YouSaid · the spoken record

Nihal Arthanayake

lines on the record: 40
first: 2022-08-29
most recent: 2022-08-29
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“It's a difficult question for me to answer because I'm not in that world anymore, nor do I wish to be. But I think there's definitely, I think you'd have to ask the managing editor of LBC that question. And I think.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't want to sit next to this guy. But as soon as we opened up the conversation, it just flowed. So small talk is good. It's really important. And also as well, the water cooler moment is really important. And while people choose to work from home rather than go work in office environments, there still has to be space for you to have that water cooler moment. And some people will talk that and say that's small talk or it's unnecessary, but actually it's communication. That's what it is. It's feeling seen, feeling heard. And that can be 10 words or that can be two hours. You know, it could be at a bus stop or it can be in a restaurant or it could be away from the speakers in a club. It can be all of those things.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I'm not someone that looks down their nose at small talk. It's really important. It's just a human connection. But again, Nushin, it just comes from curiosity. You just start a conversation with someone, as I did on the train recently, and he was probably in his late 70s. He had been widowed eight years. He'd gone to a boarding school. He was after decades going to meet up with his former classmates. He played cricket for his school. They were going to be wearing certain ties, their old school ties. Now, if I just got on the train, put my headphones on, looked down at my phone. I just wouldn't have got to have a conversation with this wonderful man. And he really was. He was really interesting guy. And when I first got on, I thought to myself, okay, is he looking at me like, oh gosh.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Also, then you have to be really honest and say, I'd really like to hear your voice, right? And especially for men to say that. To say, and this is, I think, a really difficult thing because we did a show about male loneliness recently, to actually tell another man that you miss them, right? It's quite, I think it's quite hard for a lot of men to say that. But I'm lucky that I've got one or two friends certainly who I could say, I miss you. And they'll say, I miss you back. And then we'll get in contact and then we'll speak. You know, there's no question that we will do that. It's actually maybe three or four people that I could do that too. Yeah. You know, and I feel blessed at my age, a middle-aged man that I've still got that because women have less friends than men in our 20s. But by the time men get to their 50s, our social groups shrink.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I know it just kind of makes it. I know it's weird because it makes you kind of sound a bit weird and a bit old school and a bit old-fashioned and kind of like, why would you do that when you could do a WhatsApp voice note? Because you just don't know where it flows. I feel as though we need to fight back. Against WhatsApp groups say, Look, you know what I mean? Like, if someone comes into your mind, they've come into your mind for a reason, so call them, call them. What's the worst thing that can happen? The worst thing that can happen is they'll just kind of go, well, why are you calling me? At which point you know that they're probably not really great friends?”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like I've known you for 25 years or 30 years. There are two guys, one called Andy, one called Terry, who without question I'll speak to almost every other day. And in the case of Andy, we always sign off by telling each other we love each other, right? So I am definitely of the case of where I'm kind of slightly sick of WhatsApp groups, if I'm honest. And I think you're fooling yourself if you think you're connected to someone because you're in a WhatsApp group, you're not. You're really not. It's the most superficial form of communication just because you've shared a gif or you've had a bit of a laugh. There's nothing of real depth to it. And if anything, I think you end up becoming more and more distant from each other because what you're doing is fooling yourself that you're connected when actually you're not really. So that's what I do. I call people up and I speak to them.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I Well, it's overwhelmingly, it's so lovely to hear from you. You just get a catch up, and then you tell them, you say, look, this is how I do things now. Like I'm not going to schedule in a Zoom with you.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“As a performative act, but actually to call up my mum and listen to what it is she's saying to me, even when she's talking about next door's cat or the fact that the neighbor next door has done this and done that, to actively listen to her rather than just think, well, I've done my good deed just simply by calling her. You know, I have to think differently about that. And all, you know, writing this book has made me think about all of those things. Calling my brother more who I love dearly, but just calling him rather than calling him where it's something to do with mum. Also, call in my mates when their name comes into my mind. I've started to do that over the last few months. So if their face or their name comes into my mind, I call them”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think conversations, difficult conversations where emotion is involved, where a lot of emotion or emotional baggage is involved are always going to be the most difficult ones to have. But, you know, I am a very open book on the radio and actually an open book pretty much in life. With all conversations you are learning to navigate all the time, who that person is, who they need you to be, who you need to be. And that's always To and fro, right? A push and pull. And that's fascinating to me. I think I've learned through this book to not call up my mum.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Life of Brian of Conversations, right? He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy. And that's kind of how I feel about this, that this is very much. A guide for me as it is for anyone that decides to buy it.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Make sure that both people are getting out of it what they should be getting out of it. And like I said, since writing Let's Talk, it's really made me think about on occasion how poor I have been at communicating and certainly at listening. You know, we're 17 years in to our marriage and we've got two teenage children and you still have to work at that. You know, you definitely can't take that for granted that you'll always be there and that you can just end up being two people who watch each other falling asleep every night on the sofa. And that's it. That's life. And that's just can't be life for my wife and I if other people like that and fair play. But that definitely can't be life for us. So there's a very important question to ask really about how good are you at this at home. And look, this book has never ever designed to say, I've got all the answers, I'm the best at this, you follow me like some kind of.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, without question. Yeah, without question, there has been. And that's something that I especially have to work on, communication within a relationship and understanding and space, but also conversation as a father and also kind of taking a chance to step back. I mean, often the problem in relationships is that it's the emotion involved that stops the conversation from being effective because you're not listening to understand. You're listening simply to reply. So in that respect, if you've got two people doing that, that's a recipe for conversational disaster. So you have to take a step back in a marriage.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's a very relevant question because she'd say, I'm terrible at it, right? Like I'm terrible at it. And that's, again, one of the aspects of writing this book is realizing how terrible I have been at it at home. And that's largely, I think, for a number of reasons, just relationship, a job that involves a lot of talking often means that I'm talked out by the time I get home, which is completely unfair to her because she hasn't had that chance.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Are you listening to understand or are you listening to reply? Now, as soon as she said that to me, I was like, well, that is the absolute. Synthesis of this book. Are you listening to understand right? Are you listening because you're genuinely curious and interested in what that person is saying? Or are you listening simply as an invitation, as a queue to get your side across, to get your opinion? Before you've even finished your sentence, I'm already thinking, right, what can I say? How can I reply? How can I talk? Now, in order for you to be a great conversationalist, focus on the former I'm listening to understand and less on the latter that you're listening to reply.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Most people would say, right? And then they will think, they've thought a little bit more about this, about verbal cues. So there's like non-verbal and verbal, and then it's non-verbal, which is how I'm moving my hands, et cetera. But the Chinese also ask you to listen with your mind, right? To really be present and to listen with your heart, which is empathy, emotion, sympathy. And if you had those four elements together, suddenly you're actively listening. And you have to ask yourself this question. Okay. And this is a great way of refining the art of conversation in your life. And this is something that my 12-year-old daughter said to me. She had been at school and every week they put up a little phrase or pose a question for the kids to think about. And one week, Noshe, Asked this question”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, don't call it oxycontin, no. Oxytocin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually make that point in the book that oxytocin shouldn't be mistaken for oxycogotin, which was the terrible drug. It brought misery to so many Americans' lives. Going back to Chief Superintendent John Sutherland, he talks about the Chinese symbol for listening in my book. And it's something that he employed as a crisis negotiator. And the Chinese see listening, not as we do. So we see listening really as your...”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“At each other, talk to each other, find out about each other because you're not connected to the world in the way that you think you are. What you are is connected to apps that are largely designed to be addictive. And what you're doing is having your eyeballs monetized. That's what you're doing. So let's not muck about with this. These are business models.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it's not coincidental that neither Bill Gates nor Steve Jobs allowed their children to have folks. Certainly, we should be conscious of them not becoming the default way we choose to communicate deeply with each other. That's what concerns me. Don't see that as a replacement. And certainly when you're out with a friend, a loved one, a family member, don't put this thing on the table next to you. Don't do that. Focus, be in the moment. I saw two guys today sitting opposite each other at a small table in a Greg's of all places. And they were just staring at, they were less than a foot and a half away from each other. And they were staring at their phones. Don't do that”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Apparently, now the viral videos of his that go further, wider are the ones where he looks down the barrel of the camera and delivers a monologue as a form of connection. I worry that people mistake tweeting each other as a conversation. That's the thing. But also as well, you know, constantly trying to get sound bites to kind of get profile and to monetize division. I just find really very sad. I mean, in my book, we talk about Dr. Johnson and the coffee houses of the 18th century, where you were encouraged to disagree with people, but you were also, as it was fashion of the age, to be polite in doing so. And people complain about things. And then, as you point out, they love watching them. But them loving watching them for like 30 second dopamine hit of watching someone get embarrassed isn't because they don't like having conversations.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Someone told me the other day that James O'Brien's videos used to be the viral ones where he used to just dismantle some caller, right? Who was chatting nonsense and didn't have the same. Amount of facts at their disposal. Well, they did have the same amount of facts. They just decided not to ignore them, whereas James O'Brien didn't ignore them.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I get no real joy from interviewing politicians. I also feel like I really don't do my audience much of a service either. You know, I wish that there was politicians that were a little bit more old school in the sense that, yeah, okay, let's have a conversation about this rather than the constant thing of I'm trying to avoid you tripping me up. I'm trying to trip you up. I'm going to focus on numbers, specifics to try and make you look stupid. I'm going to stick to a party line and repeat it ad nauseum. It all feels rather reductive to me.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Jeremy Paxman asking Michael Howard the same question 13 times isn't informative, it's performative. And for some reason back then, we all thought that that was good journalism, but actually it isn't great journalism, is it? You know, it's still a conversation, weirdly enough. It may not be working in the same way that you and I would think of a conversation, but it is still a dialogue of sorts. Actually, it might be a more into an interrogation. Yeah, I did a lot of that, and I had to learn with the help of a really good producer actually called Bill Mostin. He was constantly telling me to calm it down. Dial it down. You'll get more from them if you just give them space. But also, I've got to say, Nashine, ultimately,”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I've had to learn that just by thinking you're some kind of GCSC Jeremy Paxman. Is not going to work right. And actually being Jeremy Paxman, that style John Humphries, Jeremy Paxman, doesn't work. Not effective, and I think audiences have moved on. I mean, you have to look at how poor Piers Morgan's TV viewings are to know that actually people want more light than noise. But what happened was certainly in the first few years of being on BBC Asia Network, actually for quite a lot of time. Was like this verbal pugilist. So whenever anyone kind of went at it, we'll go at it. I mean, I still had this kind of hip-hop mentality. Like I was battle-wrapping you and you've got lyrics. I've got lyrics. Let's go. And it was just really performative. It wasn't informative.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I also interviewed Tommy Robinson on the BBC Asian Network, right? So we were doing these things week in, week out, you know, and it was full on.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I remember calling them up and saying, look, I made a mistake. And if you haven't made a mistake ever in your life, then fair enough. Good for you. But I did. And I wanted to, against the advice of the BBC actually Wow, so that's why, you know, when I get to five live, there is no such thing as a controversial conversation for me on Five Live. You know, Brexit and all that stuff. I'm like, dude, once you have a conversation about 1984, right and what happened after that, you can have a conversation about anything. National radio. You know, I interviewed General Bra who. Ordered the attack on the Golden Temple in Aritsar. And he is one of the most In vast sections of the Sikh community, one of the most universally loathed human beings could be.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of Hindu temple in Indiana Ayodhya, and then the destruction of the mosque that was placed upon it, Narendra Modi's alleged, or certainly charge of complicity or not doing enough to stop what happened afterwards in the Gujarat and the programs that took place then. So you're getting into this world that is so fraught with potential pitfalls, Nachine, as you well know, that you have to listen. You have to listen. Otherwise, you'll mess up. And I did mess up once, you know, I got death threats from various members of the Sikh community that came on top really, really quickly. And I remember when that happened over a conversation I had on radio. I actually called up the Seek TV channel that was discussing me. The day that a broadsheet newspaper essentially accused me of insulting Sikhism, which I hadn't done”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Radio One didn't turn me into a conversation list. The BBC Asia Network did. And the reason being partly is because I really had to listen. Because when you walk into that world of debate on the BBC Asian network, it's unlike any other debate show on British radio. You're dealing with the friction and tension that exists between Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists. You're then dealing with the caste system and the frictions that deal within that. Then you're dealing with things such as partition, the massacre that took place of Sikhs in 1984, the destruction.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so I wanted to, and then Matthew Syad, who's just fantastic. Yeah, it was just a great range of people that I'd come across in my life that I thought, you're a professional conversationalist. You may not describe yourself as such, but you are a conversationalist. And that's what I wanted.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The art of conversation in business and leadership. So it wasn't just about kind of how we should use conversation in personal relationships. It was also Nashin about business leadership because I think you and I throughout our careers have come across people who are very good leaders and very good managers and ones who are very bad and not very good. Now they are maybe I should use the words effective and less effective.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But I had come across him because he was chair of the South Bank Centre in London and I had been a trustee. And just watching him operate, but also he was former global chairman of Mastercard, which meant that he got the best table at the Brits and he would invite my wife and I to the Brits. And I would kind of see Stormzy and Stormsy would say hello and I'd say, look, you know, can you come and say hello to Rick, my friend Rick? And the way Rick managed to make everybody feel at ease, whether it was Ed Sheeran or Stormzy or any number of people that came over to the table, but also the way he chaired board meetings was just so inspirational and so interesting. And I found out something I didn't know about him that actually he had gone and studied this in a professional context.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, and she's open. And look, alongside people that are very well known, like Professor Tanya Byron, And Loren Kelly, there was Rick Haythornethwaite, who people outside of the FTSE 100 business circles probably haven't heard of.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“multi-award-winning filmmaker who made a documentary which involved her spending a lot of time with American white supremacists. Then you're looking further afield and Lorraine Kelly was interested because I think that of all the daytime TV presenters who are involved in this kind of mid-morning chat show type thing or breakfast chat show type thing She's the most conversational She's the one that you genuinely feel like they're listening. I don't think you could probably say that of Piers Morgan”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's pretty diverse, isn't it? Well, I interviewed the former president of Ireland, Mary McAleese, and Know she was involved in the Northern Ireland peace process. You think to yourself, okay, that's a really difficult conversation to have. And having read her book, I was, of course, made aware that there were people who had tried to kill members of her family. How do you sit around the table with people like that? And then also speaking to former chief superintendent John Sutherland, who was a crisis hostage negotiator for the Metropolitan Police. How do you approach a conversation like that with someone is either going to do harm to themselves or others or both, then you speak to Diyar Khan.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the more of these that came in, the more I thought, well, if people are making a point of telling me that, that means they're not hearing that. Through broadcasters, yeah, elsewhere, they're just not hearing that, which then made me think, okay, well, maybe I should look into this. And then kind of be an evangelist for conversation as an art form. And now we can all be better at it, me included, much better at it”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The reason that I, one of the reasons I wrote this book was because when I came to Five Live, and Nashen, you'll know that I was doing BBC Asian Network before and I'm Radio One before that, you know, on the BBC Asian Network, I just did what I did. We didn't have a big enough team. So you ended up doing long interviews, not because you saw that podcasts would be a thing of the future and that actually people would be really interested in long interviews. You just didn't have the staff to be doing two guests or three guests or four guests in an hour. You get one guest. Started to get comments from their audience saying, I've really enjoyed that interview. You were actually listening. It was more like a conversation.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And one mentioned that his brother had recently died. And the other man just carried on talking about himself. He completely missed this really quite important part of this person's life. So effective conversations really are about effective and active listening. That's what they're about. And when I listen, no, sorry, go on.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A conversation between myself and George Ezra, the singer yesterday on my radio show, did he get what he wanted out of it? And I think quite often with people that are being interviewed, what they want is an engaged interviewer who asks interesting questions and then follows those questions up by having listened to the answers, right? rather than having a list of 10 questions that they will stick to no matter what. And this is quite interesting because in the book I interviewed Johan Hari, who's written many books and one of his brilliant books is called Stolen Focus, all about our diminishing attention span. And he cites an example where he, Noshin, was in a cafe in New England. And he overheard two men who were on a first date and had never met before having a conversation.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the important thing for me is to not go into a conversation expecting certain outcomes. It's just to allow myself to be led by the person that I'm having a conversation with. And then they may well ask questions of me as well. So you're playing kind of conversational tennis. But it's interesting the words good and bad. I use these words when interviewing Professor Elizabeth Stoko for the book. And she said, well, from an academic point of view, we prefer the word effective or less effective or ineffective. So we don't put a kind of moral judgment on it, a value judgment on it. We look at it and say, okay, did both parties get out of it what they wanted to?”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All about the kind of A listers that end up sitting in front of me, whether it's the Matthew McConaughey's or the Sibylly Connollys or Sally Field or Chrissy Hind. It's also about people who call in because we've decided to have a conversation about leaving the nest, for instance, or a conversation about motherhood and how difficult motherhood could be. And people call in and they tell you the most incredible stories. So my curiosity comes from curiosity. And actually at the basis of pretty much all conversation has to be a curiosity. And that is the kind of antithesis of a narcissistic age which encourages us all to be constantly promoting ourselves on social media rather than asking about others.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, what drives my curiosity on this subject is curiosity. I'm curious about everything and everyone, really. And that goes back to, I guess, my mum and my mum being someone who would always stop and have conversations with everybody. She was a nurse in the NHS for over 30 years. And you couldn't walk through Harlow Town Centre on a Saturday afternoon without someone coming up to her and reminding her of their ailments and saying how much better they were now than when they last saw her, when they were in a much more vulnerable state. And she always stopped and spoke to them, sometimes for way too long as far as we were concerned as kids. But it did, I guess, Viral Osmosis teach me about the importance of listening and the importance of understanding that everybody has a story. And that's something I very much brought into my broadcasting career because it's not.”
2022-08-29 · Intelligence Squared · Let’s Talk: How to Have Better Conversations, with Nihal Arthanayake · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT