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Rahul Moodgal

lines on the record: 91
first: 2024-09-26
most recent: 2024-09-26
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Because in those days, you could do that. I think today you can do it, but you have to be the right manager who thinks about things at the right time and is capital disciplined and thoughtful.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is really throwing in. I'll give you a great example. I'm going to Asia. Chris calls me. I land in Hong Kong, calls me on a Thursday night and says, I need 800 million by Monday. Okay, fine. So I go to sleep. I wake up Friday morning. I sit on the phone and raise 800 million bucks. Call him sat in suddenly 800 million is coming on Monday because he's going to make a big investment in Visa. So there's situations like that that come up and you're like, wow, this is not just about dealing with the traffic. It's actually going out and saying, right, actually we need to really, really lay down here who's going to give us money, how we're going to structure that money. Is it going to be three year or five year? And who do we want to take it from? Because you're always conscious then of how much money people already have with you. Do you grow that? Or do you take new investors in? There's lots of things to think about. So had a few occasions where I had to do that and it was great.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Huge though being with firms that people want to invest with obviously is a great thing and it becomes about being a traffic cop and managing that traffic, right? Directing it the right way, telling it when to come in and when not to come in, which road to take and all the rest of it. There's other times where you have to go out and raise. And sometimes you won't believe me, but there's situations that come up and you're like,”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Start with TCI, and then we can talk about some of the affiliates. Clients wanted to invest. And you've talked a lot about the importance of understanding your clients, understanding their needs. But to do that as someone in the business development role, you need their time. And so, how much of your ability to do that was predicated on being around funds, TT and then TCI, that people wanted to invest in?”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We had five different managers on the platform. So at any one time, one of them was closed, another one wasn't. One was having a good time. One wasn't. So it was just always things to do. It just never, never stopped.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Going, hey, you're giving us money, and that was it. I wish it was, but it wasn't like that. It was certainly easier than it is today, but also had to manage Chris, take him to meet clients. And there were times where we had to travel together, do things. Then we used to have this huge investor day in New York every year with 500 people come. That took months of planning, months and months and months to coordinate all these meetings and stuff. So it was a lot of stuff and a lot of queries back and forth, back and forth. It was streamlined the reporting, setting up a CRM system. Then as the business grew, became part of a management committee, which managed day-to-day issues at the organization.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Second thing is actually processing and facilitating the meetings with Chris and the clients was a big thing, as well as all the other managers on the platform. Third thing is investors need to go through due diligence process. Even though in those days we were less willing to help as we are today about giving investors what they needed. But people also spent a lot of time trying to understand what is behind these numbers, how are these numbers being generated. I think the big question actually, the thing we had the biggest pushback on is Chris had a foundation and a lot of people said, hey, I'm a foundation, I'm endowment. I don't really want to give money to a manager who's funding another foundation or endowment. Or Chris's activist and all these names and its headline risk for us help me understand how I get around that. So there were a lot of things to sort of think about there. It wasn't as easy. It was a lot of work. And I can tell you it was a lot of work because I worked all the time. So it wasn't just Chris me picking up things.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There is actually a process there of getting people on board. So there's a lot of admin to do. First and foremost, you have to go back and understand who your investors are, how they think. Everything was there, but it had grown so quickly. For example, there was no link between the underlying registered shareholders and the clients. So we had client A, but they had XYZ holding ink. So I had to spend a lot of time matching all those out to know who had how much money with us.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Just sat there. Chris went through the story, talked about the returns, did everything, and at the end pushed the presentation but to me and said it's all yours now. I literally broke a swear because at that time that platform had about six billion dollars on it and I didn't know what was going to happen after that. What happened after that was like nothing I've ever experienced in my life. I felt like I was king of the world because everyone in the world was calling us We just couldn't even process the amount of inquiries we were getting and we built five years on we built a platform of $30 billion with five managers on and it was incredible. I traveled all over the world. We had 1,200 investors at our peak, all the good, the bad, the famous, the infamous endowments foundations corporations family offices. It was incredible. It was the dream. It really was the dream.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was Literally the best feeling ever, but also the most scary. So imagine in front of you, you've got a mountain and you're really excited that you can see the top of it and you can go to it, but the thought of you actually climbing and the actual physical work involved in carrying your backpack and the oxygen and all the rest of it, it's invigorating, but it's also excruciating at the same time. So Chris had launched. We had another manager on the platform and they were just about to launch another one and then go from there. So I literally, my first day, we go to an investment committee meeting for one of the biggest endowments that was invested with us. Chris said, Right, we're going to this meeting, come in. And this endowment, I knew them from TT and I went in to see her and said, great, we're going to work in with you again.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Basically, said you will lead the business development investor relations for a prominent hedge fund that's going to build out a platform. They want someone who's going to take charge on looking after clients, building out the business, developing the strategy, the branding, look after all the client reporting, and your responsibilities include attending conferences, looking after the investors, building an investor day, all that sort of stuff. And I was like, this is great because these guys are clearly at the cusp of sort of becoming huge and they wanted someone who could sort of grow with them. So I went for an interview. I met the COO and we laughed for an hour and then the principal came in and we sat there for two hours and at the end he said give me twenty references. I can call and I played hardborn and said, you give me some hour of Talu if I know them. We came up with twenty and then he called me the next day and said, I really want you to come in and speak to us some more. And yeah, so since 2005, basically been now at the helm of...”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Everything that I hated, it's nepotistic, it's bureaucratic, it's not focused on the client, it's focused on the organization, it's just not what I'm about. And the role wasn't what I was told it was either. Neither was a comp. So I was just like, I'm done. And in the meantime, I get a call from a headhunter who'd called me actually a year before I'd taken this job and said, there's a rollout there these guys want to meet you. And I'm like, well, who is it? To this day, he's a dear friend. To this day, I still respect him for it. He wouldn't tell me who it was for. I said, okay. And then he said, well, I'll send you a job description. I look at it. I said, it's my dream job.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In eighteen months, we're just winning business from everyone. The performance is insane. We have clothes in the interim at $3 billion, but as soon as we were open, the queue's waiting and it's just insane. Anyone we want, we're getting money from them. And then this firm decides to become everything to everyone. And we launch an ASEAN fund, an event driven fund. Everything you can think of, we do that. But as you do that, the organization grows, it becomes more institutionalized, it becomes more processes, more bureaucracy, and a glass ceiling comes over. And I'm like, okay, I can stay here forever and enjoy it. And it's great, but I'm not going to learn. And I want to learn. And I take a sidestep and go and join a private Swiss bank. It's the worst decision of my career.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sarah and TT is under two billion dollars of AOM and the space of eighteen months it goes to eight and a half billion dollars.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They're sitting in this world where all these people, they've burnt all these relationships, they can't call those people again. Life, it's all relationships, all of this thing. It's not about money. It's about relationships. And everyone forgets that”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that's fair. But the fact is relationships transcend organizations. So if you have a relationship with an investor, today I work with investors since 1998. They've worked through six, seven, eight, nine different firms. But the fact is they always know what's going on. And any manager I work with knows that I'm always going to be honest. And if they can't handle it, then I'm not going to work with them. So that's something straight up at the beginning I will say to people is like I'll tell people this is great and it's a good idea for you to look at. But also if you do something wrong, I'm always going to tell people. And they're a bit shocked, but I'm like, that's why if I pick up the phone to these people, they listen and they trust me. To me, that's what matters more than anything. Because managers come and go, but those endowments, foundations, families, they're around forever. So it's a different mindset. So people don't think about that. And I think too many people sit there saying, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. And all of a sudden, they realize actually when that manager closes down or they leave, whatever.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When I call them, and that's what it's about, and everyone forgets that everyone's so focused on execution, this business is about duration, right? And it's not about, oh, I've got money from them now, I'll move on. It's not about that. It's about can you call them? Can you talk to them about other managers? Can you talk to them about opportunities? And those things, if you do the wrong thing, you're just never going to get that.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, unfortunately, I'm not very good at dealing with that. And what's the age-old definition of integrity is doing the right thing when no one else is looking. And to that end, I will always do the right thing. And I've been in situations where I've had to do it because it's the right thing to do and I've been blasted by the PM. But I've said to them, look, I'm sitting around the table looking at people I've known for 10, 15, 20 years. I'm not going to lie. I'm just going to tell them the truth. And they may not like it. You may not like it, but.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've learned post crisis, just deal with it, late on the table tell someone what's wrong and they'll be much more respectful of you as an organisation and as a group of people if you're upfront with them. So if something goes wrong on the investment side, just tell them. Explain what's happened, why it's happened and what you're going to learn from it. If someone's leaving, just tell them because a room mill is faster than you can ever be. And the key thing is to take control of the situation. And if you take control of it at the beginning, then you're going to be able to deal with it. And you'll take whatever bad news comes your way. But if you leave it and it starts to fester, having been in that situation a couple of times, everyone's calling you, going, I've heard this, I've heard that, and you've lost control. And there's no way you can ever get control. You lose respect. You lose the message that you're trying to portray. And everyone interprets it differently. And they're all speaking to each other before you've got to everyone. So it's so important.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And what happens with the softer issues and transparency? So through the life of any manager you're working with, there are good times and bad times. There's internal friction that resolves itself. When you're in a moment where, boy, there's some information that's not great. Be it's temporary, might be permanent. How much do you share with a client if you're trying to be transparent?”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Have they got in their portfolio? So I had no one investor said, We had this manager amazing returns, and we asked them if they used options. They said they never used options. But actually over time became apparent they were using options. So they just lied about it. So people want to know kind of how much you have been swapped, how much you're in physical, attribution, country sector stock, all that sort of exposure. It's simple stuff, but I don't understand why people are so cagey about selling it out.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Simple things you'll laugh. People don't want to tell you what AUM they have under management. Why Smart investors triangulate their AUM. So they say, Right, you tell us your AUM, we'll speak to your administrator, we'll speak to prime brokers. And I've seen it time and time again where investors have come to me and said, the guy said he's managing X, but he's managing X minus this. It's a lot smaller. So people just lie”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I now include much more than I would have ever included because I know these guys will ask me for this and this and this and this and you just keep adding it. So it reduces their need to keep coming back to you. Can I have this come over? You just standardize it and everyone gets that information and they pick out what they want. You just learn, you learn over time.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Means it's not just a relationship about you investing in this fund or with this manager, it's understanding that what happens with that manager and that relationship has an impact on his responsibility for an endowment. So it can be not just that investment, but how it correlates to other investments, what's the liquidity profile of that in terms of what he can pay out to other people, the access he has to the manager and the underlying holdings, all that sort of stuff. So it was a lot of things there which I didn't really understand until he really explained it to me. And I was like, do you know what? I really get it now. So it made me sit in his mind and say, how can I help him do his job? And before that, it wasn't about that. It was like, right, what do I need to do to do my job? But it's not about that. It's about actually understanding what are the things that investors need to help them do their job. And if you understand that, then you can do your job better. And you become more proactive. So over the years, when I do a report,”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's the age old question you put 10 economists on an island, ask them a question, you get 11 different answers. And that's really... What it is because everyone has their own personal needs and requirements as well as institutional pressures. So there's really no right or wrong answer. But I think you reach a standard of what should be done. And I think over these 20 years, I've learned over time that transparency is key. It really is. It's good for your relationship, but also when you have tough times, people understand what's going on because you're transparent and they can say, well, I understand why this stock's not working or why this concentration is working or not working. And being straight up about it is great. But I think the key to it all, and the person who taught me this, really is Seth Alexander, who said, you have to understand my responsibility as a fiduciary. And he's the one who really taught me that out of everyone that I've worked with over the years.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, when you start breaking down that process, take one client in mind, talk about prospects separately, but how do you figure out what the right cadence of communication is with one particular client?”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Almost about balancing what they were doing versus what I was doing, so they would go out, they'll say, right, these guys coming back, they're coming in, they want this, they want that. So fine, we'll get that done, but let's talk to them while we're doing it. So that kind of slows the process rather than just being so reactive that people feel like, okay, we want to do this, but they're coming back too quickly. We need some space to think about it because when people are thinking about investing, they need to think about what they're doing, how it correlates to the rest of the portfolio. Is this really what we think it is? And really look at the quality of the returns. It's a much bigger thing than that. Do we like these people? Can we work with them? Are they going to be transparent? Are they going to let us come to their offices? Are they going to come and see us? So it's a bigger thing than just numbers, right?”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They let me over time take care of things because the clients gave good feedback and I was just patient and did things slowly and properly. I think they were always in a rush and that's something that I learned over time that actually do things slowly. Don't be in a rush. Because when you're in a rush, you can say the wrong things. Things can come out the wrong way. You can put pressure on people where you shouldn't be putting pressure on people.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was at TT for seven years. I never was left on my own to go and raise money. I did everything apart from the final pitch. So the PMs did the final pitch, but I did all the client take on, all the interaction with them in terms of what they wanted, sat to them, spoke to them, got to know them, took them out for drinks, the rest of it. But I wasn't let loose until 2005, which we'll talk about, which someone gave me a chance. And so it's a huge, huge disparity between their thinking and my thinking because I'm much more of a relationship person. So it's kind of like, well, I have to look after these people. So I want to know who they are, how they think, what do they want. Whereas the other guys are like, well, how do we get this money in that we manage? So it's very, very different. I would say almost they're the investment guys, but they were the marketing guys. And I worked in the marketing team, but I was much more a relationship guy. So it's a very different approach.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And what do you find when you went out? A lot of times there's a segregation in this business between the investment principles that the clients want to interact with and then the business development team where the manager says, no, no, no, you just go raise me money without a plan or an agenda.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Literally three months. I started October 5th, 1998, and by the end of December, I was on my own. Let me go through it. Hard, but it was amazing, and I think that's how you learn when you're thrown in, you just have to get on and do it. So there's a whole new world. I was fascinated. I was learning so much about the world, the markets, and all these concepts, which I had no idea about. It's a completely different world to what I was used to.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“and then started reading, reading, reading, Warren Buffett Way, Common Stock's Uncommon Profits, all that sort of stuff. So just red, red, red, red, red, and then started reading everything that was going on in the market because 1998, 1999 was a fascinating time with LTCM going on, the crisis coming for Russia, then the tech bubble, and all this stuff was happening as we were sort of sitting there. And then the Berlin Wall collapses. the world is like this crazy place but at the same time i have to understand in terms of the investment process of this firm that politics was connected to economics so really how it made them choose which stocks to put in a portfolio and all that sort of stuff so literally i just sat there like a sponge absorbing everything and a lot of it was regurgitating even before i understood what i was talking about”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I am just sitting there surrounded by all these really smart people who know what an equity is, who know what a benchmark is, who know what alpha is and beta is, I have no clue. So I just sat there and literally like a sponge, I sat and absorbed it all and listened to what they were saying.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That firm was TT International, and at that time they were the number one international EFA manager in the world. So we had biggest endowments and foundations, the best corporations in the US. So straight away, I was thrown in to meet all these guys day one. I was like, wow, I'm speaking to all these amazing people who I've heard of, but all of a sudden I'm looking after them.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“British government project was coming to an end. I wanted to be back in London, and academia is a great world, but it's full of a lot of stifling hurdles, a lot of slow processes to get anything done. And I just kind of, I hope I'm more dynamic than that. And I wanted to just come back to London and feel that energy. So I applied to loads and loads of jobs. And they were financed, they were diplomacy, there were lots of different things. Nothing was kind of concrete of what I was going to do. And then this job came out with a small booty asset manager. I said, well, your background in teaching is kind of what we're looking for for someone who can look after our clients. We haven't got anyone who looks after our clients. So I said, okay, fine. Can you write our newsletter for us? Can you sort of make sure they looked after? So those skills from teaching really came across. The writing part, the patients part, making sure people understand what you're doing. So explaining things.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I learnt to be patient. I learned that there's people who are smarter than you. And I learned to listen. I think those are the three things. And I think actually those are the things I took with me in my post-academic career.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“International Political Economy to Undergrads, which was great, you realise how smart you're not when they ask you really good questions, and I learned as much from them as I hope I helped them learn.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, in the interim, I get pulled onto a British government project, which is connected to what I'm researching. And also my old university invites me back to go and teach there. So I spend four years commuting between three cities, living in the one in the middle, which is Birmingham, studying in London and then teaching at Kiel, which is sort of in the Midlands, sort of near Manchester. So for four years I was just commuting between all three.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I have an undergrad in international relations, a master's in economics and politics of development and a PhD in political economy from LSE.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I did a PhD on how regions with resources use those resources to gain political and economic leverage over central governments. My case study was the Russian Far East, which sits between Siberia and the Pacific Ocean. So Russia and Japan, obviously, and then the top guys in the world are in the US. I did a stint at Harvard, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, University of Washington, Seattle, and University of Hawaii.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My guest on today's show is Master Fundraiser Rahul Mudgal. Raul spent 20 years as a fundraiser across long-only strategies, hedge funds, fund of funds, customized solutions, startups, and nonprofits. Collectively, he's raised and helped raise $60 billion for firms since 2005. Rolls started his career in the industry at Powerhouse TT International and later joined the Children's Investment Fund, or TCI, where he led the marketing effort that raised $20 billion in just three and a half years. Within TCI's affiliate model, Roll also was responsible for the largest India fundraising history and the largest sector fund launch in history. Our conversation covers capital raising lessons learned from teaching, the value of transparency, the gold rush before 2008, the lean times afterwards.”
2024-09-26 · Capital Allocators · [REPLAY] Rahul Moodgal - Master Fund Raiser (EP.87) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source