And you can do this before they hit your product too. But when we're working with just like a very kind of, we want to help a team grow their product versus develop a new product, it's just about growing and improving the current product, we'll do a deck of 200, 300 slides of screenshots where it's just very detailed analysis of the steps that it takes to get to the behavior change. And then we overlay the psychologies that are driving people at each step, right? This actually takes a really long time, but the light bulbs are like how you actually get to that behavior. As I said, behavior change isn't easy. You know, it's complex. It's hard. It's noisy. And so you have to understand the steps that get you there before you're trying to change it.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I would probably start from the process angle. You know, we have the 3B framework, which again, the most important step is defining the behavior. So if you were to do a workshop with your team on what is the uncomfortably specific behavior that you want to change and you align everyone to this, it's going to be much easier for you to change that behavior because the psychology that drive that behavior will be a better conversation and more obvious. So first and starting with the behavior to get everyone in a room, do a small workshop. The second would be that behavioral diagnosis. And this is the toolkit in behavioral science where we study not what people say they will do, but what they actually do. And so the behavioral diagnosis, it's like a journey map on steroids where you're really trying to map the steps that get people to the behavior change. And again, just doing this, teams have light bulbs. And this is one of the main things that we work with teams on. We help them do the behavior.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, there is, you know, once you understand the psychology of human behavior, you really start to understand and see patterns. We started with the idea that behavioral economics shows that people act in irrational ways, but we do it in predictable ways. And so once you start understanding this, you can really start designing for the behavior change at this kind of predictable level.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because you're helping kind of create the right for wrong reason, giving people the wrong reason to do the behavior that they actually want to do. We added a deadline to Kiva Slow for when their borrowers were signing up and we increased their conversion. So obviously you can use this in ways that are unintended and it really has some upside to help people.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. Yeah. And so again, all these things, you know, the possibility of using anything for negative outcomes exists. And really, it's about the incentives is what is your incentive to drive the customer benefit? And that's really where we say you have to be measuring the customer outcomes. You have to be focused on the customer outcomes. And, you know, some of the toughest teams we have understanding this aren't nonprofits. So we worked with one company a while ago. We tried to get them to add a deadline because they were trying to help people sign up for interviews. So like they were basically filtering people before staples would get them for an interview. So they'd do the interview prep, they'd help them show up for the interview. But the reality is that like sometimes people miss this stuff. It takes a long time to get to the interview. And so our push to them was to add a deadline to help people show up. Sometimes we say deadlines are.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To levels of status in Clubhouse or the people who were friends with the people on stage. And then there was everyone else. And so that was like a motivator to be friends with more people and start following people so that you could be in that little, you know, bucket of friends with other people. So we're giving people kind of some other reasons to do a thing that they may want to do, but they don't necessarily have the motivation to do it right away. If you think about Peloton, you know, yes, I want to work out. Yes, I want to have a healthy person, but maybe I want to go to the class because the instructor may give me a shout out. Or there is some streak that I'm trying to continue, right? So they're right for wrong here is like the real reason to work out is to improve my physical health. But wow, I just want that instructor to give me a shout out.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When we think about right for wrong, we're helping people again do the right thing. So this is a behavior that they want to do, but the reason is actually probably not related. So if you think about just vaccines and what we saw here, like the reason to get a vaccine is to help my neighbor and prevent them from getting sick. And yet what happened? We gave people donuts, give people free pot or marijuana. There were lottery tickets in Ohio. So this is the right for wrong idea where you're really substituting. By the way, there's one of the bigger voting interventions is just having pizza show up at the poll line, right? You're motivating people to go vote, not because they want to contribute to democracy, but because there's pizza in the poll line. So at some level, we're pretty simple human where we want an immediate benefit. Clubhouse actually was an interesting example of this at some level where you saw”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“about completing a step versus the benefit that would come to them after. So the benefit of sinking their bank account was actually huge. You'd get to see your income. You're really actually changing someone's financial picture by doing it. And they're signing up for it. They know it. But the small immediate benefit is how you're framing each step. Each step is going to give you the immediate benefit. So for this one, it was a completion bias thing again where people are motivated to complete something. Sometimes we'll do an error message if it's really important for the app to work. And again, that's not, you shouldn't do that all the time. But if it's really important, the benefit is actually decreasing that error message on the screen. We call this right for wrong doing the right thing for the wrong reason, where the right thing may be completing the flow, but the wrong reason is seeing that error message go away. Again, I would use that with caution. People will not use and love your app if you're putting error messages all over it.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. So actually, benefits can be, there's two ways to do benefits one is the actual one that a consumer has. So right, Asana and the like collaborative communicator versus maybe one that's more immediate. And so when we're thinking about more immediate benefits, this could actually be things like social norms where you're telling people everybody else is doing something. And to them, the benefit of doing this is following the hurt. We all like, by the way, don't like to think that we're part of the herd, but we all will succumb to this at some point in our lives. And so, you know, one example is where we worked with a company called Study and this was a fintech app and we're helping people to sign up or sync their bank account, syncing their bank account is a required step in any kind of fintech app and yet so difficult big drop off point. And just by reframing the choices of getting someone to think”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“How it would fit in their life to how does it actually fit in their life and keeping them going, you know, if it's a long sign up flow and people need to drop out, how do you send them reminders to pull them back in? And then when they are back in, land them on the spot that they were at. So Wealthfront has said, you know, one of their key insights was when people dropped out of the flow, you know, normally they would just put people back at the beginning. It's really frustrating if you can put people back where they landed, they're more likely to continue.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, you know, I would caveat all this with like behavior is contextual. So, you know, why we are religious about testing is because it's hard to drag and drop from different context. So I'd caveat it with that. And of course, there are some rules of thumb. So one thing really is about showing people the benefit right away. So really not under or overestimating that people understand the benefit of your app. And so how do you get them to experience it immediately? I'd say that's one. And then the other is really just the, you know, reducing, I hate to sound so simplistic, but this is, you know, a lot of it is about making things easier logistically and cognitively and making the benefit much more clear salient. We say moving it from abstract to concrete. Like you really want to move something from the world of people can't really imagine.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like, what is this company or thing? And where should I, what should I go to them for? And then the benefits, right? What are the benefits? And the benefits for using One Medical is you get your questions answered immediately. It's very simple, but you can really get your health questions and issues addressed. And so the simple intervention we did was just during onboarding, we asked people a few questions about their health, mental, sleep, physical. We then recommended a provider. So instead of having lots of choice, decrease the choice, recommended them one provider, told them why, and then recommended appointment times and limited the amount of appointment times. It was for tomorrow. We recommended a virtual appointment. So it would be a quick thing that you could do from your home. And then that. Bookings by 20% during onboarding.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. So after lots of debate, we came up with the key behavior to target basically somebody setting up a doctor's appointment right after signing up for one medical. And this is really important because more likely than not, you're going to sign up for one medical. Six months later, you're going to get a fever and get sick. And are you going to remember this app that you sign up for six months ago? Probably not. You're going to do the same thing you did before, which is called the doctor that you've normally gone to. So really important for one medical upfront during onboarding to set the mental model of what they can be used for and going to that doctor's appointment. So then we looked at the barriers, what are the barriers, like who is going to be your provider, your doctor, like picking somebody is hard, finding a time, an appointment time is hard. You know, we're all busy people. How are you going to fit it in, knowing actually what one medical can help you with also difficult.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, exactly. But that's the real question what does engagement mean. Actually, a fun exercise that people could do with their teams is if you ask everyone on the team what engagement means separately, you can compare answers. And most likely people are saying different things. You guys can't agree internally on what to do or what engagement means. It's very difficult to build a product by which your users understand what to do.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so we worked on one medical to basically one medical ass is to increase engagement. This is a classic question. How do you increase engagement in a product or service? Right. Engagement.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, we actually only got two conditions in product, which for us is we would like more. And it was, you know, we don't know if we're going to get a second bad at this. So we said, well, two conditions plus the control. But what should those two conditions be? So for us, it was like, we want to de-risk the launch as much as possible.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I would say basically if you're looking at a new problem, very tempting to talk to five users in the beginning, we would basically say, look, go spend a day on the internet Googling to see what else has been done. And Google Scholar is a great place to start. Like hot tips would just be making sure you're searching the right keyword. So if you're looking at something in healthcare, you'd want to know what are the buzzwords for chronic care and things that would actually drive you to a meta-analysis that would summarize what's already been done. So Google Scholar, great place to start. And then coming up with the hypothesis and putting them to test, you never, we never do a study, a UX study where we're just showing people one thing because they could really like it or hate it, but they could really like or hate all the designs. We have no idea. So when we're doing this, we always present multiple options and then relatively look for which one is going.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, he didn't measure the idea, like, do people like this? We measured a condition against another condition. So relatively what condition is more likely to work than the other condition. And that would increase our intuition that it would work in market. We're not saying that studies outside of the product are end all be all, but it's going to drive our intuition up a lot more.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Put five different versions of the pop up in front of over a thousand users, which we got a user from Prolific, which is a platform where you can easily test things. didn't measure that.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it's actually a pretty involved process. So, first, we did a literature review, which is basically saying, like, look, we're not the first people to think about this. Talk to the expert and understand what has worked and what hasn't. So with that, actually one of the insights was that reminding people about their value of accuracy. So most people want to be accurate. Most people actually don't want to share misinformation. And so if you can remind people the point of sharing, by the way, doesn't work if you remind people before or after. Like it's at the point of sharing that this is unverified information. Studies have shown that this could decrease share. So we took that piece. We also took this, you know, like the hot and cold state literature that says if you actually don't want to get someone to do something, how do you intervene? So we did this literature review. We came up with a hypothesis and we had probably 30 different ways to implement this because the hypothesis is just a starting point. And then we put it into quantitative research.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And these are tactics that Facebook and Twitter are also using to slow people down. This was actually one of the first published studies that showed that this drove down misinformation.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, yeah. And so that's kind of what we did for TikTok, which is basically you're in a very hot state. TikTok is a very fast platform. And so we just slowed people down. So two things. There was a label on the video, which is kind of classic in the misinformation world where you tell users that it's unverified information. And the second thing was once you click the share button, we popped up something that said, are you sure? And this was basically slowing people down. So logistical friction and actually cognate of friction because we're asking people to reconsider a prior decision and question theirself. And so with that, both those things, the label on the video and the pop-up, reduce shares by 24%.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of bear is yeah, actually, a nice example of eight, there's an elevator study where basically you want people to use the stairs. And so what the researchers did was make the elevator door close 16 seconds longer. So now you're getting the elevator, you're annoyed, it's harder to use the elevator, and people went to the stairs.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. So TikTok is obviously a big platform. And with any big social media platform, they have misinformation on it. So this is not just a problem with TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter habit. And misinformation is growing. And so they asked us to help decrease the spread of misinformation on their platform. So there's lots of ways that we could take that. And the first thing that we did, as we kind of do with any companies, think about what is the behavior that you want to change. And so we narrowed on decreasing shares. So we could have said likes, you know, we could have said comments or general engagement, which is a broad thing, but we narrow not decreasing the shares. So when you're actually going to see a misinformation video, we want to decrease the number of people that share it. So that was the first step. And the second step is this, you know, 3B model. How do we think about the barriers? And so, you know, with TikTok, the thing.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was a good lesson in incentive to die. And by the way, at that point, Lending Club was offering good rates to borrower. So there was efficacy in the idea of it, which is lending clubs lending to people who have lower FICO and with better rate. And yet you still want to have, you know, you don't want to become the predatory lender in that situation.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Can I say reveal the intervention that we did, but I did miss it, so there was a five point by the way, point not percentage bunk, which is a lot. And we got 4.5. So we all looked at it, but you know, it's a clip, it doesn't work that way. Almost soldier.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think for us, there's two tips. One would be to set the incentive on the behavior because the behavior is going to align more with the customer outcomes than the active use or the retention. And of course, and I'm not suggesting we don't measure active use and retention and these things, you should definitely measure them. But setting the incentive and the KPI and the product and the marketing team on the behavior is going to result in a more customer friendly product and outcome. And then second would be increasing the duration of the incentive. So if you're trying to hit a quarterly outcome, you're likely going to do things that will impact the short term to give that a bump. If you're trying to hit an annual or even longer outcome, you're going to be looking out for the best interest of the company and the consumers in a little bit different way.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“As your incentive structure, right? So my incentive structure was to increase the conversion flow. And over the course of working with them, I became a predatory lender. Was suggesting things. That the legal team was like, no, Kristen, of course, you cannot do that. And setting some context, I was at that time leading a Duke University lab called Common Sense Lab. It was focused on motor moderate income Americans, thinking about their financial health, building saving vaps for them. So here I am, this kind of like do good nonprofit, very focused on financial health of Americans. And my other cat was Predator Lender for Lending Club, right? And so it's really about the incentives that we're giving ourselves and our team that will drive how anything is used, much less behavioral economics or these tactics, but generally the success of your team.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it's a great question. I think the answer to this really many things in life comes down to incentives. So what are the incentives of the product team, of you, your manager, the team working on this? I like to say kind of we are what we measure. And it really matters what you measure. So I'll give you a personal example. Lending club a while ago hired me to increase their conversion flow for borrowers. So they're a lending. And they wanted to get more borrowers in the flow. The novel thing here was that they would pay me a lot of money if I hit a bump. It was like a five-point bump and zero if I didn't hit anything.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. And so, this is a tough one because we want to believe that people really do and use our product for the end benefit, but we really need to give people the reason to do it today.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, exactly. And yeah, so what correlates with retention and what provides kind of an immediate value to them by doing this behavior.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I would say the activation milestone and the novel thing here is just getting really specific about this behavior so much that if you're not arguing with your teammates, you're doing it wrong.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, you know, I don't know how much emphasis to put on these kind of like, you know, confetti stuff. I think the idea of being done is that psychological understanding that you completed it confetti or not is very powerful.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Cool. So the third B is benefits. So this is where you want to increase the, not just benefits, but the immediate benefits of doing something. So we are all present biased, which means we prioritize our present self over our future self. So there are plenty of reasons that somebody, your customer, your user should take an action, but you actually have to give them a reason to take an action today. So as an example, if you're Asana and you're trying to get someone to log a task, the right thing for them to do is log the task because it's going to get their project done on time. You're going to have a collaborative and communicative team that you're going to want to be on. But one of the real reasons we may log a task is because of completion bias. We want to see the checkbox. We may log it because of social desirability bias where other people see that we're getting our work done. There's a notification that goes to my teammate.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And same with status quo effect where we kind of underlying status quo effect is this idea that we always take the path, not always, but majority don't really say always when you're talking about human behavior. Human behavior is very complex, but more often than not, we take the path of least resistant. So we do the thing that's easiest. And typically the thing that's easiest is the thing that we've done yesterday and the day before. And so when you're asking someone to do something different, which is what most product, especially startups, are trying to do, you actually have to increase their motivation or make it easier, reduce the barriers to get them to do that. And so status quo effect is a big one that folks are fighting.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So uncertainty aversion when something is uncertain or we're not, so I'll give you an example if you're Lyft, there's logistical friction, which is wait time. But then there's also this uncertainty of is it going to come on time? When is it going to come? And with this uncertainty, you're probably going to look for other options. You're going to open up Uber and say like maybe it'll come factor. And so when there is uncertainty in our life, we either look for other options or we just don't make a decision at all, right? This is, by the way, very big in healthcare, where when you're very uncertain about something, you may not even go to the doctor or you may just make the wrong decision.”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Cognitive, so the cognitive barriers get in our way as well. These are things like uncertainty aversion. This is optimism bias, information aversion, right? These are the things that would prevent status quo, big one, is just you do the same thing today that you did yesterday. Your job is a”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Consulting teams would be like, we need to get uncomfortably specific, we say just really specific in the behavior. So example, if I'm Peloton PM and I'm working on the app, I would say something like within seven days of somebody starting the app, they do two, 10 minute workouts with two different instructors. Now, obviously that is wildly specific and you'd probably be very happy if they did one workout with one instructor. But the reality is if you don't define that behavior, you're going to change, you can't actually define the psychologies that affect someone's decision making when doing that behavior. So that's the first B. Second B, again, is probably pretty obvious and is very critical is just barriers. So we need to reduce the barriers to doing the behavior. And there are two types of barriers we look at. One is logistical. So this is just the stuff in our way. It could be entering a credit card, could be any form field. And then the second is...”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Totally. And there are so many mistakes that humans make, and we can call them biases heuristics. Our team uses psychologies. What are the psychologies that drive us? And so to tackle this, our team basically has created a model of behavior change. We call the three B's. And this summarizes the most important psychologies that drive user that are important to the product manager and the marketers. We've used this at Google, Microsoft, LinkedIn, so all the companies that we work with, and they now use it. And so the first B, so three B framework, first B is actually not a psychology, but it is the most important part of behavior change. And it should kind of be obvious. Like if you think about behavior change, behavioral economics, it is behavior. In order to change behavior, you have to pick a behavior that you want to change. So companies are really good at outcomes, but just not as sharp at picking the behavior. When I say behavior, I mean action. The thing that you want someone to do. By the way, the only wrong answer here is log in. So it's really, it's not about logging in. It's about what you do after you log in. And when we're”
2022-10-02 · Lenny's Podcast · Using behavioral science to improve your product | Kristen Berman (Irrational Labs) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source