YouSaid · the spoken record

Michael Gove

lines on the record: 65
first: 2025-11-03
most recent: 2025-11-03
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I think he's like a storm or a typhoon in that he's a force of nature which brings some good things and some bad things. And I got into trouble in the past when I've tried to characterize Trump because he so strongly polarizes people that when I've been critical of him folk on the right of call me a squish and a sellout. And then when I've praised him, people have said, you know, you are a stooge of a wannabe fascist. What I've tried to do with Trump To recognize that he's a unique phenomenon and try to make judgments about where I think he's been good or bad without being in a position to make a definitive moral judgment about him.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Overall, while it's brilliant, it does trend ever so slightly to the left. GB News emphatically does not, and so Paul would see that as a corrective to a particular current.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not so much that. More democratic principles. But more than that, what he really likes, and I suppose there are certain parallels here with me, is that he really likes the clash of ideas. So his first intervention in the media unheard was specifically designed to give greater house room and space to what he considered to be the contrary opinion that was intellectually coherent but not necessarily always respectable. And what he believes he's providing with GB News is in broadcast terms a complement to what he believes, and I agree with him, is that broadly sort of liberalish leftish tinge that you have with Channel 4 News sky now, oddly, and the BBC. And I'm not a BBC basher, but I think it's just better to acknowledge that the BBC”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He was a lib dem? No, the thing is that he's one of the most generous philanthropists in the UK. He certainly has firm political views. Some people weren't like the political views even as they admire the generosity. I don't think you can understand Paul without reflecting on his faith. And his faith guides him to believe that if you have talents both in the literal sense of abilities but also in the biblical sense of wealth, you should use it for good and he believes that you should help children with their education. He was involved in helping development work in the third world. But he also believes that some of the people who've been in power in this country have become estranged from what he considers to be the The principles that made this country successful in the past. And above all.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, but I think I don't know what a definitive explanation is, but I think it is observably true that you would not automatically guess from a lot of the time that there are certain things about which I feel passionately. But I would hope, and again, it's not for me to speak for them, that I would hope that most of my friends who really know me would say, yes, he's a bit odd and quirky and so on. But once you get to know him, you can broadly predict where he's going to fall on those things.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It may seem, I don't always seek them out. People are slightly surprised, but they would think, well, he seems so calm and reasonable now. And, you know, he was Bruce Bano a minute ago, and now he's the Hulk. What's going on here? And so I think that is a personality quirk.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I believe so, but I think I'm an awkward and difficult bugger. And Rory's brought that out and you've brought that out, Alistair. And I think that I mentioned the Teresa thing I was and Rory were, you know, our friends were similarly perplexed about our willingness to support Theresa's deal. A lot of Rory's friends thought this is ridiculous. This is a messy compromise that gives too much of the Brexiters, a lot of my friends thought the mirror opposite. But for different reasons, and I thought, look, Theresa brought me back from the wilderness. She's given me a job I enjoy doing where I think I'm making a difference. I owe her loyalty. Similarly, Boris brought me back and I thought he's given me this responsibility and I formed a view of him in the past, but he has given me this chance. I'll stick with him. I think the other thing is that when I disagree often with people's positions, I can be quite pungent and disagreement, but often because I will have appeared conflict averse beforehand, because even though I enjoy taking positions, I don't always see them.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think that we did things that were very green and lots of greens would hate to think that things had moved in a positive environmental direction under a Tory.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the problem with leveling up is I started under one Prime Minister Boris, then there was an interregnum, then I'm under Rishi. There was both discontinuity but also when I returned because there'd been a leadership election in which both the candidates had made promises about restricting house building in Tory areas and so on, it became progressively more difficult. And also the original impetus for levelling up had come from Boris. And when we returned, while Rishi was very, very interested in the policy detail, he wasn't as convinced as Boris had been about the necessity of some of those big changes and devolution and so on. So we were running out of gas in a number of ways. In environment, the reason I mentioned is probably because it doesn't get often mentioned because lots of other Tories wouldn't like to”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think funnily enough the one where I achieved the most per day in office was environment. And I think the one where I achieved the least was leveling up.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First of all, I think that there are some areas where I do agree with Farage. And secondly, I also think that he is absolutely not a racist. And one of the charges that's flung at him is that he either out of prejudice or out of cynicism plays with the politics of race and identity. I don't think that. I do worry, however, that there is so little behind him in reform, in that broad movement, it's just a ragtag array of pirates. And what this country needs is not pirates in charge. It needs a proper navy, as it were, to adopt the metaphor where everyone is saying Together in the national interest and proud to be under one flag.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, I am because I precisely am because it's you're neoliberals that are uncritical worshippers of business. It's your Tories who believe in responsible capitalism. And if you go back to the 19th century, it was the Cobdens and the Brights and the Gladstones that were all on the side of the factory owners. And it was the Shaftsporries and Disraelis and the Salisbury's that wanted to make sure that those who worked in the factories had a fair wage, limited hours, and decent homes.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Out of here, and at the same time, I would also say if the ECHR or any international convention prevents me deciding who's in and who's out of this country as Prime Minister, I am leaving it. Neither the wealthy who are exploiting British workers nor the crooks who are exploiting our borders will actually get in the way of me standing up for working people.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. But just a couple of cases in point. There's a photo from, I think, before Christmas of Mr. Fink, one of the leading figures from our major private equity firm in Downing Street being fated by Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves. If I'd had him in Downing Street, I would have said to him, you're the representative of private equity. Private equity has been responsible for ripping off this country. Look at what happened to Thameswater with Macquarie. You and your people are the unacceptable face of capitalism. We welcome private investment into this country, but the way in which you deliberately drive down investment, drive up the profits that you make in order to make this company valued in a particular way, and then sell it and use carried interest to make yourselves rich, that's offensive.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would demonstrate and articulate a program of reform oriented towards working people who've been overlooked and undervalued for too long.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'd rather Nigel Farage than Keir I don't wish Keios Dahmer any ill, but I think he's a terrible Prime Minister. There are individual Labour ministers whom I admire, people who read The Spectator will know that. It only embarrasses them, I'm sure. There are people like Shabana Mahmood and West Streeting. And as it happens, Douglas Alexander, who I think are really good. But I just think that I feel sorry now for Kehara.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I really don't know because notwithstanding Rory's very well-made point about the confidence with which I express my opinions even though I'm ignorant. The problem is there are just more plates spinning.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I do, though I don't think it's, I personally wouldn't do it because I think that there is a future risks outweigh the current benefits. But I don't think it's crisoidal. I just disagree with it. But more broadly, we don't know. In three years' time, we could have President Gretchen Whitmer. We could have a Democrat in the White House. We couldn't know that the trajectory that Trump has set and that Vance would want to take America in will necessarily be the one that exists in the future. But I think that there are both personal and institutional relationships that an independent Britain should have, much as, and I know this is an over overdone comparison, but Australia or Canada or New Zealand.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think we should have, to coin a phrase in Secliche, a special relationship with Europe. I think I can understand why the Labour government wants to move towards what's called dynamic alignment on certain regulations in order to make certain small businesses, particularly in the food and drink sector”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it can be of economic benefit. I certainly don't think we've had to bear the economic cost that many people say. But that's a different argument. I think it can be of economic benefit. And I think it has been of political benefit.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, we have choices, and some of those choices that we've made, for example, on AI have allowed us outside the European Union to take a position on leadership on AI safety and on AI regulation, which actually helps British business, but more broadly, which Europe? My challenge to you, Rory, is that the Europe that you would like to see is very different from the Europe that we have, and that actually Things like Mario Draghi's report remind us that Europe is an innovation sinkhole and that the political leadership that the EU should be providing on a variety of issues isn't there.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, precisely in some cases they were enhanced, and in some cases actually with Australia and New Zealand, why they were quite extensive trade deals, I'm not sure they necessarily worked in the interests of British agriculture. But my point is that I am not, this is one of the reasons I'm probably a Tory, not a liberal, I am not an ideological free trader. I am not an unapologetic advocate of globalization. I think that the most important thing is to make sure that you have accountable political leadership within a shared political community that can be nimble certainly in response to global challenges, but ultimately that's the most important thing.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The world has definitely changed, but I think it actually makes sovereign control more relevant and more important. And my own view, I've written about this, is that trade formed a very small part of the campaign. It was not a motivating factor for most voters and not for me. But then afterwards, it loomed much larger in people's minds. And during the period of uncertainty about what benefits Brexit might bring, people pointed to trade deals and our friend Liz Truss was racking them up. That was not the aim and not the metric by which we judged”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, both campaigns had to simplify in order to get their message across. So both campaigns, the Remain campaign and the prospect of this emergency or crisis budget immediately afterwards was confected. And I think on the leave side, one of the correct challenges is we didn't spell out, I think, sufficiently clearly all the trade-offs involved.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've tried to often, I haven't always succeeded, think what it must be like for someone else on the other side of a political argument. That doesn't mean necessarily that I pull by punches, but it means I can appreciate why they hold their position. And I don't make any criticism of David Cameron's handling of this on a personal basis. I think that he behaved throughout towards people as well as any politician could ever.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I think I completely understand. So I don't think it was mendacious, but I can completely understand why he felt angry and upset”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Both you and I have already found ourselves defending a settlement with Europe that neither of us thought was perfect, but both of us thought was better than the alternatives, because both of us were probably the last two people standing who still think that Theresa May's deal was a good deal. So there are moments when in politics you think you can and should compromise and then other moments and a referendum is a binary one where you've got to decide. So it's given to folk if they're not MPs or not in the cabinet. They can sort of say I'm not sure, but you had to decide. And at that point, I thought, you know, it's one of those Gunned the head moments. It's one of those, as interviewers do on programs. Yes, I know, answer Alistair. Okay.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In that I didn't want, I felt it would be a distraction from what it was that we were really all working together to achieve. And I also felt that a referendum was not a substitute for a proper policy. And I think that as it happens, and I don't mean to criticize David Undulie, I think that the actual negotiating exercise that he undertook was misconceived and wouldn't have found Britain in the right resting place with Europe at the end. But to fast forward,”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And there are other folk who are quite Eurosceptic, who, in order to stick with the team, will suppress their doubts and so on. So I think it was perfectly legitimate for them to think he'll swallow it.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They definitely knew that. And there is a link, funnily enough, to write Rans in that so often did I object to things that were in the Ministry of Books from other government departments that were actually ministers faithfully asking for permission to pass EU law into British law, that I was called in by the Cabinet Secretary to be told off. And I was told you can't do this because this is EU law. And by definition, it automatically becomes British law. And I said, well, why is it in my box? Why are you treating us like idiots, inviting us to agree to something that's already been agreed? So, you know, it's a minor radicalizing factor. And I did make it clear at certain points, but I think that both David and George thought that Michael”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think that I wasn't perhaps as vehement enough early enough about my concerns with them, though they did know, you know, it is the case that...”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You were on the side of the Unionists. And I remember with my ex-wife and my kids staying with my mum in the February half term, just as Cameron's negotiation with the EU was reaching his culmination. And being, I mean, nobody cares about my feelings, but I was in agonies about what to do because I knew that it would be difficult either way. There were a variety of people I talked to about it. And in a nutshell, the basic view was You've got to do what you think is right because you'll curse yourself if at that point you don't stand up for what you believe.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, yeah, I did. I let him know what I thought about it. Obviously, George was much closer to David and a much more trusted advisor and much more aligned with him in so many other areas. But it was certainly the case that I said that I thought it would be a mistake. And David thought that I would bury my feelings about it. He famously, I think, Rory's remarked on this, say, you know, there are two types of people in politics, team players and wankers. And so his natural view was if you weren't on the team, then, you know.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I do think it was that Brexit was the right decision. And I think Rory knows, sceptical about having a referendum. I didn't think it was necessarily a very good idea, and some of that was selfish because I didn't necessarily want to be in a position where I knew. Very probably on it. And did you try and persuade”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, very possibly, but I think it is part of the reason we have a cabinet is that secretaries of state and ministers should not be in their own silos. There are some things that should legitimately be...”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I will. The two things I'd say, I do believe that I am a proper Tory, but the thing that I would say, the reason I invoke Tony Blair is I think it was an outstanding Prime Minister, but he, when it came to home affairs and crime, was operating on the basis of yes being a lawyer but an employment lawyer, having a broad idea of how the criminal justice system worked, but not a detailed one. But he had very good instincts on issues like antisocial behavior. He went to the trouble of talking to the police on the front line. So he wasn't an expert. He wasn't a Helena Kennedy or master of the roles, but he was very good in that area. So I think that you can be a very good Secretary of State or politician without having the deep expertise that some have, but you need to have those people around you. Then on the question, before you get on to”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A disaster. No, but one of the things, and I know that my Tory friends hate me for this, I'm a big fan of Tony Blair, and you might think Alsta, that it's for all the wrong reasons, in my case it's for all the wrong reasons. It's because”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There are two things. The first is overall, and I'm sure Elst will laugh, there's generally a lack of expertise and policy formulation. That is absolutely correct. But it is not the job of a Secretary of State to be an absolute expert, either in their area or in other areas. It is their job to exercise political judgment. And that means having ideally an appetite for knowing more and more about their area, but being able to ask tough questions and to have the interests of the citizen and the country in mind. So, you know, I don't think there will be, whether they were successful or unsuccessful chances of the exchequer, chances of the exchequer who will have known as much as the 364 economists who wrote to Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s say, That her policy was wrong.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, because accumulation. Of stuff by the end of 2014 was such that it was probably wise to move me out of the way because he had to be focused on the general election.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“About it, and yes, it's irritating, but I think you get better government if you have that degree of challenge rather than everyone meekly acquiescing in allowing a single minister to pursue his or her hobby.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Departments all the time. Every night in a ministerial red box, you get, as Rory knows, and Austin knows, you get letters from other government departments saying we're going to announce this policy on plastic bags or whatever. We're seeking permission. And most secretaries of state just tick and so on. I took the trouble to read them. And then if I disagreed, I would wait go for a walk and whatever. And then if I really disagreed at the end of it, I would say no, I object. And I thought, I'm not here as a robot. I'm here to say, I think this might be a political mistake. And, you know, of course it's bloody irritating for someone else to have to justify and defend themselves. But if one thinks about it, ideally that is cabinet government that you have cabinet ministers who are prepared to say, look, it's not really my strong point, but have we thought?”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wasn't responsible for migration. Policy. But my view was if you're in a collective, if you're in the team and you have a chance to contribute, you should. And so therefore, if I felt, and I was actually, even though it may not have seemed like it, I was exercising a degree of self-restraint.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I may well be. People sometimes say now to folk like me who are associated with the 14 failed years of Tory rule, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? I mean, I was actually in the Kamovs. I wasn't responsible for migration policy. Now, you might consider the Boris wave to have been a great thing, a terrible thing, you know, whatever.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think I ever had control of him fully. So there are two other things. One is, you know, there's this thing in politics and it sounds terrible, but maybe it is, that sometimes the people who work for a minister, not just special advisors, but civil servants, will think we've got to protect the principle.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He said some disobliging things about David. However long someone spends on a particular role, unless they're a real master of diplomacy, they'll end up riling various groups that they engage with. So even the most emollient Justice Secretary will end up riling the prison officers associations sooner or later, and the teachers were scundered with me.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There were a combination of things. So, the first thing is I'm a great fan of Dom. I know he's a very Marmite figure. The best special advisors have one of two things, and ideally both. One, they are properly honest in private, and two, they're original. They provide something that other people don't. And the thing about DOM is that he is brutally honest to the point of scorchingly so. And he is original. Some people would say wacky, some people would say, well, it's all very old to be original, but if your ideas are crazy, there's not much merit in that. But I do think he's genuinely original and creative. On the whole question of why David Sackt stroked Move Me, yes, so he was obviously very irritated by some of Dom's activity. Secondly, after Dom left, he left before I was moved.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you change things, even though it might seem nice and London in good in policy terms, you're asking a group of bureaucrats in Cumbria to change the payment system. I as sure as anything will get the wrong check in the wrong post at the wrong time and I survive, Mr Minister, on 20,000 a year. So all very well your fancy schemes, but if you screw it up, I lose that. So being able to recognize that, but not allowing that to be a blocker on change is important.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'd like to think so. I'm not sure. You've got to also understand why it is that particular groups hold the view that they do. So again, if you're going to change the way in which you support farmers and you say, look, the old common agricultural policy is rational. This is a more rational way. You might think, oh, you know, this is smart and this is clever and all the rest of it. But to be fair to the farmers, you know, they have two points. One, have you dealt with a rural payments agency, the bureaucracy responsible”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They did. I think that obviously they were unhappy that not everything that they wanted we delivered. But also, Daniel, to take a case in point, there are some arguments in which we are both profoundly interested, but I don't know how many rest as politics listeners are, like what should happen in our uplands and the arguments that exist between those who favor rewilding and those who support hill farmers. I can see both sides of that argument. And I suspect, Rory, you would probably think that I see it through a naive green lens. You'll probably write it as a green lens.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Run up against them, then be ready for that, but be ready for that by having an analysis of the problem and an explanation of it that means that they have to defend their position not on the basis of saying, hello, we're the teachers, you should love us, but actually, well, what's this guy got wrong? I mean, he may not be a teacher, but he's clearly interested in what happens for our kids, and he's making a worthwhile argument. So at DEFRA, one of the things that I found is that we could make common cause with a lot of the environmental NGOs and pressure groups.”
2025-11-03 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 160. Michael Gove: Education, Brexit, and Trump (Part 2) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source