YouSaid · the spoken record

Mikey Shulman

lines on the record: 81
first: 2025-01-10
most recent: 2025-01-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“I think you asked, and we didn't sidetrack. It's like, what should the future of music be? Because should is the real word there, because we need to build it. It's the question.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Coolest tons of usage with kids. Kids love music. Kids resonate deeply with music. Half of my usage of the tools with my three-year-old. So that I didn't expect. But lots of things we didn't expect. We were at the top of what people put, the Gen AI products that people put on their ramp credit cards, which means that lots of, and so we were surprised, people are using this for cold outreach, for sales, for marketing, for all kinds of stuff. That's very cool. That's very exciting. That's entirely new use cases. And it's very hard to say no to cold outreach when somebody wrote you a personalized song. I imagine it's very effective.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Need to change what I teach people. That's scary, and that's a lot of work. But if I don't change what I teach people, I'm not really preparing them for the real world. Most companies are going to let you use GPT when you're like doing your day job. I should probably prepare people to do that.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“People are not good at realizing what is the first order effects of the issues they deal with or the things that they are doing. And people usually glom onto the second order effects because sometimes they feel, I don't know if they feel smarter or it feels closer to home, but people are not good at judging effects. I'll give you some examples. I teach a corset at Sloan at MIT's business school. So like you need to have an AI policy because it's a course. Like are you going to allow students to use ChatGPT? And you get a lot of people saying like GPT is the end of education. And my answer to that is like, no, the first order effect here is that GPT means that every person in the world has like a median competent tutor or sidekick. This is obviously amazing for education. And if you can't recognize that fact, I'm not sure you have such good judgment. Now let's talk about the second order effects, which is that like, yeah, all my homework's just got hackable by, you know, one good prompt. And my response to that is like, yeah, okay, so I as the instructor now.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The first order thing is I have less time, and so you have to just be a little more ruthless with prioritization. The flip side answer is patience. Like when you see fast learners, you have to be patient with them. Little kids are incredible learners. They pick up things so much faster than you and I do, and it is incredible to see.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ooh, probably that good judgment is more important than good skills. And it's because we know how to assess skills and we don't know how to assess judgment. So everybody's teaching for the test here”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, off the top of my head, like everybody's asking for an API. Do we want to do that business? I don't know. That doesn't really build the future of music that I want to do. There's always a tension between how much of the power tools, the old power tools do we want to build versus figuring out what the new power tools are for creating music.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't know if this is special to us. I think it's focus at any given time there are 30 things that we could do that would be very impactful for the company and we have to choose three of them. We have to choose carefully. The future of music is greenfield right now. We could be tackling a lot of different things and we have to be choosy with which ones we take.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My gut is no, but most banning things, I have a visceral no reaction to banning things. Apparently I just learned Australia has banned social media before the age of 16. I don't think that's a good idea either. We should, like, these things are typically fairly heavy-handed and don't necessarily accomplish what they want. Maybe that's a trade tactic. I'm also not sure you want my opinion on that. I'm like some tech guy who does music.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I live in a bubble in Cambridge, Massachusetts. You live in a finance bubble in London. Those people are going to potentially have a disillusionment. But is the whole world going to be like that? I don't know. I'm not sure because I think most people are still not expecting anything.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There was a crop of people who made playlists. This is compilations of other people's music. And it's just like, I have good taste, and you are going to care to listen to my playlist. And I think this is where it goes. It's like, I have good taste. I make good pseuno music. Yeah, I can't play the piano. I can't play the guitar, but I am very good at picking through the suno music and finding the way to make it sound like you wanted it to hear. And that makes me a creator.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Hemingway said, Right drunk, get it sober. I think where this all goes is that, and this is a very natural progression that's already happening. Where does this all go? It's increasingly taste is the only thing that matters in art and skill is going to matter a lot less because you're going to be able to make a lot of stuff and the people who are going to be recognized are people who are able to pick from the vast quantity of stuff and use, in the case of music, their ears to say that was good and that was bad. That is accelerating a trend that already exists. Think about it like 30 years ago you wanted to be a rock star. You want it to be an amazing guitarist who could tread. You know, and 15 years ago, you wanted to be a DJ where you had to learn these pieces of software. But maybe it wasn't quite as virtuosic as it was if you had to spend $100,000 playing your instrument. And now people want to be influencers. I want to be famous for the sake of being famous. In music, it's not really influencers like that, but look, you see this even with playlists.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Fantastic. No, that's at least that's two. You made it for somebody. Yeah. Like, that is so much more social than what exists now, where you listen to music from artists. You love the music, and you see a piece of yourself in the artist, but you don't actually interact with them. You making a song for your girlfriend is amazing. You might say, well, I really wish you had spent 10,000 hours playing guitar, and then you could have done that without the help of Suno. But short of that, is it bad that you did that? No, I think it's actually great that you did that. I don't want it to be only that. Music is social, but there's something about art that's all about the artist. And, you know, I think a lot of artists won't even care what other people think of the music. It's just a world where that type of stream is just so pleasurable that you forget about everything else, I think, is not as big or good or valuable as what could be.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Totally. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. You saw this with the Drake weekend Ghostwriter thing. It's like, and it'll be good and it'll just get better and easier. That's not a good future. There's another bad future, I think, though, which is like music is meant to be social, but there's like a local optimum, I think, where music gets less social and it gets way too hyper personalized. And so I would hate for the future of music to be you open your phone, you open an app, you hit play, and it knows everything about you, it knows what you did this morning, it knows who you text.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Too particularly bad ones. One would be like a group in another country that doesn't want to follow the laws. We'll make it so that you can, without permission, impersonate your favorite artist and just make endless copies, endless Ariana Grande songs, like you said, without giving assent to Ariana Grande. That would not be great.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What that person would do in that case is say yes, AI is an important part of the creation stack right now and not try to address the like, well, what about all the other people who want to create with these new tools also? It applies just as much to me as it does to the CEO of the Universal Music Group of like, we can actively build a bigger, better future of music with AI, or we can just wait and someone else in another country, not bound by U.S. laws, not with the same intentions will build a worse future of music with AI. And I can think of lots of dystopia futures.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think some of this applies outside of music, but I think to whatever extent there are two sides of this thing. There's like the old industry and then there are the disruptors. And there's one thing that both sides will agree on. And everyone on both sides will say, well, we know it's coming. We know it's inevitable, meaning AI. And I think people in the existing industry will say, like, we know it's coming. And they say this, I think. They don't want to sound like DCLs. They don't want to sound like hermits, right? And people in the AI community will say it. And because it's like a security blanket, it's like, oh, don't worry. I'm not coming to disrupt you, but we know it's coming anyway. And I think in both cases, this is a really bad thing to say because in both cases, on both sides, this is basically just putting your hands up and being like, it's coming. I don't even have to do anything about it. And the future is ours to build. We can build a good future of music with AI and we can build a bad future of music with AI, or we can sit back and let someone else do it. And I'm quite energized by the fact that like...”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There's a bit of that, I think, where SoundCloud goes wrong. I mean, there's two things one is it's still hard to make music. You're kind of limited there, and it's still kind of, there's the creators and there's the consumers, and they don't really mix. And so that's a bit unfortunate. Music by itself is social. Is it social Facebook social? Is it social mayor? You have like lots of peer-to-peer stuff or the long tail of Instagram. Is it social like the top end of Instagram where you have people who look like they spend mid six figures on every post and make their livelihoods doing it and have a hundred million followers? The answer is it's both of those and it's everything in between. And so it's kind of crazy. Like Instagram is a good example here. It's kind of crazy that the same platform lets me DM you something silly and lets me consume content from a true professional who spends all day agonizing over this post. Why can't music be the same way, right? Like music shouldn't be special like that.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, because we've always prioritized growth on top of revenues. You know, this is like good people have the capacity to keep both things in their head. Yes, we want to grow, but we also don't want to sacrifice revenues. And if you hold my feet to the fire, maybe I can give you a quantitative number of I care about growth twice as much as I care about revenues. But like where we are now in our journey, we are not really making trade-offs yet. You know, we've reached a tiny fraction of the addressable audience for the product as it is today. We are building much more product with way more valuable and fun experiences that will reach an even bigger audiences. So like if I am making trade-offs now, I'm doing something wrong.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Care about it, I think is the answer. There's no secrets here. It's like we started charging from day one, maybe that was a bit of a happy accident. We always looked at it. And, you know, I care a lot more about building a giant platform right now than I do about revenues. But I need to make sure that these things are somewhat commensurate. Sure, you can come up with edge cases where like I have to sacrifice, I have to do the Intel thing. I have to sacrifice all my revenues for this next opportunity. But absent that, the revenue's growing is a sign that people are experiencing something that they want to pay for. And that is a good thing and we shouldn't be ignoring that.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the good cases. In the bad cases. In the bad cases, I'm not going to give it to you. Yeah, exactly. No fucking way. So that's billed as very founder friendly, and it's actually the opposite.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“99% of the time, yeah. There's like lots that I wish I knew before starting this company. What do you know that you wish you should know? We reserve a good portion of our fund for capital later on in case you need it. That's code for like, I'm going to take my prorata and there's nothing you can do about it. Stuff like that.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I think about capital as a weapon, and you can go and deploy it. And if you have, there are step changes where more capital lets you do something differently from if you just added 10% more capital to your balance sheet.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Some people are worth it, but I think as you scale, exceptions are a sign of judgment. I think judgment is so underrated on how important it is. It's like compared to people's skills. And as you scale, the judgments required to make these exceptions, I think it's very, very hard. We are much bigger than we were a year ago. And I think this is already beginning to get difficult on like, is that person an exception? Is that person an exception, et cetera?”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We never, you know, we built the company in person and we make exceptions for people to be remote. And it is generally worth it. It's just a”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I really hope that's not true. Somehow this would be a huge missed opportunity if we are caring about the inputs and not the outputs. Shouldn't you measure it by the quality of the music or the quality of whatever it is that they're doing, right? Maybe if it took a really complicated prompt, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Well, if it took a really complicated prompt and 1600 iterations, that's a failure of my product, not a failure of the candidate”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Let me preface it with OpenAI. ChatGPT is amazing. They did every AI company a huge disservice because everybody thinks that just like empty text boxes now the right interface. And it is for ChatGPT and it is incorrect for basically everything else. I hate to be this guy. I'm going to reject the premise. I hope that in six months from now or 12 months from now, we're not using the word prompt. There are just far more intuitive ways to interact with the music and we shouldn't be guiding you. We should be listening to you.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh boy, I'm always thinking about the UI should just in no way resemble what it does today. But I think good UI is just like, what did you enable that is completely not doable in the old pattern? In thinking like that, this would be, what could I not do in a digital audio workstation? It wouldn't be really easy for me to like take a whole song and cover it in a different genre. But like if I think about, oh, that is actually something somebody might want to do. Let me think about that as a first class citizen workflow and let me build that. And that could be a really simple UI, a really beautiful UI, really intuitive UI, but it's also just totally different.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“By the way. Well, nobody leaves Discord service. Now Discord serves a completely different purpose, which is it is a community and it is an amazing resource for us to talk to the community and an amazing resource for us to get feedback from the community. But I think that the product would have reached more people if we had built that web app sooner.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A very obvious one for me is actually getting off of Discord. We released our first product in August of last year. And in November, we put up a very thin web app. And I got this totally wrong. I said, we're going to be on Discord forever. I look at mid-journey, they're printing money. It's just a Discord bot. Now it's not. But at the time it was, I did not appreciate just how much a good UI will totally change the experience for people. Discord is not the best UI for what it is that we do. It's better for Midjourney than it is for music, but so much more is possible. We released this web app, which is not even the full functionality of the Discord bot in November, and it takes five days for 90% of the traffic to move over to the web. Five days. There's no world in which you can say that I got that right.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I hope people find it more engaging. Let me answer the video question more tangentially like this. The vast majority of Gen AI video companies have asked us for an API so that they can have pseudo music behind their AI videos. And the answer is always no. The reason is we are trying to make music more valuable for people, and being the background music for your video is not making music more valuable. This isn't the cost thing. You can go get Epidemic Sounds music for very, very cheap, and that can be the background for your video.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Video is engaging. There's a ton of just background and listening to music, which on its face is not bad. I'm not anti background listening to music, but there's so much more that is possible. You know, I'll point this out to people. I interview a lot of engineers, maybe 100%. I'm not sure I've interviewed an engineer in the last two years that does not listen to music while they code. But the whole point of that is not to pay attention to that music, right? Like so much more is possible with music than something you put on the background to deliberately not pay attention to it.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I hope that Spotify wins. It would mean that people are finding music more engaging. YouTube is more engaging than Spotify as measured by the amount of the RPO for ads, for example.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think people don't realize the extent to which the music that is popular is a product of recommendation algorithms. You should ask somebody at Spotify or a TikTok and not me. I think that they probably reverse the causality. Things break on TikTok and then they become famous on Spotify, but that is a function of both algorithms and people pushing music and not necessarily only a function of the quality of the music.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In some sense, it gets harder, in some sense it gets easier. People don't realize the extent to which discovery is already extremely algorithmic now and that you are not always being fed as much of the long tail as maybe you want, or maybe it is exactly what you want.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not obviously good or bad, it just is those algorithms have spread that music to way more people than otherwise would have.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh boy, we could talk about this for hours. Songs have gotten shorter, yes, but also much more homogenous in melodies, harmonies, song structures, and music innovates very much sonically. Like they're really interesting sounds and they all fit into the same song structure. And this is a product of the technology that people use to make music, digital production. This is a product of streaming. This is a product of platforms like TikTok.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, yeah, of course We always wanted to do this and continue to want to do this with players in the existing industry. Timberland wasn't the first, and he certainly won't be the last.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, I do. But I think the real thing that this does is that you have someone who has made it, who does not need to do this publicly saying, yeah, I use Suno and it's awesome, this kind of gives cover to up-and-comers.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you talk to anyone in the business, they will tell you he is the cutting edge of technology and music and has always been. He was a fan of the product actually before we met him, which is amazing. And I think you can't fake this stuff. And so it's really an amazing partnership for a variety of reasons. One is we learned a ton working with him. We do a lot of product development with him. So he has access to stuff before anyone else does. The next thing is that obviously this provides some amount of recognition for us.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Imagine you found some creator that you really love, teenager in Saskatchewan, and you just love this guy's music. You could have a Patreon thing where you can pay him directly. You could have your own kind of fork of his model if he were cool with that and you were cool with that and you're paying him for that and now you're making songs that are your riffs on what he does. Let me give you an example. We had this remix contest with Timberlyn and a tremendous number of people submitted remix songs. And to me getting to remix the music of your musical idol is like the ultimate form of engagement with them. It is so much cooler than like honestly even meeting them backstage after a concert. The old model of StreamShare does not properly account for an interaction like that.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The thing that people don't realize is that right now we've made something where people enjoy making music so much they are paying to create the music. This has nothing to do with listening. I think that a big part of the future of music is rethinking a lot of these business models where right now it's set up in this capped stream share. The stream share is a certain size and everybody is kind of fighting over it and artists don't make a ton of money from that and there are hopefully new business models that you can figure out that are much more tied to the enjoyment that people get that are way more tied to artists if people want to actually be interacting with the artists themselves.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Doesn't own all of her music, but she owns her name and likeness. I would love to get to a world where she can have models that make Ariana Grande songs. You know, you've noticed in our product, you can't make Ariana Grande songs. If you put her name in, we're going to wave our finger at you and you're going to say, like, that's not what the future of music is. That's not original music. Suno is for original music. It's not for impersonating people. But if she uses it, it's not impersonating. This citizen immensely powerful tool for her to make music, for people writing songs for her to hear it how she would do it or maybe even she's forward-leaning enough to want to give this over to her super fans. And her super fans can make, but I can only describe as the equivalent of fanfiction if she wants that. And that would be an immensely engaging activity way more valuable and way more engaging than like having an AMA with her. If you're a huge fan.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The answer is yes, and I would love to do that, depending on what her contracts look like. She might not even be allowed to do that, which would be kind of crazy.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Actually, yes. So it's a biased sample of artists that I speak to, but the vast, vast majority of artists that I speak to behind closed doors admit that they use and love.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or both, or neither. I think there's lots of different worlds that are possible here. Time will tell which of these things is correct.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Wow, okay, that just shows you that there is a lot of friction. And if there were two worlds of music, I think that would A, be friction for the average consumer. But I actually hope it's much more than just consumption. There shouldn't be like a set of fun experiences around making and sharing music, and that is somehow disjoint from all of the other music that you listen to at a party while you work out, while you're in your car commuting, whatever it is. Like together, these things are much bigger than if you just separate them.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“From a customer perspective, at the very least, it would just be a bummer if I had to go to two different places. I don't know if there's any content that you know about that doesn't exist on Spotify that you're looking for. But it's a huge pain in the butt to go to another app to go find it.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Huge open question for how do you do this in a way that doesn't impart just massive bias into models? We work on it a little bit. The bigger players are hitting data walls and are more actively working on it. And like everything else, it's really nice to have the big players solve a lot of the really thorny problems for you and you can kind of focus on your competitive advantage. So I'm hoping somebody solves that problem and it's not us.”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Most people drop out of that pursuit because it was hard. The people that you know that run, this is a highly biased selection of the population that fell in love with it”
2025-01-10 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20VC: The Future of Foundation Models | The Future of AI Consumer Apps and Why OpenAI Did a Disservice to Them | The Future of Music: Spotify vs YouTube & Spotify vs TikTok: What Happens with Mikey Shulman @ Suno · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source