YouSaid · the spoken record

Magdalena Gronowska

lines on the record: 52
first: 2022-03-09
most recent: 2022-03-09
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Yep, I'm crypto underscore mags on Twitter. And yeah, so I'm Vice President of Business Development at CoinKite. We make awesome products like this calculator, the Open Dime, which is basically like I'm handing you gold. And we've got really cool products coming, like the TapSigner and the Stats card, but those you can find out from last week's podcast with Rodolfo. It's funny because I keep straddling, like, Bitcoin is so digital that I keep finding these jobs where I'm straddling this physical and digital world.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know what? Good for you. Thanks. It's really funny because, you know, we talk about what is Bitcoin. It's, you know, it's fire insurance We know as firefighters, you know, the importance of having fire insurance, and Bitcoin's kind of like, it's like buying fire insurance, but it's also like building another house in another town and another total local economy.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, but I think so it's interesting a lot of Bitcoiners are actually moving to these rural towns where you're not going to have a career fire department. I think it's, first of all, it's like it's an awesome skill set if you're picking up first response. It's just like, yeah, a first responder in your house. But secondly, you're building really good, strong relationships with your community. It's really rewarding. It's challenging too. Obviously, there's that element, but it's just, I love it. It's become part of my identity.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I know I'm a volunteer firefighter. I'm a first responder as well. So if you are in a car accident, your car is on fire. I'll put that fire out. I will jaws of life and get you out of there and, you know, administer to any first aid needs. Yes, we also rescue cats, I guess. I haven't the opportunity to do that. But honestly, I love it. It's interesting because most people don't know 70 to 80 percent of fire departments in North America are actually volunteer, as in they're not career departments, it's volunteers coming in. So, you know, I'm on call 24-7 if obviously, you know, family and the job comes first, but, you know, especially if there's something like a fire in the community. Like once the pager goes off, I'm in firefighter mode. I love this.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But they're stuck on this idea still that we lack energy. It's causing energy prices and miners are going to steal that energy, so we have to shut them down. And they're not seeing it as kind of the symbiotic opportunity. And that is something that I think that can only be navigated through telling these stories and showing these examples of this already happening somewhere else in the world.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With the fourth R. So energy reuse, there was a time, for example, in Canada where people were really against energy from waste. So, you know, people would actually pick it with signs saying we're not labrats. Like, don't burn garbage because they were concerned about air emissions and other toxins. And whereas Europe, because they have less land for landfills and some more densely packed, it's more common that you have energy from waste facilities. And so, you know. similar to what I was talking about, there's already kind of situations where you are taking in a landfill, whether it's tires or whatnot. It's another way to kind of subsidize that energy facility. And so”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of subsidy if they partner by creating either a predictable load. So what's really interesting is I'm seeing this with nuclear plants and Oklo in the US where they're creating small nuclear reactors. They're piloting this, building out a smaller reactor. Maybe again, it's a little larger in terms of capacity than the city that they're going to be placed in, but that extra load comes in from Bitcoin miners. So again, predicting that creating that predictable revenue stream so that you can put it up against to take that off the infrastructure cost and the operating cost. And same thing with renewables. Similar situation can be made because like any kind of investment decision comes down to what are the costs, right? And what are the profits? And so that is Bitcoin mining is creating that profit center. And the other interesting part about Europe is they've been a lot more comfortable”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I come back to like, I really feel they are shooting themselves in the foot with this type of policy because fundamentally they've got an infrastructure problem and they need to spend a lot of money on infrastructure. And there was a time where a number of European countries shut down their nuclear plants and nuclear is a baseload and it's as a single point source it generates a lot of power compared to something like a natural gas speaker plant or even a coal plant. And so some are going back and actually going to consider building some more. But the fundamental point is there's a lot of money that needs to be spent on infrastructure and where is that money going to come from? So I come back to partner with an industry that basically printing money, but real money, right? That can subsidize not the taxpayers, not the rate payers, not the private sector. But here's an industry that can create a new type.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They can factor it in. They can conduct all the calculations, depreciations, and financial impact. And even you can buy offsets ahead of time for future vintages. So it's just a matter of create the framework and let us operate and we will optimize our resources. And if it makes more sense to just shut down our plant and go to another jurisdiction, at least I have a certainty because I'm making a decision on something that's not flipping and flopping, right?”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And it's funny because, yeah, no, it's really ironic I used to actually have my industry, my heavy industry stakeholders. That is exactly what the CEOs used to say, get out of our way. For example, cap and trade Wasn't so much that government was putting in a cap and trade system, it was that it was like taking forever to decide on the rules and the rules would be set up to 2020, but not 2030. They just wanted certainty because once there is certainty,”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We need the knowledge based economy workers. This is something that takes a while to develop, as in school curriculum. For now, it's industry is scaling up that, but it'd be great if this could be taught at a kind of younger age and be put into the curriculum. And for the last thing, I think like, you know, to really, truly support a domestic Bitcoin strategy, I think you're looking at a treasury allocation, what better way to support that. I used to laugh and say maybe it's possible for Canada to have one. We don't have gold anymore, but we do have a strategic maple syrup reserve Like, can you believe we have more maple syrup than we have gold or bitcoin?”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Ping ponging along, like the industry right now is not sure whether they're going to start shutting down, or banks are going to de-risk them because they're just involved in the crypto industry, right? Certainty is fundamental because if I don't know if I'm operating in this jurisdiction and they're going to shut me down tomorrow, why would I even go there, right? That's huge. And, you know, for a while, Canada was a leader in that and not so much now. And the US was, you know, we kind of leapfrog each other occasionally and you guys are currently really winning on the attraction of minors. But the ETF, we got you there. But it's other things too. It's like, you know, creating R&D kind of supports and, you know, there's been a lot of complaints about intellectual property laws and patents. So there's just so many things that a government can do. And then most importantly, like workers.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Different policy levers, and not all levers are fiscal. There's things like, you know, yes, so maybe they're fiscal like funding and creating loans and infrastructure spending, but instead of building roads, we're building Bitcoin infrastructure payment rails, but it's things like government as a first customer because this company is new. It's a startup and has never had a first customer, but typically how that works is before I become a customer, I want to know who your customer was. Oh, it's the government, it's the US government, of course. you know, we'll take you on because they must have vetted you, right? And it's things, you know, not.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Go is of strategic importance to develop a domestic Bitcoin strategy, but it's so complex in how it plays out. But the policymakers need this big view because there's just so many levers that you can apply to then support a domestic Bitcoin strategy. And I think, you know, if you're just looking at mining and energy alone, you might be missing some of the other policy impacts like that recent bill that have been put forward that the one which would affect miners and nodes make them kind of essentially money service transmitters like that was something that that had kind of unintended consequences as part of the infrastructure act which kind of ironically was going to kill the you know new digital infrastructure in the way that it was being built but so the whole part is you know you have to have this it's like it's a domestic bitcoin strategy where the best types of strategies if you're looking at kind of an industry or a sector are those that you know are very broad so they look at”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Darwin finches. Just taking a look at mining on its own, like there's this Cambrian explosion of these niches, ecological niches where miners sit in across various sectors of the economy, like waste management, agriculture, energy, just all these places. And then that's just mining alone. And then you get into wallets and exchanges. It's just, it's become so complex that just the energy stories, these big black blocks typically for people. But now you pile in, like, what do you mean you're replacing our money? Like people can't grasp all these concepts. So it's really hard for them, you know, to build policy because for the big picture, I think it's important, you know, you want to support the whole Bitcoin ecosystem because then you're creating economies of scale, you're creating this economic global hub, and then you strengthening this attraction of talent and money in this kind of virtuous cycle. So I think fundamentally, I think where we really need to.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They tell the story of we employ X amount of people, we generate, you know, we bring this much to the economy. And that's kind of what's important. But I think it's more difficult to understand because like steel is something simple in the sense that this is an industry and we create steel. But then Bitcoin, because I'm going to bring in.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like resources that typically to produce oil or to produce the black carbon, you would have your own industrial process with its own environmental impact. So you're replacing that. So I think these types of stories need to be told more to the policymakers. And, you know, just from my experience working with industry, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We haven't been squeaking how fast in industry, I think, but it really is changing. We're at a point where the industry so financialized, you know, like they've got capital because there are so many publicly listed companies, whether that's miners, but then also, you know, you have exchanges with have tremendous amount of capital that can start to throw their weight around like traditional industry has. And we are seeing that. And I think it's something that's going to grow. And it's been interesting because I'm not surprised to see, you know, mining as an industry have its create its own group. And that's just, that's what happens in legacy industry. You have like Canadian manufacturers and experts.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But then also creating value added products because there's black carbon that's generated, there's oil, there's a synthetic gas, right? There's steel that can be recycled. So it's not just like. Thermally, it's thermal deconstruction of the product. You're not just burning the tire, you're creating”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Mining operation, and you're essentially subsidizing food production, fresh food production, instead of having it shipped in. So there's like these little policy levers that aren't a mandate, like a government mandate, thou shalt do this or thou shalt not pollute that type of thing, where it's actually positively incentivized. And that's why I think it's a fascinating place to be.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just about mining, like even think about, you know, custodial wallets, it's industry, it's a different type of industry, and we're still manufacturing things. They're just things that kind of straddle this digital and physical world. So I think that's kind of why it's fascinating, but that's, you know, policy people are kind of still missing, you know, the forest for the trees. And we're seeing a lot, you know, there's the left and the right or the conservatives versus the liberals. And, you know, the conservatives are very much, it's all about the capitalist system, capitalist system. which is mining fundamentally comes down to the economics right there's nothing more capitalistic about that but then you know there's all these positive benefits that can accrue societally including like you know something as simple as food security you know if you look at alaska or northern canada there are places where you know they don't have access to fresh fruits and veggies but if you put in a mining operation and i know there's for some first nations that are looking into this you put in a”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But then people tend to focus on the negative, so they focus on the criminals and the money laundering, right? There's the energy system where people tend to focus on this. They're wasting very good energy. Well, it's not the case, right? We're creating a better, more resilient, more optimized grid system manufacturing, creating additional revenue streams and maybe actually helping struggling legacy industries. Like if you look at the pulp and paper sector, they've been dying. We're all going digital, right? And they require heat. Well, heat recovery is a cross-cutting technology. So I am seeing miners partner with pulp and paper sector. So if you can provide a little bit of an extra revenue stream or even like, you know, miners co-locating in a legacy business and providing that revenue stream like in the oil and gas sector, there's a lot of opportunities there. So a country that kind of cuts off Bitcoin, whether it's Bitcoin mining or just Bitcoin, is kind of shooting itself in the foot because this is an industry that lives in both the digital and the physical world.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People will believe because they'll eventually see it be so commonplace. Like, even think about in people's homes. You pro sticking miners in. They're reducing their home heating bills, you know, which are traditionally carbon sources because it's natural gas and they're heating their home on grid power. And depending on where you live, you might actually be 98% renewable, like in BC, where it's all hydro. So it's fascinating how this industry is just so pervasive in terms of the economic sectors that it can positively impact. And people tend to focus a lot on the negatives, right? So, you know, the financial services, there's all these”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A different way out, and it's purely being done based on economic incentives. You know, these miners are saying, hey, here's a resource that I can lower my cost with or I can sell this heat offtake and it's additional revenue stream for me. And that is creating this environmental benefit. So I think that is a piece that people aren't yet capturing. And sort of the synergies that we're seeing, you know, between miners and the renewable energy industry that hasn't yet come to light because everyone's so focused about boiling the oceans. And so I think it's one of those things, you know, the Satoshi quote, I don't have time. If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to convince you. I'm sorry. It's kind of like at some point, like this is already happening, right? You know, they're combining with legacy industry, integrating and finding these synergies. And at some point, people are going to be as, hey, this actually happened, right? So we don't need to, you know.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Has been underinvested, and we get brownouts, transmission, distribution lines, generation some of these plants are over 100 years old. And so there is investment that's needed. And I think traditionally it's been the government. So either it's the users, so the right payers, or it's the taxpayers, or it's the private sector that steps in because of some capitalistic opportunity. But we now have this new bucket that can fund sort of these public policy issues that could generate some sort of positive environmental outcome or societal outcome. So, you know, whether it's waste reduction, whether it's resource optimization or optimization of the grid as is happening in Texas. And so having worked for a decade in the low carbon economic transition, I keep seeing the goalposts get moved. And it's typical because, you know, governments want to get re-elected. So they don't want to come down too hard with the stick, right? And this is kind of.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Created from a minor is a resource as well, right? Whether you're heating buildings or heating greenhouses. And this is both things that are happening right now or another kind of low grade heat process in manufacturing. There's opportunities to kind of reuse that waste resource. And so I think there is an elegance to Bitcoin where it moves based on economic incentives, right? And it's just, it's simple, right? It's just a simple set of economic incentives. And so for the first time, you know, we have this way where we can fund public policy issues that typically have had under investments, whether that's the transition to a low carbon economy where trillions of dollars are needed to get us there or this transition to kind of like a more modern, clean, resilient energy system because of a lot of our infrastructure in North America.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Into CO2, it's an environmental benefit. And so, but it's still energy that's being wasted. Miners come in, they're a more efficient process. They're taking this wasted energy and they're putting it to good use for, you know, to support the Bitcoin network. Recently, we're hearing a lot about miners destroying the planet, not just because they're boiling the ocean and wasting energy, but there's a lot of e-waste out there. They're generating waste, you know, filling landfills. And I think this is an opportunity to kind of like flip the narrative because there are miners that are taking advantage of waste resources, whether that is municipal solid waste or the billions of waste tires generated annually across the globe. And so that is a resource that could be mined for energy that's just sitting in a landfill. And it's a negative cost energy. And so we're seeing miners kind of fill that niche and figure out better uses. The waste heat that is”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think it comes down to sort of this misconception that Bitcoin mining is bad for the environment because it's using power. You know, there's kind of a number of different ways where they're wrong. One is, you know, they think that one Bitcoin transaction is the equivalent to a block reward, which you're probably familiar with. Another one is that just that there's all this energy that could be used for better things. Maybe it's like hospitals or something, but they don't understand how much energy either misallocated or wasted. If we just look at some of the cool business models that, you know, these miners are finding, flare gas in the oil and gas industry, typically oil and gas flares. So they emit methane from the oil and gas process. And because methane is 25 times more potent than CO2 or 80 times over a longer lifetime. And so because you're converting methane,”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So it's not like gold where if gold were to 5x, suddenly you'd have a ton more mines increasing production. So I think it's such a unique industry. And because of that, there's unique features that come with it. And then also from that economic development perspective, why it's attractive for countries or states or even cities to attract it is because you're creating these knowledge economy jobs that come with mining. So it's all the financialization of Bitcoin mining, right? There's the energy side and energy experts plus the actual builders, those who set up the mine, who build the infrastructure and manage it. And now we're integrating with, you know, with other industries like whether that's district heating or waste management. So it's just fascinating seeing kind of this diversification and opportunity in so many sectors of the economy.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Much more competitive, they'll move over there, right? And look at what's happening in Texas, it's becoming a mecca and there's jobs that are being created. And what's really fascinating, kind of the coolest part of Bitcoin mining is it straddles the digital and physical world. So it has a physical footprint, just like any traditional industry, but it creates a product that's fully digital and it's a commodity. And so typically, you know, commodities, they have super low margins, but the margins on mining, you know, have been reaching 80, 90 percent. It's wild. You cannot, if the price goes up, you can't produce more Bitcoin, like there is a mathematical equation that says how many Bitcoin are always.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and just on that thought, that's why it's easy in some ways to attract minors, because if you create the right economic incentive in your jurisdiction, the miners can very easily pick up and go because, again, the most expensive part is. The capital part is the miner, and the energy economics are”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Can move to energy sources that are cheap, that are even no cost or negative cost, as in you're getting paid to take that feedstock. And what I mean by get paid to take in iste. People pay tipping fees to remove waste. So as a miner, if you have an operation, you can lower your costs that way. Or you can co-locate next to a heat load. So you can sell the heat offtake as in miners generate a lot of heat. that can then be piped over to a heat load so that can be something like space heating for a city, which is happening in Vancouver right now in a pilot, or a greenhouse or a farm, you know, warm up your hogs in the winter. So I think mining is pretty interesting and how it manages to kind of infiltrate all these different types or parts of the economy.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was blowing, so about 80% of 100 megawatt site coming from renewables and then the rest from the Texas grid. Having worked for a decade with heavy industry around competitiveness issues, I'm very familiar with the investment decisions that a heavy industrial undertakes, especially one that is energy intense and trade exposed. And there's no other industry that is as energy intense and trade exposed as miners. And what I mean by trade exposed is if policies change, for example, China banning Bitcoin, will the industry just get up and go? And mining is pretty unique because you can just move the miners. They're the biggest cost in terms of infrastructure. So you can ship them and rebuild unlike something like a steel plant where you have a coke oven that's maybe 30 million, 40 million dollars and has a lifetime of 30-ish years. So it's a unique industry because”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Citadel 256, I launched with the co founders of HUD 8, so Mark and Sean, and post HUD 8. This was unrelated to HUD 8. And we were looking to build enterprise scale hosting for Bitcoin miners. And what's interesting is we actually started working on that and talking to Asian miners because of the connections that we had before the China ban. So what it really was was kind of this testament to the onshoring of the mining industry back to North America. So, you know, bringing manufacturing back because of the opportunities that North American North America has, whether that's competitive energy system or opportunities that for low cost prices, for example, we were looking at a site where it was co-located with a wind farm. So we would get reduced pricing for the time that the”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Important. They're saying it's not in the interest of retail similar kind of type of story, or there's market manipulation, et cetera, et cetera, for other reasons why they say no. But what is it that they think they see is the part that I question.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What's interesting too, so I worked in economic development type of activities on the policy side for government for a decade. And if it wasn't a country like the US, I would say you're shooting yourself in the foot from an economic perspective. Unfortunately, the U.S. has a significant moat in that everybody looks at the financial markets in the US, right? They are the biggest. So if you want to list something, you go there, right? If you're a Bitcoin miner, you don't list on the Canadian exchange, you want to list on the US exchange because of all the benefits that accrued with that. But otherwise, you know, I'm thinking just like in terms of investment and jobs that you're costing if it were any other country, because you want to provide your citizens this opportunity. You want this industry to thrive and have, you know, the economic benefits and innovation that comes from it. So it's just a really question what is happening there and what they think because typically, you know, government has trade-offs. They think this outweighs that. So therefore, we're saying no because these other reasons are making it more.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Launches a Bitcoin fund, it's not the same kind of implication, but you have funds and ETFs in Europe, you know, Singapore, in Canada. And I'm really looking at the And I really question why the US does not have one, especially looking at what's happening with grayscale and the discount, the heavy discount, with the futures product, the carrying fees. It doesn't seem like in the best interest of retail.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They might actually have kind of like a 3D queue journey where at the end of it there were multiple hearings and the judge, so one of the commissioners came out with a 26 page ruling about why there should be a Bitcoin fund in Canada and how it is in the best interest of retail consumers. And that, you know, that piece of paper, that document is the foundation that all other funds went to apply for their prospectuses for. But it was really interesting because you really had to push back. So they basically had the OSC say no so that they could then take them to court and then fight for a ruling that would permit that. It's a different type of approach rather than asking because then you get concrete answer. And I think it's really interesting because Canada and the US are very similar in terms of markets and just Western type of country. So, you know, maybe if some smaller country like Burma”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So 3IQs Bitcoin fund really paved the way for all funds, including ETFs in Canada. And that's kind of an interesting story too, because 3AQ took on the regulator, so the Ontario Securities Commission. So just to set the scene, in Canada, we have provincial regulators. We don't have one securities commission. Every province has one The Ontario Securities Commission is the one that other provinces look to, just kind of like the world looks at what the SEC does. And they also kind of throw their weight around too, around the other jurisdictions. And so they thought that a Bitcoin fund was not in the best interest of retail consumers. And so what 3AQ thought initially would be pretty easy to get was it ended up being a three-year legal battle to make it okay. Sorry, is Grayscale going to court”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To me, is like, I want to have some assets that I know nobody can take from me. So that's how I view the world. And then you yourself have to kind of picture what's important to you. You know, are you responsible enough to kind of take that self-financial sovereignty?”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So that's something to consider. Whenever there's a third party, you're not the one in control of your money. And so if you take money off the exchange, you control it, but then it's a different issue where you are responsible for your own money. So it's like if you have a gold bar, where do you store it? Do you bury it somewhere and then forget, right? There's other factors that come into play and it's trade-offs. But you have to kind of think about that for yourself. What trade-off is more important to me? For example, for me, just like a personal story. So what I saw asset seizure through my grandma. So after the war in Poland, the borders were shifted. And she had this family farm. Beautiful. She'd call it paradise, right? Beautiful gardens. It was just so, so bountiful. The earth, like the vegetable, she's like, oh, yeah, it was like a shield, you know, that size, the sunflowers. And so when the border shifted, that was no longer hers. So she lost that asset. And that's something that, you know, she really missed. And so I saw that from my family. And so that's important.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and that one is actually interesting. So, sort of after what happened in Canada over the last week, it's not just losses, exchange losses or a hack that you have to worry about. It's are you going to be financially censored for some reason, maybe even without due process like in Canada and your funds cut off or your address is flagged. So if there is a third party custodian that's subject to certain rules and they want to stay on the good books of the government that they want to you know continue operating in that country, you might get your assets frozen as well.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Maybe it's a thousand bucks or $5,000, but think about when Bitcoin was $4,000, and then it shut up $40,000, $60,000 within one year. You can 10x easily what you have on there and forget.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It fundamentally comes down to keep what you're comfortable losing on an exchange. Just don't keep the majority of your funds on an exchange because things can happen. Now, some of the larger ones, we have seen if there is some sort of hack, they cover it with their own cash. But if it's significant enough, vulnerability, you're not guaranteed to get anything back. And I know it's hard. So I want to be realistic. People trade, engage in trades. They set up, you know, trades for a certain limit price, right, to hit. It's a matter of really finding out what you're comfortable with and figuring out how to de-risk. So maybe it's finding two or three exchanges that are more reputable. You know, they're following regulations. There's nothing shady happening. And spreading it out if you want, you know, so if one goes down, you don't lose everything if you are a trader. And a lot of people too, they get comfortable. They put some money on an exchange.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And it's not like you register and they check in, it's a good practice thing, it's not like the government gave a stamp of approval, but people thought it was good, you know, it was like, oh, it's a sign that they're on the up and up. So, you know, there was a lot of fraud that happened, whether it was, you know, kind of to create this idea that this was a good exchange or actual fraud, you know, where he was trading against users and stealing their money.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was allergic, but here's the interesting part. So it kind of got that way through fraud because he created all these fake accounts. He was trading with himself and other users, especially right at the beginning, like when it first started, something like 80 or 90% of trades were his. So he gave this illusion of liquidity. And when people go to exchanges, right, they're like, hey, there's a lot of volume being traded here. It must be a safer exchange. He also said that he was registered with FinTrack, which overseas money service businesses.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The reason why we're delayed in a claims distribution is because equivalent in Canada needs to file their acclaim. In Canada, Bitcoin, crypto companies have had such a problem getting banking and access to banking or they got banks de-risk. So he was using third-party payment processors. And then these were at least one of these was commingling personal and client funds. And so the only reason we recovered $30 million was because the funds were frozen by CIBC and because the bank was looking into this. So that actually saved creditors because there was some money recovered beyond the homes. They did not have very good operational kind of practices. They lost 67,000 ETH, which is a lot right now due to a coding error. I believe it was the parity bug. So, I mean, Kraken, I know, lost some money too. It's inaccessible right now. And yeah, so those are kind of, you know.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People started looking into what happened. And it was kind of more than that. And he didn't just do this. He also embezzled exchange funds. You know, he bought homes, multiple homes, cars, a boat, a plane, luxury vacations, right? And his activities on the exchange were deliberately not tracked in the system. Like he had blanked, you know, everybody else, you could see what happened in kind of the history, but he blanked it. Quadriga didn't have a business continuity plan. So after he died, the directors that took over weren't able to regain Quadriga's wallets or his accounts. And he did all his like trading and running the exchange on a laptop. So they couldn't access any of his devices. They actually thought that, hey, you know, maybe we can get some of the assets at some point if we manage to get into them. But no, actually, the wallets were empty. They didn't have any financial books and records. You know, they failed to file corporate taxes. And then so that also led to this tax liability, which is right now.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Measures in place to prevent something like a criminal running a financial institution. So what was really crazy there was Quadriga really misrepresented their custody practices. So the assets were not safeguarded in cold storage like they said what the CEO cotton actually did was he created and then he traded fake assets against clients using aliases. So some of them were like CP3O, just like making little puns. And then he sent client coins to other exchanges and he was a bad trader, like terrible. So the exchange, you know, him trading incurred about $143 million trading shortfall. And so he kept then using client assets to cover the shortfall, which would then escalate the losses. And then with his death, it really kind of kicked off that collapse of the exchange because.”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“On that. Currently, it's worth about 1.4 billion, so it was a lot. And the wild part is everything that happened, that went down. There was an OSC report kind of postmortem, which actually called Quadriga Ponzi. And it really went to show this is pretty much everything that can go wrong. So the CEO had a criminal past. He was engaged in Ponzi schemes way, way back when he was 16 years old and he was involved with another bad actor who had his co-founder was helping him with kind of these schemes. And that's how they met on these forums on how to scam people, which has been interesting because we just had a recent research where Michael Patron, so the co-founder was managing a billion dollar DeFi treasury for Wonderland. So it's just wild, kind of that this still continues in that is 2022. But anyways, so, you know, typically in regular markets, there are”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think first of all, it was a huge shock to see such a loss $215 million in Canada is in this kind of time where we're post Mt. Gox, you know, it's 2018, the end of 2018, seeing something of this scale. I don't think people are expecting it because we're kind of transitioning away from this wild west. And it really was, as more details came to light, you know, it's the perfect case study of everything that can go wrong in an exchange. And I personally lost money. That's how I came to be in this role. You have to be a creditor to be able to represent other creditors as a bankruptcy trustee. And I also sit on the committee that makes decisions on behalf of creditors because it's kind of like a class action lawsuit. So we inform kind of decision making. And what was really kind of depressing to everybody was how little assets were recovered. It was only about 46 million of the 215 million. And just to put this,”
2022-03-09 · We Study Billionaires · BTC068: Bitcoin Exchange & Mining Policy Incentives w/ Magdalena Gronowska (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT