YouSaid · the spoken record

Luke Harries

lines on the record: 83
first: 2025-05-23
most recent: 2025-05-23
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, 100%. And you feel it is really authentic. Like he genuinely does care. I think he's genuinely doing it in a good way.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The best growth strategy I've seen is what Brian Johnson is doing. His marketing is so good that they made a Netflix show about his marketing. And I do think Brian Johnson's actually being authentic. Like he really does care about longevity, about creating great products, but he's put himself. One is like, it's just super controversial what he's doing. If you look at the way he dresses, it's like definitely not normal clothes. If the things he's doing, he's doing like bloodletting and blood transfers with his son. One, he's just generating a lot of controversy such that, you know, we're speaking about him now on this podcast. Two is they've really dialed in the messaging. So like the don't die is super catchy and they've built a brand around it. They built a community. Like their brand building is just fantastic. And then their distribution, he's constantly on Twitter like anytime someone talks about doing a late night or eating junk.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We're not. And actually, we do a whole bunch of different safety work to make sure it's explicitly used where people give permission for their voice on the platform.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you think about the actual function of most inbound STRs, so with an enterprise sales cycle, someone fills in a form, they then need to speak to an inbound STR who basically goes through bant screening. So they work out, do you have the budget? Do you have the authority? Do you have the need? Do you have the timing? If yes, they then book you into another call with the AE, which actually closes the deal. And so the function of an inbound SDR, I'm sure the best ones are persuasive and they're friendly, but really the function is data collection. And so instead one, why don't you just add that to the form in the first place? Well, the reason is people don't really want to go through this back and forth and go into more detailed questions and, you know, trying to design these complex flowcharts of forms. And so instead, you can switch out to a conversational AI agent, which can completely replace that role and then get the people who should be booked in with AEs much quicker. You could even clone the voice of the AE.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know what I mean? What's this? What's that? Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think it does, but you as the infrastructure player really need to partner with companies and be very explicit around which areas you want to go deep on. We want to build the best platform to make these end-to-end conversational AI agents, but we explicitly don't want to be building full digital avatar platforms. So that way we're able to be trusted partners to companies like Hajen, Synthesia, Captions, who rule customers, but we're able to build these fantastic infrastructure layers on top.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The biggest thing I changed my mind on in the last 12 months is whether voice AI agents or conversational AI agents actually work. And so when I joined 11abs, we had this fantastic box where you could type in text, generate lifelike speech. And Matty was saying like, oh, soon you'll be able to have full AI agents that you can have natural conversations and it'll sound really human-like and you could use that for sales and for customer support and for relationship coaching. And I was like, that will never work. The latency will just be too high. You won't be able to have these sub 200 millisecond interactions. I was completely wrong. And so on about the 20th customer that RSAT 11 Labs had helped build these conversational AI agents. We were like, okay, let's actually turn this into a proper platform and build conversational AI as a feature. And now it's, I actually prefer speaking to an AI customer support agent in a real person because they're more knowledgeable.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Still not out. So, why are they pushing in their marketing? Instead, make sure your product is actually ready, that it performs great, and then ship it and push it hard.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The thing I'd most like to change about the world of growth is you just should not launch products which aren't actually ready. The biggest villain I see doing this at the moment is Apple, and so we've always held Steve Jobs in our mind as just like this beacon of marketing and product and engineering. And now you have Apple pushing that the reason you should upgrade to the newest iPhone or upgrade to the newest laptop is because of Apple intelligence, well, as no one actually knows what Apple intelligence is or how to use it or gets any value from”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The biggest advice I would give is get great at copywriting. When you think like the actual writing copy, writing words, how do you make something engaging? How do you get your message across is so fundamental to any bit of growth you do? So whether you're running LinkedIn ads if you're doing organic LinkedIn, if you're doing a blog post, a tweet thread, if you're doing copy for your landing pages, get great ad copy as that's the foundation for all other growth.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“100%. Actually, LinkedIn ads. So LinkedIn organic is fantastic. The bars so low you can get stuff super viral. LinkedIn ads, the CPMs are so high. Yes, you can do great targeting, but actually I would argue, invest a lot more time into creating excellent content that you distribute organically. Maybe you want to layer on ads on top, but particularly the kind of people that are then running LinkedIn ads. You're doing enterprise, you're doing heavy products with long sales cycle. It's really tough to get that working and instead I would just focus on the organic side.