YouSaid · the spoken record

Risto Miikkulainen

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113
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2021-04-19
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2021-04-19
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1
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podcast

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  1. “Well, I think you're referring to the emotion of fear, something, because we are cognitively, we know that we have limited lifespan, and most of us cope with it by just, hey, that's what the world is like and I make the most of it. But sometimes you can have a fear that's not healthy, that paralyzes you, that you can't do anything. And somewhere in between there, not caring at all and getting paralyzed because of fear, is a normal response, which is a little bit more than just logic and it's emotion. So now the question is, what good are emotions? I mean, they are quite complex and there are multiple dimensions of emotions. And they probably do serve a survival function, height and focus, for instance. And fear of death might be a really good emotion when you are in danger, that you recognize it.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “Yeah. So, you know, you have to be Mozart or something to actually reach that level that nobody would have developed that. But other people might have solved this equation if you didn't do it. But also within limited scope, I mean, during your lifetime or next year, you could contribute something that unique that other people did not see. And then that could change the way things move forward for a while. So I don't think we have to be Mozarts to be called intelligence, but we have this local effect that is changing. If you weren't there, that would not have happened. And it's a positive effect, of course. It wanted to be a positive effect.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “But you can also think of it what if like the wonderful life? What if you're not here? Well, somebody else do this. Is it something that... You actually contributed because you had something unique to compute. That's a pretty high bar, though.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “Think that makes sense. A lot of sense. I mean, animals probably don't think of death the same way, but humans know that your time is limited and you want to make it count. And you can make it count in many different ways. But I think that has a lot to do with creativity and the need for humans to do something beyond just surviving. Now, going from that simple definition to something that's the next level, I think that that could be the second decision, a second level of definition. intelligence means something that you do something that stays behind you. That's more than your existence. Something you create something that is used for others, is useful in the future, not just for yourself. And I think that's a nice definition of intelligence in a next level. And it's also nice because it doesn't require that they are humans or biological. They could be artificial agents that are intelligence.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “And that is a way of defining it. And that means that it's some kind of an object or a program that has limited sensory and effective capabilities interacting with the world. And then also a mechanism for making decisions. So with limited abilities like that, can it survive? Survival is the simplest goal, but you could also give it other goals, can it multiply? Can it solve problems that you give it? And that is quite a bit less than human intelligence. Animals would be intelligent, of course, with that definition. And you might have even some other forms of life. So intelligence in that sense is a survival skill given resources that you have and using your resources. So that you will stay around.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “We don't quite know the conditions for that and how do you even get started and whether we can get this kind of runaway evolution happening.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “For evolution to discover that took a long time for us to recreate it probably won't take that long. And the next steps from there, I think also with some hand holding, I think we can make that happen. But with evolution, what was really fascinating was eventually the runaway evolution of the brain that created humans and created, well, also other higher animals, that that was something that happened really fast. And that's a big question. Is that something replicable? It's that something that can happen. And if it happens, does it go in the same direction? That is a big question to ask even in computational terms. I think that it's a relatively possible come up, create an experiment where we look at the primordial soup and the first couple of steps of multicellular organisms even, but to get something as complex as the”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “There are people who are working on exactly that problem from primordial soup. How do you actually get self-replicating? Molecules, and they are very close. With a little bit of help, you can make that happen. Of course, we know what we want so they can set up the conditions and try out conditions that are conducive to that.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “Yeah, and you know, you can certainly say that sharks are really smart because they've been around so long and they haven't destroyed their environment, which humans are about to do, which is not a very smart thing. But we'll get over it, I believe. And we can get over it by doing some construction that actually is benign and maybe even enhances the. Resilience of nature.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “Yeah, well, I think the first measurement would be to detect how much of an effect you can have in your environment. So if you look around, We have cities, and that is constructed environments, and that's where a lot of people live, most people live. So that would be a good sign of intelligence that you don't just live in an environment, but you construct it to your liking. And that's something pretty unique. I mean, there are certainly birds build nests, but they don't build quite cities. Termites build mounds and hives and things like that. But the complexity of the human construction cities, I think, would stand out even to an external observer.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “Well, you are running the simulation, so you also put in visualization and measurement techniques there. So if you are looking for certain things like communication, you'll have detectors to find out whether that's happening. Even if it's a large simulation. And I think that that's what we would do. We know roughly what we want intelligent agents that communicate, cooperate, manipulate. And we would build detections and visualizations of those processes. Yeah, and there's a lot of, you'd have to run it many times and we have plenty of time to figure out how we detect the interesting things. But also, I think we do have to run it many times because we don't quite know what shape those will take. And our detectors may not be perfect for them to begin with.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “Those kinds of solutions, I believe, emerge over and over again, they may look a little different, but they get the job done. The really interesting question is, would we have primates? Would we have humans or something that resembles humans? And would that be an apex of evolution after a while? We don't know where we're going from here, but we certainly see a lot of tool use and building our constructing our environment. So I think that we will get that. We get some evolution producing some agents that can do that maniplet environment and build.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “That's actually not such a bad question for computer scientists because we are building simulations of these things and we are simulating evolution. And that's a difficult question to answer in biology, but we can build a computational model and run it million times and actually answer that question. How much variation do we see when we simulate it? That's a little bit beyond what we can do today. But I think that we will see some regularities. And it took evolution also a really long time to get started. And then things accelerated really fast towards the end. But there are things that need to be discovered and they probably will be over and over again, like manipulation of objects, opposable thumbs, and also some way to communicate.”

    2021-04-19 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #177 – Risto Miikkulainen: Neuroevolution and Evolutionary Computation · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source