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Kristin Kallergis Rowland

lines on the record: 64
first: 2025-05-26
most recent: 2025-05-26
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Professional, it's just the access to alternatives because I truly think this is like a fundamental problem if we don't figure out how to give access to private markets and private companies to individuals when they think about their long-term needs and portfolios. So that's a cheesy and probably cliche thing to say, but it's truly where we're focused. And personally, just raising really good people. My daughter is a total sweetheart, but there's a lot of influences out there in the world for our children, whether it's Jonathan Hyder or others that I like read about this anxious generation and what's to come. It does concern me. And so I just want to make sure that she's got a good life and the soon-to-be boy has a new life too.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would have never imagined getting to work internationally. I would have never imagined being in the same firm for 17 years. I've been with my husband for over 20 years since we were itty bitty. And then I have an amazing daughter and family that I'm really excited about and one went on the way.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And every morning I was like the coffee girl. If you were good at it, they'd keep asking you to do it the next day. Every day there were seven orders for coffee. And one of the gentlemen wanted a half decaf, half regular with five ice cubes, seven shakes of vanilla and two tablespoons of half and half. I did it every day because I was like, they're paying me to go get coffee. This is the best. And then at the end of the summer, they match my bonus with my entire salary for the summer. And they said, this is because you never complained once about getting the coffee. It was one of those lessons of sometimes people are just testing you in ways that you don't know, but those were my two first intern stories before I landed at JP Morgan.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was an intern at Morgan Stanley in our Lake Forest, Illinois office, which is where I'm from. And at the end of the summer, they offered me my bonus in cash or Apple stock. And I picked cash. It was the dumbest thing I could have done. So that was lesson number one. But I will say lesson number two. A year later, I worked at UBS for a neighbor of mine.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Probably yoga. I was going to say paddle tennis because I'm like a Chicago gal and we love playing paddle tennis, but my husband is a serious paddle tennis player and I'm like not. So he'd be like, are you serious? That's what you picked. But if I had even more time, I'd probably keep playing paddle tennis.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Clients understanding what they own. It's a big one, especially on the drawdown side. Meaning we've done a good job so far, but as more and more people come into a space and investing, just understanding what that is, making sure that you're buying things that actually are working towards meeting your long-term goals. Number two is when you think about all these markets opening up, there's still a lot of these that haven't been tested yet. And there are some places that are priced to perfection. There are parts of the credit markets that are, I won't say all, but having to explain the differences is really important.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Understanding the role that equities and bonds play with each other and figuring out where there's places where you can access some of these megatrends.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We've spent a lot of time lately on themes outside the US. So whether it's places like Japan or Developed Europe, sports media entertainment is an ecosystem that we as a bank have a lot of intelligence in, both from our clients and our overall capabilities in that space, as those markets open up to private market investors at the end of last year was things like the NFL opening up. There's a lot of things changing in baseball, hockey, et cetera. And it's a place that our clients understand and are really interested in. We have favored more of the lending side to the equation. We'll probably make some investments on the equity side. If you believe that volatility is here to stay, the concept of thinking through portfolio resiliency, when we came out with our outlook for the year and the things that we were most focused on, it was the number one most click thing out there. Like our clients are really trying to think of understanding the concentration in public markets, especially in things like the S&P.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Returns, we've added sector specialization. We started nine years ago in real estate, eight years ago in infrastructure, six, seven years ago in venture growth. A lot of those shifts were really just like the lens in which we looked at the world and how we packaged it for a client. Most families just want your best thinking. If you told me that your target return over the long haul was nine or ten percent, which is going to be US large cap equities in long-term capital market assumptions, you don't need venture in your portfolio to achieve that. So we've just kind of shifted into recognizing that we can build create portfolios. We have great choice. It does come with diversification underneath and having multiple skill sets. As the world's opening up, it's not just allocating to primary funds, it's allocating these evergreen portfolios, it's allocating to secondary portfolios. Some of these markets are opening up in a way that we wouldn't have imagined 15 years ago.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“2011, we did this whole shift towards building portfolios for our clients. We looked at some of the data, realized that when you made a portfolio decision versus a la carte, you helped clients building diversification. Then we learned a lot of lessons around investing in a more cyclical sectors and longer-term structures. We invested in Brazilian private equity. And even though we did great on a local currency, we did not do great on a dollar basis. And all things considered, we made a few mistakes, but they continue to inform us about how we actually want to build portfolios. And then we would have maybe a dozen ideas a year. Now we have close to three dozen ideas a year. And we've hired a lot of people who've come from great organizations that come from portfolio building and they've realized that in private markets, for example, the optimal number of funds in a portfolio should actually be between, it's like 22 and 27 funds, where as we've started shifting there and offering more choice, our clients, we're like, aren't you diluting returns? And it was actually very...”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I know that I'll pay whatever my water bill says and whatever my electricity says, right? And a lot of the income is CPI adjusted. So for all those reasons, infrastructure has been a place that our clients have certainly leaned into. The institutional world got there almost a decade ago. Most of those institutional portfolios can be high single digits, even low double digits. They've replaced traditional liquid fixed income with that. Clients over the last four or five years have started to. It's starting to really accelerate.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then hedge funds. We went from a period in 2014 where we made a strategic asset allocation shift downwards in hedge funds as we thought that rates were going to stay lower for longer. So our strategic asset allocation is 10%. We had negative flows for a period of almost seven years. And then in 2019-2020, we saw flows come back into that market. And we've seen significant flows accelerate since then. So the shift towards building portfolio resiliency in areas like uncorrelated hedge funds in places like real assets, those are some big shifts. And then the last thing I'll say, which is probably the first thing I should have mentioned, is the move into infrastructure investments has been pretty phenomenal. Part of that is because one of the biggest questions on people's minds over the last couple years is the future of inflation. And a lot of these infrastructure portfolios, you have 20 to 30 year contracts. You're on super monopolistic underlying subsectors of the economy.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The era of doing a lot of co invest in the growth and venture space has gone away. And we didn't do that much of it. There were a lot of other platforms that had done a lot of it. Most of those things are starting to come to fruition. So direct investing, even our largest families is less than 5% of their portfolios, which surprises me because it takes up a lot of conversation because you get excited about those things. So they're moving more towards portfolios. Most recently, folks are especially given all of the innovation taking place within artificial intelligence, reinvesting again in venture and growth is certainly a top theme. In private equity, what surprised me is that people are moving back towards the core diversified holdings. The managers that are multi-sector are great operators by background and can drive returns. There's been a shift within that private equity line of our choice into the core diversified holdings. In private credit, people are starting to think about other sources of income, not just direct lending and having corporate exposure there.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“On the equity side, not yet. Credit side, we definitely have, even over the last three years, we've probably seen about 25 basis points lower on the management fee side. And on the carry. On the private equity side, there's a lot less people that have enough levers to put into an evergreen portfolio and continue to invest and take in monthly or quarterly flows into the portfolio. There's a premium being paid on the private equity side. Like most of these fund managers, you're paying, if not $2.20 slightly more than that because they're still helping you from a convenience perspective of dealing with your own invested cash and getting access to co-invest in other areas in the market.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Invest a cash. How do you think about making decisions over the long term? How do you think about vintage your diversification? There's still a significant portion of our clients that only ever invested in one fund. And then they were like, well, wait for it to see returns. And the J curve is a real thing that takes three to four years. Or of the income-oriented things we've moved towards the evergreen, we prefer the evergreen. So in places like direct lending, corplus real estate, and even value out a little bit, and in infrastructure investment, the core core plus space, we prefer a lot of the evergreen strategies. And then in the more directional private equity, definitely growth venture. We prefer draw-down funds.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Most of these fund managers in the private market evergreen space, they're still less than 500 of them that exist today. Hold anywhere between 15 to 25% in liquid securities. And they do charge higher fees. In certain areas like credit, it's actually pretty minimal. Most of our senior secure direct lending, we've moved almost entirely to Evergreen portfolios. In private equity, I would still say our first thought is start with a drawdown fund for most of the managers that we're looking at and then think about the Evergreen portfolio, but return dilution is anywhere from two to five hundred basis points. The question is, is it really dilutive to you? Were you investing the uninvested cash? Because a lot of these firms make assumptions that your uninvested cash, you're still earning six, seven percent. A lot of people just don't. They leave it in cash because they just never want to be in a situation where they can't fund a capital call. So when we advise our clients about it, we first ask them 10 questions that are really about how do you invest your own?”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And not know when you're going to call capital or distribute capital. And if they trust in you, they want you to do it for them. So I do think these evergreen portfolios are solving, I'm not going to say problems, but a lot of the annoyance of allocating to traditional drawdown funds. And that's why I think the momentum is just going to continue from here.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you look at fundraising across the industry on the drawdown side, it's been in decline the last three years. If you look at my business, it's been up last year, surpassed even 2021. More clients coming into wealth, these access points opening up, the evergreen space interval funds, there's been debate about what's the future of a lot of these draw-down spaces. For managers that are in what I call no man's land, and this is what I mean by that, your returns are somewhere between 11 to 14% net returns is what you've delivered. And you are looking to lock up your capital for 10 to 15 years. And no one ever ends on time. If you're in that zone for individuals and taxpayers, there's not a lot of bid for those type of portfolios unless it's super diversifying or very niche oriented because many people would rather accept eight to ten percent returns go into these private market evergreen portfolios and compound that money and not have to make new investment decisions every two to three years to recommit to a fund manager.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is a significant one. And then all of a sudden you run into a 2022 period where if you're an institution and you're tied to a mandate and you can't have more than 17% in private equity, it doesn't matter how good that GP is, you're not going to your board to get approval for the next fund, especially at a time where distributions paid in from existing funds are at the lowest level they've been at since the Great Financial Crisis. The reason why most recently it's interesting is because one, people are reminded of the diversification benefits of individuals' capital. Two, their shops are set up to be able to work that client relationship. There's a structuring aspect where there's platforms that will do this for the GP so that they don't have to handle all the administrative stuff. I think it's like all coming together, technology, et cetera, at the exact same time with these new structures that are coming that are allowing people to invest. And then allowing GPs to have other people take care of the admin for them.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's probably twofold. For many, many years, I had to convince great general partners to want private bank capital, individuals capital. And a lot of people just saw it as way easier to go to some institution, work really hard with a CIO, and get a $100 million check. And they didn't want to deal with all the administration of the tiny little tickets we've been investing since the 80s and 90s and the early 2000s, we really started going to some of the best GPs in the world to partner with them. And they just did it as an experiment. They just wanted to try it out. They'd give you $50 million or $200 million. And then all of a sudden, 0809 happened. And there were certain asset classes like private debt and real estate that were ahead of others in terms of accepting individuals' capital and appreciating that it was very diversified capital. The re-up rate for individuals is pretty high, but especially for a firm. I might not have the client re-up with you if you're a GP, but I likely have new clients that also want to invest. The diversification aspect of it.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Lot of these families that we serve in Chase want to do the goals based analysis, want to figure this out. Myself, Anton Pill, who oversees our entire global alternative investment solutions across asset and wealth management, we fundamentally believe that the access shouldn't be limited to those that are the wealthiest. And so we want to expand that access elsewhere, especially if you consider the fact that the universe of investing, if you look over the last 20 years, people talk about the number of public listed companies has been in a significant decline or outside the US, access to these markets, it's mainly the private markets. And so we see this as a fundamental issue, that if you want to get access to the real economy, you need access to private markets. And so we're going to look to roll this out in the coming quarters, but we want to do it with the right structure, the right economics, and the right alignment. Our client base and our advisors that are giving us feedback in terms of how we build these portfolios are very excited about what's to come.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Buyer beware for a long time. There's more choice available, and so there's more competition from a manager perspective to make sure that the economics are appropriate.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We haven't done much up until recently. We are creating our own as the industry evolved in private credit, which is the main source of the interval funds. We preferred tender offer funds versus interval. We preferred the concept that in some of the worst market drawdowns that a fund manager could or a board could say, it's not the right time to sell. The industry has now evolved and it's mature enough to think that there are appropriate interval funds out there. And as a portfolio manager, if you're managing a portfolio of underlying funds, you love interval funds because you know that you're going to find some way to get that capital back. Our view on it is certainly shifting over the last couple years, but I still think there's some places like in the non-treated REITs and other places where I'm glad that they had more of the tender offer feature to them. A lot of people built interval funds to access the retail investor. And it came with a lot of fees and a lot of stuff in them. We were.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There are ways in which you can build portfolios of insurance dedicated funds that will help solve some of this. We've started doing that. So that's part of the answer. Part of the answer is also clients are putting these in their retirement accounts. There's limits as to how you do that. But I always go back to what's your funding source and what's it solving in your portfolio. If you asked us 10 years ago, the funding source for most hedge funds was equity, and that's completely shifted, even in our portfolios, the funding source is fixed income. So if I can try to earn equity like returns with fixed income volatility, even when you consider taxes, I still think that you can get a premium over just traditional fixed income. Even though stock bond correlations have come down most recently, we've just come out of a period where they certainly didn't provide the same diversification. And so we try to focus less on taxes. There's enough evidence that gives us confidence to continue to invest in uncorrelated hedge fund strategies. Be aware of the taxes, but not be overly concerned if it truly adds portfolio diversification.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then just take what you can on the tax side for private equity and the equity oriented solutions, there's going to be a massive shift over the next couple years. We, JP Morgan, have made some strategic investments on the technology side in firms like 55IP and others that can help us understand this. But I do think that we have a long way to go.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Tax aware strategies or tax loss harvesting that's moving into alternatives. We've tried that in places like doing insurance dedicated funds and there's differences between whether you want an annuity, a non-annuity. I still think there's a lot of work that needs to be done around that space. Both educating clients but also making sure that you have the right investments behind it. Someone did tell me once just because you put ketchup on a meal and it tastes great. If it didn't taste great without the ketchup, it's not a great meal, right? It's a bad analogy because I don't love ketchup. But the point is with taxes, we are trying to think about how do we build tax aware alternative sleeves in places like hedge funds and private credit.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Start by saying we don't give tax advice. It's interesting because there's two sides of the tax equation. One is the fact that just over 40% of the capital that we allocate to fund managers comes from non-US clients. So there are certain structures that in private credit are much more beneficial to non-U.S. investors like a business development company, whether it's traded or non-traded public or private. The fact that you're not paying the same effectively connected income as a non-US investor changes the entire return stream. There were funds that on average in the direct lending space would take off 200 basis points of return if you were a non-US investor. BDCs helped some of that. So there are structural differences and then anything real assets oriented, real estate, infrastructure, they were part of that effectively connecting income world. So a lot of that you can solve for in structure today. A lot of it, not all of it. For US taxpayers, there's this whole shift that's taking place around asset location, not just asset allocation. And so it started in the long only side and even on the ETS side with some of these like”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In line. But then if you really want to be a great partner to us and you see those opportunistic type trades, it's making sure that clients love alignment. As most people do, but especially in opportunistic trades is aligning the economics to whatever the opportunity set is.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That there are step ups in economics is important, it'll depend on each subasset class. Lower returns, we obviously are going to continue to drive returns economics lower for the higher return oriented places. It's just understanding what the waterfall is going to be. I would also say when there's opportunistic trades in the market. So there was one of our greatest partners in the technology space that in March of 2020 wanted to make a call on more liquid markets. We created a structure with them that was a zero and 20 structure, so 0% management fee, 20% incentive fee. That got struck at the end of the fund life. The reason we did that was because we felt like it was more of a beta play, but there's still a lot of clients that in March of 2020 didn't invest in tech stocks. We could raise a billion dollars in the matter of days, get that invest in the market. It was supposed to be a two-year term. A year later, that manager said the opportunity set's mostly played out. And so they distributed in kind the top 10 stocks. But I bring that up because most people just look across the industry and say, am I somewhat?”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It'll depend on every subsector. Private credit's a good example of where when you invested 10 years ago, you would make sure that you weren't paying on committed capital. You'd pay on invested capital. But as a returns come down, so should the fees. We're always focused on the net return. And then we're making sure that whatever the economics that a fund manager is driving is truly either for their business or for future investments. rarely take GP economics. We do from time to time, but we're mostly focused on how do you generate the best net returns if we're going to bring in institutional sized capital. We want to make sure that we get most favored nations and that discount, we'll work hard to get those for our clients because we think it's appropriate. not pushing a manager too hard on that because you want to make sure that if they have a new generation of partners that are coming up in venture and growth you don't get a lot of that carried interest for several years so paying a higher management fee is more appropriate but then making sure”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You aggregate all the investment activity you're doing, there's a lot of market power you're bringing to bear as a big investor in the space. How do you think about the right level of extraction? So you could think about that as a fee discount for your client. You could think about it as a partnership with the manager where you're part of a GP.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“10 to 20 percent of that is managed by us, where we can build a portfolio that our clients trust in us. And then the rest is based on where there's client demand. That's going to shift over the years ahead more and more clients don't want to have to choose between manager and manager B, similar to how we build their overall portfolios. They just want to say, do you think this can meet my long-term needs? And if so, I trust in you to build something for me.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Diligence team will bring a fund manager to investment review committee every week, and we'll have two to four managers that are presented on a regular basis. It starts with our investment review community process, which we have an entire presentation about whether it's people, philosophy process, and how do you generate consistent alpha over the long term, all the things that you'd expect. We have our own in-house operational diligence team. That's a big part of it. You can have a great investment, but if you're not operationally set up to do it, it's going to be hard for us to invest. We kept all of our structuring in-house, whether we set up a vehicle or whether you could be direct to the fund. The actual investment decisions, it's rare that you get to investment committee and something's a no because you've already worked on all these processes before then. It's matching the, can you deliver your historical returns on a go forward basis with demand? There are great ideas out there, but if clients aren't allocating to a certain space, I don't want to waste either side's time. Let's say if we invest $30 billion a year.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A lot of people say we have X number of meetings a year. Just our investment professionals. We've tracked for the last several years over 3,000 meetings a year. There's a lot of people that do that. But most of the time at JP Morgan, we joke that it's bringing the JPMorgan bus. It's people like myself that work with clients. It's the portfolio manager. It's the due diligence person that we're all building and learning together. That sounds very inefficient, but in practice it works just the way in which we run discipline around trying to give quick no and spend time on the longer yeses, we can pretty quickly distill down who are like our top 15 to 25 targets in a certain area or the companies based on some of the cross line of business partnerships and so forth.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The fact that we're one of the biggest spenders of technology as a firm helps us understand the product. We spend over $800 million on cyber every year to keep our clients safe. That gives us really good intel into a tech manager or cyber manager that's telling us that they have a great product. Having just been at this event, the founders themselves who said one of the best places to test your product is JPMorgan because you have such specialists in these areas. In that ecosystem, we actually use a lot of the bank's knowledge to understand the products and then we figure out the luck versus skill. What did they bring to the table? How do they add value to those companies? And how do they build portfolios over time? Because we do also allow our clients to invest direct to cap tables for a lot of these investments. I think the total number, it's trillions of dollars that we spend in technology overall, but there are some sectors like healthcare in the VC market where given our healthcare practice, we can really understand which businesses are going to scale longer term versus the feature versus a”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Even like First Republic, it opened up our eyes a lot of those clients within that community. And I just finished a conference of our top 82 founders and top 50 venture growth managers. And we're building this ecosystem on this innovation economy that everyone from Jamie down to everyone that covers these clients really believes in. So TBD and a lot of this stuff.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the private equity group, they were day one investors in probably in eight of the top ten since the beginning. So they've had super long-term access. If you look at our client portfolios, even for the largest families, venture allocations was still less than 5%. It was 4.85%. We do have a big client base. We do have a lot of capital at work, but the allocations are still small. There's other parts of the venture market that are opening up, like secondary venture. So a lot of our clients love that area because you can build diversified portfolios. And there's only a few managers that do it really well, we think. We're at this point in venture where everything's changing, where there's a ton of spinouts and there's just given the market environment over the last couple years in terms of valuation reset, the dollars available versus the dollars that are being raised, how we talked about venture 20 years ago versus how we're going to talk about it for the next even five or ten years will be drastically different. The banking system as a whole changed the way in which we serve venture. And when we acquire”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Even if you're doing it on behalf of clients, you're still managing a large war chest compared to the potential opportunity set. So how have you gone about trying to get access to the funds you think are important to have in the venture side?”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The concept of fund of funds for core portfolios, but in venture, it's certainly somewhere where it's one of those things that's hard to do yourself, pick and choose, not to mention the choices in available. And you don't want to work with the firms that just need capital. And then the question is on a go-forward basis, what does venture look like? Because I think a lot of these venture firms, you would look at the checks that they're putting in and the stage that they're in, and you wouldn't really say they were traditional venture. You'd say they're multi-stage. So we'll see how that evolves over the next two to three years.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We did some analysis because we hired someone to lead our venture and growth initiative maybe seven years ago. 2012, 2013, when sort of the hybrid crossover market and growth equity market really started opening up. We only had a couple managers. He came in and maybe 17 or 18, we said, you're doing a lot of elite stage growth, which has worked. But if you really want adventure returns. And we know that the dispersion in private equity is 17% between top and bottom quartile inventure at something like 27%. You probably should invest unless you're going to get access to some of the best. A lot of people assume that the best were like the best names, the longest term names. And he had this view that it was really funds that were between 50 and 250 million dollars. But a lot of our clients, to your point, can't just allocate capital. The venture firms aren't going to be able to grow with you. So there's places like venture where we'll build portfolios. It's one of the places that we tell our clients to consider fund of funds. There are some that have gotten over.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If I can be a lender in sports media entertainment, there's some of these subsectors that are really fascinating to us where we think you can still get a premium over just generic private credit.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Probably by about 200 basis points on average. And then in the opportunistic credit side, we actually like those that can focus on microcycles to be smaller managers. So we think that they can drive significant alpha, that they don't need a broad distress sell-off for them to generate returns. The market and most allocations are overweight direct lending and don't have enough of the opportunistic credit. There's good reason for that. There were time periods where folks were overexposed to the more cyclical subsectors like energy and consumer. And so they got out of that space. But the recent years, there's been an overconcentration in some sectors like software that we have yet to see how that plays out. We focused initially on the direct lenders. We'd always done some opportunistic microcycle trades like coming out of the crisis we did commercial mortgage-backed securities, residential mortgage-backed securities, non-performing loans in Europe, where we're focusing now on more asset-backed lending or”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We started allocating in 07. There was certainly differentiation as this whole shift was happening out of the banks and into the private markets. A lot of people talk about how new this asset class is. We don't think it's new. We just think it's shifted. Although I did see within the overall private credit industry, you now have to differentiate between direct lending. So you think of the corporate private credit market as someone said something like $3 trillion and a trillion and a half has been raised. But then you look at asset-backed lending and it's like over a $20 trillion mark if then only a half a trillion dollars been raised. So all these things are shifting. But if we started on the direct lending side and we started with large-scale managers, that's where we thought there was going to be a benefit to not just having beta, but also generating a little bit of alpha. And it makes sense. Most of those individual companies want to deal with one lender in a time of crisis. So we've skewed on the direct lending side towards larger scale managers as that market continues to evolve and as the banks start to get back into some of these areas, we do think returns are going to come down.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You turn over to private credit, the structure of where assets are flowing private credits totally different. Much more concentrated. How have you thought about that and bringing that asset class to your clients”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In some areas that are getting more and more crowded, like private credit, I think that'll be one of the bigger hurdles on a go forward basis. And then knowing those stress points in the market, like how you treated your partners across the board, those would probably be the three things.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“People or what matter the most? I feel that way partly because that's what we think of JP Morgan too. You can tell those subtle differences when you're meeting these teams over and over again how they communicate with each other, how they talk about winning deals together, the consistency of how long a partner's been there. Do partner attribution analysis for all these fund managers. There's usually a story behind all of it. So I do think the people and the culture totally matters. There's one firm we work with that when a person at the top of the house gets close to the age of 60, they choose to pass on their career to the next generation. And so it's led to them being a very big shop and continuing to have multi-generational exceptional performance. The people thing is definitely part of it. Second is just how they articulate how they've driven performance in the past. You can quickly tell what they think their competitive motes are in those situations. And then if we invest with a private equity manager, we typically go to all the private credit managers and ask how they treat them. How do you treat your lender? Which we obviously as a bank care about. Sourcing is certainly what differentiates, especially”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We have offered over 200. There's about 85 to 90 active relationships that we have in the broad private blank offering. The concept of concentration in the industry is happening. There's a lot of acquisitions that happen to some of these managers, even if we work with a great manager, could be a public manager that has many different arms of their organization. We really don't do everything that they do. We're not going to be a suite to offering the entire GP. We really want to focus on where are you the best and having our capital matter to them and then to our clients as well.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Size doesn't totally matter, but in our portfolios, there were these shifts that we made like in 21 and 22, we started moving more into the core middle market. And in parts of our business, like our private equity group that submitted investing for over 40 years, they've stayed focused on the funds sub $2 billion that was always the sweet spot of what they did. So we try to give our clients choice. We do think that middle market can outperform large cap and smaller funds can outperform bigger funds, but there's such dispersion. It's all about the manager selection process. It's even more exacerbated on the hedge fund side.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Size definitely matters. That was a mistake of a lot of what happened pre the GFC and then post the great financial crisis. I would say though there's some of these managers that everyone would always say, how can you raise $15 million or $20 billion and deploy that appropriately? If you look under the hood to figure out, have you increased the size of your team? Has your deal size changed? Have your return drivers changed? Have the partners changed? There's a whole generational shift happening in the world of private investments right now that we're talking about. The size doesn't totally scare us. We try to think what's the expectation of you to persist from a return perspective. So if you look at the private equity industry, the data tells you that over the last decade, half the returns came from multiple expansion. That's not good or bad necessarily, but that's not going to persist. So where we've always focused in core private equity, as an example, is managers that can drive three quarters of the return from proper operational improvement. Driving earnings, driving revenue, and thinking through if you do cut costs, is that good or bad, and do you invest it back in the business?”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In your portfolio of 200 million to 75 million, and then the question is do we go to lower middle market? Those are the debates that we have on an annual basis.”
2025-05-26 · Capital Allocators · Kristin Kallergis Rowland – Alts at J.P. Morgan's Private Bank (Private Wealth 4, EP.447) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source