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Marco Canora

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2021-11-10
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2021-11-10
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  1. Long and hard. You're not afraid of long and hard. Yeah, you're like surfing, you're very accustomed to surfing, paddling out and surfing 100 foot waves. Which is just wild. And why don't we take a step back? And I would love for you to tell the story of how Brodo came to be Brodo's turned into one of those things I look forward to when I visit New York City. And. I remember some very early, super early taste tests where I had like.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  2. And you were able to kind of figure it out. So I think that it's just incredible and inspiring. I don't know if you'd like to add anything to that. I just wanted to sort of preface the discussion of Broda with that that is sort of a great metaphor in a way also that that window ended up being like the portal and the lifeline.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  3. And leave the details off the packaging. Of course, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to take that. Let's talk about Brodo. So you, unlike many restaurants, you were open throughout the entire pandemic, is my understanding. And I didn't know that until we just recently spent time together. It's kind of afraid to ask, honestly, because of so many horror stories that I've heard and love you, love the restaurant and I'm ashamed of that. So I'm sorry that I didn't ask, but I was just like, oh, God, like I can only imagine how hard it must be. And I was afraid to ask. But the fact of the matter is you kept the Brodo window open. You sold frozen foods. You also, I don't want to say liquidated, maybe you did, but you realized that you had all of this valuable inventory of wine and sold wine.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  4. Yeah, exactly right. I mean, are we dealing with like a few inches of topsoil with like tons of fertilizer poured on top of it? Are we talking about something else? So Happen to be fascinated by this stuff, so I don't mind digging into it, but it's really unfortunate that it's so complex in part because there's so many incentives to hide this kind of shit. You know what I mean? There's so many incentives because if a company can get you something bigger, faster, cheaper.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  5. If we're just looking at individual health, those are very different from, say, industrial level, cattle farming versus different source of salmon, right? And by the way, this isn't just limited to animals. It's also true of plant matter.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  6. Yeah, like your food that you are eating, what nourished that, right? Because if it's some, if you're like, hey, I'm eating fish and that is so much healthier than beef, you got to double click on that and take a look because if it's some really disgusting industrial level farming operation where they're just dumping food and antibiotics and so on into the water, they've basically taken the worst practices of terrestrial agriculture and just poured it into the water. So you have to look a lot. And then if you compare Putting aside environmental concerns for the moment, because I think both can be degrading.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  7. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the processing question is a huge blind spot. For people. Another blind spot, which we don't have to dwell on, but it's something I think about a lot is thinking about what you eat. If that makes any sense. So people say you are what you eat. And it's like, well, you got to go a step further. The food

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  8. Yeah, to define it. Right. Well, it's just like. People say our food is all natural. It's like, okay, right. Let's take a look at what that means.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  9. But there are certain questions that I think are worth asking, right? Like, how processed, if you had to put it, I don't actually, I'm not totally clear unprocessed and then processed culinary ingredients versus processed. Maybe you can tell me what the difference is between processed culinary ingredients and processed. I don't know. Have any idea what that means

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  10. This is so important, and there are a lot of questions that Unfortunately, seemed to add a lot of complexity to the lives of end consumers, right? Because they're like, good God, can I just know that a fucking banana is a banana for God's sake?

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  11. Culinary. God damn it. All right Processed culinary ingredients, the third is processed and then the fourth is ultra processed, right? And

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  12. Yeah, it looks like, so to summarize that the Nova classification system, which was developed in Brazil by researchers, separates out food into four groups based on the level of processing. So the first level is unprocessed. The second is processed culinary ingredients. Do you say culinary or culinary? What do you say?

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  13. I wasn't aware of this, but apparently there's a Nova classification. Do you want to describe what this is? The NOVA classification system developed by researchers at University of Sao Paulo.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  14. Build on that, there are cases where you can sort of deduce that aid does not equal A in quotation marks in the sense that if you buy hummus from the farmer's market with a certain set of ingredients and then you go to the sort of hipster grocery store and you find Chickpea crisps that are completely different texture, completely different form factor are shelf stable for 175 years. Not to say that's true for all crisps. I'm just making up an arbitrary example. You can safely assume that something has been done to the ingredients that was not done at the farmer's market. And it's just unclear what has been done. But there has been some level of manipulation for it to take a different form. That's just how it has to be. Now in notes here,

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  15. Replay or just speak to that because it highlights something that's super, super important that I also need to think more about, honestly, which is that the ingredient panels and nutrition facts panels are just not enough if you're trying to assess the health value of your food.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  16. That's pretty gangster. You looked like some kind of, I don't know Yeah, badass warrior from Last of the Mohicans or something. That's amazing. Great book, by the way, I recently read. But... Very dated for those people who are sensitive to such things, but beautifully written. Let's jump into some nutrition stuff, and this is going to be a segue. Into talking about Brodo, which I want to ask you about. So one thing we chatted about in your kitchen when we were bullshitting over tea and waiting for the oven to eat up. I think you actually brought it up, this book metabolical and a quote, which it's not what's in the food, it's what's been done to the food. And I think the example you gave was some snack food made out of chickpeas. And I would love for you to.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  17. I am going to be much better off all my markers than if I have it at 8 o'clock dinner. So then there's the question of like, well, what happens if I still have the eight o'clock dinner? But then I go for. Let's say I make it could be a 10 minute walk, but it could be like a 30 minute walk, right? See how that affects things. And it's super tricky because you're sort of an amateur. Obviously, we're all amateur if we're doing it this way, scientists in a sense, and there are a million variables, but you can start to play with these things, you know?

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  18. All the hip kids are like, oh, I just do ketamine. And I'm like, well, I don't know. And maybe a time and a place. But I still like my wine with friends. I don't want to be a truffle pig snorting ketamine at the dinner table. So the idea that you have these tools and if you're able to form a hypothesis and then try to replicate it, which is super important, right? Because it's easy to fool yourself. Super exciting and like the take a walk after you eat, right? Because I could look at okay, because I have noticed that like if I'm gonna drink, if I give my body four or five hours to metabolize before I go to bed, my sleep is much improved, right? So if I'm going to have three glasses of wine, if I have it at an early dinner at 5.30.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  19. Interesting idea because I don't drink a lot these days because I feel it much more as I've grown older. But I enjoy it. I'm not going to lie. I know it's very out of vogue and it's like, you know, the...

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  20. It's super interesting as a hypothesis to be like, okay, if I suppress some of the symptoms of alcohol consumption, some of the symptoms would include lower heart rate variability, right? So normally I'd be like 33 to 40, I guess it's milliseconds MS is the sort of increment. Not sure actually what the unit is, but so the 33 to 40 on the aura ring If I drink, it drops down to like low to mid-20s. So that would be one symptom. Another symptom would be the higher temperature, higher resting heart rate. And it's hard to know if all of these symptoms happen simultaneously or if some of those phenomena cause the others. So for instance, does the elevated temperature then result in the lower heart rate variability? At the very least, I mean, it's kind of an

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  21. So I did that for those who have an eight sleep. I went from like a negative three in the beginning to a negative four. And that would usually kind of ascend up to waking. So I lowered it. Let's just call it 33% or an additional kind of 33%. What I found was I woke up feeling much more refreshed and my numbers on the aura ring looked totally different. So I need to replicate it, but it's not.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  22. I've noticed, and I knew this already, but that the most obvious takeaway from the aura ring is if you drink certain types of booze past a certain point, your sleep is just garbage. It's like so clear, especially deep sleep. However, what I noticed When looking at my recovery and sleep scores on the aura, As an experiment recently, I had two large classes of wine, ros ⁇ in this case. And that is usually enough to completely destroy my sleep. But what I decided to do Was to decrease the temperature of my bed more than usual to turn down the temperature because one of the symptoms of drinking too much alcohol is my resting body temperature goes up at night

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  23. Yeah, you can do some cool stuff. I'm going to do another CGM Experiments soon because the last time I did a continuous glucose monitor experiment was in And there was an external. Screen slash device that you would hang on your belt like a beeper. There was no iPhone. And it was very much Gen 1. It'll be much more interesting to do now with the vastly improved technology. And I'm so curious to see my takeaways because Tools are just so much better, and I have more tools, right? Because I have the aura ring, which I wear for sleep. I have eight sleep, which I use to cool my bed typically. And I noticed something just in this last week and I was like, wow, that's really wild. I still need to replicate it.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  24. I mean, I was living in China and this is a long time ago. I mean, this is 1996. So this was back when Beijing was like people's liberation, green army jackets in the winter, these green jackets and bicycles. So Beijing is a different city now. And I was there for six months at two universities. And, man, that was kind of the last time I studied Chinese was around that time. But you just sang that prompted that to pop up in my brain, which is wild. I'm telling you, there's a lot of.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  25. That's wild, man. You know, I haven't thought you just prompted something to come to my mind, which I haven't thought of in a few decades. And I'm going to apologize to anyone who hears this and understands what I'm saying. So I'm going to probably butcher it because my tones are off these days. But there's a, I want to say a, well, maybe it's not so much a proverb, it's an expression in Mandarin Chinese, which is something like If you walk a hundred steps after you eat, you will live to be 99. That's literally the expression.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  26. So it's not exercise. It's not like going to the gym or doing push-ups. It's just going for a walk around the block a few times.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  27. I endorse that. I endorse that wholeheartedly. And you think a lot about nutrition. I mean, this is, I think in part how Jeffrey initially connected us is because... Of kind of four hour body slow carb diet, and so on, I see a bullet here in front of me in my prep notes that I want to ask you about, and we're going to move all over the place, obviously, but that is the way my brain functions or dysfunctions, malfunctions. Recent 45-day CGM that's continuous glucose monitor experience. Why did you decide to use a continuous glucose monitor? And what did you learn from that experience?

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  28. And they don't give you, do they give you any direction beforehand? Are they just like, hey, come trail, wink, wink? And the understanding is like, I want to see if you can figure out when and how to help.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  29. So, now are you just playing tag where you're like avoiding anyone touching you? Or do you have responsibilities? Are you just sort of the ghost? They're like, we don't want to hear you. We don't want to see you like be a ninja.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  30. But I understand the commitment was kind of first and foremost, right? This is the commitment that I plan to give if you were to hire me. What else was there to the pitch that would help them say yes?

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  31. You're going to sort of, if we're thinking of it almost like college admissions, you're going to like Harvard, Yale, Princeton. You're like, hey, let me in. Okay. The percentage of the time they say yes has got to be pretty low because it's not like they're going to have 70 people working as line cooks. So if I were in their shoes and you offered that, I would have to, I would think, I would have to have a high degree of confidence that you could at least handle the work that I would be throwing at you.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  32. No matter how you slice it, we could debate the number, but there are a lot of restaurants in New York City. And you have just picked a couple of the hottest restaurants. You can't be the only person knocking on doors, right? And so I'm thinking to myself, well, wait a second now.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  33. Okay, that's super interesting, right? Because I'm imagining you're going through these reviews in gourmet magazine. And at the time, just as probably 2000... 2010, 2011. And I know COVID may have affected things, but I wrote. Just saying this to provide some context for folks, right? All right. So, in the four hour chef, you know, wrote all about My first real inebriated five and a half hour orgy of gastronomic delight. And at the end of that section, I said, by the end of the evening, I concluded what many others had. Hearth is the most underrated restaurant all of New York City. This is saying a lot in a city with 24,000 restaurants. So there are...

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  34. It never does. It's incredible. So bookmark coming back to bookmark. I promised I would cover this with people. And I want to know, selecting those five or so restaurants where you put on your God knows what I would love to see a photo of that suit back in the day. Put on your suit and you go to knock on some doors and smile.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  35. Yeah, it is way. It's more than 10 for sure. When I ask you what you're up to, what you're excited about, very often, I mean, there are other things, of course, but very often you're like, yeah, I'm super stoked about like, yeah, the cooking this and I'm doing this and like have this garden and like you are As excited as I have ever seen you about good food and making good food when you're home. Right? I mean, it's so Refreshing to see, in a sense, because what I am used to very often is like someone who is, this includes many people who are successful in whatever given field is like they have their thing they do for work and when they are not working, the last thing they would ever want to do is more of what they consider their work, right? But that's not you. That definitely does not seem to be you.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  36. One thing that's always impressed me about you, and honestly, there's part of me that's really envious of this covet sounds too weird, but I do have this kind of pang of envy when we're texting or talking because God, you know, it's got to be coming up on 10 years, if not just past 10 years now that we've first met, which is fucking bonkers to think about.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

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    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  38. Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors, and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. The answer is invariably athletic greens. I view it as all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it, in fact, in the four-hour body. This is more than 10 years ago, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients, you'd be very hard-pressed to find a more nutrient-dense and comprehensive formula on the market. It has multivitamins, multi-mineral greens complex, probiotics, and prebiotics for gut health, an immunity formula, digestive enzymes, adaptogens, and much more. I usually take it once or twice a day just to make sure I've covered my bases if I miss anything I'm not aware of. Of course, I focus on nutrient-dense meals to begin with. That's the basis. But athletic greens makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  39. You know, like, what am I doing? Am I opening and closing my laptop 17 times a day? If so, like, what's happening there? Very good question. You said lists. You said you read. Does reading mean, and I imagine a part of it is getting familiar, obviously, with the menu for that evening so that you have everything that you need. Any other types of reading? When you say reading

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  40. Yeah, you know, I feel like that going up and down the stairs all fucking day is like a great metaphor for people to use. I wrote it down for myself. I'm like, you know, thinking to myself, like, where am I running up and down the stairs all day? Am I going between six tabs constantly all the fucking time? Like, if so, why am I doing that?

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  41. Okay, so how did you, we're going to come back to the restaurant selection, but let's focus on this for a second. Now, I will accept hard work, but the fact of the matter is a lot of people work hard. A lot of people put in a lot of time. That can't be the only explanation Why were you able to do that within a year? How did you approach it differently? Or what did you do that other people didn't do?

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  42. At Grammarcy Tavern. So how did you end up? Not only at Grammarcy Tavern, so I want to hear the story of selection. How did you choose those restaurants? And then. This can wait until later, but separately once you landed there, how did you have free reign? Why would anyone give you free reign in such a situation? So there you go.

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  43. In the process of doing some homework for this conversation, which I always enjoy doing with friends because it'd be super creepy and weird if I was like, hey, I spent like five hours doing internet research on you. But I have the excuse when we have these conversations. So I read that when you're starting out, now I don't know if starting out is quite the right way to put it, but you made a list of, say, five restaurants in New York City that you wanted to work for or at. And you kind of started knocking on doors with a suit and the whole nine yards. And that you ended up.

    2021-11-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #545: Marco Canora — The Art of Food, Eating, Nutrition, and Life · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  44. French chef and very demanding guy, but very gifted, very good at teaching. And Jeffrey was always in the way, right? He was like, he just like could not figure out where to put himself, where he wasn't fucking everything up. So this guy would say to me, go, Jeffrey, you are like my dick. Always between my legs. And I thought that was the funniest thing I'd ever heard. Like, you can't really do it. They probably can't really do that now. Not saying you should, but it is pretty funny. And so I'm curious, though, for you personally, because different people.

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  45. What type of mentorship or Have you most flourished under? It doesn't have to be a specific name. It could, certainly. But one thing I certainly wonder about, and this may be a whole separate topic, but if the kind of demanding chef culture can exist today in some form, right? It just seems like there must be so many landmines. And I'm not saying, look, there's also a lot of bad behavior all over the place. So we don't have to get into that. But it makes me think of like, for instance, Jeffrey, our friend. Jeffrey Zarovsky told me a story. I don't think he would mind me telling it where he was working for some.

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  46. I was just going to say for people who don't, so Miss Emplas or Mis is, correct me if I'm wrong, is basically having everything prepped and in its proper place so that you can execute when it comes time to actually cook. Is that accurate?

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  47. So, what maybe you could tell me a story from your experience? There has to, let's say you're a line cook, so you're not top dog and you're in a situation where Oh shit, you know Sarah Tony called in sick last minute. This is a Tuesday night. It's not supposed to be big. We've got like 50 menus up at the same time. Oh, fuck. And everybody ordered the roast chicken or whatever, right? And you're like, this is going to be at fucking 12 car pileup. And things start going sideways. Can you tell a story of pulling out of a tailspin or like what you do in a situation like that when in your own head, right? Like what your self-talk is when that stuff is starting to unfold.

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  48. So it's just Panic basically like they panic and then they lose the ability to execute on the skills they actually do have

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  49. What were or are some of the most common reasons for someone crumbling under pressure, right? When they have a bad night and they just collapse psychologically or otherwise. What are the most common reasons for that?

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  50. How do you do that? You don't have to name names, but How might the language look? And it's like every day you're going to have a chance to.

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