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Most underappreciated growth channel I see is organic LinkedIn. On Twitter you're competing against the best writers in the world. You're competing against Harry Stebbings running short America. Bill Ackman, it's really tough on LinkedIn, you're competing against Freddie from Deloitte who got a promotion. And so the bar to creating great content and standing out and being authentic is so much lower.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Title optimization Yes, yes. But when you were making your first episodes, should you have spent more time A-B testing different podcasts and maybe Harry instead of 20 VC could have lent more into product or growth earlier?”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Key part. You could create an incredible product if no one hears about it, then you can't scale it. And so instead, you may want to consider performance marketing earlier. But again, I would try and lead to other channels, which also increase brand.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The biggest mistake CUSE early founders making, particularly for B2B, is doing paid marketing too early, because if you don't have PMF yet, you're not going to get paid marketing working and you're going to spend all your time and all your engineering time optimizing funnels and conversion and creating these different creative and ads and caring about your rankings and your meta metrics. None of that actually matters apart from just building incredible products. And I think the core loop of doing credible launches and building incredible product is enough for any B2B or prosumer product to get that initial product market. And then you can start testing out different paid channels. The caveat, though, I'd say is if you are consumer, distribution with B2B, you basically know if you build an exceptional product, you can staff a sales team to it and they'll be able to scale it. So distribution is not as much of a risk. With consumer, it's very different where distribution is a”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's fun. I missed 11 labs, so I'm not sure how good I am. We had Runner, the running app, and they just did fantastically well. That's my first exit. They just sold to Strava. Incredible team. So I just find it as a really fun way to partner with people who I really back.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it's tricky. It's tricky. But I could imagine, you know, Love Ball, you sell to a large enterprise, you get behind their firewall, and you just keep it as an internal app, then you can massively expand within that with far less risk, maybe make it read-only seats as the primary use case. But Anton, super smart, I'm sure he'll work”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think there's a few ways they could go. Overall, though, I'm just very bullish. I don't see a reason that the level of intelligence in these AI models will slow down. And so given that it will keep rising, I think you're going to see more and more engineering. We're already at, say, 60% of all our code being AI generated. Then you have the broader lifecycle, the testing, deployment infrastructure. There's no reason why any of that couldn't be all done by AI as well. And so I think lovable is in a fantastic place to own that core stack. The tricky bit, I think, at the start is how do you make it super secure? How do you get enterprises to build it? How do you do full apps? And I think retool is kind of dead at the wheel at the moment. I don't hear the recent things they've been launching. And so I could imagine Love Bull going in that direction. You're cringing.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, we both invested in Love All at the end of Q1 on 11 ads, we did very well. We had like our best quarter ever. We had more enterprise using it. We had more consumers, more prosumers. I was like, tapping myself on the back, you know, growth team. I was like, we did pretty well. And then we got the email from Lovable with their latest results. I was like, okay, we need to up our game a bit.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“NRR of that one account you've grown may actually be a lot higher. You should still look at the individual seat retention, but I think it's fine to have it below the 100% on the individual level. And then when you zoom out and taking into account the organic growth, which comes because of it, that you do want to be over 100%.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think people largely think about retention for consumer and pros team over wrong. So for enterprise, it's very clear you sign one contract, say you sign a large enterprise hypothetically Slack and you land them one seat and then you expand and then you can look through and be like, oh, our NRR after one year is we're now on 150% NRR. Great, that contract's grown. If you think about the way it's actually grown underneath, it's like seat expansion within Slack. I'm sure lots of those individuals have churned on an individual user, they're probably not growing that individuals user's revenue more than 100% instead of you're growing within that account base. And I think when you look at consumer and prosumer, yes, for that individual user, you may only be on 87% revenue retention. A handful more people sign up to lovable. And so when you take into account the natural virality rates, I think your overall...”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. But as long as they're solving real problems and scaling quickly and the customers are retaining, particularly if you're doing B2B or enterprise, you're going to get that cohort of customers for a while. And so if you're ready on $10 million of revenue, if we think that it used to be the threshold for IPO was like, oh, let's get to $100 million of ARR, you actually have entire waves of companies which are now reaching those thresholds.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Know it probably varies by product to product. If they're solving a real problem and the retention is strong, I see no reason why these aren't real revenues. And the thing I've spoken to a few VC friends, I don't understand why they're not upping the rate of they're investing. They're seeing companies which are now, they're like, oh, it's already on $6 million MRR in like one year. And I'm like, why aren't you investing on it? And they're like, well, there's this other one, which is now on like 10 million dollars of MR. And you're like, surely now is the time, like the wrong time to be the tiger global play of investing quickly was back in the COVID boom. The exact right time is now when I think you have this unlock of capabilities with the AI models, which has meant new products which just couldn't exist before.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I said billion dollars of valuation. And I think truthfully at that point, it was like probably half the enterprise value of the company was Peter's model.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I still write code probably 20% of the time. The only code I write is through Kurta, where I'm describing in the chat what I want done and then it executes on my behalf. And I'm probably more the extreme because I'm often doing like growth features which are adding on top of the core of the product. In terms of core engineering, I would say probably 60, 70% of code now is AI written. So still like the majority. Where we don't do any AI written or AI generated code is our research engineering where it's just like research engineering and research where it's a very different style of work and also these code bases are so sensitive. When you think about the initial 11 labs launch and how quickly we got to a billion dollars of revenue, that's pretty much Peter's models being world class and so that we just don't want to go through any sort of LLM.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The API design, and if you hire an engineer who, one, you know, is really strong at coding because you've screened for that before, and two, you've then tested them through this full product loop. Like you have confidence that they're able to take those products and those features from idea to launch.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We keep the growth teams pretty small, and so frankly, there's just not enough time to be meddling in the different engineers where you're not going to be doing wireframes or going to be doing like large numbers of user interviews because you're too busy running the launches or running the channels for that particular product. So that's one is like we keep it pretty busy and lean. And the other one is if you hire great engineers, they just don't need it. And so the best engineers we hire, we put everyone through a product challenge, which is where we give them an imaginary product. and we ask them step one work out what features you should build like imagine i'm a customer imagine you're doing research they will actually go through on google and find competitors and use that to shape the features so step one is work out what features to build step two they're then going to turn that into the actual wireframes and they'll be sketching out in figma of like okay this is why i think the product should look like and then step three is you have system architectures so they're like okay this is the different backend”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Three separate functions engineering, product marketing. Instead, we merged a lot of product with a lot of marketing and called that growth. And most of the team actually is XPMs who are now doing growth. And so they're responsible for the marketing as well. And so now each different product has an engineering lead which is responsible for how great is the product overall and they partner with the growth lead which is responsible for particularly the awareness, the acquisition and then they co-lab on the activation and retention pieces.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, the reason we don't have PMs is our overall thesis is that engineers are building the product and they should be responsible for the product. And with AI now, we're seeing much more like different traditional roles merging. And so engineers are going towards product engineers or engineers towards growth engineers. And what's fantastic is when you have product engineers and the engineers who are actually building the product, they own the roadmap, they can go from idea. And chances are the ideas are better and more right because they're the ones speaking to users and understand the context so they can have better ideas. They then ship the product. They then get the results and analyze them. And they do that entire loop without needing anyone else's permission or anyone to slow them down. So that's why I think the ideal setup is engineers own the product and they're responsible for it. Now, we then, instead of having PMs or a separate marketing function, which is kind of like...”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We will see. I think they're still evolving what their actual product is, but they found this, as you said, like channel fit. And to jump back to the counter positioning, they've done the really funky thing of their like, okay, they've counter positioned against all in where all in was like no ads. They're like, we're going to be all ads. And they're like TechCrunch is going more the vibe or maybe not TechCrunch, but traditional media is going more the vibe of being like anti-tech. They're like, no, we're going to be completely pro-tech. Others are going like, oh, we're only polish, button up the clean cuts. They're like, no, we're going to be like streaming live content, the raw stuff.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Just Yeah, well, I think you did that right from this. You were 20 VC, you were short, you were concise. You were counterpositioned at the start. The interesting thing is you're now kind of the incumbent and people have moved on or not moved on.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Counter positioning is where you take what someone else is core messaging or core positioning in the market, and you take the exact opposite and you use that as your strength rather than your weakness. And so the example with Brexit is Brex really stood for like, hey, spend as much money on your card as possible. We give you all these fantastic points. And it's kind of like, look how many extra points and rewards and stuff we're giving. And then Ramp took the exact opposite approach, which was, hey, we're not going to give you any points. Points are a waste of money. Points who end up spending on stupid things. Instead, we're going to punt that all back into software. As soon as they made points and actual bad thing and got the whole market to think about points being bad, let's use it to invest in great software and the focus instead being on saving money and almost reducing the number of these imaginary points you're getting. They were really well counterpositioned to basically every time Brex would do something, they'd be able to riff off the other way.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's a great way to counter position against other brands. Pretty much every space you go into, there will be existing large players. There's a couple of different options which works. The YC1 approach, which often works really well, is basically just kind of ignore them, put on your blinkers, speak to your customers, make an incredible product. I think that's really smart for product development, but I think what RAMP has done with their counterpositioning against Brex is just genius marketing, which...”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, I think you need to be really intentional right from the start. What's the different messaging? Who do you want to resonate with? Who do you want to stand for? And for us at 11 labs, we want to be the super trusted player in the space, both for voice actors and the large enterprises.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Maybe, but I think the core of your brand needs to be authentic and it needs to come from a place where you really believe in and everyone is going to remember that company as the one which helps you cheat on their different tests, which is fine. If he leans into, okay, I want to sell the more consumer type or help people in their day-to-day life, maybe that's absolutely fine. But I think if you're trying to do like large scale enterprise sales where you want to be seen as the trusted partner, which often you do, and that's the differentiator, then I think it is a more risky play.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. Yes. So they've gone for cheat on anything. Their founder-led marketing is him getting offers for Amazon, for Palantir, for Google, and then telling them actually, oh wait, I cheated on it using my tool. And that gets fantastic marketing. But he's also putting a big black X on himself if he ever actually wants to sell to enterprise sales teams where you're like, oh, do I really trust this person? You know, I think it's a risky move.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You could do that, but you then constantly see yourself going virals on these channels. Maybe you're getting negative comments, largely positive comments, but still putting yourself out there. And so actually, if you're not naturally that excited by it, it's a big distraction. And the way I view startups is their long-term games, their 10-year, 20-year long games. And so you need to stay in that and also recognize like, what do you personally get really excited by?”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You post every day, you're getting the dopamine of likes on your LinkedIn posts, likes on your X threads. I think it's quite risky because you can spend all this time actually then optimizing for the wrong thing. The way we think about it at 11 lads, it's like, what channels really naturally resonate with the founders and do they get really excited by? And so for us, Matty is fantastic in person at large speaking events, at Farside Chats. And so that's what he really leans into. Equally, he's not that excited about being active on Twitter or X. He naturally isn't that active on those platforms and that's fine. And the way that we've done it is we basically kind of have other people within the company, which are instead active and pushing. So I'm quite active. The developer team's quite active. And instead, we're pushing the company mission through channels we get really excited by.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ideally, you're doing it right from the start. If you're trying to build a massive company, you want people to join you for your mission. And now how that may look like over time may switch, but right at the start, I'd really be thinking about engaging with your community. Like you said earlier, you messaging every single person on Twitter that follows you. That's you building your brand. That's you as a person being related to. So ideally, you have right at the start and it comes from the founder of them putting themselves out there, being authentic, then building it. And then, yeah, so over time you can scale that into different brand awareness campaigns. And I think you just need to choose that ratio of spends, which you're happy with. Maybe that's 20%, maybe that's 70%. I think it depends how well your other channels are working.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, very tailored. And then on the other end, we have a developers team, which is developer advocates, which are focused on this much kind of broad scale awareness. We're doing hackathons. We're doing different events from the bottoms up. And so they have completely different goals, but kind of work in tandem with these roughly overlapping audiences”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is just focused on going in on the top. They're like, how do I get these SQLs which are marketing sourced? They're doing executive dinners. They're doing the events. They're doing the webinars which you love.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I actually really hate the word enterprise in general. Bold for a while within 11 lads there was this phrase of like, we need to sell to enterprises. But who are the enterprises? And I was like, let's work together, let's refine who exactly they are. And we basically worked out they're normally like engineering managers or product leads at these larger companies. Sometimes the CIOs or CTOs are involved too. But first step is like, okay, let's actually define who are we selling to. And then you do realize, okay, wait, they have so much overlap with our developer audience and our developer marketing. And maybe it's not about doing long white papers and executive dinners. Maybe it's actually more about this. But zooming out, the bit we've actually landed on at 11 labs is we want to grow super quickly. We want to try and get and work with all the best companies in the world. Why not do both? And so what we've done is spin up separate teams. So we have an enterprise marketing team, which”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So for specific channels, they do tend to go up. But when you look at it broadly, and as you're adding new channels, when you're increasing the virality, when you're improving your activation rate, you're converging to paid. Yes, you can kind of get that overall blended cat to hopefully even just stay flat. But exactly as you said before, because you're able to layer in, say, enterprise products, you can upsell to, or we actually have done this funky move, we've led in a consumer product, which enables us to get the CAC incredibly cheap. And then people may move up to crater or even enterprise.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, exactly, where you know the customer is going to retain, then maybe even signing multi-year deals. And the way we set it up is each different channel has a marketing lead and they're thinking about this ratio. And if it's positive, that basically means they should be putting their foot on the gas as quickly as possible. You're exactly right though that over time you may be able to increase your payback period sooner. So for example, you may layer in an enterprise product and then you can sell your creators onto your enterprises. The way I would think about this for other companies and as well as for 11 labs is you set this goal. If you're above”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Actually, the day to day metric and ratio we're really thinking about is CAC to payback period rather than CACT LTV. We set different payback periods depending on which product line and how aggressive we want to be, but these vary between say 12 months to 24, maybe even 36 months for that payback period.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So webinars do definitely work. The key issue with webinars is the name webinars. And so I would argue that what we're doing now is basically a webinar on growth. The only thing that actually we're probably missing is like, one, we're not live streaming it. Two, we're not doing email capture. But then you can then take this podcast and then you can repurpose it and push on all the different platforms. I think OpenAI did something quite smart recently where they called it OpenAI Academy, which is basically a webinar platform. They're putting on videos for businesses or videos for educators and they're doing email capture. They're effectively doing webinars. But because you're calling it Academy and it's focused on giving value, I think it goes down a lot better. So yeah, I think we'll be rebranding 11 Labs webinars to something else soon.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What we've landed on for the marketing, so this is the enterprise marketing team with the enterprise part of our business, what we've landed on as our North Star metric there is number of marketing sourced sales qualified leads. Marketing has identified a lead someone signed up for a webinar, an email or even signed up from the product. We've managed to get them to book a call with an SDR. And then that SDR has said, yes, this person's great. And so that's our North Star metric and the entire marketing team is focused on how do we drive that number up. Yes.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think social channels are tougher for core performance marketing channels, it's very clear, is the CAC less than the predicted LTV of the person. So for, say, affiliates for different paid marketing, that's super clear, with organic and particularly enterprise marketing, trying to gauge that relationship is much harder overall. And instead, the way I do it is you have to look over a longer time horizon and allow for more fuzzy attributes. So for example, we're going to be doing a big enterprise marketing push in San Francisco. We're doing billboards, we're doing podcasts, we're doing newsletters, we're doing events on the ground, and we're not going to measure any one channel in isolation, but instead we look over the campaign, what was the relative lift in number of leads in that geo compared to a comparable like New York or Seattle?”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The mistake I think we made is not hiring early enough. We had super strong PMF right from the start. We had channels working right from the start, but we didn't actually have anyone focused on certain channels. So for example, affiliates, we set up over a year and a half ago, and that now is bringing in over tens of thousands of dollars of MR per month. But this was set up a year and a half ago by one engineer in one week, and then no one's touched it since. And what we should have done is once we've seen signs of life, given we already have PMF overall, staff one person who can focus on growing that one product and those one set of KPIs and nothing else keep them laser focused. Overall, I wish we had staffed up more channels with more dedicated people sooner.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, and we've actually just hired our first in-house creator, whose only job is to create TikToks, YouTube videos, Instagram shorts, YouTube shorts for 11 labs. And the way we actually hired this guy is if you typed in 11 labs on YouTube, he had the most viewed video above us. And so we were like, okay, he's creating fantastic content. Let's actually hire him, supercharge him, and particularly for this creator audience, having someone who can speak to them as a creator will really supercharge growth.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Largely different. We see X as mainly for our creator and developer. We see LinkedIn mainly for our potential future employees, potential partners and enterprises, but we write the content in a way which tries to cater towards both.”
2025-05-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: ElevenLabs Head of Growth on Why You Do Not Need PMs | The 7-Part Launch Playbook That Gets 700K+ Views Per Product | The Truth About CAC, Payback & Performance Marketing in AI with Luke Harries · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source