YouSaid · the spoken record

Peter Geoghegan

lines on the record: 32
first: 2020-08-25
most recent: 2020-08-25
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Societies are fundamentally actually really different. I've lived in both of them and they really are very different. And I think we're not at that level of culture wars here where if Boris Johnson stands up and says black is white, everyone will go, yeah, of course it is. At least there's a lot of people who won't. And there's still, and I think there is actually, in that respect, I do think there's reasons to be cheerful.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was interesting, I thought the Dominican Cummings thing was very interesting, especially when you saw the polling around it. You know, a lot of conservative voters were really unhappy with it. A lot of Leave voters were really unhappy with it. And the government tried to frame it as a leave remain thing, you know, the guardian of Merdi's campaigning remaining newspapers. And I don't think that worked. And in a few months, I don't think it did. And if you look at the polls, it really didn't. And that, I think, is going to be almost unsustainable position, say, in six months' time. After January, I think it's going to be very, very hard to frame everything as a Brexiteer conspiracy, you know, as a Remain conspiracy. No, I do. I would agree. I think there's more reasons to be cheerful if you look at the kind of polling data without constantly comparing America to Britain. I think it's easy to overcompare the two places. It's easy to see too much of a bleed over from one to the other. Even though in my book, I talk a lot about those links. And I think there's definitely in terms of money in politics, a lot going on.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is what's happened, and making that an actual point that's just reiterated over and over again. But it is, I'm not panglossy and I do realize that in the current climate, as long as politicians think they can get away with it, the only way around that is making the public say something, say that this isn't, you know, that this is something we will not tolerate.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when you're able to do that, and there's no political comeback, I think why would you try and fix a system that benefits you? When the rig system benefits you, why would you try and fix it? So that's my gloomy part of that. So I think what there needs so must be is some sort of way in which actual citizens and actual individuals are able, whether it's engaging with tech companies and making whether it's kind of saying putting advertisement from things like Facebook to say, look, unless while you're going to still run political ads that are spreading lies, well, then we're not going to advertise with you. That can be part of the solution. But I also think another part of the solution is taking that to a democratic level as well. It's going right for MPs, for individual MPs who are found guilty of doing things that have become something that isn't just forgotten about and doesn't just move on from it. So you do end up continually going, this is, you know, this is.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was monopoly capitalism. And that's bad for everybody. And they were broken up. And politics was actually really arranged around that. There was actual political candidates who stood on platforms like that. And I think there's a whole, that's a huge thing that I think needs to happen. It needs to be a huge kind of political will to do something on it. So that's all the nice, you know, when I'm king, when I'm kind of like, look, looking around the other way, just as the reporter and the punter, I do find it like it's hard, it's definitely hard for this government to not see at the moment, in particular around reform coming through government. I find that quite difficult to see positive steps. Because what this government is seeing is it can get away with doing things. I've spent the last few months actually reporting a lot on government contracts and how government contracts have basically gone to May to the Conservative Party with no tendering process, you know, really lucrative contracts.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That the idea of giving actual money to political parties and politicians does. So there's a bunch of things like that. I think the internet is a huge thing and I think it's beyond just the scope of one state. I think the power of Silicon Valley and of tech companies to dictate how our politics works and how democracy works is really terrifying in many respects, especially companies like Facebook who show who flirt with immorality to be polite about it. And I think there's a real need for politicians to act collectively on it and to build coalitions. And actually Europe has been very good on this. The European Union has been good on Facebook and just the size of tech tech companies and the role that they play in our democracy. I think that's something that is a nettle that really does need to be grasped. In the book I talk about what happened with the railroad in the late 19th century where you had these barons and you had this kind of basically was a captain.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Resist the temptation to kind of glow in the idea of the first Irish Prime Minister of England. But that would be the full reversal. But there's lots of things I would do quite quickly that aren't hard. I would reform electoral law quite dramatically. It's not hard to do. Other countries do it. They do it. There's models out there. It doesn't have, everything doesn't have to be world beating. It can be world copying. It's not hard to lift laws. So basically, and some of it come from countries that, like actually America, have a proper lobbying register that actually works or all the lobbying is there. But unlike America, put a ceiling on political donations, make it quite low, maybe about £10,000, a 7,500 euros in France. So something like that make party membership tax deductible, which is quite an easy way of putting money into political parties and increasing the number of people in politics without causing the great kind of pearl.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, and so exactly. And so in that vacuum, you get kind of quite far things like what's happening at the moment where you have the Committee on Standards and Public Life is having an investigation, a kind of an inquiry into electoral law and electoral reform, but it's not going to include money in politics or party political donations. So you will think around the edges and come up with small little bits and pieces, but there won't be any substantive change at all. And if anything, actually, it's not hard to see the system getting worse.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I would agree. No, I think if anything were even because I think of the response from Boris Johnson to the Russia report, it's actually really denigrated, I think, the opportunity to even talk about these things because he's basically said, I do not want to hear about it. So if you're a government minister, say you're a government minister who thinks this is a big deal, I actually ended up on the radio a couple of days after Russia reported with Tobias Ellwood, the Conservative, is on the Defence Committee. And he was saying this is concerning, we need to find out more about this. We need to be investigating it. Well, he's basically, you know, I can't imagine that would have gone down particularly well in Downing Street where there are bases and we don't know the only people who are going to say things about this are people who really are like to buy salvage who voted remain and would be seen not as part of a Johnson clan. It's like, well, my political career is not going to go anywhere for the moment anyway. So I can talk about it. But if you were in a position of authority, like a government like a departmental minister, well, then you're not going to engage with it because it'll be disastrous for your career.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, the Rush report is written just by Russia, but you could ask about Chinese influence. You could also ask about the influence of individual donors. You might want non-kas.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, no, I would agree. There is a limit to the power of journalism. What journalism can do is put something out into the public domain, but it needs to stay to act on it. It needs political actors to act on it. And what you saw in the kind of, the closest we got was the kind of Department of Culture, Media and Support Select Committee inquiring to fake news, which actually generates a lot of interesting stuff. But really, that was just a talking shop. It had no official powers. Dominic Cummings numerous times refused to come and give evidence. It didn't matter to Dominic Cummings, and he still made special advisor to Boris Johnson despite refusing to appear before Parliament a couple of months later. So it's quite clear, I think that's the things because there's no comeback for bending the rules until they break. There's no need for them to engage unless there is something rigorous with actual proper subpoena powers, with proper powers of democratic oversight to go and investigate these sort of things. And they are the kind of questions. In my mind as well, it's, you know,”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it probably wouldn't have been as damn, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as damaging his political career, but also at that stage, all the newspapers really ran for that story. It wasn't just one newspaper. They all went in for it together. And I think there's been like as almost immediate has become polarized too. There's been less of a tendency. The Guardian will really go for these sort of stories. People like Meade Open Democracy, we go for them. But often actually this kind of stuff has become, it's not been focused on as much. The Russia report, I think, was the first time in a while where you've seen things like Russian donors on the front page of the Times and things like that.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, it wouldn't be allowed. It would be a huge scandal. It would be the kind of thing that ended careers. And I think that's part of it too, is that I think in recent years our tolerance, we've become quite inured to the kind of scandals that I think in the past would have caused political careers. So in my book, I decided to go back to the story of Liam Fox and Atlantic Bridge, and we won't rehearse all of it here, but the long and short was Liam Fox spent 10 years building up this Atlanticist think tank between Britain and America. He got funding from all sorts of who knows where, set up a sister organization in America to pull in more money. When he became Secretary of State for Defense, which is a high-profile position, and he had his aide coming, his best friend and head of the same charity Atlantic Bridge going around the world Wisherman meeting foreign kind of political leaders. And that did cost Liam Fox's job then. But I actually think if that scandal had happened now, a...”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Jaw dropping. And I think it's also the kind of thing that really erodes trust in policy. There was an interesting survey out from Cambridge University earlier this year that found that disenchantment and dissatisfaction with democracy were highest in two places in the world, the United States and Great Britain. And I don't think it's a coincidence that they're the two countries in which money plays the biggest role in it. Like we've seen even this summer a series of scandals from the cronies and oligarchs that got given peerages and knighthoods and the dissolution honours list to the Robert Genrick's apparent bias in Richard Desmond's property case. You know, there's not, it's to the Russia report itself. There's no shortage of evidence of basically of cronyism and what I think could only be called corruption.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's why we don't realize how exceptional we are in some of this. I think we do kind of tend to think that everywhere is the same as us. And especially what we do, like when I started doing this sort of work, I used to think that Britain actually, it wasn't so bad in Britain because compared to America, it's far less money in Britain. Like in America, your £50,000 get you dinner with the Prime Minister. I don't think in America $50,000 would probably get you a minor senator from a Midwestern state. Never mind the leader of a country. But if you think about it the other way around, actually it makes Britain, I think, even more susceptible to finance because there's less money around, it's actually even more important to try and get it. That's why I think we tolerate and say the Conservatives tolerate the wife of a former Vatim Putin finance minister spending 80, 90, 100,000 pounds to pay tennis with Boris Johnson. Which is just, I think if we saw that in other countries, we'd find absolutely”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Donations. So, if you were to move away from the reliance of labour on the unions and the Tories on very, very small numbers of very rich people and actually forced parties to diversify their funding, they would, I think, also be forced to diversify kind of how they operate and who they represent. You would see, I think, a much broader, it's a chance to go back to far more broad church political parties. If you cast back to the 50s and 60s, when both Labour and the Tories had millions and millions and millions of members, Labour's had a big boot did have a big jump out of Jeremy Corbyn, became leader. That seems to be trailing off now. The Tories have a very small number of members, about the same number as the SNP. And the S&P are only in Scotland. So I think the problem is in some respects, the union funding of labour has encouraged labour to not move at times, to not diversify, to not democratize, because there is always going to be a vested interest in unions in...”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think there's something interesting. The union funding question, I think, is one that the Labour Party, because it hasn't ever diversified its funding, especially in recent years, it's become, I think it has become incredibly reliant on union funding. And you end up with a question of the democratic relationship between what union funding and the Labour Party too, because we've had seen ballots with very, very low numbers in Unite and things like that. And I think it's a reasonable question. I would like to see, to be honest, I think there's a reasonable case you made to just capping donations across the piece and saying, look, this is the most in a donation you can get from an individual. This is the most you can get from this type of organization. This is the most you can get from that type of organization. It's a controversial thing to suggest, but actually getting the state to run in to kind of come in behind and basically match fund or more so small.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, it is massive, massive, completely. And I think that's written large. And I felt the response was so depressing in terms of Boris Johnson stands up and says something about Islington Remainers, despite having lived in Islington himself until quite recently. And it's all some sort of city plot. And I think that aspect of just really not caring about how degraded democracy is. But in some respects, it is of a piece with what we saw in the last few months in the weeks and months leading up to the general election too. We did see a really dirty general election campaign. I think it's quite easy to forget. It was one of the things I wanted to do writing this book was to kind of try and put down in writing like just the various things that we saw, whether it was, you know, whether it was kind of rebranding the Conservative Party's Twitter account as a fact-checking account during a live debate or just pushing out endless outrider stuff on social media.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One of the things I found most remarkable about the Russia report was there's a section in the middle where basically the authors of the report say when we were writing this we found it really hard to figure out who was in charge of looking after our democracy. They described democracy as a hot potato and it was quite clear that there was a bunch of different organizations, none of whom would really take in responsibility for the kind of things you were talking about, Nick. This is the kind of constant theme I found in the work idea where organizations or regulators will pass the book from one to the other. There's a huge sense of like we won't like, you know, if I see another email between the extra commission and the information”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“How money can influence politics in a really direct way. Also, what you're seeing as well is a lot of money comes. I've spent a lot of time looking at electoral returns. A lot of money comes from companies, some of which seem to do almost no business and are very, very opaque and hard to find out how they operate. I did a story recently about Finchley, there's a famous building in which there's about 50,000 companies registered. And a number of companies registered there have given money to Conservative Party. Clearly they are not actively doing business in that address. It's very hard to see what these companies do because some of them have almost no turnover, yet they're still able to give money to political parties. But that's another way in which it's quite easy to kind of funnel money almost anonymously into political campaigns.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm very happy to be here. We can have a chat about that too. But in terms of the Conservative Party, it runs what are called tiers of membership for supporters. And this really happened during David Cameron. They tried to diversify the amount of money they get into get more money. They set up a thing called a leaders group for top Tory donors. So if you give to Conservative Party these £50,000 a year, you get to go once a quarter to meetings with the Prime Minister and leading cabinet ministers and you all kind of sit around. It's all off the record. It's all private. Nothing is divulged about what happens there. That's incredible access for almost no money. David Cameron did come under pressure about this because he was hosting these in Downing Street in his flash, which was a government residency. Belatially, he did start publishing these. But as I noticed when I was researching my book, The Conservative Party has actually stopped, both stopped publishing any details of previous meetings and taken all the records of the old ones off its website. So that's a really good example, I think, of...”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There's also just traditional ways actually of just even in just traditional political donations which do look like they're very transparent. So all political donations are registered. But there's still a problem with this. So for example, the Conservative Party, which is the party that really relies on private money, the Labour Party gets most of its money from the unions, which has its own issues.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You would see that as the opportunity to actually, you know, to really engage. You'd say, oh my word, I've got all these supporters. Because what's interesting as well, a lot of these campaigns have recorded no donations. And so the donation threshold is £7,500. So they're suggesting that they got some of these campaigns, if you'd spend £65,000 on ads, you got at least nine or ten people to give you almost the maximum donation, but just not enough to declare it, which to be honest, kind of beggars belief if you've not got where is the idea that large numbers of people are going to give money for what are front organizations, it doesn't tally, but there's no fear about doing that kind of thing because the chances of anything ever happening to you are so slim. And if you were, if the extra commission wants to investigate you, the maximum fine in Britain for breaking electoral law is £20,000. In America, you can go to prison for breaking electoral law. Here, it barely even qualifies as a slap on the wrist.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the same thing is happening with social media, Nick, I think, too. I think that's what's happened with social media. Like, I write in a book about the social media started appearing around the 2019 general election. You can push narratives much further on social media with huge plausible liability. You can just set up what are completely astro-turf organizations. I look at some of hundreds of thousands of pounds are spent on Facebook ads by groups from the left and from the right that disappeared as soon as the election ended, especially on the right. You're thinking, right, you've spent, there was one thing called capitalist worker. It spent about 65,000 pounds on Facebook ads, right? You'd imagine at the end of that, having won the election, you'd want to celebrate. You might want to harness those people who supported you. Considering that you're saying you're a campaign, but yet no, all of these groups, every single one disappeared the day after the general election, which suggests that they're not real.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I quote a figure in my book, and it's from the Institute of Economic Affairs' own report one year. And the IEA has a turnover most year of in and around £2 million. Where the money comes from, we really have no idea beyond the odd leak. It's come from oil money in the past, tobacco money, but we don't know much about it. But it estimated had £66 million worth of media in that one year. That's a huge return for your investment. Why would you pay a lobbyist who's going to have to register with the lobbying register, who might get your meeting with a minister? It'll be there in the paper. You'll have to look it up. You're much better, it's a better use of your money, I would imagine, to spend a couple of grand with someone like that who will argue your point on television, probably write it in a newspaper column, write a quick, thin report that you can go around, you know, if you're the gambling industry or wherever else. And they will say in their defense, they will say, look, we believe these things anyway. We're just saying what we believed. But it's always interesting that what they say, they believe tallies very.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A lot of these organizations like the Institution of Economic Affairs and many of these kind of Tuftan Street groups, they're also charities. So it's like a double whammy. You can give money to them anonymously and get a charitable deduction on it. And I think I completely agree. These outriders have done is see the opportunities in the media space as well. A lot of these think tanks, really what they are, is very savvy media operators. They run phone lines. If you pick up the phone and call them, they will appear on your show to save pretty much whatever you want. And what it's done is what it does is it allows corporate influence to take hold in politics in ways we can't see, but it's also pulled and shifted our politics and our discourse in ways that aren't representative. And I think I would agree if when I turned on the television in the run-up to the 2019 general election, this course has gone so far. It was so polarized for that very reason”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Politics, what you do is instead of funding politicians, instead of giving politicians money, what corporations and certain individuals who are interested in changing the political conversation do instead or as well as giving money to parties is to fund what looked like independent groups who come up with recommendations and ideas and policies that fit in with their agenda. This is long been a facet of American politics.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think I might take two examples just to be contrarian with it. One's a really simple one. So if you get a leaflet through your front door from a politician election time, it'll have probably their face looking, smiling, maybe holding a baby, saying something anodyne, and it'll have on the back, it'll have their details and it'll say who paid for it and who printed it and all the rest. That's called an imprint. All physical pieces of election paraphernalia have to have an imprint. If that same politician was to send you a target ad on Facebook saying the exact same thing with the exact same picture of themselves, they don't have to say anything. They don't even have to carry an imprint on it. That's not, we don't have to do that. They don't have to do that. So that's a very, very kind of basic example of, and that's not hard to fix. That could be easy fixed, but the decision has been taken not to fix it. But if you want to talk at something which I think is more insidious and actually more concerning, I write quite a lot in the book about the role of think tanks, of what are basically kind of corporate lobbying organizations in British politics. And this is very American model.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We have a political rules that are all set really around elections, around electoral events. But in a world of constant campaigning, which is kind of where we're at now in Britain, you just have to look at how our government acts in general, that we have rolling political campaigns. The role of money then becomes way, way harder to track. And the way money brings influence into politics becomes far, far harder to track.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In theory it is, and it was for a very long time. I would agree for quite a long time we had, we've always had the role of money in British politics as not new. Lloyd George basically sold honours to the highest bidder. That's been a part of our system for a long time. We've had cash for access, cash for questions. But in general, actually, I would agree that the rules around our politics recently worked reasonably well. When it comes to elections, there's really tight spending. But in some ways, actually, that's an indication of just how broken the system is. The spending rules are so tight. It's about On average about £12,000 to £15,000 a candidate's allowed to spend in each constituency that nobody keeps to them. Nobody believes that a candidate general election spends that little. So what we have actually is we all accept that those spending rules are going to be broken. They're broken all the time. No one, I think it's about 100 years since the last person was convicted of breaking spending rules during a general election, which is kind of, that is a huge part of the problem. So in a world of kind of constant campaigning,”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, basically, my book is all about the rise of what I'm calling dark money, but what I mean by that is kind of unaccountable money and influence and lobbying and even data and the internet in British politics. And I'm looking at basically my argument is that British politics is fundamentally changed in recent years because we're seeing increasing flows of just basically of dark money in different ways. Money in terms of political donations is becoming more of a feature of our politics. Lobbying is becoming increasingly opaque and hard to follow. And actually really, really fundamentally, the internet has also really changed our politics. And I'm arguing that all of our rules and our laws around how we do politics, how our democracy is protected are all really for an analog era. They're all out of date and we're living in a digital age. And our politicians don't seem to want to grapple with the complicated, difficult reality of just how really corrosion.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My name is Peter Gagan, and I'm investigations editor of Open Democracy, and I'm the author of Democracy for Sale, Dark Money and Dirty Politics, which is out with HedaZeus.”
2020-08-25 · Intelligence Squared · Dark Money and Dirty Politics, with Peter Geoghegan and Nick Cohen · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source