YouSaid · the spoken record

Mark Mobius

lines on the record: 49
first: 2022-06-10
most recent: 2022-06-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“It's not all in the numbers. In other words, you know, when we started, we looked at the balance sheet, the proper loss statements, and we thought that was the most important thing. It's not. The most important thing are the people. Who's running the company? What are the associates of that person doing? It's very important to get to know the people because people create wealth.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, first of all, travel. I mean, you're young, you can get out, you can travel to all these countries, and that's a tremendous learning experience to go these different countries and stay humble. Listen to what other people are saying, read as much as you can, and keep on asking questions. Don't think you have all the answers. I remember John Templeton once said, those people who think they have all the answers don't even know the questions. And I think young people should remember that. It's very important.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I also like books about archaeology, so I've been reading a number of books on, I think, Latin American archaeology because I think it's a lot in Latin America it's been overlooked. There's so much emphasis on Egyptian archaeology, but I think Latin American archaeology is incredibly fascinating.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I just finished a book called Double Entry, which is a wonderful book, you know, it sounds boring, sounds like bookkeeping, but it's not. It's about the history of the double entry accounting, but it goes into the whole revolution that took place in the Middle Ages and how people in the Middle Ages adopted the Arabic script and the calculations that came out of the Arab world. It's an incredible book. So I'm reading that. Not necessarily because I'm fascinated by the woman, Cleopatra, but by the era. It tells about what kind of environment she lived in, which is fascinating. Cleopatra, Cleopatra, yeah.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because, yeah, he believed that a prize for religion for the science of religion was most important. So he said, he specified that his prize should be bigger than the Nobel Prize. And of course it still is. They've got an incredible foundation.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, John Templeton was really the man. He was an incredible investor, a wonderful person. He really was an inspiration. And as you know, he lives on through his Templeton Prize. Templeton Prize is larger than the Nobel Prizes.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I found that YouTube is an incredible educational media, an incredible program. And of course I also click on Bloomberg and look at news. If I want to know something about a country, I put news and in the country and a lot of stuff pops up. So those are the two sources that I found to be very, very good.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that's a wrong way of measuring it. You should measure it from the peak to the bottom. And as soon as you get to the bottom, it starts moving. You're in a new bull market. And it's a wonderful time to invest because the percentages are in your favor. So that's what I saw. I looked at the history and I figured, hey, this is not going to last forever. People are very pessimistic. It's a great time to be investing. And it turned out to be right. And by the way, that happened three years ago, or three years ago now. You know, when we had the COVID situation, it was an incredible time to invest. And, you know, that was less than a year that the market crashed and then started recovering.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, my studies showed that all of these bare markets are very short in duration. Maybe they're one or two years at most three years. And unfortunately, many people measure a bear market from the peak of the previous bull to the peak of the next bull market.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. Exactly. You talk to any young person, you realize that they are even benefiting more because they know how to use this technology better than old timers like me.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, and I mentioned that. The reason why I put that in, the Wonderful World is facing because most economists hate deflation, but I argue that deflation is a good thing because deflation means that costs are going down and people are benefiting from lower and lower costs. And what I point out in the book is that technology is making things better and cheaper in terms of pricing power, in terms of earning power. And I've seen that in my lifetime. You know, when I had my own research firm, I had to carry around a selectric typewriter. There were no laptops, no Word, no Excel, nothing of that sort. I mentioned the young people, I had a selectric typewriter, they asked me, what is that? So the technology has really made life so much easier and more affordable. So many people.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, the great thing about inflation is that if you're an equity investor, in other words, an investor in companies that can adjust their pricing in line with higher prices, then inflation is not a problem. In fact, sometimes it's an advantage because you see prices moving and if you're in a company, as I mentioned, with that pricing power, you can do very, very well because they're moving up prices at a rapid rate. It's interesting if you look at the correlation between inflation numbers and, let's say, the S&P 500s, there's very low correlation in those numbers, and that's probably one of the reasons because good companies that are adjusting their prices in line with the devaluation of the currency can do very well. By the way, I pointed out in a book I just came out with about inflation. It's called the inflation.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So there are cases where you've got to pay attention to those macro moves by the governments, but you have to focus on the economic or financial aspect rather than purely political aspects unless, and this is a very important point, unless the political structure begins to change against free enterprise, against companies. And a good example of that was in Venezuela. We were in Venezuela when Chavez came into power. And he started talking about taking over companies, about nationalizing companies, and immediately we got out because we realized that this was not going to be very conducive. And it's good we did get out because companies that we owned. But that doesn't recently. But China is probably a good example where government policies can really have a very damaging effect on individual companies.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, it's still an emerging country defined as a low and middle income country, so that's definitely there. The problem with China, of course, it's gotten too big in the spectrum of emerging market economies because if you look at the emerging markets indexes, you'll find that it's 30% or so China. So whenever China gets hit, emerging markets look terrible. And that's the reason why a lot of people have been sort of turned off because, as you know, so many people are buying ETFs and index funds. But it's a good example of where government policy can have a very big impact on your companies and the measures that China took against the large tech giants in China. Damage the market dramatically because of the impact of those big companies on the China index.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Took the decision to sort of privatize state-owned companies that were previously very corrupt and made a tremendous success of it. And also kudos go to the European Union because being a member of the European Union, whenever we went to court, there were tremendous amounts of court battles. The judges would be looking over their shoulders to Brussels. So we were often treated much fairly than we would have been if they weren't members of the European Union.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That was about 10 years ago. We got the contract to run the country fund for the Romanian government. It was quite unusual situation where they wanted to compensate people who had lost their assets during the Ceausesco period. And they put about 20, 30 percent of all the government companies into a fund. And we won the contract to run that. And one of the companies was Petrom. An OMB, the Austrian company, came in as a majority shareholder of that company, and we were still holding it. And they asked me to be on the board. Romanian companies. And it's a great example of where a country...”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It'll probably mean Putin leaving probably because it would require a complete about face and it would require all of the Western countries to stop the sanctions. Because you must remember, even if I wanted today to invest in the Russian stock, I couldn't do it because the custodians. Not operating there, you know?”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, in our fund, we were out of Russia about a year ago because we didn't like corporate governance issues that were popping up, you know, the oligarchs were taking over a lot of the companies. But I'm not riding off Russia by no means. I think there'll be a day when we'll be able to go back in. And in fact, I personally keep an account in Russia and of course the stocks, a very small account, but the stocks in that account are way down. But I think eventually this will come back. But for our fund, we will not go in until things change dramatically in Russia. Is that going to require Putin to...”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And Great airline and Emirates is even a better airline in some ways. Emirates goes all over the world and I'm able to come here to Europe. I'm now in London and to the US very easily. Excellent airlines. By the way, there's two good examples of companies in what were emerging markets, or maybe you could call them emerging markets, that have really surpassed the US airlines in terms of service quality, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah, these two bases are very good, partly because of time zones in Dubai. The time zone is very convenient, but also because of the convenience of travel.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, Singapore is great for visiting the rest of Asia. A lot of it has to do with the airlines. Singapore Airlines, we've got great connections all over Asia.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I try to travel as much as I can, but with COVID, it's been so difficult. Thankfully, things are loosening up and I'm able to travel. I base myself now in Dubai, and of course I have a place in Singapore. And other countries are beginning to open up. Recently, as I said, I've been in Sri Lanka, in Thailand. And I'm trying to get out to more countries as they open up and they get rid of these lockups. Of course, China is off the terms of restrictions. So that's out of the question at this stage. But yes, I'm trying to travel as much as I can.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Developed and just the infrastructure is just incredible what's happened in many of these countries. So it's become more and more difficult to define specifically what is an emerging market company and even the definition of country. Emerging mark country is blurred. For example, let's say Korea. Korea was a very poor country when we started in 1987. Today it ranks as one of the on a per capita basis one of the richer countries. So the Queens have also always been saying recently that they had not an emerging market country, they're more a developed country, which I think rings true.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When we saw it in 1987, the whole premise of going into emerging markets was to capture the growth, because these countries were the low and middle-income countries on a per capita basis. They were growing at more than double that of the developed countries, US, Japan, Europe, Australia, New Zealand. Now, what's happened is that a lot of these companies, this is in the U.S. might even be called emerging market companies. For example, let's take Apple. Now, what percent of their manufacturing is done in Asia, let's say, or elsewhere? And what percent of their sales are in emerging countries like China? So it's become much more difficult to define what is an emerging market. And if you travel to some of these countries, you'll be amazed at the growth, at the way.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's a great question. One thing you've got to realize is that the world has changed to the extent that a lot of the emerging markets growth is now in the United States because U.S. companies are manufacturing and selling and buying from emerging countries.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, we got caught in revolution in Philippines where they're shooting at the hotel and we were able to get out luckily by helicopter from the roof of the hotel. That was one example, but there were few close calls like that, but never deterred us for some reason. Maybe we were too innocent. We felt that, you know, we have to roll with the punches, so to speak. But there's always some kind of churmo going on. As you know, I was recently in Sri Lanka, and you can still work and you can still visit companies, but meanwhile people are demonstrating on the street.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Exactly. And by the way, that was one of the reasons why we got involved in private equity, because we found so many of these opportunities, but some of them, of course, were not listed. Some of them were listed, but there was no liquidity at all. And we decided, hey, why don't we do a private equity fund where the holding periods for the clients would be five or six, seven years, then we can develop these companies and bring them to the market with more liquidity as we expand. So that was a very, very good move for us.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And liquidity, of course, one of the biggest challenges you get, of course, is liquidity, getting enough liquidity to be able to invest significant amounts of money.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, as the assets expanded, we really had to find new opportunities everywhere. And Africa was wide open. It was just, there was so much there. And, of course, visits, initial visits there really excited us because we realized this is ground that has not been tilled in any direction. Lots of opportunities where there's no information which is an advantage because if you're on the ground, if you're able to travel these places and get information, then you have an edge on any competitor that wants to come in. So I saw a tremendous opportunities in places like South Africa, in Nigeria, in Kenya, and of course Africa is so huge. There's so many countries, there's tremendous opportunities. Of course, the big challenge was to find an equity. Market, a stock market.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It took about five years for the field to grow where once they saw the results that we were getting, a lot of people began to jump on the bandwagon. You must remember that the pioneer on this was the IFC, the International Finance Corporation. They started emerging markets and social funds about a little earlier than we started our fund. So they were on there, and as you know, they were the precursor to the index because capital international was the people that were doing researches of companies all around the world.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh many, many, many times. And of course, many times we were fooled by the information we were getting and very missteps along the way. It is the feature of investing anyway, as you know. But in emerging markets, you have to be special and be very, very extra careful.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Probably the best example was in China. That was when we discovered a company that in China that made the gears for wind power companies about 15 years ago, that's when the whole area... And this company was doing incredible work. We visited the factory and I noticed that the machine tools they were making were top-notch, you know, automated machine tools, and they were doing very high quality work according to their customers. So we decided we'd invest in that company, and that turned out to be an incredible investment. double, triple price we paid. So that was probably one good example of doing on the ground research and finding something that other people were not noticing. And by the way, I think that's one of the features of good investing is finding something that other people are not finding. In other words, try to discover a company that has not been yet so-called discovered by the market.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right, it was not available, of course. Don't forget, this was the age before MIFID. The MIFID program where you had to separate brokerage fees and research. And in those days, we were able to get an awful lot of information free of charge from brokers who we were dealing with. Because you might not say free of charge because we're paying them brokerage commission, but we were going to give them orders anyway. It was very easy to get information, a lot of research from brokers who were doing research. And there were also local research institutions who produce research. So gradually the knowledge built up, of course at the beginning in 87 there was almost nothing available. But by 1995, 96 at that time, there was a lot of information flowing out of these various firms.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that's one thing we found much to our chagrin, that don't talk to just the top management. We made many mistakes by just talking top management, but you've got to talk to the staff, talk to the customers, talk to competitors. Competitors are a great source of information because if you have a competitor who's speaking very highly That's a pretty good sign of the quality of the company you're talking about. And then we also talk to government officials. Are there any transgressions on the part of the company or any problems in the industry? So you really have to open up to a wide variety of sources. And by the way, that's one of the advantages of being on the ground as well.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, very interesting and very good thing that we found when we travel and went to these countries is that you always found people who spoke English, particularly when you were visiting listed companies, companies listed on various stock exchanges, which is where we were looking. Inevitably, in every company, you would find somebody who's going to be able to translate for you. And more than not, the top management were English-speaking, English educated. So it was quite easy to get information and get face-to-face communications with these people. There's some exceptions, but not that often. It was quite good and quite easy to get people to communicate. And even if a company officials did not speak English, we were able to find translators. Easily enough”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“declining or getting very, very weak for one reason or another, there's still opportunities because, for example, an export oriented company can do very well in such an environment because they're earning in dollars and their costs are in local currency. So I would say, yeah, we're more ground up and more fundamentally company oriented in the way we approach things.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, we like to say that we're bottom-up indices in the same way. But that doesn't mean we ignore the macro, the top down approach because obviously, you know, let's say if we wanted to invest in Sri Lanka today, obviously you'd have to look at what's happened to the currency, what's happened to interest rates, what the government's doing, what kind of restrictions are taking place for foreign investors to invest, that sort of thing. But after those critical issues currency ability to move money in and out, then we dig in to the individual company, because that's the key. can survive in a very difficult environment. And you shouldn't be afraid to go into a country where the environment is not ideal. As long as you can get money in and out. That's really the key. Even the currency, if the currency is”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, it's true that we're able to do a lot on the phone these days, and particularly with video conferencing, because you can see the people, but there's nothing like being in a country, smelling the smells that you get, looking at the people, getting a feeling for how people are living, and then you walk into a company, you look around, you observe what the nature of the company is like, what is the morale of the staff, et cetera, et cetera? Being on the ground and seeing for yourself what's going on. So we always think that it's important to be traveling and visiting companies as much as possible.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, that's for sure. Don't forget no internet, no laptop computer, no cell phones. The technology has really changed things tremendously.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, actually, South Korea was, but it was closed for one reason or another. There were difficulties in getting in. You must remember, you know, the whole idea of getting a custodian to say keep your securities, all of these technical issues were there. And Japan, of course, had it graduated into a developed country by that time.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Temptation for me because it enabled me to really expand out of Taiwan into something really exciting. But it was a tough decision as well because I really didn't know what I was getting into. And we opened a small office in Hong Kong. I hired two analysts, two Chinese analysts, who, by the way, stayed with me for 30 years I was in Frankfurt. And yeah, and we started with only six countries. You must remember, in those days, most countries did not welcome foreign investment. They were also either socialists or communists like China and Russia. Eastern Europe was out of the question, of course. So we had only six markets in which to invest. And then we started expanding, gradually markets opened up, and eventually we were investing in something like 70 different countries around the world.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that's for sure. I mean, in 1987, I was sitting there in Taiwan running the fund management company that was doing the Taiwan Fund, International Investment Trust. And I get a call from actually one of the deputies of John Templeton. I had made presentations to him in his space in Nassau, Bahamas a number of times, and I guess he remembered me. As you know, at that time, emerging markets were just the term was coined by the international finance organization. And they had launched an emerging markets fund, and then Templeton said that he wanted to do the same thing. So he approached me and said, let's raise $100 million in New York and do this emerging markets fund. And it was a great...”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It is true that Singapore has incredible variety of dishes because you've got not only all the Chinese cuisines, which, as you know, are very varied. I mean, you've got cuisines in China that go from very, very spicy to very bland and so forth. But then you have the Malaysian and Indonesian foods. And added to that, of course, you have the Indian foods. So it is true. Singapore is quite varied in its menu.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They do remove most of the poison, but some of the sting was still there. It was very similar to in Japan, if you ever had fugu. Is the blowfish”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Actually, that was in Singapore in a restaurant that specialized in special sort of medicinally beneficial foods, supposedly. And this is Corpion on Toast. It was sort of like...”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, it's really interesting when I rack my brains and try to figure out where I like it the best, I really can't come up with an answer because every place I've been I've liked in some way or another, but probably if you ask me right now where would you like to be and probably would be the beach at Rio de Janeiro in Brazil That might be a place that would be nice to be or a beach at Cape Town South Africa. I love outdoor life. I love beaches and that sort of thing but frankly I lived in Japan and Korea and Taiwan, Philippines. I love all these places. I really can't think of anyone that's particularly favorite.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, that was, yeah, international investment trust was a, before that, I was working for a broker in Hong Kong. It was a British broker because the Costa, and they sent me to Taiwan to open an office and also sit on the board of a joint venture they had with local banks and some other British firms, which was the very first investment management firm in Taiwan called International Investment Trust. And eventually the guy that was running it left and I took over, so I became the head of that company which they launched the Taiwan ROC Fund, which The remnants of it are still listed in New York, I believe.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was a professional student. I really didn't want to leave university. And that's the reason why I did a sort of round-robin of these different universities. But then finally when I got my PhD, I said, okay, let's get real. Let's find out what I should be doing in this world.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That happened and waited for that because I got a scholarship to study in Japan after I got my master's degree at BU. And that really changed my life because, you know, the culture shock of being in Japan, completely different culture, incredible country growing very rapidly at that time. That was really what changed me. I decided to go back. I got my PhD at MIT and then went right back to Asia and started working.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, I did. That's right. When I was in Hong Kong, I had a consulting firm, and one of my clients was looking for people to manufacture products. So she had, it was a company in San Francisco called Determined Productions. They had the rights for all of the Snoopy merchandise, all the peanuts merchandise. And she asked me to look for manufacturers in Asia. And one day I said, why don't you start selling in Asia? And they didn't think about that. So they said, why don't you do it? And of course, that's how I got involved in distributing these products in Asia, or at least in Hong Kong and the greater China area.”
2022-06-10 · Masters in Business · Mark Mobius on Emerging Market Funds · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source