YouSaid · the spoken record

Nicole LaPointe Jameson

lines on the record: 76
first: 2021-02-23
most recent: 2021-02-23
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Of the people very insular. Some developers are really pushing to make sure the game is broader. And I think even if you take first-person shooters versus more like magic-based or moba games, right, especially in North America, developers that focus on games with guns and terrorists versus counterterrorists have a bigger lift to make sure the game seems approachable, accessible, and honestly kid-friendly to keep bringing in viewers and perpetuate the title. It's a hard challenge. I don't think anyone's done it perfectly yet. I think there's a lot of room to grow. Traditional sports are definitely ahead of esports here, but people are getting smarter as there is a big rift, right? The average viewer is sixteen to thirty, but the average capital allocator or the average CEO or a director at these companies that are running this are over 50.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, because that's an event. It's a spectacle. And that's a lot of, and actually going back to the developer's question, that's where, that's actually one of the metrics we look at when we evaluate developers to work with is who makes their broadcast, their education, and their social materials accessible to a broader audience because increasing viewership, it isn't a one-to-one relationship between game sales and esports viewers. And even esports viewers by titles are not the same. Our League of Legends viewers are nothing like our counter-strike viewers, both in geography, income level, age, gender split, etc. And so finding both broadcast partners, content creators, and how we position ourselves to different audiences as a brand and make the language, the education, however we present ourselves accessible is really important because some developers don't care as much. It's for the people.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yep, there we go. And so it was stuck without forceful disruption. So I was glad to be at one of the catalysts of forceful disruption in the space.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“True optics of who is a gamer and who's in the gaming space. And then, of course, you took that teams historically, it's a compoundment of the funding and the infrastructure and the culture. If you had teams that were run by previous players, they don't know better. They don't come from out of space, out of the space and go, oh, you know what? Google runs things this way. Let's take these components and put this in our playbook and try this. And oh, look, Tableau is doing this. Let's try this. It was very self-perpetual feedback loop of how things should be, not how should things ought to be. Oh, that wasn't a sentence, but you get what I'm going for here.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Down those barriers to reasonable things that should be accommodated. The second is, of course, the culture. I won't shy away the fact that me coming in as CEO was so big due to just my identity is disappointing. It's 2021, to be honest, but not surprising, especially if you look at the North American esports player, right? The biggest problem we face is breaking down the perception of gamers are alt-right dunes in a basement. It's not. Most people play games. And if you include mobile gaming, more people play games than not, but that education, the accessibility, the optics of people like not that example is not well articulated. And so that also breeds a negative culture by people who come in and say, well, like attracts like. And so we've pushed a lot there to ensure we bring in many different people from many different backgrounds to support and bring.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's rough. I think there are three big reasons why esports can be a little backwards considering how much of an advantage they should have by how the games actually are played. The first disease was so like five years ago. If you were an esports athlete, you lived in someone's house with all your other teammates and you played for 12 hours a day with not much infrastructure oversight or sometimes not even for pay to make it big. And that by design the infrastructure of underfunded esports where you don't have salary, you don't have benefits. Parents with kids are not going to do that job, right? Women aren't going to live with men in a house forever, not going to do that job. People with committed relationships are probably not going to do that job. People with disabilities probably not going to do that job. The job wasn't accessible because the infrastructure wasn't there to support it. And so we've actually spent a lot of energy making sure we did a lot of provisions. Like all of our athletes are full-time employees with health benefits and 401k match, which again hopefully doesn't sound insightful to people on the call, but was a first for many people in the esports industry to make sure we could bring in the best of whatever talent and bring”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Support em and that exercise I was grateful that I had team members and investors and partners that got on board and supported it, but it was very iconoclastic to what had been done and really pushed the envelope on a lot of different fronts.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Let's sift through empirically, look at key metrics that we know align in game and build a roster from there. And so we took a very empirical building approach, which maybe doesn't sound insightful for sports listeners, but is very different from esports where most of the talent pool is known, especially in North America. We double down when we actually found out from an empirically built roster that roster also included both women and men. So we started one of the first mixed gender rosters in a competitive esports scene in the world. And that shook a lot of, rattled a lot of cages and surprised a lot of people because it wasn't a marketing play. It wasn't all like this team to do this function for this marketing purpose. It was very much kind of through all the books out the window and said, this is the best team we think that can compete based on our methodology. And here's what they look like and here's who they are. And let's.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We've pushed in some interesting directions at some of the directions where I call it the path of more resistance for longer term rewards. And I'm actually very blessed that I have investors that very much are aligned with the longer-term vision, even when short-term cash is problematic. However, like there are times where we've made big bets on teams like actually entering into a title and doing things a different way. A really good tactical example where I had to really get people on board is we take a step back when building a roster in esports is a lot of data you look at. We recently entered a new title called Valorant and we built a roster exactly opposite of how every other esports team ever in the world has built a roster. They usually say, okay, take a coach who's been in this space for a long time, ask the coach, who do they know that's good and build from there. We said, screw that. Let's look at our data. Let's pull a”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like it will our players authentically engage with the product those are the types of decisions we make beyond what is the money? And that means we say no to things. It means we say yes to strange things and hopefully those are the good decisions to set us up for the longer term. But as we call it internally, there's a little bit of a matrix decision, right, of all the constituents we have to think of because there's quite a lot of frequently opposing voices because we've made decisions that we knew well this might not resonate with the fans, but we know we have to do this. So how do we navigate this situation or up? My shareholders will think I'm crazy because this hasn't been done before and it's a little avant-garde, but this is the decision we have to make here. And so it's not easy, but it's exciting.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Depending on where we are, well, the first is probably financial. We're a startup and every dollar counts. Every dollar relates to how we continue to survive, especially in COVID where while our product became extremely popular, costs also rose and a lot of where we got our money, direct sponsorship allocations, that infrastructure fell away. There were not a lot of people spending on marketing and advertising in a COVID world. And so cost is the first big framework we look at. We also care a lot about the voice of our fans and our community because we are again an entertainment product. So things that we do that will authentically resonate with whoever we're trying to target is critically important. So we think of the fans in the community quite a bit. But then also we're a sports team. And so our humans, our players, our athletes are also the crux of our decision. So depending on the decision, do we bring in a certain partner? Will our fans”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure, that there's the why behind decisions so when we have to as we do have to pivot, change our course, throw something out and go in the complete opposite direction. We have a diligent framework of why we did what we did so we know how to course correct when that has to happen 19 times today.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For better or for worse, is my anyone in my team would tell you, I don't come from a gaming background, I don't even come from an entertainment or sports background. I came from finance and before that data science. And so most of my decisions as cliches, it probably could sound, are very, very data driven. I can't leave the private equity realm mentally. I'm always thinking of downside risk and managing upside potential. And that translates especially in a world where A lot of what we do is unknown. I'm almost ashamed of a lot of things we've had to do that were first in the industry. We were one of the first esports teams to have an HR department. We were one of the first esports teams to help build kids' camps in summer programs, things that would make you laugh in this day and age generally are still very fundamental. And so that comes from a data decision framework around risk reward potential, level of effort and cost, almost like an engineering arm to ensure”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“IP and Tech Platform Changing Ecosystem for twenty one years of its existence. That's a hard skill, and knowing especially because entering an esports title is not cheap, both from labor, from straight dollars, from infrastructure, knowing what titles are sticky, what developers have good relations, it's almost a due diligence process in itself to know what developers are supporting the league in a way that helps brands grow. I think a very interesting today case study is Fortnite, right? Everyone and their mother knows about Fortnite, but why are esports teams pulling away from Fortnite is epic changes the competitive platform so frequently it's hard for us to be proactive. And those feedback loops are important because at some point, if developers really care about the team side and the esports ecosystem, they have to be more collaborative. But again, similar to the whole space, it's developing. It's far and few in between.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, that is probably the biggest either plus to the space or thorn in my side, depending on the day in which developer. The relationship vary from we are deep in the weeds of how does competitive structure look like and we collaborate very tactically together to me getting kicked out of boardrooms being called a rent seeker. There are far and few in between with relations because you're right. They hold a lot of power. And here's some good examples, right? EG used to be the best team in the world for Halo. Halo is not a game that is supported anymore competitively. So unlike basketball, which won't go away, esports titles can go away. And so that's why most people don't really get. They're like, okay, a 21-year-old brand, why is that interesting? Well, that means whoever in all my precedenters were able to navigate a very”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The playbook isn't well established ubiquitously across all of the esports universe. People are fleshing it out and figuring it out and finding interesting sticky trends here. So it's very much an industry in formation still.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like you'll just I wish I had a better and more shiny answer for you, but it definitely resonates. We believe in the team. The team is the crown jewel. We wouldn't have a value proposition to exist without the athletic side, but it's not supported by the magnitude of the revenue with league revenue share like you find in traditional sports today. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe that won't change over time. But today I would be a bad fiduciary to my investors if I said, yeah, let's just go athletics that will work because it won't, unfortunately. But also on the bright side, right, it's unlike traditional sports. The beauty of e-sports, you saw it during COVID. Pro sports leagues stopped. Entertainment in the sports-based stopped, they weren't sure what to do, and we could keep going. We have a very sticky product by being digital and by being more flexible in how we engage, excite, and monetize the fan and consumer. And that's something that while it's”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Great. That's the thesis we believe in. That's why we're here to be competitive. But it wasn't profitable. You can't operate player salaries that look akin to pro athlete salaries are not sustained on esports level sponsorships today. So we really focused on bringing peripheral revenue streams into the business to support what we do, but that also don't deprecate from the core product of who we are and how that's manifested is, of course, the entertainment side of house, but we've also developed deep collegiate and education platforms how to bridge the world of gaming, how to make gaming accessible to different audiences, as well as data, analytics and even fantasy embedding products. So we've been able to pull in things using our core athletics platforms to really help self-sustain the business in the past two years to keep the esports product alive, but keep the lights on at the same time.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So bear with me if you're an esports expert, but taking a step back, esports industry is a bit of a misnomer in that it really encompasses two bimodal, often intersecting but frequently not business models. One of them is traditional sports like, except think of us like a university athletics department. I am University of Michigan, but instead of basketball, football, soccer under one brand, I have Dota, League of Legends, and Counter-Strike. There's that business model which has the same models you would see in traditional sports sponsorship, IP and media rights, direct advertising, et cetera. But esports being a digital platform also bridges entertainment. So you think of content creators, digital influencers, and all of those revenue models and revenue streams, that also exists in esports. So we're a bit of a blended form of both of those. When I had entered EG, we were just the former. We were just the athletics model, which is”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is very much an investment story, and you were installed as the CEO to grow the brand. What was the current business of evil geniuses in esports? And what do you think that business should look like?”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Know we mostly hear the negative side of PE firms and what they do to distress companies, right? It doesn't seem like the game here is we're going to break this thing into parts, extract value, over leverage it. Like there's a negative PE story, private equity story that we hear all the time.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Tiny ten person company in Seattle, Washington that had a twenty one year legacy brand of competing excellently in all different titles. So from a private equity distressed asset turnaround point of view was very exciting because here's a very open sandbox that had built and preserved the best elements of what you look for in a business. Strong IP, fan affinity, and all of the marketing was all set to go. Needed help with business acumen and financial growth. So I was very excited for a board seat jokes on me was told about two weeks before the acquisition or the investment closed, converting to more of an acquisition. I should be rolling in to help kind of spearhead the business and really figure out the space of esports as it had not been well figured out, especially when I had entered two years ago. And so here I am, still here, stuck, I think. But it's been fantastic because”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a fair question to ask because it's a little non-linear. I had worked for the past five years at an investment firm called Peak Six Investments, which does a lot of, I call it a mixture of private equity meets family office, and that they have an investment portfolio that's low touch, but then they have a full-on operational acquisition investment portfolio as well. And I lived in that side of the house looking at a variety of businesses for them, ranging from the dating industry to flood insurance to haptic technology. And at the time that EG and gaming came on our plate, I was looking from an investment point of view at technology ARVR and gaming companies, looked at a lot of esports teams. I don't think it's a badly kept secret that a lot of them don't look great on paper from an investment point of view. And EG was a diamond in the rough. So I focused in particular with distressed asset businesses that were ripe for technology disruption for turnaround. And EG was this.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Evil geniuses is one of North America's oldest esports organization. We are an esports team. Well, we have a bunch of teams across league of legends, counter-strike, fighting games, Valorant, Dota 2, and some streamers and influencers. We'll compete under one banner. And we lean into the evil genius side of our brand identity. We like being punchy, bold, and authentic voices and create a lot of content and programs beyond just our athletics like collegiate and education programs, data and analytics programs, and spicy engaging content to excite and inspire our people.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Inclusive, more people, more people will walk through the door, and some of those people will be more talented than the roster you have. And that leads to winning more tournaments. Now, some notes before we start, we're going to spend a lot of time talking about how to make money in esports, and there are a few basic structures to know. Some leagues like League of Legends Championship series are run by the game publisher, so Riot, which publishes League of Legends, limits the number of teams in the league and charges a fee for a franchise slot in that league. Those slots, one of which Evil Genius has just bought, can cost tens of millions of dollars. In turn, if the league does well and makes money, there's a revenue share with those slot owners. Other leagues are more open. They simply have qualifying tournaments that anyone can join, and it's up to the teams themselves to make money on their own. Hopefully, by winning, which can come with some prize money. In both structures, the larger teams need to figure out a way to make money in other ways. Some have leaned heavily into merch, some have leaned into personalities and streaming on services like Twitch.”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And where she sees growth. Now, evil geniuses is one of the oldest esports organizations around. It's 21 years old, and it had its early success with teams playing Halo. Remember Halo? It's not around anymore. Nicole became CEO of Evil Geniuses in 2019 when the team was at its lowest point, having abandoned some of the largest esports leagues and struggling to grow. Since then, she's expanded the company from eight people to over 150 staffers with offices in Seattle and Los Angeles, four professional teams, a content operation, a growing business and educational tech, and white labeling the products they've developed to run the company. She's a young black woman running a company in games, which is sadly not a very common story. But she sees positivity and inclusion because it can lead to winning. She told me if you're more”
2021-02-23 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT