YouSaid · the spoken record

Missouri

lines on the record: 59
first: 2026-02-05
most recent: 2026-02-05
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“That is the point of this. So, unless regulatory efforts actually come in clamping down on these companies and saying, okay, we actually now have to dictate what your models are allowed to do and we're going to have repercussions for you if we find out what your models are doing and not supposed to be doing. That is the next stage. We have to have this as a conjunction. I think that will be beneficial in terms of having that with labelling, with metadata tagging and stuff, but alone there is never going to be a perfect solution to this.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“From this event is probably going to be some kind of regulatory efforts. There's going to be some kind of legal involvement because up until this point, there have been murmurs of how we're going to regulate stuff with the online safety act in the UK and everything now kind of pointing, hey, AI is making a lot of deepfakes of people that we don't like and we should probably talk about having rules in place for that. But up until that point, these companies have basically been enacting systems that are supposed to help us out of the goodness of their heart out of the oh we've spotted that this is actually a concern and we're going to be doing this but they haven't been putting any real effort into doing so otherwise again we would have some kind of solution by now where we would see some sort of widespread results at the very least it would involve working together having widespread communications and that's supposed to be happening with the CAI with the initiative that everyone else is currently involved with there are no results we are not we are not seeing them Instagram made a bold effort over a year”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Does seem like these platforms, maybe modernity as we experience it today, have been built on you can trust the things that come off these phones, right? Like you can just see it over and over and over again, social movements, rise and fall based on whether or not you can trust the things that phones generate. And if you destabilize that, you're going to have to build all kinds of other systems. I'm not sure C2PA is it. I'm sure we will hear from the C2PA folks. I'm sure we will hear from Adam and from Neil and the other platform owners on Decoder. Again, we've invited everybody on. What do you think the next turn here is? Because the pressure is not going to relent. What's the next thing that could happen?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Not going to happen. If we're thinking about adopting this platform, just this platform, even this in conjunction with stuff like synth ID or inference method, it's never going to be an ultimate solution. So I would say resting the pressure on we have to have AI detection and labeling, it's failed. It's dead in the water. It's never going to get to universal solution. That doesn't mean it's not going to help if they can figure out a way to effectively communicate all of this metadata and robustly keep it in check, make sure it's not being removed at every instance of being uploaded, then yeah, there'll be some platforms where we'll be able to see if something was maybe generated by the eye or maybe it was a verified create a badge, something, whatever Missouri is talking about where we're going to have to start verifying photographers through metadata and all of this other information. But there is not going to be a point in the next...”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I would say this is failed. I think this has failed for what has been presented to us because what CTPA was for and what companies have been using it for are two different things to me. CTPA came about as a, I will give it its credit because Adobe's done a lot of work from this, right? And the stuff it was meant to do was if you were a creative person, this system will help you prove that you made a thing and how you made a thing. And that has benefit. I see that being used in that context every day. But then a lot of other companies got involved with that and said, cool, we're going to use this as our AI safeguard basically if we're using this system and it'll tell you it'll tell you when you post it somewhere else whether it's got AI involved with it which means that we're the good guys because we're doing something and that's what I have problem with is because CTPA has never stood up and said we are going to fix this for you. A lot of companies came on board and went well we're using this and this is going to fix it for you when it works and that's an impossible task. It's just”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When you talk to the industry, when I hear from the industry, it is the drum beat that you've mentioned several times. Look, it's going to get better. It's going to be slow. Every standard is slow. You have to give it time. It sounds like you don't necessarily believe that, right? You think that this has already failed. Explain that. Do you think this has already failed?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're involved with the process behind developing these systems. It's kind of more, it's the problem that they've set themselves an impossible task. In order to use any of the systems that we've established so far, you either need to be best friends with every AI provider on the planet, which isn't going to happen because we've got nefarious third-party things that focus entirely on stuff like nudifying people or deepfake generation entirely. This isn't kind of the open AI or the big name models, but they exist and they're usually what's used to do this kind of underground activity. They're not going to be on board with it. So you can't make bold promises about resolving the problem universally when there is no solution at hand at the minute.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I would like to think it would push them into at least being more vocal about their involvement at the minute. Those are the two-sided thing. At the minute it's you can't tell if a photo is real, but also a less nefarious thing. It's like Pinterest is now unusable, right? As a creative, if I want to use the platform Pinterest, I cannot tell what is and what isn't AI. I can, but a lot of people won't be able to. And there is so much demand for a filter for that website just to be able to go, I don't want any of this, please don't show me anything that's generated by AI. And that hasn't happened yet. They've done a lot of other stuff on it, but like...”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is there user demand for this? This does seem like the incentive that will work. If enough people say, hey, I don't know if I can trust what I see. You have to help me out here. Make this better. Would that push the platforms into labeling? Because it seems like the breakdown is at the platform level, right? The platforms are not doing enough to showcase even the data they have, let alone demand more. But it also seems like the users could simply say, hey, the comment section of every photo in the world now is just an argument about whether or not this is AI. Can you help us out? Would that push them into improvement?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Guarantee for any of it. So we're still relying on how humans intercept this information to be able to tell people how much of what they can see is trustworthy. That's still kind of putting the onus on us as people. It's, well, we can give you a mix mash of information and then you decide whether it's reliable or not. And we haven't operated on that way as a society for years. People didn't read newspapers to make their own mind up about stuff. They wanted information and facts. And now they can't get that.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Very small. There's an artist platform right called Cara, which says that for supporting artists that they're not going to allow any AI generated artwork on the site. But they haven't really clearly communicated how they are going to do that. Because saying it is one thing and doing it is another thing entirely. There are a million reasons why we don't have a reliable detection method at the minute. So if I, in complete good faith, pretend to be an artist that's just feeding AI generated images onto that platform, there's very little they can really do about it. So anyone that's making those statements saying, yeah, we're going to stand to merit and we're going to keep AI off of the platform. Ow, they can't. The systems for doing so at the minute are being developed by AI providers, as we've said.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When I say there's mixed incentives here, one of the things that really gets me is that the biggest companies investing in AI are also the biggest distributors of information. They're the people who run the social platforms. So Google obviously has massive investments in AI. They run YouTube. Meta has massive investments in AI to what end unclear, but massive investments in AI. They run Instagram and Facebook and WhatsApp and the rest. Just down the line, you can see, okay, Elon Musk is going to spend tons of money on XAI and he runs Twitter. And this is a big problem, right? If your business, your money, your free cash flow is generated by the time people are spending on your platforms, and then you're plowing those profits back into AI, you can't undercut the thing you're spending in the R&D money on by saying we're going to label it and make it seem bad. Are there any platforms that are doing it that are saying, hey, we're going to...”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like we discussed earlier, where all press images now have to come from one authority that has to verify the identity of everyone taking them, maybe that's a possibility, but we are so far from that point and no one's, to my knowledge, no one's instigated setting something like that up. They're just kind of relying on everyone talking about this in good faith. Again, every conversation I've had with this is we're working on it, it's a slow process, we're going to get there eventually. Oh, it was never designed to do all of this stuff anyway. So it's very blas ⁇ and kind of low effort, really. It's kind of a, we've joined an initiative. What more do you want? Which is incredibly frustrating, but that seems to be the reason that everything is kind of not developing. Because in order to develop any further, in order to actually help us, they would have to pause. They would have to stop. and think about it and they're too busy running out every other like tool and feature that they can think of doing because they have to they have to keep their shareholders happy they have to keep us as consumers happy”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's because it's the same process, right? What we're talking about is a kind of two way street that is on the same road. You've got the people want to identify AI slop, or maybe they don't, but people want to be able to see what is and what isn't AI. But then you've got the more insidious thing if we actually want to be able to tell what is real, but it unfortunately benefits too many people to make that confusing now. But the solution is for both. AI companies, platforms that are profiting off of all of the stuff that they're showing, how effective they're making it so much more efficient for content creators to slap stuff in front of you. now where there's more online than we've ever seen ever because everything is being funneled out. Why would they want to harm that profit stream effectively by having to either slam on the brakes of development until they can figure out how they are going to effectively be able to call out when deepfakes are proving to be a problem, when they're going to be able to, like the methods of being put in front of it, rather than setting up some kind of middle system like a shutter stocks thing?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Photos all the time. Department of Homeland Security, AI generated imagery, up, down, left, right, and center. You can just see AI manipulated photos of real people modified to look like they're crying as they're being arrested instead of what they actually looked like. This is a big deal. This is a war on reality from literally the most powerful government in the history of the world. Are the platforms ready for that at all? Because like here is being faced with the problem, right? This is the stuff you should label. No one should be mad at you for labeling this. And they seem to be doing nothing. Why do you think that is?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's a lot of mixed incentives for these platforms. And it occurs to me as we've been having this conversation, we've been kind of presuming a world in which everyone is a good faith actor and trying to make good experiences for people. And I think a lot of the executives of these companies would love to presume that that is the world in which they operate. And whether or not the label makes people mad and you want to turn it off or whether or not you can trust the videos of significant government overreach and cause a protest that's still operating in a world of good faith. Right next to that is reality, the actual reality in which we live, where lots of people are bad faith actors who are very much incentivized to create misinformation, to create disinformation. And some of those bad faith actors at this moment in time are the United States government. So the White House publishes AI.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Initial responsive AI looks cheap because it's meant to be cheap. That's why it exists. It exists for efficiency and affordability. If you've come across trying to sell me something on that, it's probably not going to make the best first impression unless you make it utterly undetectable. And if you have a big made with AI or assisted with AI level on that, it's no longer undetectable because even if I can't see it, you've now disadmitted that it's there.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's people trying to put a value on creativity itself, right? If I was looking at luxury handbags and I see that they've not paid a creative team, this is a creative company that makes wonderful products. It's supposed to stand on the quality of all of the stuff that it sells you. If I find that you're not involving creative personnel in that to make an ad for me to want to buy your handbag, why would I want to buy it in the first place? And not everyone will have that perspective, but as someone that worked in the creative industry for a long time, you kind of see the work that goes into something, even if it's something that's laughable as a commercial. I love TV commercials because it's annoying as they are and as much as they're trying to get me to buy something, you can see the work that went into it that someone had to write that story, had to get behind the film cameras, had to make the effects and all that kind of stuff. So it feels like if you're taking a shortcut to remove all of that, then you're already cheapening the process yourself. That's what I feel from the conversations I've had with the other creatives. That seems to be the...”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, Google just had one of its best quarters ever. Neil Mohan, the CEO of YouTube, he's been on the show in the past. We will have him on the show again in the future. He announced at the top of the year that the future of YouTube is AI. And they have features that they've announced along the lines of creators can have AI versions of themselves do the sponsored content so that the creators can do whatever that the creators actually want to do. And there's a part of me that completely understands that. Yes, my digital avatar should go make the ad.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Can you stand by this as a standard and you're in SynthOD stuff? And you're clearly using it to soothe concerns that people have despite its ineffectiveness. They don't seem to be progressing any further than just presenting those labels probably because of what happened to Instagram. And now we've just got the situation where meta does seem to be standing on the sidelines going, well, we tried. So let's just see what someone else can do. And maybe we'll adopt it from there. But YouTube doesn't really want to address this slot problem because so much of YouTube content that's showed to new people is now slot. And it's proving to be... Quite profitable for them”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Very similar approach to TikTok actually because weirdly enough, TikTok is involved with this. They use the standard. They're not necessarily a steering member, but they are involved. The similar approach where you will get an AI information label somewhere towards, depending on what format you're viewing on mobile or your TV, your computer, you'll get a little AI information label that you have to click in and ascertain the information that you need from that. Their kind of problem is making sure it's robust enough because this doesn't appear consistently. There are AI videos all over YouTube that don't carry this and there's never a good explanation. Every time I've asked them, it's always just, you know, we're working on it. It's going to get there eventually, whatever. Or they ask for very specific examples and then run in and fix those while I'm like, okay, but if this is falling through the net”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I will give some credit to Instagram and Admissary here in that they are at least trying and thinking about it and publicly thinking about it in a way that none of the other social networks seem to have given any shred of consideration to. TikTok, for example, is nowhere to be found here. They are just going to distribute whatever they distribute without any of these labels. And it doesn't seem like they're part of the standard. I think X is absolutely just fully down the rabbit hole of distributing pure AI misinformation. YouTube seems like the outlier, right? Google runs synth ID. They are in C2PA. They're embedding the information literally at the point of capture and pixel phones. What is YouTube doing?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Gemini Powered AI tools in them to the point where Google now says the camera is there to help people capture memories, not moments in time. This is all a lot. And like I said, we've been talking about it for years here at the Verge. I bring this all up because generative AI is taking what is a photo debate to its absolute limits. It's hard to even agree on how much AI editing makes something an AI-edited photo, or whether any of these features should be considered AI in the first place. And if that's so hard, how can we possibly reach consensus on what's real and what we label as real? Camera makers have all mostly given up here, and now I think we're starting to see the major social media platforms do the same thing. I wanted to talk about this for a second here, because obviously it's an obsession of mine. But also, I think laying it all out makes it obvious how very, very complicated it is, which brings us back to Adam Messeri, Instagram, and the debate over AI labeling.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Let's pause here for a second because I want to lay out some important context before we go any farther. If you're a Verge reader or even listening to the Vergecast, you know that we've been asking a very simple question for over five years now. What is a photo? It sounds simple, but it's actually quite complicated, because after all, when you push the shutter button on a modern smartphone, you are not actually capturing a single moment in time, which is what most people think of a photo as. Modern phones actually take a lot of frames, both before and after the second you push the shutter button and then merge them into a single final photo. That's to do things like even at the shadows and highlights of a photo to capture more texture, to accomplish things like night mode. And over the years, things have gotten even weirder. There was a mini scandal a few years ago where if you tried to pick a photo of the moon with a Samsung phone, the phone actually just generated a picture of the moon super weird. And of course, Google Pixel phones have all kinds of”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“how much AI in something is too much AI. Photoshop and all of Adobe's tools, they do embed these content credentials. All of this metadata will say when AI has been used. But AI is in so many tools and not necessarily in the generative way that we assume it's going to be like, I'm going to click on this, it's going to add something new to an image that was never there before and that's fine. There are very basic editing features that video editors and photographers now use that will have some kind of information embedded into them to say that AI was involved in that process. And now when you've got creators on the other side of that, they might not know that what they are using is AI. We're at the point where, unless you can go through every platform, every kind of editing suite with a fine tooth comb and designate, what do we count as AI? This is a non-starter. Like he's already hit the point of we can't communicate this to people effectively.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, it doesn't. The other kind of amusing thing is Instagram knows this the hard way. Missouri should remember. One of the very first platform implementations they did of reading CTPA was done by Facebook and Instagram a couple of years ago where they were just slapping made with the eye labels onto everything because that's what the metadata told them. The big problem here that we have isn't just communication, which is that that is the biggest part of it. How do you communicate a complex bucket of information to every person it's going to be on your platform and get them only the information that they need? If I'm a creator, it shouldn't have to matter if I was using AI or not, but if I'm a person trying to see if, again, a photo is real, I would greatly benefit from just an easy button or label that verifies authenticity. Finding the balance for that has proven next to impossible because people just get upset about it. But then how do you define”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Understand it and then share what they think is real, and then you're trusting the consumers to trust the people. also seems like a whirlwind of chaos on top of that and you've written about this as well there's the notion that these labels make you mad at people right so that if you Label a piece of content as AI generated the creator gets furious because it makes their work seem less important or less valuable. The audiences yell at the creators. And so there's been a real push to get rid of these labels entirely because they seem to make everyone mad. How does that dynamic work here? Does any of this have a way through?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To make you keep arguing with Adamisary. We've invited Adam on the show. We'll have him on, and maybe we can add this debate with him in person. But for now, you're going to keep arguing with his blog post. He says platforms like Instagram will do good work identifying AI content, but it'll get worse over time as AI gets better. It will be more practical to fingerprint real media than fake media. Labeling is only part of the solution, he says. We need to surface much more context about the accounts sharing content so people can make informed decisions. So he's saying, look, we'll start to sign all the images and everything, but actually you need to trust individual creators. And if you trust the creator, then that will solve the problem. And it seems like you're really skipping over the part where creators are often fooled by AI generated content like all the time. And I don't mean that to say like creators as a class of people. I mean, literally just everyone is fooled by AI content all the time. And so if you're trusting people to understand.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Mozari is just openly saying we're using this thing and it doesn't work. But imagine if it did. Wouldn't that be great? That's deeply unhelpful. It's his way of deeply unhelpfully musing into some system that we'll be able to, I don't know, regain some kind of trust, I guess, while also acknowledging that we're already there.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I would say so. I think we've kind of been waiting for Tech to basically admit this. I see them using stuff like CTPA almost kind of a meritless badge at this point because they're not endeavoring to push it to its utmost potential really. Even if it was never going to be the ultimate solution, it could have been at least some kind of benefit. And we know that they're not doing this because in the same message Missouri is describing it's like, oh, it would be easier if we could just tag real content. That's going to be so much more doable. And if any of that would be good and we'll circle those people. And it's like, my guy, that's what you're doing. CTPA is that. It's not specifically an AI tagging system. It's where is this bin and what is like who took this? Who made this? What has happened to it? So if we're going for authenticity.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was what we all sought. And it's because there was lots of video of that event from multiple angles, and everyone said, Well, we can all see it. And the foundation of that is we can trust that video. And I'm looking at Adam Assary saying, we're going to start with skepticism. We can no longer assume photos or videos are accurate captures of moments that happened. This is the turn. Like, this is the point of the standard. Do you see Masari saying this out loud about Instagram is the end point of this? Is this war just lost?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To read you this quote from Adam Massari, who runs Instagram on New Year's Eve, he just dropped a bomb and he put out a blog post in the form of a 20 carousel Instagram slideshow, which has its own PhD thesis of ideas about how information travels on the internet embedded within it. But he put out a 20-slide slideshow on Instagram. In it, he said, quote, for most of my life, I could safely assume photographs or videos were largely accurate captures of moments that happened. This is clearly no longer the case, and it's going to take us years to adapt. We're going to move from assuming what we see is real by default to starting with skepticism. This is the end point, right? This is you can't trust your eyes. You can no longer trust a photo. You can't trust a video of any event is actually real and reality will start to crumble. And you can just look at events in the United States over the past month. The reaction to ice killing Alex Pretty.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To entice X to get back involved, but that's just not going anywhere. We see it's user-based at the moment, has millions of people using it. That is a portion of the internet that is never going to benefit from this system because it has no interest in adopting it. So you're never going to be able to address that.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're using the standard, and there is a chance that when you upload any kind of image or video to the platform, any metadata that was involved in that is just going to be stripped out regardless. So unless they can all come to an agreement, every platform, literally every platform that we access and use online can come to an agreement that they are going to be scanning for very, very specific details, they're going to be adjusting their upload processes, they're going to be adjusting how they communicate to their users. There needs to be that uniform, total uniform conformity for a system like this to actually make a difference, not even just to work. And we're clearly not even going to see that. One of the conversations I had actually was when I was grilling anti-Parsons, who is head of content credentials at Adobe, which is another, like that's their word for implementing CTPA data. I commented on the fact that the Grock mess that we've had recently, Twitter was a founding member of this. And then when Elon purchased the platform, it disappeared off. And by the sounds of it, they've been trying...”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It generally exposes the biggest flaw that this system has, and every system like it to its credit. So I would always argue, I don't want to defend CTPA because it's doing a bad job. It wasn't ever designed to do it on this scale, right? It wasn't designed to apply to everything. So in this example, yes, platforms need to be adopting it to actually read that metadata, providing they're not the ones ripping it out during the process of actually supposedly scanning for it. But unless this is absolutely everywhere, it's just not going to go. Part of the problem that we're seeing is as much as taking credit saying it's going to be really robust, it's going to be really efficient. You can embed this at any other stage. There are still flaws with how it's being interpreted, even if it is scanned. So that's a big thing. It's not necessarily that platforms aren't picking up the metadata or stripping it out. It's that they have no idea what to do with it when they actually have it. And at the point of uploading any images, there are social media platforms LinkedIn, like Instagram, threads.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just thinking about this in terms of the stuff that is made, the stuff that is distributed, and the stuff that is consumed. It seems like at least at the moment of creation, there is some adoption, right? Adobe is saying, okay, in Photoshop, we're going to let you edit photos and we're going to write the metadata to the images and pass them along. A handful of phone makers Google at least in its phones is saying we're going to write the metadata. We're going to have synth ID. OpenAI is putting the system into Sora2 videos, which you wrote about. On the creation side, there's some amount of, okay, we're going to label this stuff. We're going to add the metadata. The distribution side seems to be where the mess is, right? Nobody's respecting the stuff as it travels across the internet. Talk about that. You wrote about Sora2 videos and they exploded across the internet. This is when it should have not been controversial to put labels everywhere saying this is AI generated content. And yet it didn't happen. Why didn't that happen anywhere?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We know that Shutstock is a member at the minute, like the system that you're describing would probably be the best approach that we have to making this beneficial, at least for us as people that see things online and want to be able to trust whether protest images or like. middleman, as it were, but that system itself hasn't been established. We do know that Shutterstock is involved. They are part of the CTPA committee, or they have general membership, so they are on board with using the standard, but they're not actively part of the process behind how it's going to be adopted at a further stage. So unless we can also get the other big players involved for stock imagery, then who knows whether this is going to go. But Shutterstock actually implementing it as a middleman system would be probably most beneficial way to go.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Are other sources of trust in the photography ecosystem? The big photo agencies require the photographers who work there to sign contracts that say they won't alter images, they won't edit images in ways that fiddle with reality. Those photographers could use the cameras that don't have the system, upload their photos to, I don't know, Getty or AFP or Shutterstock. And then those companies could embed the metadata and say you can trust us. Are any of them participating in that way?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A lot of them have joined. They've released new camera models that have got the system embedded. The problem that they're having now is in order for this to work, you don't just have to do it on your new cameras because every photographer in the world worth SL isn't going to go out every year and buy a brand new camera because of this technology. It would be inherently useful, but that's just not going to happen. So backdating existing cameras are where the problem is going to be. We've spoken to a lot of different companies, as you said, like Sony has been involved with this LICA, all of them. Nikon, The only company willing to speak to us about it was LICA and even they were very vague on how internally this is progressing. They just keep saying that it's part of the solution, it's part of the step that they're going to be taking. But these cameras aren't being backdated at the minute. If you have an established model, it's 50-50 as to whether it's even possible to update it with the ability to log these metadata credentials in from that point.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I want to come back to how specifically it doesn't work in one second. Let me just stay focused on the rest of the players on the sort of content creation side of the ecosystem. There's Apple, there's Google, which uses it in the Pixel phones. It's not an Android proper, right? So if you have a Samsung phone, you don't get C2PA when you take a picture of the Samsung phone. What about the other cameramakers? Do Nikon and Sony and Fuji? Are they all using the system?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And OpenAR now in, which is that they keep lording this as the solution and it doesn't fucking work. I think Apple needs to be able to stand on his laurels about something. Nothing is going to offer them that at the”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Money making side of things never really comes into the conversation. It's always that people are very quick to assure me that things are progressing. There's never any kind of conversation about incentive to motivate other people to do so. So yeah, Apple doesn't sound to really gain anything financially from this other than maybe the reassurance that people know that if they're taking a picture with their iPhone, it could help to contribute to some sense of establishing what is still real and what isn't. But then that's a whole other kind of worms because if iPhones is doing it, then all the platforms that we see those pictures also have to be doing it. Otherwise, I'm just kind of verifying that this is real to my own eyes as me, the person that uses my iPhone. I think it's just Apple may be aware that all the solutions that we currently have available are inherently flawed. So throwing your lot in as one of the biggest names in this industry and one that could arguably do the most difference, you're kind of almost exacerbating the situation that Google”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's so interesting to me. You know, I love a standards war, and we've covered many standards wars in the politics of tech standards are usually ferocious, and they're usually ferocious because whoever controls the standard generally stands to make the most money or whoever can drive the standard in an extended standard can make a lot of money. Apple has played that game maybe better than anybody, right? They have driven a lot of the USB standard. They were behind USB-C. They drove a lot of Bluetooth standard. extended that standard for AirPods. I can't see how you make money with C2PA. And it seems like Apple is just letting everyone else figure it out. And then they will turn it on. And yet it feels like the responsibility to be the most important camera maker in the world is to drive the standards so people trust the images and videos that come off the cameras. Does that dynamic come out anywhere in your reporting or your conversations?”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They haven't officially or on record. I have sources that say apparently they were involved in conversations to at least join, but nothing public facing at the minute. There has been no confirmation that they are actually joining the CIA initiative or even kind of adopting Google's synth ID technology. They're kind of very carefully skirting on the sidelines. For some reason, it's a little bit unclear as to whether they're kind of letting their caution about AI generally stem into this at this point because as far as I'm concerned, there is not going to be a one-true solution, so I don't really know what Apple is waiting for and they could be making a difference, but no, they haven't been making any kind of declarations about what we should be using to label AI.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of the most important pieces of the puzzle here is labeling the content at capture. We've all seen cell phone videos of protests and government actions and horrific government actions. And I think Google has C2PA in the pixel line of phones. So video that comes off a pixel phone or photos that come off a pixel phone have some embedded metadata that says it's real. Apple notably doesn't. Have they made any mention of C2PA or any of these other standards that would authenticate the photos or videos coming off an iPhone? That seems like an important player in this entire ecosystem.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There isn't kind of any confirmation I can find where it's got something like, I don't know, Sam Altman's saying. We have found this flaw in CTPA and therefore we're helping to address any kind of falls and pitfalls it may have. It's always just anytime I see it mentioned, it's whenever a new AI feature has been rolled out and there's a convenient little disclaimer slapped on the bottom kind of a yay, we did it, look, it's fine, new AI thing, but we have this totally cool system that we use that's supposed to make everything better. They don't actively say what they're doing to improve the situation, just that they're using it and just that they're encouraging everyone else to be using it too.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A coalition, the most prominent name you'll see is Adobe because they're the one that shout about it the most. They've kind of like one of the founding members of the content authenticity initiative, which helped to develop the standard. But you've got big names that are part of the steering committee behind it, which are supposed to be the groups involved with helping other people to adopt it, which is the important thing, because otherwise it doesn't work. In part of this process, if you're not using it, a CTPA falls over. OpenAI is part of that. Microsoft, Qualcomm, Google, all of these huge names are all involved with that and are supposedly helping to. They're very careful not to say develop it, but to promote its adoption and to encourage other people. In regards to who's actually working on it.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Difficult to explain in a shortened context, but they do operate on different levels, which means technically they could work together. A lot of these systems can work together. You've got inference-based systems as well, which is what they will look at an image or a video or a piece of music, and they will pick up telltale signs that apparently it may have been manipulated by AI, and they will give you a rating. They can never really say yes or no, but they will give you a likelihood rating. None of it will stand on its own to be like a one true solution. They're not necessarily competing to be the one that everyone uses. And that's almost kind of the mess that CTPA is now in. It's been lauded as been grandstanded as say, this will save us, whereas it was never designed to do that. And it certainly isn't equipped to.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well it's a little bit of a confusing landscape because I think one of the few kind of like textures that I would say there shouldn't actively be competition. And from what I've seen from what I've spoken to with all these different providers, there isn't competition between them so much as they're all working towards the same goal. Google Synth ID is similar. It's technically a watermarking system more so than a metadata system.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They argue that it's quite tamp proof, but it's a little bit of an action to speak louder than words kind of situation, unfortunately, because while they say it's tamper-proof, this thing is supposed to be able to resist being screenshot, for example, by the way. But then OpenEI, who is actually one of the steering community members behind this standard, openly says it's incredibly easy to strip to the point that online platforms might actually do that accidentally. So the theory is there's plenty behind it to make a robust, to make it hard to remove, but in practice that just isn't the case. It can be removed maliciously or not.”
2026-02-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Reality is losing the deepfake war · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT