YouSaid · the spoken record

Paris Lees

lines on the record: 47
first: 2018-02-09
most recent: 2018-02-09
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I think I'm in this broadcast because she wants to hear my voice. But what I'm saying is the whole reason we're having this debate now is because people like me are saying you guys are getting it wrong and we're changing the narrative. And the things that you want to talk about are wrong. And the only reason that you're talking about this now, the only reason that you're talking about kids, the only reason that you're talking about suicide, and this is a thing in the news, is because we're saying this is the priority. And actually, it's not some ridiculous caricature of Jermaine Greer saying it's men dressing up as women. We're saying that's wrong. So I'm explicitly trying to change the median narrative, you know, and you're pushing the median narrative on me. So I hope that makes sense.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The fact that no offense, and I really don't mean this in a rude way. At all, but people like you have had the voice. For 40, 50, 60. That's true on rage and all sorts of things. So when I was growing up, I didn't get the support that I needed because journalists completely failed to inform my parents of the facts around this issue. And, you know, you've never met. So the reason why...”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, but that's what the debate is. Well, you say that, but the point, what I would say to you, and I would like you to think about this, actually,”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Do you not see it's about the focus though, Nick? We're talking about other people's imagined fears. We're not actually talking about.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm arguing that every school should argue that. No, let me finish. I'm arguing that every school should have anti-bullying policy that explicitly protects children from being bullied because of their gender. That's what I'm pushing for.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm not going to change the law. You aren't taking political positions. This is what I'm saying. You're just assuming that I'm here pushing.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm trying to get you back off it. But I feel like you're interrogating me. Why should I be here to be interrogated? Because I'm not a politician that's here to defend something. I'm literally just saying that trans people should be treated with respect. And I feel like you're grilling me.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But that's no excuse for bigotry, is it? And actually, you know, I co-founded All About Trans, and we've met over 400 media professionals in the past five years. So I do go around and we create a safe space because many people have never knownly even had a conversation with a trans person before. I'm assuming I could be wrong, that you probably don't have a trans person in your phone book, Nick. I don't. And this is the reality. So I'm very happy, you know, I spent my whole life trying to explain why I should be treated with dignity and not treated like shit. But I think ultimately I'm just so enthused and excited by the fact that young people get this and ultimately a lot of the people that we've been hearing from that have got issues and objections with this are in their 70s and their 80s and not to put too fine a point on it you can't win an argument with the young so I really look forward to you know younger people are so much more accepting and of diversity and thank God”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But we had that debate and the debate was one. So it moves on. And we've had the debate. We're either going to love and accept trans people for who they say they are or we're not. And I think that ultimately in a civilized society, we'll have to come down on the side of justice because you can't stop me from being me. This is who I am.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you're never going to convince some people, are you? But the thing is, we're not having a sensible debate, are we, Nick? Because you've got people like Jermaine Greer saying, just because you put on a dress and cut your dick off doesn't make you a fucking woman. This is not a respect. Transgender activity.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is not my campaign. I think it's misguided, frankly. I do see why people want to do it. And I think that now that we've gone on this path, I think we do need to get what we're asking for to make the process a bit more streamlined and a bit more dignified. But ultimately, I'm more concerned about children, you know, and I'm more concerned about the fact that these kids, and again, we're not talking about this because we're talking about other people's imagined fears. But what we do know is that kids are being shot. They are getting death threats. They are being rejected by their families. We need an urgent public debate on this. These kids are highly vulnerable. The studies in this country back at what study and study around the world has told us that these kids are highly vulnerable. And that's what we should be talking about because that's a fact. These kids are vulnerable and they're sitting there in this country in 2018 feeling that they don't want to live. And I know what that feels like because I've been there. Why aren't we talking about that?”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think they're abhorrent, and I think I would ask someone who wants. I think they're quite rude, and I think most right-minded people would be absolutely horrified at somebody asking a question like that. And I think in decades to come, people will be horrified that trans women would say, you know, should we really allow trans women to use female toilets? I think people would be really shocked by it.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm not raising. I'm quoting. You're repeating it. I haven't swallowed it. What you have to do is now I'm sorry, Nick. If I were to say to you, oh, should black people be allowed to be Uber drivers? Because some of them, there's a fear that some of them are rapists. And I'm just repeating what somebody said. Would you think that that was a legitimate question? No, this is a serious question, no. You've made your point very fast. If I said to you, should gay people really be allowed to teach, do you think that's a legitimate question?”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so, you know, I don't want anybody to be in danger, but there isn't any evidence that this is happening. So if people are going to try to seek to justify discrimination against people like me on zero evidence, I am going to get upset about that.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What do you think it can be achieved? I think we should focus on the fact really because the thing is we saw this in the 80s, didn't we, with people saying, you know, or if we let gay people into schools, they might abuse people and, you know, well, some of them, there are some wrongdoings that will take advantage of it. And I think it's this bogeyman idea, isn't it? You know, this big, bad thing that's going to happen. And there wasn't any evidence for that. And that's why I'm so angry that you're saying, you know, this could happen. Actually, Nick, if you go and look at the countries, I think Argentina, Denmark, Ireland that have had this very sensible approach to self-identification for a few years now. So there are millions of people living in countries that have this. And there is no evidence that this has caused any problems whatsoever. So do you research? Because at the moment, what you're saying is, I'm not saying, I'm asking questions. You are imposing the question. And you're saying, well, what if this happened? And what if that happened? And what if a fox gets in with the pigeons? And it's like, well, there's no evidence that that has happened, or it will have.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, there's two things going on here, isn't there? Because, like, my friend Natalie McDermott, who runs all about trans said, she was quite new to all of this, but she saw a trans woman being murdered and she was horrified at the way that the press covered it. So that's how she got in contact with us. She said, you know, I didn't know anything about this to start off with. And, you know, if somebody said, oh yeah, there's going to be men coming into changing rooms and everything, I'd be thinking, oh God, my daughters, you know, and I'd be a bit worried. And maybe if I wasn't trans, then I think, oh, this might have gone a bit far. So I do think that there are people that...”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm really angry if I'm honest, that you are framing it in this way, Nick. The Gender Recognition Act is about me being able to change my documentation. It doesn't have any effect on anybody else. It doesn't make any difference to you, to your daughter, to anybody. It's about me being able to change my birth certificate and my private documentation. It doesn't have any effect on toilets changing rooms. Prisons is a complicated issue, but would always be done on a case-by-case example. And the idea that somebody could just go walk in somewhere and just go and get away with murder. But, you know, there are women who've sexually assaulted women. What are we going to do? Ban lesbians from changing rooms. You know, people may have fears, but that's not a basis from discriminating against a whole class of people. There are bad people from all different walks of life. But I do think it's really important to focus on the fact when we're talking about this, this legislation affects me.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I don't think that that's That's what the law does. No, there isn't any law over who can use what changing rooms. There isn't. So just to confirm any law, there isn't any law that can prevent me from walking into a change room. It's always been agreed on common sense. So that's inaccurate to say that. The law will not affect that. When it comes to a case-by-case basis, one last question.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Language, in which case I take that Fair enough. In your wider point about, I've been using the women's toilets for the past 10 years without causing anybody any problems whatsoever. And this change of the law isn't going to make any difference because there aren't any laws over who can use witch toilets. I've just used the toilets here and this change to the law isn't going to make any difference. So why are we talking about that? It's not going to make any difference in changing moons.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I wouldn't call it so hang on a minute. Do you know who you're talking about? Like when you meet these kids, they're not blokes who've had a sex exchange. They're transgender girls. And I think that the mums and dads that love these kids and support them would be really offended to hear you talk about it in those terms, Nicks. Oh, understood. I didn't”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is it unpuzzled? You've read about this, you've discussed it. Why would an adult be going into girls' changing moods? No, no, adult.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Prisoner, but what I really object to is trans people being used as a data point, you know, or to make wider ideological debates and say, what if this, what if that?”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, yeah, I know, but I mean, that's got absolutely nothing to do with me and my rights, has it? And I think the important thing to note here is that women kill other women. What are we going to do with those prisoners? And actually female on female inmates, assault in prisons is higher than male or male inmate assaults. So what are we going to do, Nikka? Are we going to ban women from women's prisons? Because the fact is there are lots of dangerous criminals in prisons and some violent women have to be housed in the mail estate. So I think that we have a sensible discussion that prisons are already doing behind the scenes, working on a case-by-case basis and doing an assessment of where is the best place that we can house this.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm not really instinctively on the side of anything really when it comes to these cases. I don't understand why these extreme cases are brought up. And that's meant to be a kind of basis for how we treat trans people more broadly.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Generally, people say, well, I'm not racist. People don't say, well, yeah, I'm racist and I embrace it. So actually, it's for the people from that community. If a black person is saying to someone who's racist that they're racist, the person's probably not going to like that. So I see people probably don't like being called transfer, but they shouldn't be. We get to the harder thing.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I wrote that piece, I think, probably in 2014 when at the time it was more of a sort of Twitter flame war sort of thing. And I do think.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But Nick, why are we talking about this and not? And I say this because the morning that that leaflet was put out saying that they were going to say expectant people rather than expectant mothers, I got a call from woman's hour, you know, because, gosh, we've got to rush me down to broadcasting houses. It's the most pressing, important issue of our time. And yet when a report came out by Stonewall last summer saying that 45% of young trans people in this country have attempted suicide Tumbleweed, nobody wants to talk about it.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh absolutely no. And this is the thing I don't think that people in the sort of 40s and 50s really get how out of step they are with young people's thinking on this. There was a study by the Fawcett Society that I think you showed you like 45-44% of people, young people, feel that gender is fluid. And you speak to most young people and they just accept it because they accept LGBT and they get it. It's about diversity and it's about accepting everybody for who they are. So they're not concerned about all of these kind of political complications that the commentariat seem to be obsessed with at the moment.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think all of that stuff is just noise, really, that we're seeing at the moment. And I think that ultimately in 15 years, this is just going to be a pediatric issue. And a leading specialist in this field are saying that now. You know, we're seeing this diagnosed younger and younger. And a lot of those complications that most people think, you know, transgender is, they think it's about, you know, men becoming women will kind of just be irrelevant. And we'll look back on that in the way that we look at gay people going into sham marriages, for instance.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We already have that. They're just talking about streamlining the process and full disclosure. I don't have a gender recognition certificate because it's never felt relevant for me. I'm very happy to just be perceived as a woman as I go about my daily business and respected as a woman by the people in my life. And frankly, if I wasn't a campaigner, I wouldn't even really think about the fact that I'm trans. But my passport says that I'm female because just as a courtesy for me to go about my business, I took a letter from my doctor saying that this is a real thing in the same way that if you wanted to change your name or if you get married or something. And actually there are lots of instances where people change their identity just on self-declaration. Marriage being one of them.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, absolutely, and that is the law. You know, I mean, and with respect, you know, when people go to gender identity clinics and they are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, how do you think that diagnosis is reached? What do you suppose happens when I go to a doctor I'm telling him I'm a woman, and then the doctor agrees with you if he agrees with you or she agrees with you. So if I hadn't have identified myself as a woman, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have been on any medical process. Would I say, ultimately, it comes from the person”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, that was being quite provocative, but you have to understand the context of people telling me constantly that I'm not a woman. And for those people, it would never be enough because you have the surgery and it's all you can't have children. The various different points of, you know, how we define what a real woman is. As we go through those, then it goes to, oh, you've got a chromosome. But then actually lots of women don't have typical chromosome types. How do you define that?”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But if somebody said you've got a friend coming round, who is she? Would you say it's a transsexual or would you decide she's a woman”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was scared of the stigma and the abuse. I remember seeing a friend in Nottingham City Centre once and somebody was shouting abuse at them in the street. I just remember thinking, I can't do this. I can't stand here and be humiliated in public night. The only way that I can do this is if I think that I can actually blend in and pull it off, you know?”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think this really gets lost in the conversation, doesn't it, really, that because I don't really like to get bogged down in the surgery because I find that really sort of humiliating that the only time that I saw trans people when I was growing up, they were sitting there talking about their genitals on television. It's almost like as a gay person, you're constantly being asked about, do you take it up the ask? It's not really about that. But then also, yes, gender dysphoria is an internationally recognized medical condition. And people do need support where appropriate. But it actually took me about a year and a half, maybe two years to actually get the help that I needed because of discrimination and the ignorance within the health service. Was I scared of what”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was very unjogenous. I used to have my hair in braids, which is of probably cultural appropriation. But at that point, everyone did that in Nottingham. And people said, you know, you look like a tall girl, which delighted me. But I didn't actually get rid of the last of my boys' clothes until it was, I just finished my A-levels and my grandma had just died. And I was waiting to get my results to find out if I could go to Brighton. And it just felt like this is it. Don't waste any more time. You know, get on and live your life. You've wasted enough time already because I knew. I knew for years.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think I've described myself as a bloke at that point. I was a very androgynous young boy. But yeah, it wasn't so much weeks because I went to college when I came out of Borstall, essentially, and I was on a curfew. And I didn't feel safe enough to transition at college. I didn't have the family support.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, you have a lot of time to think in prison, right? And I just laid there in bed at night and just thought, you know, I've got to turn my life around. And I was absolutely terrified that I'd become one of the two-thirds of first-time offenders who end up behind bars again within two years. And that statistic was really ever-present in our minds, you know, thinking, God, is this it? Is this Kasino and you're kind of, you know, teenager and you're in prison, you think this is who I've turned out to be. And I remember when I was at school there was a teacher who always said, you know, you're a funny one because I can see you falling down on either side of the fence, you know, either really screwing things up or doing something really amazing. And I'd love to speak to that teacher now because I kind of did both, didn't I? But it wasn't in the bag at that point.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“She's not going through what I went through because when I was that age, you know, I was taking drugs, I was having sex with strangers for money, I was off the rails and I ended up in prison and I'm sure you'll want to talk about that. But just to bring it back to this child, it's really upset me because it didn't have to be that way for me. You know, I didn't have to go through that unwanted puberty. And it's not to be self-pitying, but it's just very sad because I believe that my parents didn't know how to support a child like me. And as my mum said to me recently, if I'd known then what I know now, I'd have just put you in a dress and let you be happy. And I can't go back and change the past, Nick, but we can now make sure that these kids are not being bullied. And that's absolutely what this is about. It's about loving and accepting these kids for who they say they are.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, yeah, well, I am actually a little bit emotional, if I'm honest. I didn't come here to get emotional, but I was at a workshop in Leeds and there was a young trans girl there with her mum and she's 15, completely supported, you know, loved to bits, accepted for who she says she is, and so happy that this is happening now. And I'm so happy for her and I'm so happy for that family and I'm so pleased that things are changing.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, he made me get all of my favorite toys together. You know, Christmas presents and stuff from over the years and put them in a box. He told me that he'd taken them to charity. I said to him, well, which charities did you take them to, Dad? And he said you'd take them to Oxfam in Nottingham City Centre. So the following weekend my grandmother and I went to Oxfam to see if they got them and they hadn't had a box of things like that handed in so I think they'd just gone in a skipper to some lucky girl who knows but it was it sounds pathetic to you how had your toys taken away from you but it was it was really really upsetting it was horrible”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, I was quite naughty actually, would you believe? And I got sent to live with my dad when I was about nine. And I don't think my mum could cope. There was a lot of things going on, really.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, not promote. Not promoting homosexuality in school. So essentially, this served to effectively silence teachers. They were just terrified of even mentioning LGBT.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm afraid to say so. You know, like many LGBT kids, not only getting bullied at school and oftentimes by teachers. And of course, we had Section 28 still lingering”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I was bullied violently throughout school. One of the most common phrases I remember from my childhood was, why do you talk like a girl? And again I always said to them, well, I don't talk like a girl because I'm a boy and this is how I talk so clearly this is how boys talk. So nobody was kind of forcing me saying that this means that you have to be a girl. But it was always much more profound than that. But one of my phrases that I'm always saying is, you know, better than a kick in the teeth. I've had one, you know, I know what that feels like.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Was one of my earliest memories when I was four sitting on a park bench telling an older girl, you know, I'm a girl and just remembering her just being like, ah, he said something really naughty and thinking, oh God, am I going to be in trouble when I get home? Because I've said something naughty. And I didn't understand there's a very small child why I couldn't be a girl. I couldn't articulate it. I was told, well, you know, you can still have girls sings and you can play with poly pockets and barbies and all the rest of it. You can dress up if you want to. And I did it Halloween and things like that. But it was very much, you are a boy. That's it. You've got boys bits. End of story.”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I find that really interesting, that phrase transgenderism. Like, what is that? What is your understanding of that?”
2018-02-09 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Paris Lees One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source