YouSaid · the spoken record

Max Kei

lines on the record: 23
first: 2024-09-04
most recent: 2024-09-04
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Maybe a real last word of encouragement to Bitcoiners who want to support Tratfy institutions and kind of like don't know if they're portraying the ethos of Bitcoin. I would encourage them to do so because in the end, I think it's going to happen anyways. This is just how the world of things is going to unravel. And that's why I hope we as Bit Corners, we do it correctly and do it in solutions that Max and other people are presenting that we can push the Transfi more to Bitcoin than vice versa, you know. And that's why I want to encourage these people to actually do this.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, if people are interested in taking a look at the bank, if they have Bitcoin that they want to have custody with a traditional bank, I mean, hit us up. We would be happy to talk to you. And yeah, I mean, always happy to share knowledge when it comes to investment and Bitcoin and how these two things interact”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Financialized, and everyone has to become a speculator and like whiskey and shares and maybe everything that you can think of needs to be tokenized so people can speculate. And maybe this will happen in the future still, you know. We don't know, but maybe Bitcoin takes away this monetary premium with all these things and then people understand, yeah, I don't have to go speculate on the latest tokenized thing, but I can actually just buy Bitcoin. And then maybe a few shares like micro strategy that sent like the test of time will be used to borrow against what I see really these two scenarios where this could go.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, at Swiss Bank, we're also looking at this because, again, in Switzerland, we have this unique situation that you can actually issue a digital token, a digital share token, and it comes with the exact same rights, legal rights as with the normal traditional shares because the Swiss law was changed and now you actually have a shared token, which is the actual share. So we have been looking at this. There have been startups that have been issuing this. We have been trying to maybe custody this because at some point again, yeah, I believe maybe people want to borrow against this as well. And then again, yeah, it's up to the person to understand that it's different from Bitcoin. My feeling is it's going to be either two scenarios, you know, because the way that this all this whole tokenization thing is happening, you know, and everyone is like jumping on this train, I think it's also, it has to do with the underlying pressure that our today fiat money doesn't hold any value. That's why the world is increasingly”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When they now build out these products, the borrowing and lending and potentially more products where they integrate with Bitcoin, they will have to kind of have something where they can with as least risk as possible settle the cash lag. And that's why I think these stablecoins will inevitably make it into banking for sure.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just one last point on this. I mean, exactly that's what also I've been seeing. I'm lecturing on this topic. I'm talking to the bankers, you know, and like maybe four or five years ago, people were always asking this question, how is a CBDC or a stablecoin to be different than Bitcoin? And nowadays, I think Saylor and all these people, they have done a great job in really pointing out why Bitcoin is so much different and why there's so much, yeah, it's just a different beast. And people have been getting this more and more. And that's why I think I'm not worried when there's stablecoin adoption within banking. When I think it will come, because like if we look at where stablecoins have come from, they have been adopted with the crypto exchanges first place because like all these people were speculating and they needed to have some settlement layer there at these exchanges didn't want to have like the fiat risk again the one that banks will now be confronted with and that's why they came up with these stablecoins and that's how they initially found adoption and i think it's going to be the same with banks”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I guess the Swiss National Bank didn't like that because it was kind of destroying their business model, which again, why this stablecoin was probably calmly. Taken down, so to say. So there are all these moving parts. I would assume at some point it needs to come just to counter this risk that you described. And I think it's really this knowledge asymmetry that we have to tear down and then people will get it. And that's one of the moving parts that will come.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think in Switzerland, this has been discussed for quite some time. Just had the regulator publish, I think, a paper on stablecoins again. Haven't really read it thoroughly because it wasn't that well received. But I think in the end, we have to go down that route. And there have been some approaches like with a Swiss stablecoin for sure, you know, the S&B is testing things out like this, our national bank. So they have also been looking at this because they want to. Provide this cash flag on chain, you know? Then again, I mean, we had this one stablecoin issued by one of the institutions in Switzerland, which kind of interfered with the negative interest rate environment that we had in Switzerland. And people were flocking into this stablecoin because the stablecoin didn't have negative interest rates. And then all of a sudden”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Maybe from my point of view, I think that that's exactly right, what you described here, you know, that you don't have this mismatch and then some sort of settlement risk. If you can't then not settle it because it's just the markets are not open or you don't even have like the fiat that you need on chain, so to say. I think it's a huge risk and it's also something that we have been discussing inside the bank and people who are maybe not that close to Bitcoin are asking exactly this type of question. Maybe one step back, there's even the problem that these people don't work on the weekends, and then they're like, oh, then I have to work on the weekend. And so, no, but if you could then kind of automize it through on-chain stuff, then it wouldn't have to be like this. But for this fiat needs to be represented somehow in a tokenized way.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Say, and that's why they are more like anxious or not anxious, they're afraid that they might not be competitive enough. And there again, you maybe are not competitive enough if you have a person who really wants to borrow against a Bitcoin and max it all out. But if you have like a very conservative hodler, and I would again say many of the Bitcoin hodlers I know, they are exactly this conservative type. They would actually be fine with this and say, okay, cool. Yeah, just do it with Bitcoin, no ETF, obviously. And again, really low TVL. So I don't run the risk of getting liquidated. And there again, this is also how I try to like talk to these bankers and try to tell them how Bitcoiners think that they then, oh, that's a light bulb moment. I didn't know that there could be a business case in the first place. So again, that's just interesting and where we still have to go with that.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I have a similar hunch that what Max is saying. I mean, whenever I get asked, like, what are the biggest risks? Maybe next cycle or maybe even this cycle with Bitcoin, I usually point out that this could be one, the ETFs. I mean, we all know Caitlin Long and she's stressing this point again and again. There's no central banks in Bitcoin. So if you mess up there, things can get nasty. And I think at some point one institution will mess things up, which will then be, again, a learning curve for others. When I talk about Swiss banks, and that's the great thing again with a private traditional Swiss bank, they are really conservative. So they also want to on the risk side. They want to keep things as conservative as possible. I mean, how they think it's more like, okay, if we have this service and we allow Bitcoiners or other people to borrow against Bitcoin collateral, we might not be competitive enough because we will have a very low TDL. You can't really max out your credit lines.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The more you familiarize yourself also with the risk management side of things. And then at some point, you can start mixing up real estate, Bitcoin. So this will be a natural way this will evolve. It might take another two to three to four years until we're there, but I can totally see this happening.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Want to do it through solutions like Debify that Max is building, that it's also as transparent as possible, that they can remain like self-custody, some sort, or collaborative custody. So they remain in the possession of the keys and just have the transparency. So I think that's really how it's going to go. And from the bank's perspective, again, I mean, it makes sense to kind of also broaden the services that you have, you know, because now maybe you're still in front if you offer Bitcoin as custody and just as a portfolio add-on, but in maybe two years time, every bank, at least in Switzerland, that's what I feel will have that offering. And then how do you differentiate? And that's exactly where something like this comes in and why the bank is already looking at this. Okay, this is a way for us to differentiate. And then further down the line, maybe you dabble in it with a few designated clients. You go super conservative just to test things out. And the more you grow an experience.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, maybe if I can quickly speak to this, the way I see I will, I think this will unravel is really, why are we offering Bitcoin to buy now for our clients? Why can they custody it with us? Why can't we buy it? Why can we put it into their portfolio? It is really because of two reasons, I would say. For one, it's like people who are passionate about this and have like entered the bank and maybe they have worked for the bank for quite some time and they have pushed for this because they want to see this industry grow as well. That's one of it. But one reason and the other one is surely like client demand. Like people were actually demanding this, seeing like their peers right and left invest in Bitcoin and I can't do it, then you're going to pressure the bank. So either I can do it at the bank or I will probably move to a bank that makes it possible, you know. And the same thing will probably happen here as well with the borrowing and lending. Because like, as you said, there are a lot of wealthy bitcoiners and they want to do it and they will possibly.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Keep it as a generational wealth and hand it down to my kids and then their kids and stuff. So that's really where I think we still have to do some teaching and get that across, that idea so people really understand that, as you said, a lot different. And then also with the risk, yeah, I think they would learn along the way because again, it's not something that maybe fiat banks are used to because there you don't work with collateral that much at least. Or, I mean, sometimes it's not fully reserved. Maybe with a Swiss private traditional bank, it's a little different. It's not one of these systemically important banks. So again, maybe there it could click further because there might be more used to this. So that's where I have my hope as well. But yeah, we're working on it. But I don't think we're just there.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The first place, it doesn't make sense. And then the people are like against crypto or bitcoin. You don't want to land uncollateralized, you know, because that would make it even worse, so to say. And that's really where I think we still have to kind of work on the understanding. Also, as I said, maybe how Bitcoiners think if you then kind of understand, okay, these Bitcoiners, they now have the Bitcoin, they're fully orange pilled. They believe in its future. They also have a clear understanding of where it's going. Then they're like, okay, I don't want to sell. But at the same time, I kind of want to realize the value of this Bitcoin already today. So that's why I want to do the over collateralized borrowing so I can Kind of actualize some of the value already today. And then maybe.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Good question. I mean, I can't speak for each and every bank, obviously, and also maybe there's different opinions and knowledge, like distribution in the bank as well where I work. But I would say generally maybe we're not quite there. I mean, there's a few people, obviously, within the bank who are passionate, again, who have been in the Bitcoin space for quite some time, and they might be getting it because they're talking to peers like you and others and they really understand this. But then within the broader sector, within the broader, like also then these people, I'm not sure if it has really clicked for them already because what I've always heard when I talk to bankers, it's like, okay, you have this Bitcoin. It's quite volatile. And I mean, lending and borrowing is usually in a field world uncollateralized. Because the question I often get is like, dude, why would I take up a loan? Why would I borrow if I have the money?”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Client side where they have been big and sort of like banking like different foundations, different companies, like some of the names probably would sound familiar. They're really an OG bank, so to say, when it comes to Bitcoin. And that really convinced me. And then also just the way they approach Bitcoin, also from a C level, like they are quite open and they do understand Bitcoin. They do understand what it's about. So I was like, okay, it's time probably for me to go back to this corporate world once again. Also kind of help get them to understand how Bitcoiners think and what their preferences are because I've been in the sector for eight years as well. So I have some experience, I would say. And that's how I got to work with the bank. And I'm now more on the private client side, just helping in the investment team with portfolio analysis and just try to get convince people to invest in Bitcoin.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, well, I actually joined about a year ago, maybe to give a little context. I was really self-employed, like 100% in the Bitcoin and crypto sector, but mostly focusing on Bitcoin. And then obviously I was even like a digital nomad traveling the world, like total sovereign individual stuff, so to say. And then a year ago, I got approached by this bank. We were looking for someone who could help us on the private client side to scale things up. And I was like, dude, I haven't worked at a corporate in ages. Why would I ever go back to a bank like this? And then it's like a real traditional bank. 90 years old, quite established, quite trusted by many folks. So I was like, okay, let's give it a try. And then I got to meet all these people. Very nice crowd over there at the bank. They have also been in Bitcoin for the past five years already. So it was mostly on the corporate.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, yeah, my takeaway is I didn't get to attend the entire conference. I only flew in on Sunday, but still from what I got, I was really flabbergasted. So that was really nice, you know, because I haven't been to that many Bitcoin conferences, at least not in a while, like back in the days. There were a few conferences that I intended. So it was really refreshing to be at one of these conferences. And then I was just getting to meet you, Preston was really nice and getting to know Max as well a little closer and just talking to all the people. And in the end, it was the same for me. You know, the Noster thing, I kind of got noster pilled at that point in time, I would say. I mean, I dabbled in Noster for a few like days already in the past. But then I just left to the side. And now it really kind of struck a court with me again that this is so nice, you know, and that there's like when you get an OSPRA and now that I come back from Rego, I was like the last three or four days I spent on Oster and it was really, yeah, the vibes that you get.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Especially intersection Bitcoin and social media, especially for me as a former journalist, it's kind of very much based social media protocol, which is Noster. And I like it. So I kind of become very much bullish about Noster in general. And yeah, it was just general great week. You know, Riga Bitcoin week, we got lucky with the weather, many high quality speakers like you, Jack Mallers, Jack Dorsey, a lot of interesting topics being brought up and it was just a great week overall. I'm tired, but I'm happy, you know?”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“November in Riga is like freezing. It is what it is, you know? For since 2017, three in a row, then two years of MG. He had a baseball, we had a COVID, so we had like two years in a row a break eventually from conference organizing and then 2022 we kickstarted back. It was the sixth edition. We don't know whether there will be a seventh one, we'll see but so far I'm pretty much satisfied and we also have had Nostriga, so it was kind of cool. I know that the topic of this episode is actually institutional adoption, but just wanted to say that I was a bit skeptical about Noster before last week, before Nostriga. And then I actually miss a lot of the talks from Nostriga, but most of the people who went to the Nostriga, they went also to Malticani Measure and then magic happened at Baltic.”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it's the oldest running, so far running Bitcoin conference in the world, might be one of the few. I don't know of the others, definitely one of the recognized ones. We started this in 2017. It was actually in November, so you're lucky that you got it in August because that part of...”
2024-09-04 · We Study Billionaires · BTC198: Institutions Adopting Bitcoin w/ Max Kei and Pascal Hugli (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT