YouSaid · the spoken record

Mariana Mazzucato

lines on the record: 44
first: 2024-02-21
most recent: 2024-02-21
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I do because ultimately all my work from the books but also to the practice on the ground is always about the economy as an outcome of decisions we're making. There is nothing inevitable. There's nothing deterministic whether it's about climate change or even the geopolitical crises. These are outcomes of what we have decided to do in our public institutions, our private institutions, our third sector institutions. How do you set up an ecosystem that's truly driven by, as we were talking about before, solving the biggest challenges of our time? Of course we can do it. And when we don't do it, we have decided not to do it. There's no forces out there that are preventing us.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And you can go home quite exhausted at the end of the day and dipping into the pool before coming home is a good way to let off steam before you start bossing everyone around.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, that was more just reflecting on how exhausted you can be at the end of the day. And if you go home to my home, which is I have four kids, which I had in five years, so had in a short amount of time reproduced.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Whether you saw it's flattery or an insult. Well, it was very funny, actually, because it was the Times article and the journalist who was a woman, the article was fantastic. And then the male colleagues wrote the title. My favorite headlines, right? She tweeted against the title, which we laughed because, in fact, I mean, I joked about it by saying, yeah, we should be scared when we have such a problematic way of thinking about the economy, but it is quite funny that when you're a woman and you're progressive and governments, you know, might be listening to you and you're bold enough to actually get into the media instead of just talking silently to the less.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, what I like doing is being able to work outside, being able to be very frank and open and critical, because even though sometimes my work has been misunderstood as glorifying government, I think I'm the biggest thorn in the side of governments by actually looking at just, you know, how rubbish a lot of the policies are because they are so reactive. Instead of really helping to, again, create value in a different way instead of just redistributing that value in a problematic way.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Why wouldn't I be at the center of government? Sure. I mean, I've been asked to join government. I can't say more than that. But, for example, also in Italy, I was asked to be a minister, and I was not interested. What I'm very interested in doing is changing, for example, the mindset, the education. We have to remember people aren't just born bureaucrats. They're educated. They go and take they graduate from programs. And if you look at the curriculum behind those master's programs, they're part of the problem. If at best, you know, again, at worst, get out of the way. At best, you're going to fix a market failure. That is embedded in the training and the curriculum. I'm hearing that, but I'm not.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The enemies of enterprise. Well, if that's how you talk, what's going to happen? You're going to have a hemorrhaging of talent from the civil service.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. And I said to him, but you have to be careful, you're part of the problem. By saying you want to bring geeks into government, you're already kind of dismissing the civil service. And the way that Obama, for example, brought in Steve Chu, who was a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, to run the Department of Energy, who was the Minister for Energy under Obama, was not saying, we want geeks in government, come on, geeks, come in. He said, we're going to have an 800 billion stimulus program and use it to green our entire economy. And Steve Chu said, wow, I'll come. Had he been asked, oh, come in and just de-risk Elon Musk or help us set up at best a carbon tax, I'm sure Steve Chu would have said, I can do that perfectly fine advising you from Stanford, right? So how do you make it really ambitious, an honor, exciting to work inside the civil service? You have to change how you think about the civil service instead of constantly attacking it, dismissing it. I began the entrepreneurial state with a quote from David Cameron who said civil servants are”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, he invited me into Downing Street when he was saying that on the first thing, so he brought me in. He said, I've read all your stuff. It's great. And again, we were interested in the entrepreneurial state. We want to set up a DARPA type institution in the UK, of which now, of course, there is Adiyats run actually by a friend of mine, Elanger. In other words, they say.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think there's two different things. One is the current state of the NHS is not a static kind of picture that you take. It's a result of also in recent years, not so much even just underfinancing it, but definitely that. But also not almost treating it, putting it at the center of understanding kind of well-being in this country. So my recent book, The Big Con, How the Consulting Industry has infantilized our government's weakened our businesses, and warped our economies is also about this massive wave of outsourcing that we've seen globally within the healthcare system. In this country, there's been massive amount of outsourcing. What we outsource matters. So really also treating the NHS, not just in terms of the care, but also the innovation. This is one of the things I'm very interested in. How do we bring an entrepreneurial state in innovation state together with the welfare state instead of thinking of these things completely separately?”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, the first thing I did when the five missions came out was I wrote a piece in the New Statesman saying, OK, well, let's think this through properly in terms of why is growth itself not a mission? What would it look like to take these missions again to really design them to catalyze the biggest wave of private and public sector investment in a bold way, as well as behind the scenes, and I say this openly because these aren't private scenes, but they just aren't with television cameras running workshops. I work very closely, for example, with the European Union, which on the back of my work now has a missions instrument as part of the Horizon Program.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Working people at the center of a plan, but that really has to be backed up by serious policies that put their money where their mouth is. But especially that change that narrative, we can foster inclusive and sustainable growth by putting, for example, emission-oriented industrial strategy at the heart of an economic policy, but you also have to fund it. It's not going to happen with just a bit of money here and there.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, the danger is that then you become even less convincing on the economics front. It sounds like you're saying, yes, the Tories made all sorts of mistakes. We're going to solve those problems. We're going to spend on green. Oh, but not a lot of money on it. So it kind of feels like you're neither here nor neither there. And so if people aren't convinced that what they're hearing is a true, different economic narrative and also one that is exciting, that's ambitious, that's bold, that you can kind of get behind, again, like getting to the moon and back, but around our earthly problems, then the danger is, of course, that it depends when the election is. But if the Tories just start handing out a lot of money to those that are hurting and you don't hear on the other side a true different economic narrative, the election could go either way. I personally really believe in the Labor Party's change and thinking and the way that they're talking about the need for not only public sector investment, but new types of partnerships about putting work and the”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, there's three things they should be saying that if you look, for example, at the green economy, which many countries, including Germany, are really spending money on. Germany has green steel, for example, which is in huge demand. This is a 10 trillion dollar sector by not being part of it, you're missing out on a massive wave of investment that we could also be attracting here. The other thing is that when you're not actually making those investments in society, the cost of inaction is greater than the cost of action. But ultimately, if this is also, again, about solving the problems while putting those problems at the center of economic growth strategy, then again, as long as you're doing it in a smart way, and not just helicopter money, that can actually expand the productive capacity of this economy. And that's how we should be showing our fiscal responsibeness. It's not about how little we're going to spend. It's how you're going to invest, and especially to catalyze, I repeat, private sector investment.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of time that people go to prison, you have to tackle the social and economic determinants of crime. That itself, by the way, could become a really interesting mission. How do you make people feel valued? How do you invest in our welfare systems to make people feel valued?”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I hope not, but I do know that what people want to be hearing are real solutions to real problems that they're facing, whether it's cost of living, pollution, crime, but not as a symptom, right? Not saying, oh, we're just going to increase the police force, or even just looking at an institution, like we're just going to give a lot more money to the NHS. But to hear real practical solutions to the immense problems that are being faced. And as we've cut everything, because don't forget, austerity was done in the UK when it wasn't being done in many other places. The US had an $800 billion stimulus program after the financial crisis. This is when we decided that even though the financial bubble that crashed was caused by the private sector, it was caused by private sector debt, not public sector debt, that somehow we were going to solve all the UK problems with austerity. That has caused huge social problems. Look at knife crime in London. You don't just increase policing and increase the amount of...”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, look at what happened. And if investment is the So, again, I'm from Italy, and the so-called pigs, Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain, Goldman Sachs called a sacrifice.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, what I think is incredibly important for labor to do, but I would argue also for the Democrats and the upcoming U.S. election, and really any party that sees itself as a progressive party, I prefer the concept of progressive, moving forwards in a good direction instead of just the left-right distinction, is changing that narrative. This is not about saying, okay, we're going to be fiscally responsible, so we're going to keep the deficit low. Oh, but then we're also going to do a bit of good things here and there, oh, but there's no money to do that because we want to keep the deficit low. It's about completely changing that mindset, which is if you're really going to go after a mission that requires private sector investment and public sector investment, that can actually, if designed well, that's where the missions come in, fuel economic growth, which is the denominator of what, of debt to GDP. So the irony is that what...”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Was the business secretary? I worked very closely with him, but I helped Greg Clark change what at the time was a sector focused industrial strategy. There was five sectors, aerospace, automotive, life sciences, finance, and the creative sector. And they were kind of giving out subsidies and guarantees to these sectors. I said to do what and why just those sectors did they just lobby their way up. So we transformed it into a challenge-based approach. There was clean growth, sustainable mobility, healthy aging in the AI-died economy. And the idea of having a challenge focused industrial strategy and below each of those challenges like in sustainable mobility, having lots of different sectors work together to achieve those problems.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I just think that let's put our, you know, let's walk the talk of missions and missions at least how I talk about it, but I'm not the only one who comes up with words, so I'm just being very specific on what I personally have met by missions. It means intersectoral investment, and it also means an all-of-government approach. So a climate-related mission is surely not just for the Department of the Environment, a well-being and health-related mission is not just for the Department of Health. One thing that ironically I did a lot with the Tories, because since I've been in this country, unfortunately, or I shouldn't say unfortunately, I should be, how do you say, apolitical here, well, the Tories have been in power for a very long time.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Secretary of Culture, but also others, and so on. And so today this kind of latest thinking about missions has been picked up. And what I said to them is just be careful, because, for example, the first mission, which is securing the highest sustained growth in the G7, that's fine as an ambition as sort of an outcome of what you would like to see by implementing good policy, but that's not a policy. I mean, what country wouldn't want to have high growth, right? It's kind of obvious. What do you do in order to foster not just growth, but good growth, sustainable and inclusive growth? And that's where the missions come in. So, for example, a clean growth mission that requires the nutrition sector, the energy sector, the construction sector to change how they are currently operating could foster growth. Why? Because this country is a country that continues to have low private sector investment. So missions that require investment, that can actually help you grow.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So first of all, I've found it wonderful, if you want, that the Labour Party has been using my ideas from back in the day when I wrote the entrepreneurial state. I was talking to people like Chukomuna back in the days when he was still a member.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And as we are today, making sure that big tech monopolies, and I often argue we shouldn't call them big tech because they're actually just media companies half the time, that they should be regulated as such, that that technology is actually governed to make sure that we're not then abusing, for example, people and their privacy.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure. So it's quite funny what people hear when they hear the entrepreneurial state. So one thing is make the investments. If government didn't invest in the roads, that when it makes sense, if the government didn't invest in healthcare systems, in energy systems and so on. But then how do you govern that so it's good for society? That requires a lot of care to the contracts, right? So the fact that, for example, you could argue what society gets back from government investment is in all these knowledge spillovers, right? That should be enough. Well, that doesn't happen unless you make sure that the intellectual property rights are designed in a particular way. Or let's make sure that the government is not owning the medicines just because they invested in them. Absolutely. But make sure then the prices of those medicines take into consideration the taxpayer funded contribution. Or in the case of the internet, how do we make sure that the internet, which is an outcome of public investment, that we aren't then on the back?”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“2009 2013 went from 9 to 90. That difference multiplied by 3 million would have more than been enough to pay back the cylindra loss and the next wave of investment. That's what I think of.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I say two things. One that many, well, most governments don't even make those public investments because they buy into this idea that at best they can fix market failure. So they think it's just about rules of the game and get out of the way. Those that do make those investments then don't have the confidence, the narrative to make sure that, again, people in planet benefit from those investments. And just in the case of Tesla, because I think examples really matter, what was amazing was that the amount of money that Tesla got was the same amount of money that Cylindra got, which was a solar company, which went bust. The taxpayer ended up bailing them out by 500 million. The same amount of money went to Tesla just under that. And how Obama structured that deal was that if Tesla had not paid back the loan, the government wanted 3 million shares in Tesla. That makes no sense. Why would you want 3 million shares in a company that's not very good so it doesn't pay back a loan? Had they said the opposite, we're giving you this money, and if you do pay back the loan and you're successful, we get 3 million shares. The price per share between 2000.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, no, no. It's about governance. How do we govern innovation so that people and planet benefit, especially in the cases where that innovation itself actually came at least partly, if not massively, from public investment? Let's take a very”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So there was two points of the entrepreneurial state. One was the history, just to kind of unveil what I would call the true history behind Silicon Valley, but also in Israel. Israel would not be a so-called startup nation without Yazma, which was its public venture capital fund. The second bit was addressing exactly your point, which is, so what does that mean? If we socialize the risks, how do we make sure that we don't then just privatize the rewards? How do we socialize both the risk and rewards, not necessarily through nationalization and equity stakes? Sometimes that might make sense in some cases. But what I actually talk about are the different conditions that should be in place. So the public, which doesn't mean just the public sector, the state, but people benefit. So in the case of drugs, medicines, how do we make sure the prices of the medicines reflect that public contribution?”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's the innovation agency of the U.S. Department of Defense. But what's interesting about the Internet was that no one said, oh, we need the internet, let's go throw money at that problem. The internet was a solution to a problem, which was to get the satellites to communicate. GPS was a solution to a problem for the Navy to know where the ships were. So the real question for missions are, what are the big problems that can actually then fuel innovation, which solves those problems? And in the case of the iPhone, my point was not the government invented the iPhone. That would be stupid. The point is, where will the future iPhones and those kinds of big innovations happen if government is stopping, which I fear is happening globally, stopping to actually really fund and think big alongside the private sector about the kind of public investments we need to foster solutions to big problems around energy help, digital, and so on.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. In what way? Well, the iPhone or any smartphone, what makes it smarter, not stupid, and no one says, let me get my stupid phone. They say smartphone is the technology that's in it, so internet, GPS, touchscreen Siri, all four of those technologies actually came out of public investments. What kind of public investment? Was it just money thrown at the system? No, these were purpose-oriented institutions, DARPA in the United States, but even the CIA. The CIA actually invested in the early technology that got us GPS. And all these technical...”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So the reason I use that term was actually to debunk this idea that creativity, value, wealth creation, entrepreneurship is just in the private sector and at best the public sector can redistribute value, can enable, can de-risk, can facilitate, can fix problems.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean Britain today has its own versions, I think, of this kind of extreme right thinking. In some places it's more explicit than in others, but I think globally what we've seen is the extreme right coming back also partly, I think, due to the extreme suffering that we have on the ground. And when we don't have clear trajectories of how to solve problems that people are facing, sometimes very easy answers like blame the immigrants. I mean, we face this here with Brexit, didn't we?”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's the song that was very important for the Italian partisans, the anti-fascist movement. My husband, by the way, comes from a family from the Adalanga, part of Italy, between Ganova and Turin, where the partisan stronghold was. And his grandfather's family was all killed, actually, by the Germans during the occupation of northern Piedmont. the anti-fascist sentiment in my family obviously is not only strong but very worried today given what we're seeing including in Italy you know fascism actually coming back you might have heard just what happened what was it last week”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I would say my family has, well, gave myself and my two siblings a critical eye. Like I remember we actually used to sit down and watch the news together at 7 o'clock and we were trained in some ways or heard our parents kind of doubt what was being said on the television screen in terms of you should go out there and kind of conduct your own research and find as many different opinions in Italy with all the problems Italy has one good thing it has always had is that at the newspaper stand we still have our newspaper stands you could buy any newspaper from the extreme left to the extreme right and everything in between and that kind of diversity and heterogeneity of ideas politically has always been quite a feature of the Italian political system whereas in the US for example New York Times Boston Globe Chicago Tribune and then locally very little actually”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's interesting, actually. So I was born in Italy, and when I was four and a half, we moved to Princeton, New Jersey, because my father was asked to move to the university to conduct his research, which has been since back then, since 1973, nuclear fusion. And I think what I've learned from him is the skepticism he has had of just money being thrown at problems, right? So none of what I'm talking about is just about helicopter money or money trees, you know, public sector investment for the sake of public sector investment. I've really learned from him how the structure of the funding for fusion mattered.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First of all, I definitely don't see my role or anyone's role in academia or even in the business community going off to tell governments what their mission should be. But examples of missions, whether it's a mission about reducing the digital divide to zero. So in the next lockdown, if there ever is one, every child on the planet continues to access their human right to education, whether it's having a net zero city region or country. Both of those two types of missions, for example, would require lots of different sectors, a climate related mission is not just about renewable energy, just like the moon mission was not just about aerospace. A digital divide mission is not just about the tech sector. So making sure that in the next health pandemic, as the permafrost melts and all these new viruses come our way, how do we make sure that we are really, really prepared to face a future pandemic?”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Different from de risking. The reason I wrote the entrepreneurial state was actually, which was one of the books I wrote, Debunking Public Versus Private Sector Myths, was precisely to debunk that risk-taking language. The idea that risk-taking is all done by the entrepreneurs versus an entrepreneurial ecosystem.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. So that's actually the tension. How do you provide a clear kind of direction of travel without saying what the solutions are? Because that would be top down. That would kill innovation. So the reason I got super interested in the moon mission was also the language, as you just said, the speeches. Why were they interesting? Because they're the exact opposite of the speeches we hear today. Much of the kind of policy language is about the public sector facilitating the private sector. What does that mean? I'm Italian, facile means easy, making something easier for someone else. If you hear Kennedy's speeches, it was about we're doing it because it's hard, not because it's easy. It will cost a lot of money, but it's going to be worth it because it's going to be an economy-wide project and we need to embrace uncertainty, right? So that underlying uncertainty, the fact that also the Apollo 1 disaster happened, that was seen as part and parcel of doing something difficult. So how do you embrace uncertainty that is extremely...”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But especially bottom up innovation of which much failed, right? So all the things we know that succeeded along the way, camera phones, foil blankets, baby formula against software, these were solutions to problems that had to be solved. So even if they hadn't gotten to the moon, had they blown up just before getting to the moon, it would have still actually been successful in terms of what I call dynamic spillovers, all the spillovers that happened along the way, of which some fail, some succeed, that's what gets you growth. So growth itself is not a mission. Growth is the result if you're able to catalyze due to the excitement, the ambition, but the design of policy, lots of innovation across the economy.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First of all, it has to exactly be a goal. You need to actually be able to say yes or no, did you achieve it? You know, the moon mission, getting to the moon and back wasn't just getting to the moon in a short amount of time was a mission. But second, it has to involve as many different sectors and actors in an economy. Because for me, this is actually about stimulating economic growth with a direction. So to get to the moon and back in a short amount of time, NASA had to work with so many different sectors. It wasn't just aerospace. It was nutrition, materials, electronics, software. In many ways, the software industry, as we know it today, was an outcome of lots of the different problems they had to solve along the way to get all these different sectors together, you actually need to change how you do policy to stimulate bottom-up innovation. So if it was all top-down, if it had been NASA telling everyone what to do, they would have never gotten to the moon. NASA provided a clear direction. It was bold, ambitious, it required lots of different sectors.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You would have learned that the way that economists think about the role of policy in the state is at best, at worst get out of the way. At best, it's about fixing market failures. So what I've been talking about now for about 10 years is that we need to replace that with shaping and creating markets that create a particular type of growth, inclusive, sustainable, smart innovation-led growth. Missions are How to redesign policies like industrial strategy, like procurement policy, which is government as purchasing in an outcomes-oriented way”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I've really come to the concept of missions after a bigger concept. So missions to me are just an example of how to do what, how to actually think about shaping and creating an economy that delivers for people and planet versus fixing market failures. So if you ever took economics classes, which I think you did, right? You did PPE. So the E part of your PPE.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Good question, actually. I think there's great ideas out there, and not everyone is lucky enough to be listened to. But I think it might be because what I've been trying to do is to really unpick the roots of the problem instead of always addressing the symptom of the problems. And my take has been that the underlying economic thinking, economic theory, economic framing is part of the problem. It's part of the reason we have policies that are very reactive, not proactive, and why we also have a bit of a depressed public sector globally.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, besides running my 60 person institute at University College London on Wednesday, I'm off to Davos for two days. On the back of that, a meeting with the Global Commission on the Economics of Water, which I co-chair. And the next week, I'm going to Colombia, the country, not the university, to work with the president Petro's team around really rethinking government in order to put climate at the center of a green economic transition.”
2024-02-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Mariana Mazzucato One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source